As a follower of Jesus Christ, I’m disappointed you think that. I firmly believe there’s a religion for everyone on this planet. And that hatred of religion as a concept can easily lead to dismissing foreign cultures’ spiritual practices.
Religion is just believing without evidence. And with that “logic” you can make up anything and get people to believe in it. That is how every cult starts. A religion is just a long lasting cult. It is nothing more than a bit for control over people like you.
No wonder that the majority of religious people believe in the religion they were taught when they couldn’t think critically yet.
I’m afraid I don’t have time to answer all your hastily listed arguments with a well thought out response, so I’ll just pick one. You said religion is belief without evidence, but that’s faith. Religion is actually organised belief or worship. There are many religions that don’t require any faith to believe in.
For example many Buddhists don’t believe in any of the parts of the religion they consider supernatural, and instead focus on the philosophy and life advice, which is still religious in nature because of its organisation.
Worshippers of the Antichrist, Donald Trump, also don’t tend to believe without apparent evidence. The evidence they do believe in is all lies, but what they’re doing still isn’t faith. Being lied to with bad evidence isn’t faith.
And as a third example, the religion of Mammon, the worship of money, can be practiced entirely unknowingly and without the slightest suggestion of false belief. It’s clearly true that money runs the world, and many people worship money and capitalism because of its obvious and true power over us.
And I think if you don’t choose a religion consciously, then like many worshippers of Mammon, you may end up joining a system of organised worship unconsciously. The Lemmy developers are in a religion without knowing, it’s that easy.
There are plenty of things that require belief without evidence that aren’t religion (conspiracy theories, pseudoscience). There are also religions that rely on science for answers, and so they do require evidence.
if those spiritual practices are being used to oppress, as is often the case, then good. We should disregard them. There are cultures who believe that sexually abusing young men is just, because they need to consume “the spirit of life” through another man’s semen in order to produce offspring. Should we be respecting those practices?
People are allowed to believe in whatever nonsense they like in the comfort of their own homes, but the second that shit spills out into the real world, it almost universally becomes a problem.
. And that hatred of religion as a concept can easily lead to dismissing foreign cultures’ spiritual practices
Yes, I’m going to dismiss foreign culture religion, just like I dismiss my culture’s religions. They’re not special just because they’re not from here, it’s still the same humans
Worshipping people 2 thousand years dead is stupid.
And if you found out the natives of the land you live on were teaching religion to their children, would you support the government kidnapping the children and putting them with white families to learn science and writing and “civilised manners”? That’s the kind of actual historical event I’m concerned about happening when religious knowledge is valued less than white people’s idea of academic knowledge.
Religious knowledge is explicitly less valuable than academic knowledge.
I’m not talking about christian, white people’s idea of manners and civilization. That is still awful. Instead of kidnapping, that’s what public schools should be for, teaching reading, writing, and science.
Those kidnappings were genocide. I advocate for religion to be suppressed, especially the sexist and racist ones(but not only), not for all forms of culture and tradition to be suppressed.
Well I will describe a religious belief I hold to you, and I’m eager to hear what you think of it.
Burning fossil fuels is a sin. We’re not supposed to dig them out of the ground and burn them. When fossil fuels are burned, they react and turn to greenhouse gases, which warm the planet and bring natural disasters. And because Elohim is a god of great wrath, the disasters do not just harm those who sinned, but everyone, and disproportionately the poorest who don’t have the resources to survive natural disaster. To find peace with the world around us, we must stop fossil fuel emissions and sacrifice our billionaires to Elohim upon a ritual pyre.
A great example on why religious knowledge is less valuable than scientific knowledge. The belief that the issues are that simple and blocks understanding of why it happens and how to prevent similar situations from recurring.
More however, the god parts have no value. If you insert science into religion, it’s still science. The science information should be extracted from the religious knowledge, and the less valuable religious parts discarded.
