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I remember when I was a toddler, the neighbor toddler girl hit me in the face with her shoe. When I hit her back, I got in a lot of trouble and was told not to hit girls.
Would have been a lot more sensible if they said “no one should be hitting each other”
Yes. I’m sorry that happened to you, it’s not fair.
That’s a faux pas, you’re were supposed to rape her, then get forcibly married as the good book dictates, and only then you can hit her back
I’m curious how old you are. Millennial?
Yep! I’ve moved up into the 35-45 bracket on surveys and I do not appreciate the reminder of my growing age.
Hah, suck it! I’m still holding on to the 25-35 bracket and that’ll NEVER CHANGE NEXT YEAR!
I am older gen Z and I got a bit of this (don’t hit girls) stuff in school but nothing as stupid as you described.
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This meme, while correct, demonstrates a misunderstanding of the argument.
“A man is not allowed to strike a woman, not even in self defense.” We live in a society where some version of this is drilled into every male child’s brain from a young age.
Nobody making this argument in good faith is gleefully responding to “equal rights for women” with “so I get to hit women”, because the fuckheads who want to hit women aren’t waiting for an excuse and are not mentally healthy.
Those who are making this argument in good faith could do with much better phrasing though. I prefer “Equal rights should include equal privilege.” If self defense against a female asaultant is their only concern, then it sounds like they just want to hit women. There are other issues that can and should be addressed, like a man not being able to pick up their own child or nibling from school without dirty looks or potentially having the cops called on him.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand perfectly well that in terms of privilege inequality, women have it worse. Women aren’t taken seriously by their doctors, or by the law, or in most contexts really. Women get paid less to do the same work. If a woman pursues her dreams instead of getting married and having kids, that’s sad. Women should not have to deal with any of this bullshit!
What I don’t know is how to wrap this up with a concise tldr without sounding like a whiny moid.
You have a point; there shouldn’t be any excuse for assaulting somebody. The patriarchal standards hurt us all and make the world less safe.
Also, you’re not a “moid.” Fuck that word
Sorry I’m old as fuck, what is a “moid”?
If you smush “female android” together you get “femoid”, and then removing the fe- you shorten it to “moid” for the male version.
It’s obviously derogatory and it’s meant to mean something akin to “someone with [all looks and] no brain”.
I’m actually surprised Urban Dictionary doesn’t have a better definition of femoid, but they do of moid.So bimbo and himbo respectively?
Bimbo/himbo are about types of people with aesthetics and cultural signifiers. Moid/femoid are just slurs against men or women that a person of the opposite gender doesn’t like
Yeah himbo doesn’t really have the same bite. A lot of women even like a good himbo. I overall prefer a little intellectualism but I can go for a good himbo too. I’ve mostly heard it associated with Brendan fraisers roles in his youth (George of the jungle / the mummy) It gives golden retriever energy or one of those gym rats that’s always telling the other dudes their muscles look great.
Patrick Warburton, particularly in voice acting roles. Kronk is peak himbo.
The elephant in the room is ‘why the fuck are we gendering robots’.
We gendered warships centuries ago. We love gendering things.
My thinking is that it originated from 4chan, and over there they also use the word “robot” derogatory. And the leap from “robot” to “android” isn’t that far fetched.
Who knows, could also be inspired by Austin Powers’ “fembots”.Fembots at least fit the joke. Austin Powers was a story of a misogynistic sex-hound from the 60s trying to make it in a (comparably) much more equitable world, and Dr. Evil, fully aware of Austin’s weaknesses, used the fembots to deceive him.
Masterful joke.
Femoid is just fucking stupid.
a moid is an asshole misogynistic male. The term stems from “femoid” which is a misogynistic term referring to women in general, usually said by moids who are also involuntarily celibate (incels).
I prefer to not call those people moids. The whole term is toxic and does more to reinforce gender roles than oppose it. It’s not worth using at all.
I take no issue with calling toxic people toxic pejoratives. I’ll use whatever term I think will offend the target the most, because fuckem.
My experience has been that language signifies specific attitudes, attracting people with those attitudes. The type of people that “moid” attracts are more likely to view men as not just cultural problematic or practically dangerous, but as people unworthy of equal respect. The thing about people who dehumanize a large social group like that is that they are usually willing to dehumanize people for other reasons, including people they simply dislike. Those sort are rarely fun to hang out with.
The people who use that term also tend to have more regular exposure to people with other awful attitudes. People who are casually transphobic, racist, and “edgy” in a way that goes beyond jokes. In short, 4chan/Twitter regulars who would rather expose themselves to hateful brainrot than hang out in “coddling safe spaces” that aren’t astroterfed by Nazis.
