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Democrats and Republicans aren’t actually against each other, they pretend to be two different parties as it is an effective psy-op to keep the populace believing in a Reformist path to change, so we do not pursue a Revolutionary path instead. As long as the populace continues to believe a Reformist path (like voting) is able to save them, the Capitalists can continue doing what ever they want, only Revolution can save us (IE we must save ourselves by overthrowing the Capitalists), and only once the people in general realize this, can Revolution actually succeed. It is also why we must keep pointing out to people how the system is rigged against us, how as long as we live in Capitalism Democracy is a lie and the oppression and exploitation and U.S. bombings will continue.
This “Good” Cop / “Bad” Cop routine has been going on for decades. Both parties are still cops and ACAB.
Just to be clear, Cops being bad is not an inherent property of them in and of itself, but rather Cops serve the State, and in a Capitalist country, the State serves Capital, and so the Cops also serve Capital, but in a Socialist country, such as China, the Cops are completely different as the State actually serves the interest of the overall masses, and so the Cops also by extension.
ACUCAB just doesn’t have the same snap to it, but Under Capitalism is an important distinction indeed. Reminds me of a Parenti quote about why socialist states have to have a significant level of state authority because of constant capitalist incursions and subterfuge.
It’s more inherent than that in most cases. The job attracts power trippers, the culture and standards in most precincts encourages abusive assholes and corruption, and once the cops can cover for each other it becomes self-selecting for abuse. At least in North America, cops are heavily pre-disposed to being bastards, even before the reality of their purpose.
That is an issue, though with that in mind one major difference between Capitalism and Socialism is that Capitalism doesn’t really care if Cops are abusive sacks of shit, so long as they keep serving the interests of Capital, on the other hand, in Socialism the whole point of the system is to best serve the interests and well being of the people in what ever capacity the current level of development of the country can provide, and so while Capitalism let’s Cops fester with power hungry racists, Socialism actively works to root out and remove corruption, finding and kicking out the power abusers.
I remember when they were trying to endorse Mike Bloomberg the republican billionaire.
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The “Founding Fathers” (rich slavers) had set up the “Democracy” (of the rich) with “Checks and Balances” to prevent the “Tyranny of the Majority” (Actual Democracy) precisely so the Capitalist Class (them) would remain in complete control. Considering this, it is very unlikely the modern Capitalist Class would somehow not be aware of the ways their own class has set things up to keep themselves on top and the rest of us underfoot. It is much more likely they know exactly what they are doing up on the stage, that all the real decision making is done behind closed doors, that the Billionaires and Trillionaires get the final say, and that the electoral clown show in the big party tent exists to fool the populace, only different from the start in that they got better at it. I remember when Biden straight up looked like he was having an orgasm in response to Trump “winning the election” as if it’s what he wanted to happen, like say, because it would mean they can get everything they want WITHOUT having to hide the shit they do, and so Trump also functions as a scapegoat, if they get everything the want to just “cast all the blame on Trump” Trump goes off to live in blood soaked luxury, having done his job, then the Democrats swoop in to “save the day”. Such a tactic can only work however if people fall for the clown show and don’t realize that it is the entire Capitalist system itself that is the problem and the only way forward is to overthrow it and replace it with a Socialist system.
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This post is an excellent example of why reading Marxist Leninist Theory should not be treated as optional, there is so much wrong with the post I’m not even sure where to start, and I don’t really have the energy for it either, so unfortunately we’ll just have to leave it at that. (BTW Cowbee has an excellent guide to help you get started Basic and Advanced)
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I’m very well aware of it and have studied it in an academic setting
I don’t wish to be dismissive I simply find it exceedingly hard to believe that in Amerika land of McCarthyism home of the red scare it is possible to achieve anything even close to a proper study of Marxism-Leninism in an academic setting.
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Theory is a guide to action, not a dogma. This is a core tenet of Marxism-Leninism. Theory and practice mutually reinforce each other, truth comes from practice and this informs theory. How have you studied Marxism-Leninism in an academic setting, and what is incorrect about it? What is “missing” from it that a well-rounded view has? Perhaps the academic setting is impressing upon you conclusions friendly to capitalism and dismissive of socialism.
