- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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Most compelling argument I’ve seen for voting mattering is that rich people are spending a ton on advertising / campaign funds / etc. Follow the money, and if Musk is dropping half a billion to get more shitty republicans elected, then clearly it matters and both sides are not the same.
rich people spend a lot on Dems as well though. If your issue is corporate interests, then you likely don’t have any candidate to vote for.
Think for a second. Do you want Trump and Steven Miller, the little Nazi fuck face to hold all the power or not.
Don’t pout. Don’t whine. Think!
At the end of the day, it’s monied interests that are pulling their strings too. Do you just dislike how crass these particular puppets are, or do you hate all puppets? If we’re talking about the groups holding power, none of them are in the US govt.
I do dislike how crass how these puppets are. I have a few other other words to describe them.
I mean, sure, but those monied interests are in favor of secret police and mass surveillance. The other monied interests seem at least moderately sane. Like, I’m not gonna dome Mark Cuban or anything, but he’s a significantly less shitty person than Musk or Zuck. Andrew Carnegie built a shit-ton of libraries. I’d rather have us all involved in making those decisions, but I’ll take a barely-benevolent billionaire over the a sadistic dystopian nightmare one any day.
Andrew Carnegie was a massive asshole who paid for union busters to kill people. Cuban will also gladly lead you to a sadistic dystopian nightmare.
Jfc honestly I sometimes think this country deserves everything that’s happening to it. You’re seriously sitting here trying to tell me “Oh but it’s okay because it’s the good billionaires that are buying my politicians!” There are no good billionaires. It is fundamentally impossible to be a good person and obtain a billion dollars.
I didn’t say Carnegie wasn’t a massive asshole. You’re purposefully misreading my statements here.
It takes all of maybe an hour to go vote. The current administration is literally secret policing people off the streets and letting them rot and die in horrendous conditions. That’s likely very likely to stop now, but we’ll see.
The reality is that you’re just too intellectually lazy to investigate the differences between the parties. It’s not great that the choices are center-right and far-right, but center-right is objectively better than far-right if you’re a left-winger and not an accelerationist. Your lack of voting has a measurable, negative impact on the lives of other people, and you know it.
Yes, that’s exactly what he wants, that’s what he’s being paid for.
But Republicans are way blatant on their road to fascism. Every Republican winning term will achieve like 4 terms worth of Democrat wins of policies that benefits them.
okay, but is your issue the path to fascism, or how blatant certain parties are with their embrace of it? because in reality, many of the Democrats who will win today will still fall in line with their Republican colleagues when it comes to issues like healthcare access for trans people, as well as funding for ICE and wars in the middle east. They’ll just be less rude than their colleagues while they do it.
So what do you want people to do?
for one, people shouldn’t be assuming that any critique of their oligarchy is the result of foreign agents. treating a problem first requires recognition. Part of that recognition is realizing that the US fell to fascism a long time ago, and that both major parties maintain an illusion of democracy.
for two, people should keep working to support political outsiders who are genuinely interested in doing good. I’m watching El-Sayed’s Michigan race very closely, for example, and would certainly recommend anyone living in Michigan to vote in that race.
and for three, people should still work to demonstrate when a candidate is unacceptable. Josh Turek is currently running for senate in Iowa, and he fucking sucks. If he is elected, it will show the Democratic party at large that throwing trans lives under the bus is an effective electoral strategy, and the party will shift further right. You absolutely should not “Vote Blue No Matter Who,” because electing someone like him is honestly even worse than electing a Republican. Having him lose sends the opposite message to the Dems, that selling out trans people will not win elections. Same with anyone accepting AIPAC money, don’t vote for them. If you want to see change within a party, part of that is hammering home that they will not get to win elections unless they start meeting your demands.
I don’t have a horse in this race but this
Having him lose sends the opposite message to the Dems
seems to have stopped working at large. The idea is correct, but the result would most likely not be an expected one
Pay attention in the lead-up to the primaries as well, perhaps?
I hope you’re not a troll depicted in the post. The difference this time is there is now a lot more progressives running and gaining support and popularity to usurp corporate Democrats. Besides, the Republicans did themselves a nice job shooting their own foot with how blatantly corrupt and incompetent they have been.
