It never left. Using it still makes you look like an asshole.
All these “free speech absolutists” still don’t realize that free speech does not mean immunity from consequences of that speech from your fellow citizens. It’s almost like they just haven’t paid attention for their entire lives.
I mean, their position falls apart when you ask them what they think about the college students being oppressed for protesting.
They do not care about free speech. They care about experiencing social consequences when using hate speech.
Yes. And it’s just hypocrisy all the way down: otherwise, as you say, we wouldn’t hear anything negative about the left exercising right to protest.
On top of r/conservative is a post about “the algorithm” flooding someone’s feed with news about US protests. Of course, the response wasn’t “hey great! Look at all those people exercising their right to free speech!”. Instead, it’s just bitching and claims of fake news (and no understanding that there really may be significant protests right now – just automatically, they must be false). There is no logic for people who can no longer discern facts from opinions.
You are a asshole for calling someone retarded. It is so incredibly offensive that you have to be a special kind of jerk to say it.
What about the word is offensive?
Is it just as offensive as calling someone stupid, moronic, dumb, or an idiot?
Is it that insulting someone’s intelligence is inherently offensive? Or is it just that it’s one of the most recent to become medically obsolete?
It is much worse as it implies that they are disabled due to there extremely low intelligence. The word by itself isn’t bad but you shouldn’t call someone retarded.
I believe it comes from the metal retardation diagnosis from 70 years ago or so.
Not trying to be an ass here, just genuinely curious, the words “idiot” or “moron” or “imbecile” which were also in the same diagnostic tools as “retarded” so what makes them different?
I have seen earnest attempts at starting movements to abolish these words as well, (and usually at that point a lot of people start tuning the conversation out,) so I’m wondering where people’s feelings are on the broader topic or if it’s the use of the singular word and how it’s used that bothers people the most.
I think, though I could be wrong, that when many of us were growing up, the words “idiot” and “moron” had already shifted meaning. So we learned them without the connotation of mental capacity and disabled people. But “retarded” still meant both things.
But calling someone an idiot is explicitly insulting their intelligence just the same.
i can only speak for my experience. growing up autistic, i was targeted due to my different ways of thinking and acting for bullying, using the r-word to belittle and demean me, far too many times, for hearing it used to mean ‘bad’ to feel like anything but an attack on me or those like me. when someone uses the r-word casually, it hurts, and a fully automatic system, borne of hard experience, files that person away as a probable threat. i don’t understand why people want to use the word so badly, knowing it hurts people, and knowing it’s not necessary or even all that useful of a word.
I do not care about the word or what language people use broadly, as long as they’re using their “offensive words” to punch up.
If you’re punching up, if you’re attacking power, I do NOT care and genuinely wish people would pull the gloves off more. But Joe Rogan IS power, he is so high up that anywhere he punches is down. People with great power who use language recklessly need to be knocked down for abusing the power behind their language.
So calling Trump a regard is acceptable then?
That’s not a gotcha - tbh the “left”, to the extent there is such a thing in the US, would be more likable if it used the language of the actually existing working class to communicate its criticisms of capital. Tone policing is not an effective way to organize the proletariat or to spread class consciousness
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Glad someone went there.
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The 90s: I used to use it back in the day, until one time I volunteered for a handicapped kids event, and saw how this one kid with Downs got really upset at someone calling him “the ‘R’ word” (I had never heard it put that way, or even considered it as truly harmful).
Anyway, I wiped it from my vocabulary after that. I still consider it a slur, unlike idiot, which is more generic, and not used as a specific slur against intellectually disabled folks.
Yeah, clearly many people in this thread have never spent any time around people with disabilities, it doesn’t take long to feel an innate disgust for the word and anyone who uses it, short of technical/scientific usages.
You’ve all been able to say it this whole time, just a lot of people agreed it makes you a shithead. That hasn’t changed, and it’s familiar territory for Rogan, so this is no surprise.
Good on you for making that change, and having empathy for others.
Idiot has the same entomology as retard though, does it not? As does stupid? They all start as medical diagnoses and then assholes turn them to slurs and then the medical field refines and renames and things start to repeat.
We had special education class, Special Ed, for kids struggling in certain ways, so if course the shitty kids would call kids “sp-ed” because of course they would.