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You’re saying we should Oppose Book Worship? That sounds like a pretty good idea, I’m down with that
This wasn’t intended as an attack and I wasn’t trying to be passive aggressive, I was trying to help. As someone struggling to over come life long crippling social anxiety, I’ve been trying to move from being a lurker to actually posting. But it turns out that participating in discussion takes enormously more energy than just lurking, so I did not put in adequate effort into my attempt to help.
I was overwhelmed trying to parse your comment, I’m still terrible at breaking things down into smaller, easier to process pieces, and so all the bundled up errors in your post was too much for me to try and break down and address, but I still wanted to at least try and help.
I was trying to read the rest of your posts in this thread, but I couldn’t get through them all as the way you look down on people hurts my stomach. Please, we mean no hostility, so stop giving us yours. (thank you in advanced)
A distinction without a difference. There is no need for collusion when you’re moving in the same social circles, meeting the same people, having your campaign funded by the same social class with the same needs and objectives.
And yes, Trump was a mold breaker there, but only as a facade, the reality is not that Trump is “rejecting” neoliberalism, it is that neoliberalism is breaking apart, by its own incoherence, in the US as everywhere else.
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well, we’re at the stage of violent revolution and there’s no point faffing about further
I do believe we are at the stage where this is the only means of change. We’re not doing it because most people are still delusional (or generously, “hopeful”) that we are not, or don’t even think about changing things at all by desperation / capitulation / ignorance.
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Why do you assume they aren’t? Because they can type comments?
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To deny the difference is to deny what makes the spectacle compelling
Really tired of “both sides bad.” Political change should not be moving fast and breaking things.
Right now we have a hole to dig out from. We need to get to the point where we can vote for the people we really want.
By not voting you say that everything is fine and you are okay with the status quo.
Vote for the change we need right now. Do not let our future slip away.
We need to get to the point where we can vote for the people we really want.
You people have actual short term memory loss
How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
-Hunter S Thompson, 56 years ago
This is the most political-history ignorant comment I’ve read in a very long time.
How do you think people have rights?
Yeah like how do you vote for voting rights before you even get them? 🔨
History started with the first election of the USA.
“We need to vote for change and to dig ourselves out from this hole!”
-Proceeds to vote for Democrats, who change nothing, and dig the hole deeper.
“Oh well, my memory will have reset long before the next election comes around, so we can do it all again!”
Political change should not be moving fast and breaking things.
It should absolutely 100% be that when the alternative is genocide and fascism.
The only reason you wouldn’t want to break things right now means you still think there is good in the system. The system is working as intended and absolutely needs to be broken so something better can be made.
Alternatively, there can be the simple recognition that breaking the system that exists will result in a mass casualty event as current systems keeping the masses alive break down, and the resulting collapse will be capitalized on (lol) by your local warlord.
I’m sure the local warlord will be a great bastion of anti authoritarian praxis.
There are already thousands and more dying by the second with the current system. There is already a mass causality event and it will continue to get worse as the current system makes the world less and less inhabitable.
And we don’t have to have a “local warlord” the idea that people can put something better in place then fascism is ironically a right wing talking point. Though I blame the propaganda that has caused us to view our fellow as a enemy instead a comrade. But that’s a whole other point.
Correct on all counts.
And yet, the reality is that the collapse of society will lead to even more casualties. The other reality is that I don’t know of a single collapsed society that became altruistic, and did not devolve into local warlord killing each other.
A mass casualty event? Brother we’ve been in the mass extinction event for years, and every day we don’t destroy the system that created it is another day the odds of the human species surviving the next couple centuries continues to fall towards zero.
Yes, I am certain that your life will begin improving measurably when the food runs out.
Just one more election bro, I know we have The Camps and everyone on earth has organs laden with microplastic and we’ve killed fully one third of the forests and the oceans are turning to acid, but now is not the time for radical change bro
I’m sure your life will (moderately, bipartisanly) improve when the oceanic algae is all dead and you can no longer breathe. At least then you won’t have the air to speak this tired nonsense, and I’ll only have to listen to our gasping coughs as we wait for the harm reduction to kick in.
Yes, I am certain that your life will begin improving measurably when the food runs out.
