I’m not a dog breed expert, but…
The other day an agressive dog that looked like a pitbull, suddenly lunged at me barking loudly… It was about 10ft away from me but still scared the shit out of me
The owner yanked the dog back on its leash and i thought, “FML, the only thing that saved me from a deadly mauling was a 3/4 inch wide piece of nylon with a metal clip the guy bought off amazon for $5”
“But my little velvet hippo couldn’t hurt anyone!”
Hippos are super aggressive, territorial, and will bite a crocodiles in half. It’s amazing that’s supposed to be a cute, disarming nickname for a breed notorious for the same traits.
It’s also the most deadliest land mammal, the hippo that is.
Pretty sure that is technically humans, but hippos are definitely a second.
To be fair most won’t, but they definitely can and do.
Especially when they are jaws on legs that are more inclined compared to other dogs.
Yup. I’ve crunched the numbers before, and it’s something like 1 in 10,000 pit bulls will attack a human or other companion animal every year. It’s not likely for any given pit to attack a person (which I can anecdotally support–they’re obnoxiously friendly and loving in my experience), but it’s also like 10 times more than the next most vicious breed. In my opinion, it’s not worth euthanizing every member of the breed, but it is worth neutering every one. We don’t need dog breeds, especially ones responsible for over half of the violent attacks on people and other animals.
Of course, I’m in support of neutering all companion animals to reduce the stray population and ease the strain on shelters, regardless of breed or species. Breed specific laws are only one step towards fixing the larger problem.
Of course, I’m in support of neutering all companion animals to ease the stray population and the strain on shelters, regardless of breed or species. Breed specific laws are only one step towards fixing the larger problem.
Bob Barker is smiling down on you from heaven for this
Don’t you think that pit bull attacks are dangerous and cause medical trauma which leads to reporting of the attack? I think it’s likely that they don’t attack people more than any other dog breed. I was bit by a black lab mix. I didn’t report it to anyone. If it had been a pit bull I probably would have needed medical attention.
It’s actually not the strongest bite. And not the only breed with a locking jaw. It is the breed with a reputation though…
A reputation of the most kills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
Yes. Built by shitty people doing shitty things to these dogs because they like that fact about them.
As you’ve pointed out the dogs are perfectly capable of being lovey couch potatoes. The problem isn’t the dog it’s the people. The breed has a reputation. And the people who like that are just going to move on to the next breed after this one is gone.
You literally looked at the numbers they produced, ignored that and locked onto a tiny portion of their comment.
You, ma’am, are not arguing in good faith.
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We can, by looking at their kill ratio.
Human serial killers get the same treatment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
I must be unlucky because I have yet not run into one that didn’t try to kill me if not for the muzzle or them being a puppy or a fence.
The actual issue is that’s it’s a degenerative disease in dogs of similar breeds. At some point they get old and less able to recognize friend from foe. That might be ok if it weren’t for the jaws you mentioned.
Exactly.
I’d go one step farther and even say if they even had the same amount of attacks as other dogs, had no possible mental diseases, and all want to caring homes I would still put restrictions/ban on them.
They are just too large to handle, too big of a bite to brush off, and end up in dog attacks a lot. That’s enough for me.
I’m gonna need a source on that.
Cerebellar Cortical Disintegration or Degenerative Myelopathy could exacerbate a situation.
I unexpectedly found this on the genetic mapping of aggression which seemed interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4977763/
It’s funny they call them hippos considering that hippos are extremely dangerous and vicious wild animals.
And hippos too are known to turn on their human caretakers out of nowhere.
That’s funny because hippos kill more people than dogs
13000 vs 500 a year. So not really close. But hippos are more dangerous than most people think!
In total? Doubt it.
A shitbull owner using a leash, rare combination.
blame the owner not the dog
Blame both if the dog is a known dangerous breed.
Blame the parents not the serial killer.
not if that is sarcasm or not, but most likely there was no pitull in that that dog.
Based on what?
many many studies have shown that people can breeds apart.
not sarcasm at all…
regardless of breed, this dog looked like he was about to fuck up my whole day, so my point stands
as does my point.
I was walking my dog through my neighborhood once, and one of my stupid ass neighbors had his dog loose in his garage with the door open across the street. When it saw me, it charged at us, barking aggressively. It didn’t attack me, it just stood a few feet away baring its teeth and barking while his overweight owner waddled over to it armed with a sandle. I think it was a labrador.
If it was a pitbull though I’d likely be missing a limb or two today.
Unsurprising. Large “power breeds” like pit bulls I have always found questionable to have.
No restrictions or licenses? No muzzles at least?
