I’ve stumbled across videos on YouTube that show snake owners feeding them a live rate or rabbit or whatever. Some people in the comments say well that’s just nature, others say it’s animal abuse. What do you think?
On reddit I saw a snake owner saying what they normally do is kill the prey beforehand with a CO2 chamber and freeze it, and that there’s no reason to feed live. Like the snakes don’t need it. If that’s true I guess it’s needless suffering then. Weird that these videos are so available on YouTube then.
On reddit I saw a snake owner saying what they normally do is kill the prey beforehand with a CO2 chamber
That’s a horrible way to die. When you feel like suffocating it’s not lack of oxygen but excess carbon dioxide. Breathing in pure CO2 causes instant panic attack on even people with a brain damage making them unable to feel fear. Nitrogen is the gas you want to use - CO2 is among the worst possible choices. Even drowning them would probably be more humane.
In humans, it’s blood co2 levels that moderate our breathing. We don’t feel the lack of oxygen we feel the buildup of co2. A hammer would be more humane if rodents use the same chemo receptors.
So you’re saying it’s like the lethal injection? Not actually a peaceful way to die but just looks so to outsiders?
In the case of CO2 asphyxiation, it doesn’t even appear peaceful to an outside observer. There are videos online showing what it actually looks like, and it’s not pretty.
I used to keep a lot of spiders and they will only eat live prey, so I’d say no. However if pre-killing was an option, I’d use it.
Also: Don’t use mammals as spider food. It’s a total mess and not very nice to clean up. I tried it once but stuck to crickets after that.
Are there spiders that eat mammals??
The larger tarantulas can eat small rodents or birds.
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they normally do is kill the prey beforehand with a CO2 chamber and freeze it
…That’s really not any better. Using CO2 to suffocate an animal is every bit as cruel as allowing a snake to constrict it’s prey.
I think with animal welfare, it matters less how the animal dies, and more the quality of life before death. Of course, death by torture or something would be bizarre and inexcusable. Some animals, even specific individual animals, need live prey if they are to be kept in captivity. It’d be more productive to advocate for better living conditions than “comfortable” deaths.
If you’d seen how my cat died, you’d change your mind about that first sentence.
It’s not nature, since there is a snake owner feeding the snake with live animals. This is not how it naturally happens. I’m not against pets, even pet snakes, but this is just arguing in bad faith.
Yeah it’s animal abuse. In the wild the snake hunts and the prey has a chance to escape. The prey animal has 0 (or very close to 0) chance of escape in a tank with a reptile. It’s just cruel and unnecessary.
I’d draw the line for anything not an insect personally. Insects I’m pretty sure don’t have enough brain to be terrorised.
Insects avoid pain which would imply some level of sentience. Many live in hive environments and have methods of communication.
Do fish feel?
Yes.
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Your personal lines are weird.
If you have a snake that you can feed dead to, then do so. Many snakes, however, will not eat dead prey. Luckily, I have a rescued ball python that doesn’t mind a bit. We buy 2 dozen frozen rats at a time. It lasts almost a year, and our particular snake is fine with it. Others I have known, are NOT.
The idea that you would take a living creature and treat it like a possession is disgusting and inhumane
Pet ownership should be completely banned, I realized that’s an unpopular decision and people love dogs - that’s fine but I still hold this opinion
Most of the abuse that animals suffer is a result of the systems that funnel pets to owners, and in any way participating in that makes one guilty of said abuse
The amount of times I have talked with vegans who own and advocate for pet ownership…
People have completely arbitrary values, and they are subject to change on a whim if the person just wants something
People don’t seem to get that values aren’t something to continually shift situationally
I will preface this by saying that I feed my snake frozen-thawed
That said, I’ve killed enough pest mice in my lifetime that I no longer feel sympathy for them. They’re cute for sure, but they’re not so cute when they break your oven/range by building a nest in it and shitting everywhere, or by eating all of your food and costing you hundreds of dollars. The only traps that work for city mice are glue traps, and I usually finish them off with a crossbow so they don’t suffer for long.
Regardless I’m personally against live feeding. A live animal can cause harm to a snake. It will also tend to shit and pee everywhere because it’s terrified, rightfully so. I’ve also seen enough mice die from poison traps that I would never EVER give my snake a wild mouse
I’d say if you really really cared about animals, you wouldnt keep one in the first place. Ofc it’s far less cruel to keep an animal in a vivarium or a house and treat it well, than to give it as a prey to another animal. But you would not have the dilemna if it was free in the first place.
I also don’t think the “it’s natural” argument is logically speaking a correct counter argument for the cruelty problem. Death, disease and suffering are natural, but it can still be cruel for us to let them happen. Ofc there is a whole gradient of “cruelty” here, from not intervening to prevent suffering on an animal to inflicting it on purpose for no reason. But I think what matters is not that it’s natural, it’s that is a choice of us to do or not to do.
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As opposed to any other day?
I worked as an assistant at a zoo when I was younger, and we gave the snakes dead mice, but heated up. If given cold or room temperature, the snakes wouldn’t eat them
It depends on which animal involved is native to which environment or part of the world. Imagine being a squirrel in Upstate New York and being terrified because Murphy’s Law now demands that you be worried about these fierce creatures the hoomans call komodo dragons.