Revolutions have had a history of dramatically improving living conditions for everyone as soon as the old system is abolished. The Russian revolution ended famine and doubled life expectancy.
Alternatively, there can be the simple recognition that breaking the system that exists will result in a mass casualty event
Revolutions also don’t have to result in violence (think of a mass strike across the entire country that never ends). But when capitalism gets desperate it will start a civil war if that is its only hope to maintain the old system.
And think about the mass suffering caused by mass poverty, genocide, minority oppression, political polarisation, endless war, boring work and the list goes on. If one revolution is all it takes to install a democratic society and fix so many of our problems, I know I’m on board.
Yeah, everyone except the people that end up against the wall.
More often than not, those people aren’t the ones causing the structural problems in society. The really rich people with the power all escape before that point.
Source: my ass
Now you’re just lazily regurgitating Orwell-style fed bullshit about how somehow revolution won’t change anything.
“Everyone except the people that end up against the wall” yeah that’s the point dumbass, the oligarchs cannot be allowed to fuck up the new world too
Yeah, everyone except the people that end up against the wall.
Yes generally peoples living conditions do not improve for people who have been shot dead by a firing squad, since they stop living. Although can you please be more specific, I’m not sure how that is related to our discussion.
More often than not, those people aren’t the ones causing the structural problems in society. The really rich people with the power all escape before that point.
Okay, I’m not sure if that is true or not but I don’t think that is relevant anyway.
you’ve been boiled too slow
What an astute observation! I wouldn’t even describe it as a boil, maybe a light simmer if anything. Because you know what? My life is pretty nice.
So now that we have established that fact, perhaps it would be prudent to consider how you reach the majority of the population that is in my boat (not literally, I mean, when I’m on my boat I’m generally reading a book on my own). But I mean the ones that think like this and don’t read books by Kropotkin.
Because you know what? My life is pretty nice.
Liberals just cutting straight to the heart of what they care about
Yeah, no shit. I do things to improve my life. If you don’t, then you’re either lying or an actual example of capitalist caricatures of leftism, just looking for a handout.
Edit: And if you’re not acting to improve your life and the lives around you, what’s the purpose of revolution? Action for the sake of Action? That’s point #3 on Umberto Eco’s list of the 14 common features of fascism.
Your life is nice because of the death and destruction of those who your system deems to be lesser. If you can’t be motivated to change things because you can’t see the issue with the cost of your comfort, you’re going to learn some very hard lessons once people you thought were on your side start fighting you.
yep indeed
In order to effectively break the system you need organized Revolution, and for that it must be supported by the masses, and for mass support it must help people, meaning the Revolution must be building something like a state within itself to support it’s own Revolution, so when it is big enough, when it finally has overthrown the Capitalists, it will already be prepared to take over as a governing body. The only chaos then is in the Revolution itself, but a small moment of bloody violence in plane sight is nothing compared to the massive death, destruction, torture and despair, that the system does constantly out of sight, hidden away (as much as it even can hide it), that the small by comparison but more in sight and quicker violence of a Revolution which will finally end it.
Okay. Well, when this glorious mythic Revolution begins, we will see what happens. Until the second coming of the Revolution, were stuck in reality. Although it seems some of us might be stuck is a certain level of Revolution Revolution worship.
Revolution.
See, because the anglosphere is drenched in leftover christian thought, and because liberals fundamentally have a magical view of the world and society, you see revolution as something akin to the rapture: some grand external event to be prayed for and waited on. Meanwhile, since communists have a scientific view of the world and society, we see revolution as a machine to be built. What you’re doing is the equivalent of walking up to a shipyard and going “Pffft, good luck magically manifesting your glorious ships, idiot.” Just a fundamental misunderstanding of how history develops. Movements just spontaneously arise at full strength out of nowhere in the movies and video games we all grew up on, so of course reality must work the same way, right?
You want to talk about “we’re in reality”? Yeah, we’re in the reality where the working class in many countries have already achieved the building of a revolution. That’s a concrete fact, not some article of faith you can pessimistically handwave away to justify your continued murderous apathy. We live in reality, so roll up your sleeves and get to work with the rest of us.
