You must log in or # to comment.
Anyway, I was suspecting that this “issue” might come up so I’ve removed the Claude co-authorship from the commits a few days ago. So good luck figuring out what’s generated and what is not.
Great way to torpedo any trust people might’ve had in your project.
It is kind of hilarious that this is actually the issue here. Sure, using AI for coding can be problematic. But then going back and removing any reference to it just to fuck with people even more. Damn.
I think it’s hilarious how much it’s bothering you guys
CAREFUL! That’s borderline troll thinking.
While I hate AI as much as the next guy. It’s also entirely true that people are attacking and harassing people for using making them a worse problem.
I’m entirely down for fucking with the dipshits who can’t help themselves but be massive twats.
If your going to have a shit show might as well make it a good one.
Oh you don’t like to know when we put shit in your food so you can scrutinize it? Fine we’ll just not tell you.
Congratz now ALL of it contains shit.
Schrodinger’s Backdoor
All jokes aside, Windows (pre ai) was filled with backdoors now. Still is, probably has more, but it never stopped them in the past.
“Haha now you won’t know what is or isn’t slop!!”
“But then we’ll just assume it’s all slop…”
“…D’oh!!!”
They are making the point that you won’t be able to tell the difference. & It’s a salient one.
Doesn’t give much confidence in their coding abilities then.
Okay. I guess you want the volunteer open source dev to write everything by hand from scratch so it will pass your high standards. That’s on you, honestly.
Ahh yes, how dare a community run and funded project have community accountability.
The project has several ways of being community funded.
Accountability for what!? You people have lost your minds.
Ah yes, if anyone is against AI, because of its problems, then we’ve all lost our minds.
Yes, that is what we want. Or at least everything past boilerplate templates.
Thats like…exactly how its been done up to this point???
Even if that were true, which it isn’t, there are plenty of other reasons to scrutinize any use of “generative” AI.
Like…?
deleted by creator
“You didn’t like what I was doing? No fucking problem I’ll just lie about it moving forward”
Having read the article, some points from the dev make sense, but also he acted like a princess by the end, so a bit of a messy situation.
Uninstalled, bye bye ai slop.
I’ll be uninstalling tonight.
I’m not gonna lie, Lutris is fucking terrible. Basic QOL things are missing. There’s so many disjointed ways of doing so many things. The same 2-5 things need to be set every time you add an app and it’s basically all manual because they have done nothing to make it better. There’s thousands and switches and options, and the only way to find information about what they do is to hit the web… and then you find out so many of them are probably useless.
There’s built in install scripts for things but trying to figure out any information about them within the program itself is also useless.
Then there’s the shit that just doesn’t work. Other tools like Heroic Games Launcher are the only way to install games from providers like epic. You can spend hours troubleshooting this in Lutris, and maybe even get an epic game to install and run once… but everything is going to be a broken mess on try 2.
Just a disappointing app all around once you really start working with it. It’s a shame it seems to be the default mode wine app manager.
Speaking of install scripts, their refusal to version them for “reasons” was my first hint that the project wasn’t in a healthy state.
I just removed Lutris and tried out Bottles last night. How have I never tried it before? It’s so good!
Expect the dev behind it is also a insane twat waffle.
Bottles is about as much of a mess as lutris is with a dev that’s just as crazy.
Generally you have a 50/50 coin flip if lutris or bottles works for you. And for the most part you sorta just try both and see which works then attempt as hard as you can to change nothing so it don’t break. Cause bottles LOVES to break.
I don’t think the dev of Lutris is an insane twat waffle. He and I just disagree on the use of AI code. I foresee the project’s quality declining because of it, and I’d prefer to jump ship now. Lutris wasn’t a big part of my system, so it was really easy. Basically I only ever used it to run WinSCP on Linux.
Oh poop, been using lutris and it was pretty good at what it was doing for me. What might be alternatives though?
Heroic is pretty good
Heroic has been my go to for everything outside of my Steam library.
Bottles, maybe?
Heroic. Bottles for the rest.
I’ve found Faugus to just be better.
Heroic and Steam.
Heroic for GOG and Epic games.
Steam for literally everything else: add the .exe as a non-Steam game, find it in your library, go into its properties, set Compatibility > Force Compatibility Mode > Proton Experimental.
Heroic can add games to Steam for you.
I just fucking install my games like normal with wine if needed.
What is wrong with people that you can’t install something and add a .desktop entry on your system?
I simply can’t take the one-prefix-fits-all approach. Some games play way nicer with older wine versions (especially 32bit games. From the top of my head, The Sims 1 works better for me with Wine 8). A prefix manager is really helpful for managing prefixes with different wine versions that don’t clog up the rest of the system.