“A lot more” is pure copium lmao. There are a handful, and their races have been fun to watch! I’m personally very excited for the results of El-Sayed’s Michigan race. There are still plenty of corporate Dems running this year though, hoping that because the Republicans have been so blatant in their corruption, people will vote for anyone else. Iowa’s Turek, for example, is a corporatist piece of shit who will gladly work with Republicans to kill trans people. If you live in Michigan, you absolutely should vote for El-Sayed. If you live in Iowa, you absolutely should not vote for Turek.
Anyway you’ve already called me a foreign actor so w/e, don’t listen to sane and rational talking points because they deconstruct the simple view of American “democracy” you have.
Mate, it’s easy to look up how much the parties received by donations from billionaires in this election. Honestly, I thought Lemmy of all people would know this. It’s even all over social media how much Elon Musk alone spent in this election than George Soros did in his lifetime.
You weren’t initially clear about what you’re comment is about. The cynicism of your first post did not distinguish this time that there is now more progressive Dems that ran and won than corporate Dems that remain. That should be a cause for optimism than scepticism.
Not true in a lot of primaries. At other times you will have to organize a candidate which is part of doing more than just voting.
Musk is a gigantic Nazi POS. I can’t say this about the CEO of Target or whatever.
you can’t? did you just miss the part where Target tried to sell multiple different racist costumes this Halloween?
If you think any of the multibillionaire CEOs who are bribing your elected officials aren’t the scum of the fucking earth, I have a bridge to sell you. Musk is the loudest. That doesn’t mean he’s the biggest piece of shit.
Target was probably a bad example, I stopped paying any attention to Target when they caved instantly on DEI back in like Jan 2025.
And I used to buy from there like 2-3 times a week, easy.
I mean, it doesn’t really matter what example was picked. There are no good billionaires.
A lot but not a lot when compared how much is going towards Republicans.
billions are going to both parties. if you’re able to meaningfully differentiate between five billion and six billion dollars, I’m certain you live in a different tax bracket than I do.
Statistically, the Republican party receive way more donations from billionaires. You’re just a troll at this stage. I’m sure the handler of your handler is among those donors.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
It’s easy to Google how much donations both parties received from billionaires in this election.
Jesus, sometimes Lemmy is brain dead. It is though there is incentive to malign the Democrats…
If voting didn’t matter, they wouldn’t try so hard to stop folks from doing it. There are different forms of corruption. Traditionally in the US for example, the actual counting of votes (prior to e-voting) is very accurate and voter fraud is very low but alot of effort is spent on preventing people from voting: laws that bar felons from voting coupled with law enforcement efforts that disproportionately target black people for felony arrests and prosecution is a good example. Other tactics are to limit the options people actually have when voting for and to sideline politicians who slip past gatekeepers either by sabotaging their campaigns in the news cycle or minimizing their effectiveness in congress if actually elected: committee appointments have incredible outsized power within the US congress.
Do you think one citizen one vote would address many of the evils - redistricting, etc.?
I wasn’t aware there were any citizens in the US who got more than one vote unless you’re referring to the people who get zero votes.
Daily reminder~ bOtH sIdEs aren’t the same, but they are bOtH anti-union, pro-billionaire, and pro-corporate.
Thank you! You’ve been a wonderful audience.
p.s. we get one year to say this freely, after that we will be told that we are clearly spies and/or bots working for Russia posting to influence the election and stop voting. Every election. Forever.
I love how they’re all smug and sure about it. They have no idea how silly they look, shhh it will be our little secret
If they’re all pro-billionaire, why are the billionaires spending so much money supporting one side?
They are spending money on both sides.
AIPAC spent $60M on the Michigan primary alone. George and Alex Soros dropped a full $100M this election cycle. Crypto billionaire Chris Larsen was spreading his $65M all over the board. Michael Bloomberg allocated $80 million just during September and October 2026 to support Democratic candidates. This, after he’d dropped a cool billy trying to buy out the 2020 primary. Tom Steyer put up $213 million this year, for California Governor.
There’s no shortage of liberal billionaire mega-donors.