Okay. Well, when all your hard work leads to actual tangible results that are better than the status quo, then we’ll talk.
Until then, less blabbing and more sleeve rolling
“Build a revolution for me and then I’ll show up after”
Consumer brain is a disease on par with Alzheimer’s. You’ll never be anything but a dead weight to any social organization with that attitude. Look around yourself, opportunities to build have never been more abundant. I’ve helped create a recurring mutual aid event in the community where we exhange food, clothing and services, much of it homegrown and handmade. We have regular self defense training and educational lectures from people of different expertise. We’re connected with the local ICE watch org, a growing anti data-center movement and Palestinian orgs for miles. We are beginning to host study sessions and draw up outlines for political education. We even have a direct member with a shot at city council, which would make our job even easier than it is now, which, I gotta tell you, is pretty easy these days. People are fucking done with all of it.
All of this and more can be yours. This is what I have achieved in less than one year of really, actively studying and trying after having spent the previous decade as a depressed addict. The only thing holding you back is this learned helplessness, this ingrained idea that someone else has to do it first because you are incapable.
It wont just magically happen on it’s own, if we only wait for it we are more likely to see the inside of a US death camp as the Capitalist rulling class is getting scared and desperate and have been laying the foundation for the people to be moved further into Fascism for a long time. It is possible only with our willingness to organise together within one or more (cooperating) Revolutionary Parties to learn and use Marxist Leninist Theory to slowly awaken Class Consciousness within the population and prepare the way for a successful Revolution supported by the newly awakened masses. This has succeeded many times already, even though the USSR unfortunately collapsed, Cuba, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Vietnam, Laos, and the People’s Republic of China are still standing against all the Capitalist Imperialist hostile odds, and China in particularly is more technologically and scientifically advanced then the US by now, and have provided enormous improvement to the lives of everyone they get involved with. It is why the Capitalist Imperialist “Core Countries” (Global North) are so desperate to smear them with endless lies and nonsense not based in reality or evidence, and the CIA/MI6/MOSSAD assert their control and spread such misinformation via “news” (Propaganda is basically just another name for this give or take), Hollywood, Social Media AI bots, Youtube algorithmic control, and even our very Video Games (do people believe Call of Duty is politically neutral).
With all of that they shape our very view of reality to make us support things against our own interests, and to avoid learning anything real about the countries that threaten Capital.
Edit: I was a little confusing about the point on propaganda, I mean that it is more or less another word for news, mostly involving the handing out of pamflets or leaflets, it has been twisted into being the same as saying “misinformation” very likely as a way of discrediting bottom up, glass roots style movements (what the working class has access to as a way of communicating among the populace) while leaving the Capitalists corporate “news” reputationally intact.
Propaganda was originally a branch of the Catholic Church, so the connotation is that it’s as full of crap and dishonesty as apologetics.
I don’t know about the history of the Church, but I do know that the word has been used for the handing out of legitimate and accurate information on a paper medium as a way of spreading awareness when one is censored by the State and cannot use the normal channels, and it has been used this way for a long long time before the use of it to mean the same as “lies” was popular.
Genuinly curious. With your plan to vote for the democrats to dig out of the hole the US has dug itself, how will you be able to vote for the party that you want to vote for later?
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Dam can one ask a question without geting barated for speling mistakes? I’ll refere you to some resources about how revolution might make things better but I’m not sure if you interested in engaging with a proper conversation atm.
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What an insane sentence to put in the mockery font
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What’s the common sense? Is it “we must vote, literally sign our approval by name, for a genocide?”
It’s common sense getting lost to “GeNoCiDe or nothing!” As offered by idiots…
Genuinely indecipherable, enigma-like
It’s been a multi year mockery of common sense while even thinking of discussing common good being screamed out of the room by folks screaming over listening. It’s been common and weird while certain folks lean into it…
There’s been more democratic socialists elected this year than ever.
Which support genocide! https://youtu.be/pKAYLj1TpRI
DSA is a freaking joke
Yeah I find this push for the US to take arms against the US army kind of a weird one at this point. It’s not going to happen overnight and the US is fucking huge. Like, do you all realize how geographically BIG the US is? Do you have any understanding of the difficulties we face in mounting any sort of physical resistance to this shit? You’re solidly delusional if you think complaining at individuals on Lemmy is going to spark a physical revolution here.