But go off being an ass, I guess.
I use wine with winetricks for the manager and the other stuff that makes it easier. I also use q4wine. It’s a GUI for wine written in Qt. Both makes things simpler to varying degrees, and winetricks does have some scripts (though I don’t know how they would compare to lutris)
Neat, thank you, I’ll be taking a peek at that combo!
Lutris furfils several roles that a bunch of
.desktopentries will not.- Its a list of games
- you can search it by title
- you can tag them
- you can sort them in different ways
- you can use wine for some launches, proton for others or native
although i don’t use it, you can log into your steam account (i think also gog?) to get access to games from there.
Think of it, as a more of a plex/jellyfin library for games than a bunch of video files spread around your hdd. I don’t want to remember which games are wine friendly and which need proton or are linux native.
Never used that shit.
“Add non-Steam game”
That is generally the approach I use, but some games take a bit more setup. I play StarCraft2 for Archipelago and I needed to install it with this app to get the proper script to get it to run successfully. What this app has that Steam doesn’t is the ability for people to create, export, and share custom install and launch profiles for others to use.
With that said I will need to see what Heroic Launcher has to offer.
Ahhh, that is useful.
I used a bit of Heroic and liked it, I hope it fills your needs!
Lord Almighty the reactionary hate is so goddamn stupid.
Do you blame people for having a knee-jerk reaction to unwelcome AI integration? Or would you mind elaboring on what you view as reactionary.
Yes. Theyre being reactionary.
Are these people even paying a single penny to the developer or are they just acting entitled?
Have they contributed at all to the project? Its foss, maybe they dhould open up their own PRs and fix it if they care so much.
Theyre welcome to fork it anytime they want and just not merge in any AI commits, if they can spot them, right?
But I bet you no one will actually do this, people will mald and act entitled and stamp their feet… and then keep using it anyways and never pay a cent to the dev.
Fuck em. The dev doesnt owe them shit.
The dev “owes us” as people to not be a shitty person, or at the very least, we should expect them not to be one. It absolutely is a slap in the face to people who trusted that project and the person heading it to not be shit, because they are now being shit, and people are right to call them out. Because they’re being shit.
Also you’re right, more people should donate to FLOSS projects that they love and use frequently, as do I. As someone with no programming knowledge, it’s all I can do aside from recommending your software to others. Wanna know one way to ensure I’ll not only withhold donations but warn others not to use or trust your software? Defending and/or using AI slop machines.
Yeah I do. This is a small, volunteer, open source developer creating something for our benefit & has found a way to ease their workload but the purity brigade demands they type everything out by hand from scratch b/c they have big feels & are reflexively reactionary about AI. Seems shitty to me.
Gotcha, I have a different definition of reactionary.
I interpreted your comment to mean: “these guys are mad the human who made the project is no longer writing the project in its entirety. So they feel the need to abandon the project and villify the author for using the big plagiarism tool.”
If I’m correct in my interpretation. I would agree with that comment, making me also reactionary by your definition.
This is a project released for free by volunteers we’re talking about, not a commercial service pushing hostile crap on users.
I think the dev in question is shitty for treating Lutris as their own fiefdom, but the mob are looking a gift horse in the mouth by attacking volunteers when they’re not willing to step up and contribute non-AI code themselves.
I think you mean a different idiom than “a gift horse in the mouth”
What’s wrong with it? Seems like the right metaphor.
People are complaining about the minutiae of something they’ve been given freely and don’t have to use.
“Looking a gift horse in the mouth” means that you’ve received a gift of some kind, but you’re giving it too much scrutiny. It kind of shows the giver of the gift that you’re not really appreciative of it - sometimes it’s better to smile and nod and thank them for the gift, and scrutinize it later.
I guess what you mean is that Lutris is the gift, but my first reading was that the opportunity to chastise a developer for using AI was the gift.
deleted by creator
Why are you making up quotes I didn’t say and don’t reflect my opinion in the slightest?
From the outside, it sure looks like you’re trying to flame and stir drama to address your own emotional state, rather than make any sort of coherent argument to persuade people to your line of thinking.
unwelcome AI integration
This isn’t an integration. They’re just using AI to write some of the code.
I don’t AI so I don’t know the lingo. I think it’s shit so I don’t want shit near my nice things.
Fair. But keep in mind if you ever use auto translate, Netflix recommendations, Google search (or ddg), Windows, Mac, android. iPhone. Any service hosted on AWS (like 70% of all sites) you’re indirectly using ai.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m with out. But it’s unavoidable.