Chris Larsen: I just hope both teams have fun
we get one year to say this freely, after that we will be told that we are clearly spies and/or bots working for Russia posting to influence the election and stop voting. Every election. Forever.
If you’re suggesting that Democrats aren’t worth voting for, you’re a Russian keyboard commando
If you’re suggesting that Republicans aren’t worth voting for, you’re a Chinese Wumao Tankie.
If you vote Green, you’re a dupe for the Republicans. If you vote Libertarian, you’re a dupe for the Democrats. If you don’t vote at all, you’re the singular reason my 60/40 district didn’t break the correct way.
If you vote for the opposition party, you’re a traitor, a degenerate, a racist, a fascist, a lunatic, an idiot, possibly all of the above.
If you vote for the correct party, you need to just shut up and get in line. Quit criticizing the party after the election. There’s nothing else to be done.
If you have a little flag that says “End the Wars” while you’re in line to vote, GTFO we don’t want you here, I don’t care who you are voting for.
It’s almost as if they’re both bad: but one is significantly worse than the other and in most races there isn’t a viable 3rd option.
So if regardless of who wins we’re going to have to coerce, argue, and fight them … why the hell wouldn’t we pick the one we have a better chance against?
All of these are different people you are describing.
If you vote Green, you’re a dupe for the Republicans. If you vote Libertarian, you’re a dupe for the Democrats. If you don’t vote at all, you’re the singular reason my 60/40 district didn’t break the correct way.
This is a childish interpretation of electoral politics. How would a vote for a third party help any mainstream candidate? If you’ve vote for libertarians you’re just a libertarian dumbass. Lmfao.
If you vote for the correct party, you need to just shut up and get in line. Quit criticizing the party after the election. There’s nothing else to be done.
If you have a little flag that says “End the Wars” while you’re in line to vote, GTFO we don’t want you here, I don’t care who you are voting for.
Is this really how you feel? or some joke I’m not picking up on? You don’t think politicians should be held to any leftist standard if they win? Why tf not? Why do we even bother electing them, you want all of them to go John Fetterman? That’s how you fucking lose elections dude.
I actually believe that people who are anti-war and anti fascists opinions do matter, and if you want those people to vote and “break your counties election the right way” you are going to actually have to start caring about black people, LGBT and other marginalized groups, working class, and anti War activists.
If you’re trying to get people to vote liberal telling them to “fuck off we don’t want you here” is incredibly stupid and short sighted.
Yeah but I’ve seen people use the logic that since both sides are anti union, pro billionaire and pro corporate, both sides are exactly the same.
… (how does it make them different?) …
You should look up the right side’s policies on immigration, abortion, and LGBTQ+ rights to exist on earth. I think you’ll find some slight differences of opinion between the parties there, and I’d hope you can see why that would sway people’s opinions on which one is more evil than the other.
Two things having similarities does not mean they are the same thing.
Well Talarico has the same racist immigration rhetoric that Trump does: deport drug dealers and criminals, even though we know most drug traffickers don’t come from Mexico through legal immigration and that’s a racist lie.
Amy Klobuchar receives money from a systemically genocidal apartheid state and she’s my new governor.
Being happy about the blue wave is one thing, I voted blue just in case, but acting like they (and more importantly their right wing capitulation) is also another thing.
Shame on me for trying to hold my party, and others who actually call themselves Socialists now, accountable from a left standpoint.
So called progressives have already called me slurs today and I fuckin voted. Idk what more you want from me. lol jfc. Hold your leaders accountable. Take a little criticism.
My point was entirely that they are different from Republicans, which was exactly the question you asked.
You didn’t ask if there were reasonable things to critique Democrats over, especially individually…Of course the answer to that is yes, and there’s no shame on you for a caring about that.
Well thank you, because I have been shamed quite a bit today for caring despite always voting blue and then working from there, always punching right and never left, etc.
says why they are the same but implies there are differences
Hey how are these similarities showing they are different?
Capitalist, anti union party is still more similar than they are different. Celebrate all you want but the American left is not even halfway done with this battle, and some of you are acting like it is.
I await with anticipation to see what you accomplish! Can’t wait!