I’m not sure when the line gets crossed or if we should have gone back or what, but retard, to me, has a very particular connotation that is useful for describing certain people’s actions. I don’t do it any more because I’d rather live in a peaceful society that fosters respect, but it is one of those things I “don’t get”
(I think the conversation here is more about etymology than entomology)
“Sped” is often how teachers refer to special education now too. I was a “sped teacher” for a bit. Referring to a child as “sped” would be gross and dehumanizing, but I think referring to a “sped class” isn’t considered pejorative.
It’s weird how worked up people get about “political correctness.” If you call someone ‘r-tarded’ you’re doing it to upset them, and you are also communicating that the status of having an intellectual disability is so degrading to be considered an insult. I’ve worked with lots of intellectually disabled adults and children - I don’t know that I would want to compare those people I loved and cared for to someone that I would want to insult.
fwiw Sped was used as an insult when I was in school a couple decades ago
i mean it is ONLY used to mock a very specific group of people and, historically, it was used to incarcerate and experiment on them.
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But language changes and evolves, and words get imbued with additional meanings over time through a bunch of complicated factors and contexts.
Just because ‘idiot’ and ‘retard’ were used similarly once, doesn’t mean they’re the same now
We don’t need to fully understand the process in which the word has changed to know that lots of people find it particularly insulting, degrading and oppressive, and to decide to stop using it because of this
Coincidentally, “Rogan” is also an r-word that’s synonymous with moron, imbecile, or idiot.
that’s not how i use it, but if that’s how you use it, than yeah sure. But i don’t.
It is how you use it, even if you don’t mean to.
If you use ‘gay’ as an insult, that doesn’t become OK if you only say it to straight people. It’s still some massive drive by homophobia.
The reason to stop using this as an insult isn’t to protect the people you’re insulting, it’s to protect a third group which has a dark history with the word
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I use it in reference to all Republicans.
the difference between autistic and retarded is that autistic people can actually fight back and say that the use of autistic hurts people
Unfortunately retarded people can’t really do that, have to be the face and name called out at anything an individual thinks of as dumb
What? No.
Clearly you do not know anything at all about those two groups or the myriad of different functional levels the can come with those diagnoses.
Here is a thought experiment, do I need to know someone or something to use their condition as an insult?
Nah you dont.
The way you are using your narrow minded view of autism and the mentally handicapped is not only highly offensive, its also wrong. I have personally worked with and cared for people on the autism spectrum from the level of “nonverbal infant level” all the way to certified savant. Its a spectrum for a reason. I have also cared for people, for literal years, who are diagnosed retarded that are more capable and more functional than the “normal” people i see at walmart. And also hold steady jobs better than their non deficent coworkers.
Heres a thought experiment for you. If the things you say are so blatantly wrong that you get downvoted, called out, and ignored for your offensive views, but still want to double down, are you yourself retarded?
I dont know you. And i dont know your mental acuity. But i am using that word as an insult. That should answer your question i think.
You may introduce yourself as someone knowledgeable, I don’t give a shit, the word is frequently used has gotten bad connotations and influences how others think
I’m sure you’re a good person but you are trying to keep the use of a word up with no reason, using your experience simply to back up that these people are more than what their words claim to be, then using the public’s view of me against me without a proper answer
I don’t see these people as ill in the head, others may, but I don’t, and words DO hurt and they should stop being used
Stop being a dick over a word that gives bad rep to people you personally interacted with and no benefits from its use.
I am not going to change my mind, saying ‘retard’ and ‘austistic’ as an insult is bad and has its more decent alternatives, English doesn’t need to use very personal conditions as insults to begin with. why on earth are you DEFENDING ITS USE?
Bud im not saying that these words are not bad. I never said they weren’t. They are. Im saying that these words have power. Im hoping you get that now, especially now that ive hit a nerve enough, that maybe you can learn off of what you said in your initial comment.
Im asserting that your broad generalizations are equally bad. The spectrum of autism, retardation, and mental handicaps as a whole are so much bigger and more diverse than the assumptions you made. Thats my message. Thats the point im trying to speak. I hope you can eventually see that.
Yeah, it’s definitely not cool to use this word against mentally difficient people. It’s exactly the same as calling them “morons” or “idiots”.