Basically, toxic memes attract toxic people, and unlike pepe, there is no good buried under that term worth reclaiming. There are plenty of insults for shitty men that aren’t just genderswapped misogyny.
You are a better person than I am.
I thank you for this knowledge.
I am disgusted to know it.
I apologize on behalf of my gender.
Don’t apologize for things outside your control. As a species, we are still trying to outgrow the tribalism, aggression, and desire for dominance that helped our ancestors survive. Stand firm against the sophists, they exploit those old instincts rather than encourage us to rise above them.
You shouldn’t have to apologize because other people in your demographic suck.
to expand on this, I used the term moid in my original comment because I could see how my entire argument could be oversimplified to “not all men are assholes”, which is something moids say all the time when women complain about men.
Patriarchy is just king harem culture or horse herd dynamics applied to a society that no longer fits that dynamic.
Women get paid less to do the same work.
They don’t. They really don’t. Comparisons that suggest they do don’t compare “the same work” - they typically compare the median male and female total earnings which conceals a lot behind an assumption that men and women are identical aside from total pay. Once you start adjusting for things like role, industry, work hours, geography, seniority, etc the gap shrinks to nearly nothing and in some demographic cases (young, urban, single and childless for example) even flips the other way.
What flips it back though is then going deeper and asking why women are contained to certain job titles (usually with less pay) also, women don’t get paid equally in the work place when you consider any job that ever has an option for wage rises, because typically they never get them, or if they do they get a quarter of the rise against a man asking. They typically get passed over for promotions, over men, that counts as wage loss, they’re not less qualified, just passed over because woman. They did a blind test on orchestra applicants, and hid them behind a curtain so the people hiring couldn’t see gender, and then all of a sudden more women were being chosen, when previously that was not the case. Look at any male dominated industry (which typically has higher pay) and ask yourself why women aren’t equally populated there. All of that counts. And more! I think there’s like a set of steak knives too, or something.
They did a blind test on orchestra applicants, and hid them behind a curtain so the people hiring couldn’t see gender, and then all of a sudden more women were being chosen, when previously that was not the case.
Having seen that and considered it an inspiration, a public service department in Australia tried the same thing and then hit pause on it because it turned out that not being able to consider the gender of applicants led to fewer women being chosen which was the opposite of their goal: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-trial-to-improve-gender-equality-failing-study/8664888
There’s multiple effects. Its mostly just life “choices”
having the capacity to get pregnant needs to be controlled for in those studies.
Yes hence why ““choices””
The CONSAD report (one of the more thorough ones done as far as considering and adjusting for various other influences that aren’t simply sex discrimination but also aren’t equal between the sexes) actually considered career interruption from having children to have one of the biggest impacts. Not working for weeks to months has long term effects regardless of cause, and one of the most common reasons for that happening for women is having a kid.
Women also tend to work less hours/week in general which was another huge impact (both because that’s time being paid for, some of which is overtime, and also because it can influence future progression) - the standard of describing the “wage gap” in terms of total earnings rather than hourly earnings explicitly hides the effect of hours worked and I can’t imagine that’s by chance since it’s a major factor.
Complete bullshit. Women-dominated careers like teaching and social work are heavily undervalued while male-dominated ones are far better compensated, and women are still discriminated against in hiring.
No one says you can’t hit a woman in self defense, besides very stupid people deliberately trying to portray themselves as victims.
Maybe not where you live but many cultures do teach that. Not fighting back when a man attacks you is a sign of cowardice and weakness. Fighting back when woman attacks you is a sing of cowardice and weakness. If you never heard that you live under a rock.
That’s what my dad told me. However, he was a very stupid person who deliberately tried to portray himself as a victim, so I guess your point still stands.
I’ve witnessed many instances of exactly that being celebrated. “How can she slap?” is great example.
The argument usually goes something like “okay a woman is beating on me I’m expected to just stand there and take it because if I retaliate at all I’m the aggressor somehow” like the whole “HOW CAN SHE SLAP?!?” Video where dude has like 20 Indian men come beat the fuck out of him for retaliating
If someone is beating on you, you should take the minnimal required action to make the beating stop which normally is just leaving but sometimes can including hitting or stabbing or shooting back.
But you never “get to” hit them just like you never “get to” be rescued from a burning car. It’s not a privilege, it’s a last resort you hope you never need and the day that you do need it is a sad, dark day.
The essential point is simply that what counts as minimal or reasonable force is entirely, and completely differently judged by society at large, including other women, when a woman does it to a man or vice versa.