I mean I’m never going to personally be in public office, if that’s what you mean. And sorry if this comes off as mean and you’re being genuine, but unless you live where I do you probably won’t see the accomplishments stemming from myself or any organization I’m involved with. I mean, maybe if you’re a local organizer or artist or you’re homeless or something.
If you are DSA, then unironically I do look forward to seeing your party pop up into my area, because DSA would be infinitely more palatable to work with than mainstream dems. But DSA aren’t here so I don’t have any avenue to work with them.
So, to be clear, you’re criticizing the Democrats, and the left isn’t nearly done fighting, but what you’re working on doesn’t involve holding any positions of power, nor is it doing something that’s meaningfully effective or noticeable.
Not to come off as an ignorant ass, but wouldn’t The Left be in a better position for long term meaningful change if The Left made sure to put people into positions of power? I know that might mean having to play ball with and pretend to be a Democrat, but even on a local scale wouldn’t that be an effective strategy? Even if you were trying to tear down The System, wouldn’t it help to have someone on the inside?
On my way to vote for segregation, because my side assures me I’m “one of the good ones.”
Lotta people seem to have missed what happened with Labour in the UK. Both sides are absolutely not the same, but let’s not pretend that a vote for self-preservation is a noble act.
And just to nip this in the bud, I did vote straight Democrat down the ticket. Just not thrilled to find out how many of those candidates will implement Facism: Now in Blue!
If you don’t vote in the primaries to choose which dems are on the ballot then the blame really lies on those who, like were already talking about, decided not to vote in the primaries.
Maybe try harder in ALL elections because the only reason Republicans are in power now is because of low voter turnout by democrats in 2024
I voted in the primaries, but this isn’t true. The winner is decided beforehand and the election is just a formality.
The last time I voted for a non-establishment candidate who won the popular vote, the DNC ignored the election results and gave the nomination to their preferred candidate instead. That’s why we got Hillary instead of Bernie in 2016.
I’ve been an activist for decades and during that time I’ve grown incredibly cynical. A lesson that gets repeatedly taught is the vast majority of the loud voices in a movement are smug cowards.
They don’t actually care all that much about their cause: you never see them putting in anything resembling work. Sure, they’ll throw a few bucks at a cause, maybe they’ll attend rallies or protests. But they disapear as soon as anything that requires actual effort, risk, or serious time commitment comes up.
And they sure as hell won’t make hard choices that might impinge on their idealism. They don’t know how to and are unwilling to get their hands dirty and actually fight – moral purity is more important than ugly, imperfect, but net positive change.
They’ll scream about how they’re waiting for a perfect solution … but they can’t be bothered to bust their ass to make it happen. They’re dead weight.
I fail to see how arguing that both sides are the same is going to do anything except discourage voters, which has been rampant from bots & propaganda farms even compared to previous elections.
The sides aren’t the same. Voting alone won’t fix things. Multiple things can be true at once and the folks who point out the truths that complicate your narrative aren’t all foreign provocateurs.
Re: voting, I think it’s helpful for radicals to look at voting not as a means of fixing the system, but as an opportunity to have a say in choosing the enemy they will face in the courts and in the streets.
The real issue is, Voting DOES fix things.
But not “everything instantly.”
But not voting, or voting for fascists, absolutely will never fix anything.
Like Democrats are a shit ass garbage party, but there is ZERO path to any actual change and progression through the GOP. And it will probably take decades of actual effort, but people are stupid and lazy and want instant gratification. So when Dems do garbage they roll back to not voting or supporting fascists who do nothing but lie.
Maybe we just care about different things, but I’ve been voting for progressives for decades and can’t point to much of anything I’ve seen fixed. If anything, I’ve watched the world at large and our politics get worse.
I still think there’s some value in voting (see the above re: choosing the enemy we will face), but I think it’s a mistake to expect or wait for politicians to save us. We have to build a better world for ourselves and take care of each other in the places and ways that we can without waiting for an invitation or asking permission.
There’s a reason voting is generally recognised as the least effective method of civic engagement. If you’re not doing more to promote and support the candidates who stand for the values you have, you’re probably not going to get the results you would prefer.
Just remember that the least effective method is still an effective method. Not voting is what “they” want you to do.