A good thing they banned them.
Though I still dislike the outright malice and hate I see when a pit bull in a photo might be doing nothing but staring at a sunset. A bit hate crazy.
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
If you’re a dog owner and you’re paying attention, then your personal experience should include the following truth: any dog can go postal. If you then combine this with the knowledge that pitbulls are much more deadly than other dogs when being agressive, then you must reach the conclusion that this breed should be banned, even though that is admittedly a sad conclusion.
by that logic you would ban every dog on the planet
Every dog on the planet is more aggressive than all other dogs on the planet?
Well surely it’s a spectrum that people are advocating an arbitrary line be placed on. Once this breed is gone, what about the next most aggressive breed? They then become the most aggressive breed and there’ll be calls to weed them out too. Dogs kill more humans than any other non-human vertebrate in the world by a very long shot - getting rid of one breed isn’t going to reduce that number to zero.
To clarify, I’m not against the move of banning the breed at all, I’m just acutely aware that it’s making an arbitrary distinction.
Pitbulls are deadlier than all other breeds combined. They are 10 times as deadly as the next most aggressive breed. You don’t need to pull out the slippery slope fallacy, when the line is very clearly at pitbulls.
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That is not a good argument, it is dishonest and disingenuous.
You’re actually using the same logic people used to try and avoid gay marriage.
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Each more similar than the last!
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
I know a handful of pits who have bitten and severely injured people. For your positive anecdote there is a negative to match.
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
Technically it is disengenuous to say statistically and then make up a statistic
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
i am a dog owner, and know many dog owners, and have personally known 2 neighbors who lost pets due to pits who went ‘postal’
anecdotes gunna anecdote
Can this possibly be true?
If a dog switches to aggressive mode and stops listening to commands, trying to attack (another dog, a cat, a deer, a bird, a human) that’s what I mean by “going postal”. In most cases they are restrained on leash. The outcome, and the target (for the sake of this argument) are not important. It is not possible to predict accurately when they will do this.Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
I mean that’s fairly obvious from subtext. If you had, you would most likely be too traumatised to be defending them on an online forum.
If you did you wouldn’t have been alive to say so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
Pitbulls are not the deadliest dog out there. Not by a long shot. They’re just the ones people like to make aggressive.
Except they are, though. They’re bred to be as deadly as possible. This is a verifiable fact.
There are dogs that are bred to help bring down bears. Some asshole breeding for noise and muscle does not make the most dangerous dog.
Pitbulls are the most deadly breed of dog, to humans. This is a solid concrete fact. There are reasons for this, and evidence to back it up. Your thing about bears is irrelevant, unless those dogs have been proven to be more dangerous to humans than pitbulls, which they haven’t.
Sure, just ignore all context. Big number bad. Keep playing whack a mole wondering why the problem never gets fixed.
It’s important to understand what people mean when they say things. These people aren’t saying that pit bulls are more physically capable of killing people than any other breed, they’re saying that they’re responsible for more deaths than any other breed.
It’s a bit like saying the flu is deadler than ebola. Ebola may have a higher mortality rate, but it’s so much less likely to infect people that it has a much smaller kill count.
Then they can say that.
People with access to verifiable data overlook the appearance of safety to express a legitimate concern about a breed that’s demonstrably more likely to kill? What dorks!
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
My childhood pitbull bit me in the face and I have permanent face scarring from it. I had to get 60+ stitches to reconstruct my face.
It’s not a valid point to say “most don’t attack people” when the breed is much more likely to attack a person compared to other breeds. Then it’s made worse by the fact they’ve been bred to be extra good at attacking.
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
Just stop. You can’t even put a decent argument together and you aren’t helping anyone. Please, just stop.
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
They have the most kills because they are more likely to attack than any other breed, and more dangerous when they do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
Every couple of weeks I feed mine a toddler, it seems to keep the violent tendencies away.
I used to have a Pitbull, such a beautiful girl, who one day chased and killed one of our cats she’d grown up with. My friend had her brother, such a beautiful boy, who one day chased and killed one of their cats.
Last week, on my lifestyle block, two Pitbulls appeared and killed my chickens before I could stop them. I chased the fuckers off but haven’t found where they came from.
That is all.
That’s not just Pitbull behavior though. That’s called prey drive and a lot of breeds have that. Some everyone expects like Greyhounds and Bulldogs. But it’s also present in breeds like Golden Retrievers, Bassett Hounds, and Irish Setters. Are we going to ban Golden’s next? They can also feature the fun perk, protectiveness, where they go after anyone who gets close to their human. And any dog can become reactive.