Mentally disabled people are often such kind souls. They don’t need that.
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And i mean, you can make that argument if you want, but then like, where do we stop? Is telling people to kill themselves morally unacceptable
Yes. 🤦 Jfc, “asking me not to use a slur against disabled people is a slippery slope to asking me not to tell people to kill themselves.” Fucking, good!
Btw, you can make your argument if you want, but then like, where do we stop? If I call a straight person the f-slur, is that acceptable? I’m not actually saying it at a gay person, I’m just insulting someone by suggesting that they’re gay. Is it ok for a white person to tell another white person they’re acting like an n-word? Exactly how far are you willing to take this bullshit?
Yes. 🤦 Jfc, “asking me not to use a slur against disabled people is a slippery slope to asking me not to tell people to kill themselves.” Fucking, good!
how many times do i have to explain that im not using it against disabled people.
I like how you completely ignored my arguments.
Is it acceptable for a white person to tell another white person they’re “acting like an [n-word]?” Yes or no.
it wasn’t good, you just threw some shit in a bowl and went “ooh argument”
Is it acceptable for a white person to tell another white person they’re “acting like an [n-word]?” Yes or no.
again, i’m not saying that people are acting like retards, i’m calling them one. There’s a contextual difference that you don’t seem to understand.
Now if we’re going to fix that argument for you, free of charge you would say something like “is it ok for a white person to call another white person the N word?” could go either way depending on the context. Heavily context dependent usage.
I’ve got no stick in this fight but just wanted to chime in and say you’re losing this argument buddy
God, what a shit perspective.
Comparing someone to a category as an insult is also insulting the people in that category regardless of whether the person it’s directed at is part of the category or not. Calling a white person the n-word is offensive to black people, calling a straight person the f-slur is offensive to gay people, and calling neurotypical people the r-slur is offensive to the mentally disabled.
If I call you a “pasta eater” it would only work as an insult if there’s an unstated assumption that eating pasta is bad. If I call you “gay” it only works an insult with the unstated assumption that being gay is bad. This isn’t rocket science.
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Honestly, calling this admin retarded is valid because a lot of them genuinely seem to have an IQ low enough to get that medical diagnosis.
idk how they haven’t choked on their own spit tbh.
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That exactly is the verb (“to retard”). You might mean the noun “a retard” which does not have good uses I can think of.
Retardant, retardation, retarding, retarded and a ton of other drives words also do indeed have actual real world meanings and uses that have nothing to do with humans.
I mean, i never really stopped calling people like Rogan and Trump retarded… But calling it a great cultural victory, is just… Retarded.
Rogan really being a gay retard here
Ironically, retard was originally a kinder word cooked up to describe people with lower intelligence, along with moron, idiot, cretin, and imbecile. Over time these became pejoratives. Just kind of interesting to see how language develops and terms intended to avoid offense over time turn into ones that offend people.
Yes, when you come up with a word to describe people that others consider less/worse than themselves, they will invariably end up using the word to describe them as an insult to others. This will happen no matter how mundane or non offensive you try to make the word.
Retarded people are literally retarded. Hope this helps.
This is the very nature of slurs, and more largely language in general, in the first place. It’s not the signifier, it’s the signified.
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Amazing how referring to people by their perceived flaws can be offensive
I mean, isn’t this common sense? If you work for me and bring me some sub-par work, I can call you a fucking retard, and you’ll probably be offended. On the other hand, if I pull you aside and say that usually you do excellent work, but I’m not liking this, and here’s a couple ideas to improve your work, you might look upon that more fondly.
In both scenarios, I’m communicating that I’m not happy with you and/or your work, but one is likely to lead to an HR incident and one isn’t. How is this “woke”? (I fucking hate that term, because it tends to be use as shorthand for “stuff I don’t like”, but no two people seem to share definition beyond that)
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If a word is used with the intent to insult people, no shit that that word starts getting perceived as an insult.
It’s the euphemism treadmill
How this fucking australopithecus became a thought leader, I will never understand.
He’s a morons idea of a clever person. That’s how
It never went anywhere, there was just a heavily monied effort to quite literally equate it with the n-word.