Representative democracy suffers the problem of only representing monied interests.
Edit: I continue to vote. I continue to play the lottery.
It’s almost like every other rounds we go back to Fascism who break everything and act like government is “broken”.
And I have voted for decades as well, in High School I called myself a Communist, but overtime I have moved right so now I am merely somewhere between Socialist and Democratic Socialist.
Brit here, can confirm voting also breaks things. A lot of people voted for Brexit as a “stick it to the establishment” and thinking they won’t do it anyway because voting doesn’t actually do change anything.
Please Americans reading this vote!
But not voting, or voting for fascists, absolutely will never fix anything.
I think there are more accelerationists on this platform than you might realize.
Probably, but I stopped giving a fuck what idiots think a while ago. It’s much nicer to just ignore them.
Well said. Voting is your BARE MINIMUM civic duty, you can’t act like ur gonna tear the system down and all this shit if u can’t even go speak ur mind in the booths.
In all my years I have never seen a candidate that matches of with my ideals, but that didn’t mean I didn’t vote. You try to find the closest match and then nudge the needle a little closer to what you want even if it is compromised.
There may be some fundamentals underneath that are difficult to change but it does not mean that both sides are the same.
You can protest AND vote. One doesn’t cancel the other.
Not seeing how that’s related to the price of tea in China
Everyone should vote.
Both sides arent the same.
People should be free to transfer their vote if their first pick doesn’t win. 3rd parties should be free to compete in the electoral system without a spoiler effect.
Did I miss anything?
Ranked choice voting!
I was a ranked choice voting fan, but this swayed me towards STAR voting. RCV would still be far better then First-past-the-post of course.
Alaska has it since 2022(, and Maine for federal elections).
However, a same ranked-choice voting election doesn’t mean the same outcome, since we also need to decide on the way to count the votes(, e.g., Ranked Pairs, Schulze, …, or even Borda count, STAR voting, …). Concretely, as a result of Alaska’s instant run-off system of “exhausted ballots”(, i.e., if a voter’s ranked candidates have all been eliminated, their ballot no longer contributes to the final round,) Nick Begich(Rep.) ended up eliminated first, despite being the Condorcet winner, since he would have beaten both Mary Peltola(Dem.) and Sarah Palin(Rep.) in head-to-head.
To be noted that, yesterday, alaskans voted in a referendum 51-49(, final results still unclear yet,) to keep the ranked-choice voting.I’m very much in favor of real/direct democracy(, e.g. sortition to prepare the laws later submitted via referendum, as in ancient Greece), but in the meantime ranked-choice voting isn’t enough :
- We could/should counter this “winner takes all” through proportional representation, i.e., a party receiving 20% of the votes would receive 20% of the seats. Ranked-choice make it easier to vote 3rd party, but proportionality(, which Alaska doesn’t have,) increases the chances of them getting a seat ;
- There should be campaign-finance reforms, as well as an equal mediatic representativity ;
- an end to gerrymandering of course(, even though proportional representation would already reduce it) ;
- perhaps an open primary like in Alaska, where all candidates compete in the same primary, regardless of political party ;
- and more(, e.g., why should there be only one representative per congressional district ?)The thing is that we all agree that there are problems, and we all agree that solutions exists(, better than the ones quickly sketched here), that these solutions would solve these problems. There’s a lack of will, just like the disparition of investigative journalism, which is a vital public service, as important as hospitals/firefighters/…, that should be financed by our taxes. Among other things for which there’s neither a lack of widespread complaints nor viable solutions.
Sam is running for congress, with a message that’s crystal clear : instead of bombing houses/schools/hospitals/… we should be building those things here
To be noted that, yesterday, alaskans voted in a referendum 51-49(, final results still unclear yet,) to keep the ranked-choice voting.
Wow they tried again to get rid of RCV? These people are relentless. Feels like alaska just had a vote to replace it last presidential election.
Makes you wonder why blue states use First-past-the-post voting when republicans are so in favor of it. Florida has passed legislation to protect FPTP voting from reform. Do we really want to use the voting system republicans want?
