Since the 2 comments here have negative votes, I’ll go ahead and say: Good! You need some radical shit happening USA, and AOC is a good start.
Worst part is that for a rather large part of Europe, what she and Bernie want isn’t even that radical.
At least for Scandinavia, they’d be center-left.Just shows how incredibly different we are politically
If we manage to get out of this democratically, it won’t be with one huge sweeping swing all the way to what the rest of the world considers the left. Even something vaguely resembling the left from the perspective of an actually functional country would be an insane first step toward fixing this country.
AOC votes against striking workers, she isn’t any kind of leftist.
the workers asked them to, that’s how cucked labor is in the US
It helps to try to understand what happened and communicate a complete picture rather than harp on a single decontextualized fact.
I heard the same thing about Obama
She’s not even radical. She’s advocating to stop backsliding away from and instead embrace the principles of the New Deal. The signature policy of the most popular president in American history. A policy(set of policies actually) that ushered in a half a century of economic stability and steady growth, which grew the middle class.
The US lifted more people out of poverty than any other nation. Now China holds the record of raising more people out of poverty faster than any nation ever.
“Nobody earns a billion dollars”.
Don’t tell me that doesn’t resonate with everyone.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t.
But does it resonates with enough? The rest can go fuck themselves as badly as they have been fucking us.
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I’m not voting for AOC because I’m voting for AOB, the prototype
I’m holding out for AOEII.
It’s really interesting watching discussions about the trolley problem in abstract vs the problem in praxis. Because the thought experiment is about inaction (letting the runaway train crash into the group of people) on one hand and harm reduction (switching tracks) on the other.
The thing that I find fascinating is that with the thought experiment (basically) everyone says the answer is clear: switch tracks. But in the applied scenario of voting picking the lesser evil somehow stains your hands more than not voting.
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Way too early. The person who is in the lead as a normal primary begins, is NEVER the final nominee.
Uh, Joe Biden was in the lead from the start.
did you fall out of a coconut tree look where we are
Doesn’t change the fact that someone can be - and has been - in the lead as a normal primary began, and still go on to become the final nominee. The battle ahead is tough enough; there’s no point in being so pessimistic that we make up false statistics to feel even more hopeless.
EDIT: Looks like I’m wrong and AOC changed her stance on Israel. Now the whole Democratic Party needs to do the same.
Probably better than Greasy Gavin, but still voted in favor of Israel IIRC.
Oh fuck off, this is how you get Trump 2.0
BlueMaga has convinced themselves that Trump is the result of anyone disagreeing with them ever.
LOL
How quickly people on this thread forget that the American people are sick and tired of funding the genocide while they themselves can’t afford a trip to the grocery store, and maybe it’s an issue Dems should take into consideration since it (arguably) sunk the Harris campaign.
No clue why you’re gettimg downvoted. Sometimes it feels like Lemmy exists in this weird quasi liberal bubble where they think leftist=tankie. Like do the people replyimg to go not understand that the DNC has a record low approval rating as well?
There are a lot of Reddit libs migrating here as that platform enshittifies who haven’t had their awakening yet. They still think they’re left and progressive, or - perhaps more accurately - that the DNC is the progressive, left-leaning choice; when in reality it’s at best a center-right party with an increasing number of obvious incidents of being controlled opposition when it comes to a number of issues (including and especially Israel)
Yeah like whoopsie we almost stopped Trump from spending literally all the money on bombing Iran for basically no fucking reason, but ONE Democrat broke ranks AGAIN guys? Oh, John Fetterman? Again? Oh jeez, well we tried guys, it just wasn’t in the cards. Maybe if you vote Blue no matter who even harder next time we can write a sternly-worded-enough bill to condemn these actions!
Anyway I’m ranting but they need to make that journey. It’s not enough and it never will be, the DNC. The best for now is to use it as a launching platform for actual progressives and leftists.
Yeah but a lot of american people are also zionists so it’s not so simple
Let’s look at the zionist vote, then.
Most of them are republicans. You cannot get their votes. The others are genocide wing democrats. The same wing that’s always telling everyone to vote blue no matter who.
schumer is the top democrat in the country and he’s a rabid zionist. Like yes i agree with you, im strongly antizionist but there’s no candidate in the genral election for people like me, even on this single issue.
mainstream media wants you to think AOC and Tlaib represent the democratic party but they really dont and they have very little influence on what happens in Washington, unfortunately of course.
I’m talking about the voters here, not the legislators.