I’ll take the dogs that are less prone to “prey drive” thank you very much. You don’t really see Goldens or Bassetts mauling small creatures or humans.
Tbh amstaffs are quite low on the prey drive. Small terriers, dachshunds, schnauzers, pointers, setters and dalmatians on the other hand have a very big prey drive.
I mean, they are not called hunting dogs, retriever, setter or pointers for nothing. And small terriers have for centuries been bred to kill every rat, mice and what have you in their vincinity.
But yeah, in the end all dogs are predators. And if you let them go unchecked bad things will happen. Especially when you have a powerful breed.
Cats do the same BTW. But for some reason we’re OK with dead mice and birds around the house.
All in all its the same discussion as with guns (and cars): guns don’t kill people, people kill people. And with dogs it’s more or less the same: bad or owners who are Inattentive will Allmost always result in big problems.
And while I do love amstaffs, they can be such chill and fun hunks of love, I can’t deny that they do real damage, more damage when left unchecked and we should probably regulate ownership like with guns and cars.
I do not think outright banning a breed is the solution. Because other breeds are just as susceptible to bad ownership. It will not solve it. The problem will just move away from amstaffs back too rottweilers and dobermans. Or another big powerful breed.
Like with guns we should make it harder for the assholes to acquire one. And like with cars you should prove yourself to be able to take care of one.
How many people have been mauled to death by Bassett hounds?
How many Basset Hound owners are wannabe tough guys? Not trying to excuse the behaviour, but there is definitely at least a correlation between behaviour of the dogs and that of their owners.
Man fuck off with this dumb bullshit, like half of the attacks are from family dogs where the family insists it was perfectly nice, not some biker.
More than you think. Go have a Google.
I did, basset hounds kill a whole lot less people than pitbulls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
And any dog can become reactive.
Any cat can give you a scratch or a bite, it’s just worse if the cat is a tiger. That’s why most places do allow a small pet cat and not a tiger.
Sausage dogs are extremely tough dogs with a lot of prey drive, because they were bred to hunt alone for example a
dodgerbadger underground defending its home. They bite often, are often (pro-)reactive but if someone dies through them it is an old lady stumbling over the leash and breaking her neck, not the dog ripping her guts out.With that line of thinking we shouldn’t have any dogs above toy size.
What is a dodger? When I Google it all I get is the baseball team. Like an animal that is dodging the dog?
dodger
badger, my bad, English is not my first language
No problem! Just wanted to understand.
The thing I have noticed about pitballs is that they have like this beast mode where they seem to just lose it with rage. Also because of their jaw strength when they do lose it whatever they do is much worse than regular dogs.
What is a lifestyle block? Is that a new way of saying neighbourhood?
Whoa grab some popcorn folks cause this comment section is a dumpster fire. Do we have a lemmy drama community yet?
How is it a dumpster fire? I don’t see anyone defending the breed.
That’s because this isn’t a breed specific problem. Unless that breed is Human. Humans can fuck up any dog on purpose or not and the shitbags who like this breed specifically because it has a reputation will just choose a new breed to fuck up after you ban this one. This has been the pattern of Breed Specific Legislation everywhere it’s been introduced. You can do all of the same aggressive training with a Golden Retriever. And the list of dogs known to have a protective streak is as long as my arm.
That is hilarious. But there is a real problem here. It’s like we just transferred systemic racism to dogs. We create the problem in the stats and then blame the dogs that were abused to do it.
It’s like we just transferred systemic racism to dogs.
I actually saved this into a list of ignorant comments I keep. Is easily top ten material. Comparing the banning of pit bulls to the result of the slave trade is a hell of a comment. Congratulations?
Not to say I agree with him but he didn’t compare those two things at all. He said it’s the same mentality that underlies racism and ‘breedism’ for lack of a better word.
Comparing people to dogs is fucked up. Asian, latinos, etc aren’t “breeds”. There’s also the implication of certain races being more prone to committing crimes. Honestly, both of you stink like racists.
I’m sorry, you think systemic racism stopped when we outlawed most slavery?
Screw the dogs, tell me more about this utopia you live in without modern day systemic racism.
You just compared black people to breeds of dog.
Sit down.
I have a dream where Pitbulls and Chihuahuas can play in the same dog park together.
Dude Chihuahuas are never going to be welcome in the big dog part of the park.
Dog breeds are not comparable to human races. You might as well compare your woodshed to London.
Whoosh. The point is we enable these shitty owners who encourage aggressive behavior then we blame the dog when we set the system up that way.
Whoosh. The dog was bred for a long time to be mean and cause a lot of damage when it was angry.