If you insert science into religion, it’s still science
And all religions have science in them. Pacific Islanders know things about wayfaring and wave dynamics that physicists are just now discovering. Colonisers in Australia spoiled the environment by disregarding indigenous conservation practices. Buddhists have been teaching western psychologists about the uses of meditation for the past two decades. The Haudenosaunee taught Karl Marx’s friends about communism. Muslims were avoiding dangerous meats before germ theory was invented. For hundreds of years, westerners have dismissed religious knowledge and said oopsie when they later learned there was science inside the religion. I caution you not to make the same mistake.
I’m appreciative that you’re entirely misunderstanding what I think should be happening in favor of writing your own narrative. I do not think that religious texts and oral histories should be erased. They should be studied. I think that religion deserves suppression. There will be no magical discoveries religious people make anymore. Most of that was likely not religious until they made it as such to get people to believe them in the first place.
The scientific information can and should be taken in. But, I explicitly said “less value” not no value in regards to religious knowledge, which you so kindly ignored, again to write your own narrative, one where you condescendingly assume I did not already know what you just stated
There will be no magical discoveries religious people make anymore
I implore you to consider the fact that every living culture on this earth is still changing, evolving, and growing, and even some dead religions have been revived. And these religions have access to the scientific method just as you do.
So unless you mean to imply that science is finished making discoveries, which I’m certain you don’t, then religions will keep making discoveries. The Buddhists are still improving their meditation techniques. The Pacific islanders are still training to be better wayfarers. The Australian Aboriginals are learning to care for a land ravaged by climate change.
Religions as dead things written in an old book is a western idea and I fear you have projected this onto distinctly nonwestern religions where truth comes from a connection to the ancestors and the land, constantly evolving as the people and the land evolve. And to nonwestern religions where truth comes from exploration of the mind, and surely you can see the mind is a highly dynamic environment in the modern day, ripe for fresh discoveries.
That’s a cute story that provides a tidy explanation for religion, but is it supported by the anthropological evidence? Where are your sources? Are you sure you’re not just making up stories in an attempt to explain things that you do not understand?
I agree with you completely, Christianity is a disease on society. I am not a Christian. I consider Christianity to be a blatant heresy against our lord and saviour, Jesus Christ. I, like Jesus, believe in the principles of Judaism. You might say I’m part of the Jesus-worshipping Jewish cult. Paul is the inventor of Christianity, and his innovation was to twist Judaism to fit with Roman ideals. Elohim is the god to the oppressed, and Paul thought he could make Him god to the oppressors. It’s a paradox.
I am deeply opposed to Roman ideology. Did you know the Nazis considered themselves to be Romans? And now we have a Fourth Reich of the Roman Empire gathering strength in the west. All very Christian, of course. So I tell you truly that I think as poorly of Christianity as you do, because I am a follower of Christ.
There are plenty of people who don’t have a religion, and they seem to be just fine. I personally don’t think that I need religion, but since it seems to make my life better, I’m glad that I have it.
Why would you center your life around something that neither you, not any single person in the past 2000+ years has been able to verify or prove in even the most basic fashion?
Why should I care about truth? I think kindness and wisdom are more important for making good decisions. Sure, truth has its place, like with medical decisions and climate policy. But it doesn’t need to infect every aspect of our lives. I don’t care about truth when I go to the movies and watch a red metal man punch a big purple man.
Yes, yes, I already said truth is good for medical decisions. I just don’t think it needs to be crammed into every aspect of our lives. Sometimes people just want a break from truth.
You think I’m unable to enjoy fiction? I’m just able to tell the difference between fiction and reality. An ability that I believe is REALLY fucking important.
Well there you go, you don’t care about truth all the time, you have time in your life to set truth aside and enjoy fantasy. You just hadn’t realised it until I pointed it out.
As a follower of Jesus Christ, I’m disappointed you think that. I firmly believe there’s a religion for everyone on this planet. And that hatred of religion as a concept can easily lead to dismissing foreign cultures’ spiritual practices.
And why should everyone have a religion?
Religion is just believing without evidence. And with that “logic” you can make up anything and get people to believe in it. That is how every cult starts. A religion is just a long lasting cult. It is nothing more than a bit for control over people like you.