In 1776 some guys “invented” the concept of voating and haven’t changed it since. First past the post is easy to admin and understand but it doesn’t properly represent the people. The party system doesn’t help eather.
That’s just factually inaccurate. In 1776 some guys said the states get to choose how to handle voting. Thebstates still don’thave to donthat, and some don’t. Alaska has been in the news nust this week because its ranked-choice voting keeps the 2 Sullivans from creating a spoiler effect from voter confusion.
And even then, Senators weren’t directly elected until 1914 - prior to the 17th Amendment they were appointed by the State legislatures.
states aren’t forced to use first past the post voting, they choose to.
I just have to ask, when both candidates have espoused transphobic rhetoric, who do trans people vote for then? The end goal for both individuals is more dead trans kids.
Since you’re already perfectly aware that the answer is to vote for the people who openly include pro-trans candidates in their ranks, and not the people openly saying you should be either forcibly detransed or killed, I’m unsure what kind of answer you expect. I suppose you could write in Pontius Pilate since you’re nearly on the cross already.
Except the Democrats have been feeling about throwing trans people under the bus and anti-trans legislation still passed despite all this. The blue wave we see has a worrying undercurrent to it that’ll drown many people in its wake still.
Good point. We should have just let the Republicans win instead.
I love we come to this point and I people like me have to point out there’s no fundamental difference. Gaza would still be destroyed with an on going genocide of the Palestinian people, LGTB+ people will still see genocide. It’s easy to say “harm reduction” when you’re not the one being marginalized from safety.
I bet it’s so awesome being this dumb
Doesn’t matter the color of the sock wearing the black boot.
Good one
Blue maga have told me the formula is simple.
Harm caused by Republicans - Harm caused by democrats = democrats are better.
You dont get to ask for representation in government, you simply make this calculation and vote accordingly. No other options or reforms will be considered. Asking for more then these two options makes you a evil communist republican nazi commie socialist. This is what they call democracy.
So glad I didn’t have kids. Forever grateful to have gotten a vasectomy for those free souls that would have been imprisoned on earth. My kids will not have to suffer these people who are unfortunately my fellow US citizens. They won’t have to go to work for the worst people, they wont have to pay rent to the worst people. My unborn children are safe forever from life here.
And having a dissenting opinion and views automatically makes you a tankie. I’m just tired of human rights issues being a situation we must compromise on.
The one you’d rather fight.
Your choice
-
fighting during a Republican presidency with hundreds of thousands of angry democrats who don’t like a rude guy disrupting their brunch
-
fighting alone during a Democrat presidency while democrats call you Russian or Chinese or claiming you’re trying to spoil an upcoming election that is years away
Cops will shoot and kill you regardless of which party is in charge if you are actually fighting.
-
I howled when this happened. Admittedly, I was day drunk and high but…
Vote if you want but don’t expect it to stop the orphan crushing machine. Our only options are to swap the manager for someone who uses pleasant words while they operate it and maybe, just maybe, releases an orphan or two if they really feel up to it.
.ml
“you’re from the bad place” isn’t a particularly strong counter-argument
You seem to be under the impression that this is an argument, and not an extremely successful attempt to publicly shame you.
What does ml stand for?
It’s the top level domain for the country of Mali, but also can be interpreted as “Marxist Leninist.” Lemmy.ml is a tankie instance run by the tankie developers of Lemmy.
Its a lemmy instance. Some constantly post cringe as fuck feudposts trying to divide the fediverse. People should be free to run their instance how they want. If you dont like it, you can always block the instance yourself.
Major loser
deleted by creator
Hands up, who didn’t immediately guess the instance?
What are you doing to swap “managers?” I’d love to help.
I’m not doing anything to swap managers. My goal is to destroy the orphan crushing machine and to do that I am a member of a party focused on politically educating the working class and agitating for revolution. You can find our platform here
That sounds about right for a party that hasn’t put a single candidate into office.
Best of luck to you.
My goal is to destroy the orphan crushing machine
Candidates do not get elected on the platform of “The American working class needs to violently oppose their oppressors and remove them from power by any means necessary”. Socialists have tried seizing power through parliamentarianism and it hasn’t worked a single time. In fact, in many cases it resulted in the complete abandonment of their principles.