I mean ban shitty owners from owning another animal, put them in jail for animal abuse, fuck do both. But there is a huge difference in damage between a pitbull attack and say a greyhound.
Not sure why people downvote this, it’s objectively correct. We bred these dogs to be what they are, we can absolutely breed something else to take its place. This is really basic evolution and trait selection.
I think they’re great looking dogs, but I also think they need a similar ban in the US, barring a few highly specialized breeders, who can essentially reverse what was done to them over a period of generations. I don’t want to see them go away entirely, I’d just like them controlled until we can breed out what we’ve bred in.
It’s not even that’s much to do with the breeding. They are very trainable dogs with a prey drive. They just get shit owners who encourage the aggressive behavior because of the street rep. They’ll do the same thing with Boxers, Dobermans, Rottweilers, and generally any short haired breed that looks muscular.
You summoned one!
I think we should genocide every dog because any dog is more dangerous than no dogs.
Agreed, but lets start with pitbulls
My neighbor has a pit mix and it snarled at me gnashing its teeth once as she walked by. I was just standing there by my car minding my own business barely even acknowledging them. I jump and yell Jesus wtf lady omg. She just made pathetic excuses, he keeps me safe, never does that, it’s fiiiiine etc. Ive told her numerous times she needs to train it at the bare minimum, preferably destroy it. I’ve observed it doing the same to other people as they walk past. I bought pepper spray and look out for them very carefully whenever I go to my car now. I bet it’s just a matter of time before someone gets mauled and I hope it’s not me. Fucking hate those things.
sorry you experienced that, it’s a poor owner, not a bad breed. we have a staffy mix that’s an adorable mutt, great dog.
Do you agree that retrievers are bred to retrieve things?
Do you agree that herding dogs are bred to herd things?
Do you agree that pointer dogs are bred to find things?
Surely you’ve been around these kinds of dogs before. It’s not something that they learn; they are specifically bred to do a job and they will do that job even without training. You’ve seen or heard of how a sheepdog will herd small children, I’m sure. It’s why the breed exists; they are specifically bred to do a certain thing and genetically their instinct is to do the thing that they were bred for over the course of thousands of years. You can remove them from their mom and not give them any training and they will naturally do the thing that they were bred to do. You don’t have to train a golden to bring you back a ball.
So is it a surprise that a dog bred to kill things will want to kill things?
That’s not simply because of “a poor owner”, although the fact that people refuse to train their killer dogs to not be killers is part of it. It’s because their dogs are genetically predisposed to kill, just like a pointer dog is genetically predisposed to find things.
It is absolutely a bad breed. Killer dogs should be banned worldwide. Every single pitbull, rottweiler, etc. should be spayed/neutered and the breed should end. They’re too dangerous and dumb owners have proven that you can’t rely on humans to keep them under control.
It’s not the dogs’ fault, mind - it’s their instinct. But that doesn’t mean that future generations should have to deal with it.
I had a retriever, she liked chasing ducks. Sometimes she would run to duck and then run back to me with this look on her face of “there is a step missing”.
They’re too dangerous and dumb owners have proven that you can’t rely on humans to keep them under control.
That’s why we have laws in Germany that say that if dogs of certain breeds don’t pass character tests they have to be muzzled, and you might need a license (as in driving license) and a certificate of conduct.
States tend to put American Staffordshire-Terriers (and therefore Bullies) in the harshest category, Rottweilers get off way easier.
Those two breeds are nowhere close to comparable when it comes to aggressiveness. Rottweilers aren’t inherently aggressive, on the contrary they’re exceptionally chill and have a high anger threshold. But they’re also protective and if you aren’t chill yourself they will quickly become to think of themselves as the pack leader.
Rottweilers are about as easy or hard to mess up a German Shepherds, it’s just that messing up passively becomes more dangerous as they’ll become overprotective, see imagined threats because you imagine them, suchlike. If you want to see a breed with inherent anger issues that’d be the Chihuahua.
Yeah Rottweilers are herding dogs, they herd children too and just love leaning into you. Herd dogs also protect their pack so they do need training and an owner who knows what they’re doing on top of extensive socialising.
Do you agree humans are made to shitpost? Because your demonstration is revealing.
No one bred staffies or pits to kill. Cute though. Bet you’re a wonderful human being.
Bullshit. You think shitbulls got their reputation from thin air? Shit dogs for shit owners.
Hey look, someone with a shitty troll username making shitty troll comments.
Not at all a troll username - it is a new account, but I don’t like making up usernames so I just keyboard mash. I stand by everything I say though.
Edit. I looked through your comment history. Bit hypocritical to accuse others of trolling with comments like that.