In case you’ve missed it, there’s a lot of anger against the genocide wing of the party. But yeah, let’s devote ourselves to netanyahu’s slightest whim because schumer.
Yeah and there’s a lot of anger from the genocide wing too, as wrong as it is a ton of people are genocidal including many democrat voters
The ones who are always saying to vote blue no matter who. They can give up on a policy for the very first time ever.
So, trump will win again…
Most of our fellow Americans are massively misogynistic and its been highlighted twice in the last 10 years by the fact that Trump won the presidential election against women. I’m saying this as a massive fan of AOC. I identify pretty strongly with her open aggression towards backwards thinking.
Factually incorrect, as evidenced by the fact that Hillary won the popular vote.
The problem isn’t running women. It’s running women who are unscrupulous and/or shitty at politics. Harris couldn’t even make it out of Iowa in 2016, so it was evidently a stupid call to let our brain-damaged former president anoint her as a successor without a primary.
Beware of ANYONE going around spouting the “we can’t run AOC because WOMEN ALWAYS LOSE! Just look at the LAST TWO TIMES!” bullshit
As if Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris were perfect candidates offering anything more than “imagine how bad Trump would be!”
“The Most Lethal Millitary”
“Nothing will fundamentally change”
“Pokemon Go!-to-the-polls”
I mean come the fuck on.
“Pokemon Go to the polls” was just a silly meme. I think voters wanted somebody to the left of Obama, and Hillary felt like a big step back to the '90s.
Dissing Bernie’s platform didn’t help. One key moment I remember was her saying that Medicare For All was something that would “never, ever happen”. Instead of adapting her platform to win over Bernie’s voters, she just dismissed it completely as foolish pipe dreams. Just really tone deaf and smug about it.
One key moment I remember was her saying that Medicare For All was something that would “never, ever happen”.
I honestly hope it happens in my lifetime. Just for the sheer delight of gloating at centrists that the default is no longer “siphon your paltry amassed wealth to billionaires and then die.”
I think voters wanted somebody to the left of Obama, and Hillary felt like a big step back to the '90s.
Here’s a fact that makes my leftist friends mad at me(since 2008) … Hilary IS and was left of Obama. People saw what they wanted to see in Obama because he is so charismatic. A lot of people hated Hilary because of the constant dragging of Hilary in the media for over 20 years.
I fell for the anti Hilary propaganda. And it wasn’t until she was a serious contender that I started looking deeply into her record. She’s actually pretty amazing. If I ever meet her I will definitely apologize for falling for the bullshit.
She sure seemed to be on the right of Obama during her tenure as Secretary of State. Yes, I know that isn’t an unbiased source, but this isn’t coming out of nowhere. She was buddies with Kissinger. Like I said, this is all stuff that people wanted to leave behind in 2016.
<Sigh>
Secretary of State is a position where you are supposed to represent the agenda of the president. Knowing former secretaries of state and being able to get information from them is an important part of having that job… if you’re a serious person, it is a serious fucking job.
It’s so bizarre to me that people don’t realize what it means to work in these cabinet positions. Or at least what it used to mean. This cabinet is not focused on competence at all, but rather on social media, self aggrandizement and gossiping about and undercutting each other.
Agreed. It’s like people think these candidates were above reproach despite the very obvious flaws.
Centrists are happy to hold back all women in order to stop one woman.
George W Bush once said that if the popular vote mattered he’d campaign in Texas.
No shit it doesn’t matter, but it does demonstrate a flaw in LDF’s point.
Not really. That’s kind of the point of the quote. If the popular vote actually counted it would radically change the way elections are run and campaigned in. There’s no telling how that election would change if the popular vote mattered.
That election is pretty interesting for instance because Hillary made massive mistakes in not campaigning in certain swing States. Or at least campaigning enough. Michigan being the main one. Now maybe that means in a universe in which popular votes mattered she would win. Or maybe it means in a universe where popular votes matter, Trump would campaign in places that he didn’t before and get a lot more votes. The entire concept is altered dramatically by that key fact.
Either way the point is you can’t just assume it would be the same because clearly it would not.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. Have a nice evening.
Aight. Cool. Wanna bet democracy on it?
Always with the platitudes.
You were fine with democracy being flushed down a toilet when Hillary was rigging primaries against Bernie or when Dems sue Greens off the ballot at the state level.
Was I? Cause I’m pretty sure I strongly campaigned for Bernie during the primaries even after Super Tuesday when the race pretty much ended. My voting didnt take place until the 15th and I still put his name on my ballot. Then when the presidential election rolled around I voted for Bernie again as a write-in.