I’d vote for that candidate in a heart beat.
If you somehow convince everyone who chooses not to vote for socialism into physically overthrowing our system, call me up. I’m down for it.
I would too but they are legally disqualified from holding office according to Article 6 clause 3 and Article 4 section 4 of the constitution. Yes, you can argue that Republicans also violate these parts of the constitution and they still hold office but this is because they uphold Capitalism and are supported by Capitalists with significant power. I guarantee you these would be used against a genuine Communist candidate because they do not have such powerful support and actively oppose the system that creates that power.
There is also the Communist Control Act which has admittedly been somewhat gutted but I don’t believe for a second there wouldn’t be bipartisan support for bringing it back the moment Communists become a real political threat.
Our efforts would be expediated if people like you joined the cause and supported revolution instead of waiting for it to fall into your lap.
To quote the lovely Mrs. Luxembourg, “It’s not that we fear for socialists the dangers and the difficulties of ministerial activity; we must not back away from any danger or difficulty attached to the post in which we are placed by the interests of the proletariat. But a ministry is not, in general, a field of action for a party of the struggle of the proletarian classes. The character of a bourgeois government isn’t determined by the personal character of its members, but by its organic function in bourgeois society. The government of the modern state is essentially an organization of class domination, the regular functioning of which is one of the conditions of existence of the class state. With the entry of a socialist into the government, and class domination continuing to exist, the bourgeois government doesn’t transform itself into a socialist government, but a socialist transforms himself into a bourgeois minister.” [source]
Idk what you mean by “people like you” bc you absolutely do not know me, comrade.
I’m a militant socialist and I’m already on a lot of lists bc of my efforts to organize.
Until such time as others join me, yeah, I’m pushing better “managers.”
Socialists have tried seizing power through parliamentarianism and it hasn’t worked a single time
They’ve also tried seizing power through direct action and that also ends in abandonment of principles (when it doesn’t end in full on collapse or terminal impoverishment). Sounds like the only thing the authoritarian left can do is make other people miserable before they choke on the dust of overwhelming failure and then die. I’m glad I will see my ideas continue to work instead of tearfully insisting they haven’t been tried yet for decades of increasing irrelevance.
The Soviets took an agrarian backwater where most people were illiterate and didn’t own shoes to space in roughly 40 years. During that sime time they were devastated by WW1, immediately invaded by at least 138,350 troops from 10 different nations who backed their oppressors, suffered from a civil war, dealt with literally constant industrial sabatoge, and were brutally invaded by the Germans. They didn’t just liberate Europe from fascism, the made themselves into an industrial powerhouse at the same time. They had universal literacy, more doctors per capita than anywhere in the world (a title now taken by Cuba), universal healthcare, 3 years of paid maternity leave (eventually), and not just the right to paid vacations but the requirement that they take them. By no means was it wonderful and pleasant all the time for everyone but to simplify their history to “making everyone miserable before they choke on the dust of overwhelming failure and then die” is incredibly disrespectful. With the constant aggression they faced is it any surprise they had to wield authority? It reflects how little you know about socialist history beyond what your bourgeois society has spoonfed you.
China is responsible for lifting 800 million people out of poverty and returning to them the dignity which had been stolen by imperialists. Can you say the same about your government? Is it responsible for reducing poverty or creating it?
They didn’t just liberate Europe from fascism, the made themselves into an industrial powerhouse at the same time.
Joey “the purge” Stalin, Li’l Krusha, and Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgy Zhukov (all of whom I’ll point out knew a hell of a lot more about the great patriotic war than you do) were in unanimous agreement that the USSR would have been utterly fucked without the >17 million tons of shit with which the United States bankrolled their war effort. The Soviet Union continued to exist because of the intrinsically superior nature of market economics, which bailed the failed Soviet state out of otherwise guaranteed annihilation because the USSR was more useful alive than as suffering just deserts after their perfidity to Poland.
is incredibly disrespectful
Why state the obvious? I have no respect for losers and failures when they aren’t practicing authoritarianism, let alone when they so abrogate their humanity. They have no respect in death and will rot on the trash heap of history like their grandsons rot unburied in Ukraine.