Copy pasted comments that are totally in good faith:
If only we could use statistics to cull people, too.
I think we should genocide every dog because any dog is more dangerous than no dogs.
I just think we should be consistant. If we’re using statistics to cull creatures, racists are going to have a field day.
If we’re using statistics to cull creatures, racists are going to have a field day.
Did you just insinuate black people commit more crime?
Comparing other races to dogs is pretty fucked up to start with.
Why not defend your argument instead of attacking another person? It might be more effective and useful, you know unlike your vicious pitbull
well with that airtight argument you’ll go far! you should work for the GOP with these kind of ideas, they’ll fit right into that shit show
Aren’t like 70% of fatal dog attacks from pits or pit mixes?
I think 70% of your statistics are bullshit. Citation requested.
This is exactly what they are complaining about 😛
After watching my cop neighbor try to drive a dog away with pepper spray, it’s not going to help much. Even direct hits to the eyes didn’t seem to affect the dog much.
Oof, noted, thanks. I figured it’s a decent last resort but I guess not. Vigilance and avoidance are the best bet as usual. I’m not quite ready to buy a handgun over this.
When a pit latches on, the only thing you can do is choke it out. Strangle it until it sleeps. Nothing else will make it let go. It doesn’t feel pain, doesn’t notice knife stabs or bat beatings or anything at all. Just hope it has a collar you can pull with all your might.
Maybe I’ll buy that handgun after all. Really pisses me off that I’m forced to consider this option because people are too stupid and stubborn to realize they themselves owned walking untrained lethal weapons.
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You are not completely wrong, but you are wrong enough to be voted down.
It’s the owners’ fault for not accepting that they have an extremely dangerous animal on a leash and that they haven’t done the minimum necessary to control it. They make excuses until shit happens and that shit could happen to them and their own family as easily as it could happen to a stranger.
On top of that, these breeds are far more dangerous than others. Even if another breed bites as often or more, the damage they do is less. This breed will bite and not let go, they ignore pain completely, their jaws make large wounds and with their muscular necks they can rip out large chunks of flesh. I do not care if Sausage Dogs bite more often and are rarely well trained, they do not manage to kill anyone, except an old lady who stumbles over the leash and breaks her neck.
Even the best-trained American XL bully dog is a weapon that can shoot itself, and once it starts it is unstoppable except by a bullet or being choked into unconsciousness. The breed was bred for this, it is in them like a sausage dog was bred to hunt alone under ground and chase a badger defending its home. They are tough as hell and bite attacks are common, usually ending in a small scar on someone’s lip or a torn trouser. If you keep your finger, your eye, your face or your life with an American XL bully dog you got lucky.
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Insulting people who take their time to explain why people downvote you doesn’t make you any different than the worst of Reddit. Also you seem to not have an argument against what I wrote so that’s settled then. Have a nice day!
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Hahahaha troll better, loser
That is like blaming the parents of a serial killer for the murders.
I agree, we should blame the parents. they should have raised their kids better, and in the case of the mentally unwell helped them get the necessary treatments.
Good. Too bad more countries aren’t doing this.
We regulate cars pretty heavily, we regulate guns decently.
When it comes to dogs, across the entire world, literally crickets chirping. No government does anything.
I think there are some strict laws in Germany when it comes to dog ownership.
There’s a whole bunch of countries where they wouldn’t even think of regulating them as pets because dogs are purely working animals or feral.
There’s a whole bunch of countries where they wouldn’t even think of regulating them as pets because dogs are purely working animals or feral.
Don’t stop there, champ. Which countries?
Large parts of the global south see dogs as unclean.
13 dog breeds and mixed breeds are banned in Denmark: https://en.foedevarestyrelsen.dk/animals/animal-welfare/danish-legislation-on-dogs as one example.
Dog breeds all exist for a purpose either still relevant or now redundant.
Before you get a dog, understand what that breed exists for. Even the best obedience training may not overcome generations of refined and selected natural instincts.
It’s never the dogs fault. It is always your fault.
I do wonder how much is the breed and how much is shitty owners being attracted to perceived scary breeds. My guess would be a bit of both.
You don’t need to train a pointer puppy to point. They do it from birth. You don’t need to train a sheep dog to herd. They do it from the moment they can walk. You don’t need to teach a pit bull to latch and shake. They also do that from birth. Training can mitigate the risk, but they’re still very dangerous dogs.
If that logic holds true than pure American pitbull terriers should actually be the safest dogs to own in regards to people. Pitbulls where bred for dog fighting, but even more specifically they were bred to not bite the handlers. As getting a dog to fight is just a matter of time and selection, but getting a dog to fight only dogs and not people is something much more difficult and valuable, at the time.