Yes, use minimal. But also, be consistent about what you consider minimal. A bunch of people, feminists even, would be totally fine with a woman physically assaulting (slapping) a man if he says something bad to her. The same people would never allow a man to do the same, no matter what the woman says.
would be totally fine with a woman physically assaulting (slapping) a man if he says something bad to her
Yeah well those people are idiots. And also this feels like a strawman. It is obvious that walking away is a lesser action than hitting someone, and it is obvious that walking away would cause the verbal abuse to ‘stop’ in the sense that you would no longer hear it.
A bunch of people, feminists even, would be totally fine with a woman physically assaulting (slapping) a man if he says something bad to her. The same people would never allow a man to do the same, no matter what the woman says.
What a lovely strawman you’ve constructed to bash feminists.
Look at the general Internet. The fact that you don’t personally believe it doesn’t make it a straw man. Go find any video of a woman slapping a man for speaking disrespectfully and read the comments under it. The person you replied to is describing a real thing that many people really clearly believe,even if theyd never agree with it when phrased the way they said it.
straw man noun
: a weak or imaginary opposition (such as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted
They literally conjured up imaginary groups of people that are supposedly fine with it and then attacked feminists using that argument.
It’s a perfect example of a strawman argument.
Nope. They literally referred to a very common phenomenon that you choose to believe is a straw man because that doesn’t require you to examine your belief in a popular narrative.
I’ll say again: you not believing it doesn’t make it imaginary.
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That shit was so infuriating.
He almost got killed! To make it even more bizarre, the assailants were all yelling insults about the guy’s sister, like “Your sister is a whore!” Apparently, if you want to insult somebody in India, you say bad things about their sister.
“son of a bitch” and “son of a whore” are common insults in a lot of languages (hoerenzoon, су́ка блять) so I guess you insult someone through their mum in many places as well
I’ve seen women hit men as a form of flirting
I had a FWB years ago who would do that up until the day where I wasn’t able to stop the response reflex and punched her right in the tit. Felt kinda bad since it wasn’t exactly consensual, but we did worse than that regularly, so it wasn’t a big deal.
She’d still do it periodically cuz she liked getting punched in the tit, but that was at least negotiated 🤣
I mean, it’d work on me
My brother’s SO does this to him all the time, it feels so gross to me.
I hope most people can tell the difference between a punch which is playful and a punch which is intended to cause serious harm.
Yes, but there are women out there who think because you’re a guy they can hit you as hard as they like. It’s done playfully, but actually it still hurts and isn’t a fun interaction. If you ask them to stop, they’ll usually call you a pussy or a crybaby or some variant.
That isn’t flirting. That’s bullying.
Unless it’s Goku, in which case it’s kinda both?
I mean the whole thing of “a man should never hit a woman” suddenly sounds a lot more valid when you morph it into “a strong person should never hit a weak person”. Like if you have a physical advantage over somebody else, don’t abuse it.
idk i think ppl shouldnt hit other ppl unless it’s with consent or in self defense/defense of others? even if someone is “weaker” they shouldnt hit someone “stronger” without a good reason.
Yeah, otherwise you assume a physically smaller/weaker person cannot be an abuser. Which is plain wrong.
I feel like that sounds great, but what if somebody calls you like a racial slur or something? There are absolutely non-violent acts that I think would be worthy of a slap in the face.
Why?
Society is better if people think randomly yelling racial slurs might get them popped in the jaw.
Is it? Afaik teaching people through fear isn’t as effective as other methods, but if you can show me some research suggesting otherwise I’m open to looking it over and changing my mind
Oh, this isn’t about teaching, it’s about restraining. Nobody who isn’t either a child or a bigot needs to be taught why you shouldn’t go around screaming slurs. The more people that think someone will pop them one if they say wildly bigoted things in public, the better.
If you have any evidence that randomly saying slurs in public somehow leads to a less bigoted society you could share that. But I’m pretty sure it just leads to the acceptance of bigotry.
In what world did I suggest that’s what I want. Are you capable of considering there are other methods to achieve the goal we are both pursuing without encouraging the use of violence over people saying offensive shit?
People who’ve never been bullied will never understand this. People who have will never need it explained.
False dichotomy. Rather assumptive, too, dontcha think
No, I don’t think. I know from a lifetime of experience.
Literally nobody who has survived real bullying will tell you to ignore it or to walk away or to do anything other than do your best to make them understand that the cost of targeting you is too high.
Because there is only one language bullies understand.
Strong/weak people of any gender shouldn’t hit other people. But if you choose to start a fight, don’t be surprised when the other person decides to play along.
“Start shit, get hit” is a phrase to live by, because you can’t assume someone is going to take your abuse without giving a little back.
also like, if a stranger starts fighting me, I have no idea how far they’re gonna go. It doesn’t matter if they’re just tryna throw a light punch or w/e, I’m gonna assume my life is in danger and will act accordingly. Anyone willing to fight a stranger is incredibly unstable and dangerous as a default, regardless of gender.