I see it as one if those “no ethical consumption under capitalism” kinda things. You can’t avoid it because the people that control the thing are adding shit to the recipe.
Sure, and I agree there’s no ethical consumption, but I don’t see it as a flat line.
There’s more and less when it comes to ethical.
I actually dont see the fucking problem. Let them develop it way they want. People will tell if it’s good or not.
The problem is installing buggy clanker code on thousands of systems where the experience level is “I like games”
Ethics objections aside, dude said he’s not even reviewing some of the code the AI generates. At least leave the markers where it shows which code is what so proper scrutiny can be given.
Lutris dev is a straight up crybaby and needs to learn to a) read a room and b) not take risks with other people’s systems to stroke his own fucking ego.
Fucking bitchmade shit.
At this point I guess we’re just assuming it’s “buggy” due to the IA, right? You guys just have to accept that these tools will do better job than humans in the near future, at least for basic or intermediate programming. It’s going to get better that it is today and we’re going to have to live with it. I agree on marking the code. That should be necessary. Besides that, I really don’t care about the dev. As I said before no one is forcing us to use Lutris.
At this point I guess we’re just assuming it’s “buggy” due to the IA, right?
No. But it might be. We don’t know because the guy who’s supposed to double check, isn’t. And admits to it like its some kind of brag.
There also the whole debate around licensing. Generative images have been called “art laundering”, and the same can be argued for code.
It’s a potential way to break FOSS licenses. Just copy the code and have an AI re-implement what it does, and boom you get to ignore license obligations.
It’s going to get better that it is today and we’re going to have to live with it.
Just shut up with this line.
Every piece of human-made code that’s available online has already been trawled hundreds of times, and anything new doesn’t get added often. There are no more examples for AI agents to use in training that weren’t used before. Their progress in generating code is plateauing.
AI generated code is still notorious at hallucinating API calls and making code that doesn’t work. And the code that does work tends to be overcomplicated and unoptimized. And this code isn’t easily maintainable because the “developers” weren’t involved in its production.
Whether or not I use Claude is not going to change society, this requires changes at a deeper level, and we all know that nothing is going to improve with the current US administration.
I mean yeah, that’s true. Why waste energy harassing developers of libre software for using AI? That’s not going to have any impact on big tech.
The point of drawing a line is to make a clear distinction between acceptable and unacceptable. If you just move the line when it’s convenient then it means nothing.
Sure, but if you end up policing only those in arm’s length you will have the opposite effect on the world of what you want.
Nobody’s only policing those in arm’s length. I’m sure nobody mad at the Lutris dev over this are defending Google or Microsoft lol
policing only those in arm’s length
Dude, you’re on Lemmy. Do you not realize how many people on here are saying “fuck it, let’s drop Google and Microslop and stick with FLOSS”? How many people on here are trying to convince others to switch too?
These people are already doing what they can to steer the entire tech space in the right direction. But it’s hard to influence the giants directly. To do that, you need good FLOSS alternatives, which doesn’t work if those alternatives start riddling themselves with slop
People simply do not want AI. They don’t want to look at AI “art”, don’t want to listen to AI “music”, don’t want to read AI “books” and don’t want to use AI slopware.
This is both a matter of quality and, more importantly, principles.
And I think it’s safe to say that people in the open source community are more ideological than most. Finding out that a project is relying on exploitative corporate slop of an unknown origin is like the hippy going to the farmer’s market only to find that the guy selling “his local organic free-range cage-free” eggs is just buying factory shit from the supermarket.
I didn’t think anyone blames the Lutris guy for AI at large.
But people are passionate about things and they don’t want to support a project that they perceive is being thoughtlessly programmed, exploiting the labor of others, violating the letter or the spirit of the GPL, supporting a corrupt industry, etc.
Thank you. It’s so infuriating to come into threads like this to find “If you don’t like it, do it yourself” and shit like that. All it does is remove blame from the person making an ignorant decision, and place it on those rightfully upset because “Maybe the dev wouldn’t have been forced to use the environment destroying plagiarism machine if you have been more generous with your time.”
Yeah. But ultimately people will have to fork Lutris, or just use something else (like Faugus, Bottles, Steam, etc.), if they don’t like how things are being run.
Oh for sure, that’s one the benefits of open source stuff, you can do that in the first place. I just mean that seeing blame be misplaced gets under my skin, especially when it comes from such a disingenuous place.
Oh man I love having CVE 9 vulnerabilities in my system
Lutris has always been a pain in the ass to use. Nothing I set up worked properly. Manually setting things up via Proton has worked just fine for me, so nothing of value was lost with this fiasco.