But, that was many, many years ago. And the breed has been bred and bred and inbred and bred again. An American pitbull terrier average weight is about 35 to 60 lbs. Average. 35 is no bigger than an average corgi. With 60 at the high end being a small golden or average chow.
These XL bully breeds aren’t pitbulls. Hell, even pitbulls now days aren’t pitbulls. They are a mix of staffy, mastiff, American bull dogs, English bulldogs, and random other terriers. And then sold as designer breeds like the American bully with no regard for behavior, temperament, or loyalty.
They were trained for fighting. Hard stop.
Just so happens their normal sport was fighting dogs.
Literally no.
Literally every breed with a prey drive does the death shake. And they aren’t the only ones with locking jaws either. This is very much a problem of shitty people who like the reputation.
In the past I’d say it’s a bit of both, though moreso the type of shitheads attracted to ‘scary’ breeds is also as likely to be shit at training/ socialising them. There’s some good evidence though that this particular ‘XL’ breed has higher rates of inbreeding and has already been selected for agression (not to mention their increased size & power).
Think it’s a fair point some are making though that just banning the latest dangerous breed is missing the wood for the trees. There should be serious penalties from any dog attack, for the owner; treat it the same as possession of a dangerous weapon like a gun or zombie knife.
It’s bit of both. These morons aren’t lining up to buy daschunds.
You need to go one step further - why do people feel the need to own such dogs in the first place? Some people would say the dog is for protection (from who? And why are those people a threat? It’s well known that lack of social and communal services lead to young people ending up involved with gangs and violence), others use it as a status symbol (don’t even get me started on consumerism, and commodification of natural shit like animals), and in almost all cases there is a lot of toxic masculinity involved.
These are all deep rooted systemic issues that go far beyond both dogs and owners (don’t get me wrong - I am not excusing bad dog ownership, and don’t think people should be raising violent and aggressive dogs), and they all need addressing to actually resolve the problem, but it’s much easier for those in charge to focus on the end result, and make it an individual issue, they don’t care about making society better, they just want power and money.
Not arguing here, all your points are correct, just sharing why I have a big scary dog. He’s half GSD, quarter american pit (not xl) and quarter American staffordshire. I got him for two reasons, 1) I have a first floor patio in a bad neighborhood and he’s got a great guard insinct, and 2) he’s a big baby and makes a great emotional support animal (ptsd anxiety and ASD). I don’t need protection, I just need a buddy to scare off the crackheads who have tried to walk into my appartment just because I wanted some fresh air and left the door open. He loves everyone, but oh boy if I don’t let you in myself you’re in for one hell of time. I’ve raised dogs all my life, knew what I wanted, and what I was getting into. That is unfortunately not the case 90% of the time and it pisses me off when I see it. Honestly I would love to require people get a liscense to own a dog (let alone have children)
Honestly I would love to require people get a liscense to own a dog
That’s the case in Germany, depending on state and breed. With what I heard about US dogs and their utter lack of training (e.g. not being able to lie under a table under a restaurant and chill) you should probably make it universal, though.
(let alone have children)
…that’s not going to happen. How about teaching pedagogy and developmental psychology in school, say ages 14 to 16, start of the “seeing kids as kids” age. Speaking of, domestic animal psychology is actually a great topic for biology, doesn’t need to go into depth but some fundamental stuff about cats and dogs so that people are less likely to misinterpret what they see should easily fit the curriculum.
(let alone have children)
Who exactly would be in charge of approving those licenses, Herr Führer?
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
Ive seen people attack and kill buffalo. We should kill whichever breed of people do that.
Horses are fragile as fuck. Let’s talk about dogs that were bred to kill bears. Oh but wait they didn’t get a street rep and a million shitty owners abusing them. Alaskan Malamutes were bred to help with Polar Bears, they get to about 100 pounds, have a very strong bite, and a big independent streak making them harder to train. Oh yeah and they come with a warning about being around children.
What’s the difference in the actual breeds? The Malamute is giant fluffball. The Pitbull has many manly muscles.
There’s a story that a family dog got loose after a car crash. They found the dog a few days later … herding sheep. No one ever taught the dog to herd sheep.
Pitbull?
The article I found says border collie and red heeler.
Dog ejected from vehicle in Idaho crash found two days later herding sheep
The problem is that there’s no way to tell a bad owner from a good one, which is how we end up in situations like this. I’ve almost had my throat torn out as I made my way to the bus stop because a very submissive owner couldn’t control his dommy gshep, which was lunging and straining at the leash in order to kill me.