You can try to put me into some nice little predefined box, but I’ve its not going to prove your point. My point is simple. If we for some reason need to run against Trump again in 2028 do you feel confident beyond doubt that swing state voters are going to support AOC or any other female candidate? Cause in case you haven’t learned this yet, unless you live in Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania or Michigan…our votes don’t really matter. And quite a few of those states are pretty rural.
If we for some reason need to run against Trump again in 2028 do you feel confident beyond doubt that swing state voters are going to support AOC or any other female candidate?
Women won senate races in three of the swing states Kamala lost, so clearly gender wasn’t the problem.
I am confident beyond a reasonable doubt that AOC would beat Trump, if only because Trump would be an incredibly weak candidate. I’d love for him to try.
I’m also confident that the Democrats are at risk of losing an entire generation (both in the short and long terms) the longer they keep offering uninspiring candidates and refusing to give any policy concessions to the left, especially those popular with young voters.
Your argument about female senators winning in swing states has the most merit I’ve seen so far. I’ve got to give that too you. But it does worry me that those are elections that are localized to some degree. A national election is going to garner way more negative sentiment from the Bible belt.
In a perfect society I would absolutely love for AOC to be the first female president in 2028. The realist in me understands that if you were to take everything about her and put it into a white male, they would garner more votes and be more likely to win. I care deeply about being able to elect the first female president in history, but I care more about saving the lower and middle class. I don’t care who does it. Just that it gets done and we can start to leave predatory capitalism behind.
BlueMaga loves saying that Democracy is over if they lose the election, then losing the election.
Hilary and Kamala were dogshit candidates.
Hard agree.
Now that people are talking about a progressive woman running, women can’t win. Until such time as Harris announces her candidacy for 2028, then we all must get in line to vote for genocide again.
We weren’t given a choice in the matter when Harris was running. I wanted a primary but didn’t get it. I had the same sentiment when it was rumored Harris would be the nomination. When it was official, I unenthusiastically supported her campaign and put aside my pessimism to avoid another Trump presidency.
And she’s not running now so I’ll appreciate it if you don’t try to pre-emptively lecture me about how I need to vote for genocide again.
Mature people who understand the political system in the US understand that primaries are where you vote your values, general elections are where you vote for least harm/best outcome of severely limited choices.
If you’re not voting in local elections and primaries and pushing your values hard, you are failing at democracy.
Mature people who understand the political system in the US understand that primaries are where you vote your values
Harris won no primaries. Until the party starts running honest primaries, or indeed has them at all in the presidential race, this is just gloating that the party forced a genocidal piece of shit on the voters without their permission.
If you’re not voting in local elections and primaries and pushing your values hard, you are failing at democracy.
I voted in my local runoff yesterday morning. Stop lecturing if you ever figure out how.
We weren’t given a choice in the matter when Harris was running. I wanted a primary but didn’t get it.
We had a primary and Biden/Harris won.
If you’re complaining that you didn’t get a second primary when Biden dropped out, then maybe it would interest you that legally no one but Harris could have taken the significant war chest that the Biden/Harris campaign had on hand. Furthermore, as a term of the deal for Biden to drop out, Harris was not allowed to deviate from ANY of Biden’s positions. This is why she had so much trouble with questions about the genocide. She was not allowed to answer the way she wanted to.
I think it’s more along the lines of Hillary and Kamala were just too meh of a candidate to actually get people out to vote. I think AOC even though generally not as big tent as the previous two will still perform really well because of the amount of billing willing to go out and vote for her.
Nah, if Donnie gets to run for a third term, so does Barrack.
We know that rules only exist for democrats, and that even if they choose to “go low”. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
If we get another centrist dem, yeah.
with the DNC inability to even acnknowledge election autopsy for 2024, i dont have high hopes for her. mark kelly would be a better candidate, and nobody trusts NEWSOME at all, since hes so slimy even before platform neo-nazis on a talk show.
The DNC could have simply said, “We have decided not to publish the results so we don’t give the Republicans ammunition” or something similar, instead Ken Martin decided to communicate like a condescending douche. I can’t imagine Ben Wickler acting like this.
It’s almost as if the plan is to piss off progressives to the point where the old guard is primaried.
I’ll vote for her
due to mysogyny she will have the same problem as hillary and kamala, men wont choose a woman ever, especially a POC.
I think this is a much bigger problem than people want to admit.