I really like this edit <3
Never thought to phrase it that way, imma keep that one
How about “don’t hit people”? Being weak doesn’t warrant not being an abuser or a threat.
I like, “don’t start none, won’t be none.” Covers pretty much every situation.
But in that same vein the weaker person shouldn’t antagonize the stronger person without expecting an appropriate response.
It’s like an argument I always had with my ex. Women claim they’re afraid of men being violent towards them then go out of their way to antagonize all the men around them and then act shocked and act like they’re the victim when the men around them react to their antagonizing.
You can’t have it one way on a two lane road
No if someone is attacking you, you defend yourself. Don’t punch back full strength, measure your blows.
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Also, why do people get into arguments over this to begin with? On the mens side specifically?
Like has it ever occured to them that maybe if you treat eachother right and with dignity that it won’t come to violence?
I get that people dissagree and even get a little grumpy at eachother sometimes, that’s human. But ffs, what are you 12?
Because it gets drilled into most boy’s heads from a very young age that you are never to strike a girl, not even in self defense. Violence by women against men gets a pass to a degree that’s almost ridiculous, including sexual violence - though with sexual violence it’s baked into the systems and discussions around it to the point that I can actually find you quote from people involved with researching or dealing with sexual violence being pretty explicit about the double standard and treating it as obvious.
That’s a lie, no boy ever gets told he can’t defend himself.
“You just don’t hit girls” is at face value a statement about offense only. But underlying it also translates to “just stand there and take it”.
I don’t know if it’s a generational thing. I’m around my 40’s and I’ve always heard/interpreted it in that direction/sentiment.
But again, I’m not even making a case on either side of that. The direction should be deescalation through meaningfull dialogue.
I don’t know if it’s a generational thing. I’m around my 40’s and I’ve always heard/interpreted it in that direction/sentiment.
I’m wondering about that too, since I’m around that same general age bracket and that was definitely the way it was instilled in boys in my community when I was growing up - You never hit a girl, under any circumstances. If she starts it, you stand there and take it or maybe try to walk away if you can but you absolutely do not retaliate.
That one’s fun when paired with the idea that you should resolve bullying by standing up to the bully when the bully is a girl and she’s throwing books at your head several times a week. No right answer. Ask me how I know. At least it stopped after a few weeks after I spent a week in the hospital for something unrelated - I think she got bored and moved on to another target while I was gone.
If the assaulting side was reasonable this would work.
The problem is that people give the assaulting side more of a pass when it’s between men. The whole “boys will be boys/men can be rough with each other” mentality enables the violence at a systemic level.
They also tend to give it a pass when it’s woman on man battery. Same with rape.
Men can’t be vulnerable, which definitely fucks a lot of them up
Not just that, but many people believe that a man inherently can’t be a victim of a woman because men are statistically more likely to be the abuser (and those statistics aren’t super accurate because men under report for the reason you stated). Or because men are physically stronger.
There is significant overlap between those people, and the ones who think that all women are being raped when they have sex with a man, because patriarchy. It’s almost funny how sexist that belief is.
There is significant overlap between those people, and the ones who think that all women are being raped when they have sex with a man, because patriarchy
I don’t think the “women get raped when sex with man” camp is that strong today. Far more people, both men and women, are casually cruel to men and look down on them being vulnerable.
Legally in most parts it’s considered battery, which is worse.
Yes, assault can be as much as only threatening to hit someone.
In the state of IL, to even threaten is considered assault. Meaning, you can’t say, “I’m about to hit you.” In many other states, assault is any impediment of one’s volition. Any use of force is battery, which is why the two are often paired together, and you can get charged with assault and battery.
Just getting in before the equal rights and equal lefts chud-brigade turn up.
The correct question is: “So you’re fine getting drafted?”
The correct question is: “So you’re fine getting drafted?”
No one should be drafted.
It works both ways, don’t worry.
No one is.
I simply do not believe this conversation ever happened
definitely not irl
A child (girl) kept single legging me at a party. I wrestle and she doesn’t. She thought it was funny. I played along with the silliness hopping around and connecting my foot to her leg like I would defend a single leg. I encouraged her to learn to wrestle. Democratize violence to protect from bullies.
Contact sports are so good for kids, provided that it’s safe and properly supervised of course. Children need to play-fight. Adults need it too, I guess.
Single legging? you mean kicking?
Equal rights, equal fightsOr how about we don’t start fights with people. That’s called assault.
I would never.
This woman must be a lawyer cos she knows law
This is the kind of lines I wish I had ready when people say dumb shit to me
what do you mean assaulting is illegal? these woke normies are running roughshod in this country and with this economy - this is not going to end well!