I love sheps and have met some extremely good owners, but they are few and far between compared to the jackasses who bring their Rottweilers into bars, where the dog goes absolutely ballistic and starts making kill noises at everyone until the owner has to leave the bar. And that happened last month, lol.
oh oh I read a study answering that.
It depends on behavior. They found high correlation between breed and how many time they turned around before laying down. Certain common trip like sit or come. But not aggressive behavior. They highest correlation for that was back ground. Dog from the streets or abusive backgrounds. Followed by a small correlation with genetics, which is not the same as breed.
Breed did have anything to do with aggression. Also most people can’t tell a pitbull from other dogs, and studies that look at dog attacks only rely on the victim just saying what breed attacked them
most people that know how to train dogs have perfectly well behaved dogs, of course they’re always going to be animals at the end of the day but we shouldn’t be surprised when they act out either
In the case of decent owners probably 50/50. Bad owners more like 10/90 (dog/owner).
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Pity, teachers should have a good pitbulls to stop the bad ones.
This isn’t the time to discuss pitbull control.
They are poor misbreeds anyway.
It’s really disheartening to see Reddit’s irrational pit bull venom is just as present here. Notice how rarely you see comments from animal industry professionals chiming in with these opinions. It’s not because professionals don’t have their own breed biases, and they don’t typically keep quiet about them, either. It’s that most people with a lot of day-to-day experience with dogs don’t share this opinion. Their experiences don’t match public perception.
Bite statistics and behavioral euthanasias both in private and public spheres are anything but transparent. They also often rely upon witness statement accuracy, which is not reliable nor scientific. There simply isn’t enough accurate information available to support such a vitriolic, knee-jerk reaction to a dog’s breed in and of itself. There are too many variables to consider to accept that mindset as rational.
I encourage anyone who cares about these issues and who loves animals and people to consider volunteering. There are a lot of opportunities out there that you might be surprised are available. It’s not just shelters who need volunteers, either, and you can find opportunities in an array of different settings and ways of helping. You might find that experience will give you a broader understanding of how complex these problems are, and how we can work to solve them.
There simply isn’t enough accurate information available to support such a vitriolic, knee-jerk reaction to a dog’s breed in and of itself.
Of course there is. Not a week goes by in the UK without an attack by this breed. Some survive, many do not.
Not a week goes by in the UK without an attack by this breed. Some survive, many do not.
Can you please link some statistics on this?
The only source I could find says:
Six of the 10 fatal dog attacks in the UK last year were linked to XL bullies, and at least three of the seven this year.
That’s too many deaths, of course, but hardly one a week.
Wednesday: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12522011/Shocking-moment-dog-mauls-boy-football.html
That one is a Staffordshire bull terrier, not the breed being banned for these attacks.
That’s 3 in 6 days.
You didn’t actually respond to my comment about a request for statistics, rather posting some individual stories. So since I posted I found this article from the BBC. It states that:
In 2022, there were 8,819 admissions to hospital in England with dog bites.
So that’s actually 24 dog attacks per day, so the problem is even more severe than you suggest, though the claim of only “some survive” then is misleading at best.
In 2022, there were 482 sentences given to owners of dangerously out of control dogs which resulted in an injury to a person in public
Out of all those hospital admissions, there’s 24 attacks a day being deemed criminal by our justice system. That data suggests that this problem is by no means limited to the XL bully breed.
That one is a Staffordshire bull terrier, not the breed being banned for these attacks.
Two attacks in six days rather than three then. Does this somehow make it acceptable?
They’re a dangerous breed and should be banned. No amount of pedantry or weasel words can change that.
That’s 6 of 10 fatal dog attacks. Though it surely disappoints them, not all attacks by pit bulls are fatal.
Apparently requesting to have a fact based discussion is offensive. I merely asked for actual data for some rather extraordinary claims.
I don’t think I seemed offended. I pointed out that the fact you refuted wasn’t what the person you replied to was asserting.
I see the statistics you cite come up as the first result on searches. Did you look at anything else? “Dog attacks in UK annually” has a lot of results for me.
Here’s a BBC article for example:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64798162
which statesLast year, there were nearly 22,000 cases of out-of-control dogs causing injury. In 2018, there were just over 16,000.
as far as info on which breeds are involved, I’m sure it’s out there.
I pointed out that the fact you refuted wasn’t what the person you replied to was asserting.
There were two claims asserted:
- “Not a week goes by in the UK without an attack by this breed.”
- “Some survive, many do not.”
(Emphasis mine) The first is not something I can find evidence for as there seems to be no break down easily availably by breed. And as for the second, most survive , 0.1% do not.