Okay, counter point. Why complain at people on Lemmy then for pointing out facts? You kind of make it apparent this way that this is about your world view being challenged.
If you acknowledge that you have to do more then vote and America is not a democracy. It means you have wasted you time and your life on people who literally cannot care about you with the way the system is.
We are not voting our way out of fascism. We are not fixing a system working as intended.
They could at least stop actively supporting it and cheering it on, but that’s too “divisive” 🙄
Yeah US citizens on Lemmy really celebrate it /s
Lmao don’t @ me on this if you aren’t openly rude to any military or police involved person.
You think all 350 million people in the US worship cops and military?
lol don’t @ you - you replied to my comment.
Are you friends with anyone who works on military projects, in the “defense” industry, is in the military or has served in the military in the past (same question for police)?
Do you attend events that include “thanking the troops”? Do you allow your kids to go on field trips that involve the military or cops? Do you go to war museums? Participate in or support Cadet programs?
Have you filed an objection to selective service (if you fall into the demographic that it applies to? Are you rude to recruiters? Do you protest recruitment offices if they open in your community?
If yes, then congrats on your gold star for the bare minimum. If not then maybe you and the other the 350 million Americans can ask themselves why they put their social comfort over human rights .
(And yes I do these things in my own country)
Often, yes
You know the take is factually correct but you still dismiss it because you want treats for yourself and you are willing to compromise on US imperialism for it.
Nah, I agree with the take. I disagree that fighting in the comment section against people who are more aware than the average us citizen is going to produce the results you want.
You are literally fighting against people who are calling out US imperialism.
lol I’m not fighting, I’m having a discussion.
You’ve taken the position that anything except shouting about revolution is simping for the US. There’s no middle ground for talking with you apparently.
Wait, so being in favor of imperialism is taking a position, but being against imperialism is fighting people?
“You’re just fighting, I’m simply having a discussion!”
If you seriously support having a Revolution in the US then reading Theory is not optional, there are errors upon errors upon errors that people inevitably fall into if they do not have a correct understanding of the world, it’s history, and how society, economy, the state, Capitalism and so on actually work, which kills a Revolution and result in horrible failure. Cowbee (I think, or maybe it was yogthot or how ever the name is spelt) has a good beginners reading list you can work through, at the least you should read works by Marx, Engels, and Lenin at a minimum.
Revolution, or invasion, is the only solution for the US. People outside don’t believe in people inside’s willingness to make the former happen. The latter is the retribution waiting to blow in their faces.
I wouldn’t vote for a republican even for a dog shit picker upper position!
Coalition building is required in any free society, and guess what, non-participation isn’t absolution.
“We gotta coalition build with these nazis”
Liberals in the United States :
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Democrats arming genocide is now “Russian propaganda”, I am so happy to see the blue maga conspiracy world crumble on contact with reality, you smug racist morons truly deserve every ounce of the confusion and impotent rage that your self-inflicted future has in store for you.
How morons pretend voting happens…
Lemmy.ml “Don’t hate the west while looking past Uyghurs in China” Challenge (Impossible)
can provide some evidence of this genocide that doesnt originate from cia ?
The totally real invisible genocide in China folks, brought to you by literally the exact same government that just spent two years telling you there was no genocide in Gaza
We haven’t looked past the Uyghurs, actually. In fact we’ve looked very closely.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
Genocide is more than just killing, it’s the deliberate destruction of a people including its culture and institutions.
(a) Show me the Uyghur bodies
(b) Show me the serious bodily or mental harm
(c) Show me the conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part
(d) Show me the measures intended to prevent births within the group
In accordance with China’s affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.
(e) Show me the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group
violent incidents in East Turkestan
I wonder where those Salafi terrorists came from? Oh right: the US, UK, and Israel organized, funded, and trained them, as they did Al Qaeda and the various flavors of ISIS/ISIL, including the “moderate rebels” that just took over Syria. The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent.
Going to start ranting about white genocide in South Africa next?
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That’s how you’ll get President JD Vance.