In the immortal words of George Carlin “it’s bullshit, and it’s bad for you.”
This entire subject is a distraction. Stay focused on the major problems these clowns are creating, and we can all have a war of words when the fascists have been expelled from the highest eschilons of the US government.
Honestly, if the culture war has been going on this long and the “greatest victory” they can show for it is feeling comfortable using the r slur again, thats just deeply sad for them lol.
I think wayyyyy more people than you realize say it. Even people you think are raging leftists. Most of us got quiet because we in general agree with left leaning things. Feel free to skim my profile…
But man… fucking EVERYONE says retarded. I’m very left leaning. Once I got away from a few select people… it was genuinely kind of a culture shock for me how many people say it lol.
I’m not advocating for people to just sling it like crazy… and I know in a way that’s kind of what’s gonna happen to SOME EXTENT… but as someone who tried to push other folks toward not saying this in the past…
I 100% think it’s a lost cause. I don’t think it’s going away. I don’t personally think it’s ableist and never did.
To make a comparison, from my perspective, it’s kind of like turning the word “insane” into a slur… we did some reaaaal bad things to people under the veil they were “insane.” We put people in jail and mental hospital for most of their lives. We fried their brains with medication and lobotomized them both chemically and physically. It’s not as common, but it is 100% an insult to tell someone they are insane or acting insane (I mean if they’re bashing their skull into a tree or somethin that IS insane but that would also be an extreme example to call someone retarded over)
But we don’t get upset about calling people insane today… everything has context and I think the context of retard has moved on from why people are offended.
A more apt comparison is being equally mad you called someone slow… I mean… retard is literally a word for slow in French… it kinda really only become ableist when someone wants it to be interpreted that way. At what point is simply calling someone stupid not also then ableist? Are we gonna crucify people if they use any other insult beyond “ignorant” that doesn’t indicate the insultee’s willingness in their stupidity? Or is “you lack/display a lack of intelligence” (the definition of stupidity) somehow more classy than slow and retarded in your eyes?
My 2c is that unless you expect to erase the word (you’re not going to) you’re better off helping to change the meaning in common view (most of us just think it means ya RLY RLY fkin dumb but use a word beyond stupid or idiot) and steal it back from them. Grinding to death and dividing OURSELVES internally over shit this nonsensical is killing us.
It’s an easy code switch that uses their language against them and makes you more credible in their eyes 🤷🏻 as an ally I’m just saying not every battle can be won the way you originally wanted it to be
TLDR: bunch of different justifications for why I call MAGATs retards when they make stupid points in arguments
I don’t know if it’s the circles I’m around or what, but this is not my experience at all. As someone with a nonverbal autistic loved one who was bullied with this slur, I disagree with the idea that it doesn’t cause harm to continue to use it. If someone uses it I ask that they don’t use it around me and that’s been respected. Language evolves over time, and we need to evolve away from using what was relatively recently a medical diagnosis as an insult.
Personally, I think the problem was that they were being bullied, not what specific names they were being called.
Like don’t use it all? I mean I don’t know the last time I’ve said it but it does have uses besides calling people it. And why is it worse then stupid or slow dumb whatever as I imagine they where bullied with those words also.
Sounds like those bullies are fucking retards
The problem isn’t them being slow/delayed, it’s that they’re inhuman monsters. Hope this helps, words have specific meanings and all that :)
I also find it funny that calling someone a retard is considered less acceptable than calling someone an idiot. Especially when examined under an ableist lens.
Down syndrome, as a genetic condition, is out of their control
Being ignorant is a choice.
100% think it’s a lost cause. I don’t think it’s going away. I don’t personally think it’s ableist and never did.
I don’t think it’s ever going fully away. But it is still important to call it out when we see it.
Just in case anyone had begun to consider that Joe Rogan is anything but an absolute infected boil on the ass of civilization.
The mother fucker double dips. Pay for his show and still get ads. Fuck that.
That’s your primary grievance with Joe Rogan?
Retarded is what you call your friends when they’re being retarded
Michael Scott
Wonder how long he would think this if everyone just started introducing him as “The Retard, Joe Rogan.” I’d bet the very millisecond it started to affect him personally, he’d be changing his tune. These fucking ghouls don’t want freedom of speech, they want the ability to police OUR speech.