China is responsible for lifting 800 million people out of poverty and
and killing about 60 million by doing stupid shit for no good reason. Rome was able to ply the masses with free bread for generations, as well as genociding minority cultures.
but what about YOUR culture, HUH?
LOL
I hear there may be better methods of destroying orphan crushing machines than clogging them with orphans.
Electing more effective administrators of the orphan crushing machine isn’t one of them. Electing administrators who give you a bigger cut of the profits produced by the orphan crushing machine also is not one of them.
You may disagree with all the positions offered but assuming they’re bots is incredibly naive.
It’s not naive, it’s their excuse to switch their brains off.
If uncomfortable thoughts only come from faraway malicious others trying to undermine your “democracy”, you can dismiss them guilt-free.
Now you can simply drop a piece of paper in a box and call it good. Nothing scary needs to be done or considered to arrest the decade long freefall into overt fascism that you wait no stop you’re thinking again.
Voting matters but convincing people that it’s less than the bare minimum they need to be doing is like pulling teeth.
brain dead
Yes, because after 3 major election cycles that were inundated with (proven) bad actors flooding social media with the same tired talking points people aren’t suspicious of brand new accounts relentlessly spaming those same talking points right before another major election.
God, people are so braindead.
I didn’t say brain dead, I said wilfully ignorant with words that included “brain”.
You lot are so practiced in misrepresenting the argument it’s like a flow state huh.
That is correct, some of them are just useful idiots. The result is the same, though.
Yeah good point, Russia has famously never astroturfed online. Also, humans aren’t bots. The word literally means robot.
I never denied that Russia trolls online; it’s a huge part of their intelligence doctrine. Also, humans direct networks of bots.
what is context? Hmm, I dunno, but I’m gonna deliberately misinterpret everything just in case
What leads to this behavior? Did you hang out behind a lot of idling buses for 20 years?
Are you a shitbag IRL or just online?
Baby’s first leading question aside, no, I don’t suffer fools in any context.
Must be hard hating yourself so much
Five vertebrae popped as you reached for that
Does your existence entail alot of self-loathing then?
With your propensity for trying to make the same joke you already see posted, maybe you’d be more at home in Youtube comments.
Dated but still true. “But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education SUCKS, and it’s the same reason it will never, ever, EVER be fixed. It’s never going to get any better, don’t look for it, be happy with what you’ve got. Because the owners, the owners of this country don’t want that. I’m talking about the real owners now, the BIG owners! The Wealthy… the REAL owners! The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. They are irrelevant. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice! You have OWNERS! They OWN YOU. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don’t want that! You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shitty jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fucking place! It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it! You, and I, are not in the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care! Good honest hard-working people; white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means, continue to elect these rich cock suckers who don’t give a fuck about you….they don’t give a fuck about you… they don’t give a FUCK about you. They don’t care about you at all… at all… AT ALL. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream,because you have to be asleep to believe it. George Carlin
George Carlin was a dumbshit and his standup is overrated
there’s a reason education SUCKS
America has one of the best public education systems on the planet. It’s practically the model for the rest of the globe and has been for over a century.
One of the few things Americans consistently get right is public education. It’s consistently the largest budget item for state and municipal governments. It produces an enormous population of professional workers. It’s a big reason we have the largest economy in the world.
You’d think Carlin would know that, given how many of his fans discovered him in college
Eat shit, I voted for a Green today.
Careful you don’t cut yourself with that edginess!
Thank you for voting.
Based. At least you bothered to turn up.
Looks about white
I can get paid for being an asshole online? I’ve been giving away my talents for free all this time.
Recruiting useful idiots to do the grunt work for them is part of the program.
I’m afraid I can’t do useful.
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The fact that your account was created a few weeks before the US election and you mostly comment about how voting doesn’t actually change anything… Doesn’t exactly do much to discount OP’s message.
They are all over the fediverse. My favorite was the 13 day old .ml account posting this shit on the anarchist instance. It was hilarious.
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Bye Ivan.
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2 week old account, full of downvoted and removed comments. Smells like ban evasion.
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“I’m in this photo and I don’t like it”
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Also every straight guy upset about Wicker.
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What
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