No wonder that the majority of religious people believe in the religion they were taught when they couldn’t think critically yet.
I’m afraid I don’t have time to answer all your hastily listed arguments with a well thought out response, so I’ll just pick one. You said religion is belief without evidence, but that’s faith. Religion is actually organised belief or worship. There are many religions that don’t require any faith to believe in.
For example many Buddhists don’t believe in any of the parts of the religion they consider supernatural, and instead focus on the philosophy and life advice, which is still religious in nature because of its organisation.
Worshippers of the Antichrist, Donald Trump, also don’t tend to believe without apparent evidence. The evidence they do believe in is all lies, but what they’re doing still isn’t faith. Being lied to with bad evidence isn’t faith.
And as a third example, the religion of Mammon, the worship of money, can be practiced entirely unknowingly and without the slightest suggestion of false belief. It’s clearly true that money runs the world, and many people worship money and capitalism because of its obvious and true power over us.
And I think if you don’t choose a religion consciously, then like many worshippers of Mammon, you may end up joining a system of organised worship unconsciously. The Lemmy developers are in a religion without knowing, it’s that easy.
There are plenty of things that require belief without evidence that aren’t religion (conspiracy theories, pseudoscience). There are also religions that rely on science for answers, and so they do require evidence.
Well I’m sold
if those spiritual practices are being used to oppress, as is often the case, then good. We should disregard them. There are cultures who believe that sexually abusing young men is just, because they need to consume “the spirit of life” through another man’s semen in order to produce offspring. Should we be respecting those practices?
People are allowed to believe in whatever nonsense they like in the comfort of their own homes, but the second that shit spills out into the real world, it almost universally becomes a problem.
I beg you to take a moment to understand and empathise with your neighbours. The Haudenosaunee, the Koori, the Maya, have done nothing to harm you.
Oh damn, well you better drop the mic after that one 🙄
Yes, I’m going to dismiss foreign culture religion, just like I dismiss my culture’s religions. They’re not special just because they’re not from here, it’s still the same humans
Worshipping people 2 thousand years dead is stupid.
And if you found out the natives of the land you live on were teaching religion to their children, would you support the government kidnapping the children and putting them with white families to learn science and writing and “civilised manners”? That’s the kind of actual historical event I’m concerned about happening when religious knowledge is valued less than white people’s idea of academic knowledge.
Religious knowledge is explicitly less valuable than academic knowledge.
I’m not talking about christian, white people’s idea of manners and civilization. That is still awful. Instead of kidnapping, that’s what public schools should be for, teaching reading, writing, and science.
Those kidnappings were genocide. I advocate for religion to be suppressed, especially the sexist and racist ones(but not only), not for all forms of culture and tradition to be suppressed.
Well I will describe a religious belief I hold to you, and I’m eager to hear what you think of it.
Burning fossil fuels is a sin. We’re not supposed to dig them out of the ground and burn them. When fossil fuels are burned, they react and turn to greenhouse gases, which warm the planet and bring natural disasters. And because Elohim is a god of great wrath, the disasters do not just harm those who sinned, but everyone, and disproportionately the poorest who don’t have the resources to survive natural disaster. To find peace with the world around us, we must stop fossil fuel emissions and sacrifice our billionaires to Elohim upon a ritual pyre.
A great example on why religious knowledge is less valuable than scientific knowledge. The belief that the issues are that simple and blocks understanding of why it happens and how to prevent similar situations from recurring.
More however, the god parts have no value. If you insert science into religion, it’s still science. The science information should be extracted from the religious knowledge, and the less valuable religious parts discarded.
And all religions have science in them. Pacific Islanders know things about wayfaring and wave dynamics that physicists are just now discovering. Colonisers in Australia spoiled the environment by disregarding indigenous conservation practices. Buddhists have been teaching western psychologists about the uses of meditation for the past two decades. The Haudenosaunee taught Karl Marx’s friends about communism. Muslims were avoiding dangerous meats before germ theory was invented. For hundreds of years, westerners have dismissed religious knowledge and said oopsie when they later learned there was science inside the religion. I caution you not to make the same mistake.