The down votes being given for asking for data seems like I’m offending some. 🤷
as far as info on which breeds are involved, I’m sure it’s out there.
Does not seem to be as you have also failed to find it. There is aggregate data for all dogs, which yes, is easily found actually refused some of the assertions that the person made.
Banning based on breed seems like a knee jerk reaction based on anecdotes.
True, “many” seems to be an overstatement. Being mauled by a dog isn’t great, either.
Does not seem to be as you have also failed to find it.
That’s a function of how much time I spent looking. You seem to be more engaged in this topic than I am, so perhaps you could find the data.
Mostly cause we, y’know, ban the dangerous breeds, so we have a lot fewer dangerous dogs attacking people.
482 dog attacks in 2022 resulting in criminal action but a fraction are caused by this particular breed.
In one recent study, researchers compared behavioural tendencies such as impulsivity and sensitivity to positive and negative stimuli – known to trigger aggressive responses – between eight dog breeds that are legislated against (including pit bull types), and 17 breeds that are not. This suggested that breed alone was a poor predictor of individual behavioural tendencies, including those related to aggression.
These stats are American, and only the ones that got in the news:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
The statistics are unequivocal. There is a reason we don’t usually allow people to own lions and leopards as house pets. No amount of obedience training is going to make them safe. Here is a list of all fatal dog attacks in the UK. Pit bull breeds are far over-represented. I just don’t see how you can look at this data and think, “everything is fine!”
I genuinely can’t grasp why anyone would die on the hill of defending pit bulls. There are countless other dog breeds to choose from, why can’t we just ban pit bulls entirely when they’re demonstrably dangerous?
In some old reddit threads this was talked about a lot, some interesting ideas came up. Of course many people keep these because they are assholes and enjoy scaring others (e.g. drug dealers, gangsta wannabes), but those are also not the ones arguing about statistics online.
The most interesting view in my opinion: these owners are having some kind of victim/martyr complex, enjoy picking the hated breed, so they can be a pit mamma, and show the world, etc. It becomes a part of their personality, so they are special and not like others. When they feel attacked, they are very defensive about it - I used to get abusive “suicide reports” many times I posted or commented smg anti-shitbull.
One reason is that many people see these arguments against the breed as arguments against their own pet. It’s easy to see why someone would ignore the statistics when they’ve had pit bulls that were all sweeter than any other dog they’ve owned. When you start bombarding people like that with statistics and news stories it doesn’t convince them that good old Velma is actually a ticking time bomb, it convinces them that people on the internet just hate their dog for no reason. After all, while pit bulls do attack people and animals disproportionately often, Velma has lived with a chihuahua and a cat for ten years without ever so much as growling, as do the majority of pits.
Then there are comments like “garbage dogs for garbage owners,” and arguments against the breed become arguments against the owner. Do you expect someone to just not say anything when someone insults them?
Because shitheads are just going to move on to the next breed. That’s already effectively what happened with the XL Bully. The dogs are nowhere near the hardest to train and socialize. They just have the street rep.
I don’t understand your point. Are you saying if we ban pit bulls people will choose other violent dog breeds, and those people are shitheads? Or are you saying people who want to ban pit bulls are shitheads and banning pits will open the door to banning more violent breeds?
The owners who buy these animals specifically because of their street rep will just choose another breed. We need laws about breeding and training.
As I said, dog bite and behavioral euthanasia reports are murky at best, and rely upon nonexpert information. I’m sorry, but a picture graph with no information on how the information was obtained, what verification was involved, etc. is no better than a Facebook share. That’s my point. Information is hard to qualify, quantify, and assess. Trying to oversimplify such a complicated issue is not going to get to the root of the problem.
yawn
Here ya go. I spent 7 years in the military as a dog handler with two different malinois during that time.
I then got out and worked for a government agency investigating dog attacks.
One of the first jobs across my desk was… an American Bully XL. Almost killed another dog and sent a male person to the hospital. The dog was from an upper class family and was around little children daily.
We had 7 dogs that we had confiscated, pending court hearing regarding attacks.
7 out of 7 dogs were bully breed dogs.
In my experience I will not trust a bully breed dog in any circumstance. I’d take a malinois any day over a bully breed dog.
It’s not really about reddit, unless you think the UK government also got their attitude from reddit. Personally while I have not been attacked by a Pitt, and have known people with some that are nice and some that are insane, I have been threatened by Pitts in public and I did not enjoy it.
“Garbage dogs for garbage people”
ITT: bleeding hearts who don’t understand the difference between animal species and dog breeds.