I’ve been using Faugus and it just works. Every time I try Lutris I get upset.
No reason to hide the Claude contributions if his reasoning isn’t flawed. Honestly, my biggest beef is using AI as a subscription service, there are plenty of local LLM alternatives, and that just feeds the incentive for the web crawlers currently assaulting the Internet, for the companies also tucking in surveillance and training on your use of their AI.
Honestly, it can save you having to search through wordy API documentation, as long as you bother to make sure to make sure you end up knowing the hows and whys of what it is presenting you and whether it is good programming methodology. In a lot of ways it is no different and even faster than having to search for the answers through support forums and stack overflow. It might be built upon IP theft, but unfortunately in practical terms, you will be at a disadvantage against people that use it, so you might as well use it in a way that does not give them any way to profit off of it (Local LLMs). I’d argue that the case against these applications of generative AI is way different than those for image and video generation.
The biggest problem is when developers begin to depend on it too much without learning the nuance, but it would be a lie if there aren’t a lot of developers who contribute to Open Source without really bothering to familiarize with it already and who are more interested in the end goal than best practices. Not sure if this will make the problem better or worse, but devs who use AI without bothering to learn will have a hell of a time providing proper maintenance for their code.
Not disagreeing with you, but Anthropic believes code is the path to AGI.
I want to be clear so somebody doesn’t have a fit - I do not personally believe LLMs are capable of AGI. But this isn’t about what I believe.
They believe that coding is the path because it’s verifiable and a generatable. Frontier AI companies aren’t training on the global internet anymore, it’s poisoned with AI slop. Non-frontier AI companies do, we’ve all seen it. But it’s my opinion that non frontier AI companies are basically all but irrelevant (I’m not talking about open source/hugging face). Anthropic knows this, and their idea (again, not mine, don’t get mad at me please!) is that by training on code their AI will get better at non-coding activities as well, and if they make it good enough at coding it’ll become truly intelligent in all ways.
What I’m getting at is, there’s lots of good reasons to avoid using LLMs/AIs/Companies that shove ai down my throat (looking at you Microsoft- I don’t fucking want copilot in my fucking notepad - if anybody from MS is reading this fuck your AI in everything and fuck your AI ridden operating system), but local LLMs are not a replacement for Opus and Anthropic isn’t scraping the open internet anymore. I’m sure they did at first though.
The biggest problem is when developers begin to depend on it too much without learning the nuance I couldn’t agree more. The brain is like a muscle, if you use it, it gets stronger. If you don’t, it gets weaker. “Vibe” coding is using your brain at a minimum, and if all you do is vibe out slop you’re not really learning much.
local LLMs are not a replacement for Opus
https://www.bitdoze.com/best-open-source-llms-claude-alternative/
Something tells me you haven’t even made the effort. They are not that good, in the same way that LibreOffice is not as good as Excel. But if you are going to make the argument you quote, then you can work that brain muscle and adapt.
And they aren’t training off of the Internet because they are training on your input. It’s mind-boggling to me how some people are so willing to train their replacements while also paying them for the effort to do so for an advantage set very temporary in the future we are heading. A lot of your criticism doesn’t even apply to local LLMs - either they are trained by model distillation from more advances models or because they are images temporally set in stone. It’s also telling how implicitly willing you seem to be able to let the Internet burn, because the inevitability is becoming a corporate slave and accepting their ever increasing subscription fees which you can’t ignore because “hey, they’ve got the most users, the Internet is too dead, your open alternatives are no replacements for us”. You say you are not, but you are saying everything an AI AGI astrosurfer would be saying, and the irony of hearing this in an open source “federated” platform over something like Reddit is paramount.
I could have worded that differently, I apologize.
They aren’t a replacement for somebody like me who doesn’t have a screaming GPU.
Yes they train on input. I don’t like it either. It’s not just creepy, but I’m sure breaks privacy laws everywhere.
Regardless, you’ve already decided who I am so I don’t see this conversation being productive.
I again apologize for not making my previous comment more straightforward.
Oh, I don’t think I know who you are, I just think it’s indiscernible.
They aren’t a replacement for somebody like me who doesn’t have a screaming GPU.
You can run small LLMs that are still surprisingly good purely on modern CPUs, although I’m sure that’s part of the intent of trying to lock down supplies behind the bubble.
If you don’t believe me or you don’t get it, it doesn’t matter.
Update: not hiding it anymore. https://github.com/lutris/lutris/discussions/6530#discussioncomment-16107836