I’m appreciative that you’re entirely misunderstanding what I think should be happening in favor of writing your own narrative. I do not think that religious texts and oral histories should be erased. They should be studied. I think that religion deserves suppression. There will be no magical discoveries religious people make anymore. Most of that was likely not religious until they made it as such to get people to believe them in the first place.
The scientific information can and should be taken in. But, I explicitly said “less value” not no value in regards to religious knowledge, which you so kindly ignored, again to write your own narrative, one where you condescendingly assume I did not already know what you just stated
I implore you to consider the fact that every living culture on this earth is still changing, evolving, and growing, and even some dead religions have been revived. And these religions have access to the scientific method just as you do.
So unless you mean to imply that science is finished making discoveries, which I’m certain you don’t, then religions will keep making discoveries. The Buddhists are still improving their meditation techniques. The Pacific islanders are still training to be better wayfarers. The Australian Aboriginals are learning to care for a land ravaged by climate change.
Religions as dead things written in an old book is a western idea and I fear you have projected this onto distinctly nonwestern religions where truth comes from a connection to the ancestors and the land, constantly evolving as the people and the land evolve. And to nonwestern religions where truth comes from exploration of the mind, and surely you can see the mind is a highly dynamic environment in the modern day, ripe for fresh discoveries.
No, people invented religions in an attempt to explain things that they did not understand.
Things that the scientific method has allowed us to understand.
That is not science.
That’s a cute story that provides a tidy explanation for religion, but is it supported by the anthropological evidence? Where are your sources? Are you sure you’re not just making up stories in an attempt to explain things that you do not understand?
It’s like you’re incapable of going a single comment without at least one logical fallacy.
deleted by creator
I agree with you completely, Christianity is a disease on society. I am not a Christian. I consider Christianity to be a blatant heresy against our lord and saviour, Jesus Christ. I, like Jesus, believe in the principles of Judaism. You might say I’m part of the Jesus-worshipping Jewish cult. Paul is the inventor of Christianity, and his innovation was to twist Judaism to fit with Roman ideals. Elohim is the god to the oppressed, and Paul thought he could make Him god to the oppressors. It’s a paradox.
I am deeply opposed to Roman ideology. Did you know the Nazis considered themselves to be Romans? And now we have a Fourth Reich of the Roman Empire gathering strength in the west. All very Christian, of course. So I tell you truly that I think as poorly of Christianity as you do, because I am a follower of Christ.
Give me a fucking break.
Can you help me with a christlike waffle recipe?
There are plenty of people who don’t have a religion, and they seem to be just fine. I personally don’t think that I need religion, but since it seems to make my life better, I’m glad that I have it.
Why would you center your life around something that neither you, not any single person in the past 2000+ years has been able to verify or prove in even the most basic fashion?
Don’t you care about believing true things?
Why should I care about truth? I think kindness and wisdom are more important for making good decisions. Sure, truth has its place, like with medical decisions and climate policy. But it doesn’t need to infect every aspect of our lives. I don’t care about truth when I go to the movies and watch a red metal man punch a big purple man.
Because truth allows us to cure awful, painful and debilitating diseases, for one? Need more examples, or…?
Oh ok, so we just turn off the part of our brain that cares about truth for what benefit exactly?
Yes, yes, I already said truth is good for medical decisions. I just don’t think it needs to be crammed into every aspect of our lives. Sometimes people just want a break from truth.
“A break from truth” is how we end up with fascism. It’s why we end up with racism and bigotry.
No, just no. What is the benefit to any of this?
If we set aside truth for a moment, then we can enjoy fiction. It’s called suspending one’s disbelief.
You think I’m unable to enjoy fiction? I’m just able to tell the difference between fiction and reality. An ability that I believe is REALLY fucking important.
Well there you go, you don’t care about truth all the time, you have time in your life to set truth aside and enjoy fantasy. You just hadn’t realised it until I pointed it out.