Isn’t that how people already refer to him?
He deserves much worse words tbh
What did ghouls ever do to you?
It’s only when they go feral that they’re a problem.
I’m not a Rogan fan, and don’t agree with him on almost anything.
However, I’m a few years younger than him, and grew up with the word as an insult, the same as him. This was back when the absolute worst insults you could call a dude was the “F” bomb, and a girl the “C” bomb. The “R” bomb was fairly tame. It was a mild insult between friends, like “idiot,” “dumbass,” or “asshole.”
So, I really don’t have a problem with it, EXCEPT when it’s used to hatefully mock an actual retarded person, THEN it’s a different story. A furious different story. I had an older uncle who was severely retarded, and a girlfriend whose sister who was, also.
And yes, I know times change, and yes, “If it was about somebody you cared about…” I get it. It still doesn’t bother me unless it’s to harm someone actually that way. And yes, I realize he’s stated what he stated to get attention. Fuck him.
I also have no real dog in the fight, I grew up with the word being slung around with casual ease, and honestly it still is in most places, despite a lot of what the sensitive younger generation might be seeing in their own spaces, the culture between “average people” would seem highly problematic to most activist-minded individuals.
I have curbed my use, but I’m not going to attack people who say it to criticize power or insult someone who truly deserves it. This is one of those lefty “purity tests” that I can’t connect with fully, so I know average moderates will be wildly pushed away from this kind of mindless scolding, so I also don’t make it an issue. I literally do not care.
Now all that said, I think we need to collectively LAY WASTE to Rogan and all he stands for. His delight in being able to say a slur again is the most crass, stupid, R-word statement that he’s made yet, and he deserves to suffer as much as the people with intellectual disabilities who are going to be bullied and harmed because of his cavalier and inept attitude towards language and logic.
Guys, it’s okay to not be totally consistent. It’s okay to condemn Rogan for saying this and you aren’t going to be judged. Seriously, get on that soap box and knock this ape down a peg.
I grew up in the same culture acceptance of these terms, but I’ve grown to think of it like this. If I wouldn’t say it to the group of people it’s describing, using it to describe other people carries the same meaning.
You can’t separate the term from the group of people it’s offending. So using it as an insult reinforces it’s meaning and acknowledging why it’s offensive. So it’s equally wrong.
It’s the same reason I don’t say the n-word or why I wouldn’t use the derogatory terms used for trans people even in a joke.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I don’t say it anymore, and I don’t use the “N” bomb, or the “F” bomb. I despise those people. I go out of my way to treat everyone with kindness and respect, until they prove they don’t deserve it. I’m just sarcastic sometimes. I’m just saying I’ve been hardened to that language, but I don’t like it, and I don’t use it, and I don’t associate with people who do.
My father was a rabid, irrational, to the point of mental illness racist, homophobe, misogynist, you name it. Everything that went wrong in his life was someone else’s fault. The man couldn’t have a 5 minute conversation without saying the “N” word. It wouldn’t surprise me if I learned he was in the Klan, but he’s been dead 13 years. This is because he was a malignant narcissist, who couldn’t admit fault. A person that I hated most of my life, so I fortunately wasn’t indoctrinated into the Cult of Hate.
Honestly it was the politically correct word in the 80s, although it was simultaneously used as a slur. A lot of those people are still alive and just hate having to constantly change to new language.
Every time we come up with a technical term to describe people with medical impairments to their intelligence, people begin using it as an insult.
I guess here’s hoping “intellectually disabled” doesn’t catch on (hopefully too wordy).
I knew a guy who used “delayed” as an insult after HR told him to stop calling people retards. It offended people just as much but wasn’t against the rules.
People will find a way.
There’s a name for it- euphemism treadmill
I’m not american and don’t care about politics but I was watching a show the other day and when Rogan appeared as a guest I had to shut off after 5 minutes. This person is so annoying I couldn’t stand. Don’t know how you guys do it. I didn’t even liked him in newsradio and I loved the show.
That’s crazy. Anyway, have you tried DMT?
Once he had Alex Jones on his show peddling “clean coal” I stopped listening to him.
Joe Rogan has really sold out to his mentally absent base. What a victory for them.
