• @awake01@lemmy.world
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    515 days ago

    Lol, this assumes that free elections still exist. That is very unlikely. This is all the same long term cycle. People don’t value democracy they value tiktok, real housewives, cheap gasoline and cheap eggs. There is no reason for them to recognize what they are losing before it’s too late. It is what it is

  • @dragontamer@lemmy.world
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    216 days ago

    What if the economy doesn’t tank?

    The President doesn’t have that much control over the economy. That’s a fundamental truth.

    There will be awful policies but there’s no guarantee of an economic collapse here.

      • @dragontamer@lemmy.world
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        216 days ago

        Trump doesn’t do what he says he will do. Its pretty much random.

        The reliable grift, such as anti-immigramt hate and anti-muslim stuff is obviously coming. And as awful as they will be, I’m not convinced that it will have an obvious effect on our economy.

        When we start looking at things like Elon’s grift or other Billionaires he’s with, the stock market, crypto coins and other assets will go up. It seems unlikely to me that a crash would necessarily occur at the right timing you desire (this is bad for us in the long term. But the modern corporate economics world has become very good at hiding fraud and kicking cans down the road. Elon especially).

        If they can hold most money together and make their supporters money (see Cryptocoin and Tesla stock right now), then they have a winning economic message for their core supporters.

        Or do you think anyone actually gives a shit about how middle America will feel from this?

    • @zbyte64
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      16 days ago

      Markets are cyclic and we’re overdue for the AI bubble to pop. But I don’t think that automatically means the Democrats can win another presidential election or win the Senate.

  • @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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    416 days ago

    We’ll see. Right now we are in an UNBELIEVABLY good economy and I keep hearing - even from so-called leftists and centrists - just how terrible the economy is, etc., etc.

    Yes, maybe white collar jobs have softened somewhat, starting in 2022, party because some of Big Tech overhired, but seriously, look at the various indicators…it’s almost all good.

    Contrast this market with the dot-com bubble burst, or the 2008 fallout from banks fucking around with subprime markets. Just what is so bad about this economy?

    • @Wogi@lemmy.world
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      816 days ago

      The market is not the economy.

      The market is a measure of how much wealth is being extracted from the working class.

      If that’s what the economy is then it will never matter how good it is, because the working class people still can’t afford shit.

    • @TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works
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      516 days ago

      From my experience talking with folks IRL they just food prices, home prices, and collage prices. My experience may be squed because I work at a supermarket and have to try to imply that it’s the fault of greed without getting in trouble for making people not buying stuff a few times a week.
      They mean the cost of living, not economy.

      • @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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        116 days ago

        I wonder: did any of these people making these claims speak at all about what policy or policies changed this and what policy or policies will perform some kind of miracle to change it back?

  • justhach
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    1216 days ago

    The cope among thr Democrats post election has been embarassing. 0 reflection as to why they lost (just like in 2016), blaming every possible external factor imaginable instead of thinking “hey, maybe we sucked and need to actualy be people that people want to elect” instead of relying on the “ooooh this guy is bed, better vote for us to keep him out” strategy.

    They have fucked up in a major way, in what should have been a slam-dunk election, by ignoring what people actually want and trying to be Great Value Republicans when the right has Coca-Cola Fascism readily available to them.

    I hope adherence to the corporate staus quo was worth it, you absolute fucking buffoons.

  • @Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1416 days ago

    Assuming Democrats are still around to campaign expect the same milquetoast, center-right bullshit platform of getting things “back to normal” to kill any kind of enthusiasm from their base. Don’t get me wrong I voted for Harris but I’m getting really tired of voting against having evil men in power over someone I actually like. I want Bernie Sanders, not Margaret Thatcher Lite.

    • @kandoh@reddthat.com
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      416 days ago

      They’ll campaign on abortion and re-legalizing gay/interracial marriage.

      Those will require a trifecta of branches, with significant margins in the Senate, which will seem impossible so no one will vote for them because we’ll know they can’t deliver on what is being promised, just like this time around with Kamala and Abortion.

  • Billiam
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    3816 days ago

    Historically, fascist governments are voted in.

    They’re never voted out.

      • Billiam
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        316 days ago

        Yes, but that was more a case of the government collapsing due to Germans fleeing through Hungary and Austria.

        Besides, I don’t really want to wait 50 years for the GOP to finally wither away.

        • @CitizenKong@lemmy.world
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          116 days ago

          40 years and while that was definitely an important part of it, it was mainly half a million people protesting on the streets of every major city.

      • @Grapho@lemmy.ml
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        116 days ago

        Just gotta get yourself a foreign sponsor to start sabotaging the US and get the rest of the world to stop selling you food, oil, or consumer goods like the US did to the DDR.

    • @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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      116 days ago

      Haven’t seen many people asking, but aren’t an awful lot of votes being counted by ES&S?

      Who even says we voted this one in?

      • HeadfullofSoup
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        416 days ago

        Trump gonna die ( kill by it’s masters ) so Vance can get promoted as the perfect puppet to push the US even more into dictatorship using the coup for more violent repression of everyone they dont like

        • @boydster@sh.itjust.works
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          516 days ago

          My bet is Trump gets the 25th amendment treatment just after he passes the 2-year mark of his term. That way, the back half of the term won’t start the timer on Vance’s 2-term limit and the fascists can keep Americans sleepwalking for the next 12 years before we collectively wake up and realize we’re in a dictatorship. I hope I’m wrong but I could easily imagine this plan already having been drawn up.

      • @futatorius@lemm.ee
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        416 days ago

        Franco’s a worst case, and there are still lingering problems in Spain due to the compromises made in order to restore democracy.

        • @draneceusrex@lemmy.world
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          116 days ago

          Ummm…are you forgetting WWII? No one is coming into the country to help us drag them to the Hegue. Of course there will be compromise. The only other scenario is WWIII.

    • @Asafum@feddit.nl
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      1416 days ago

      This is exactly what has me so horrified. Hitler was stopped as was Mussolini.

      There’s no one strong enough to stop America and with our geographic and strategic locations we’re practically invincible. :(

      • @futatorius@lemm.ee
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        16 days ago

        A better example might be the collapse of communism in Russia and the former USSR. The system just got increasingly rotten until it crumbled from within. And despite the self-serving lies, Reagan had nothing to do with it. It was all down to the people in those countries who had finally had enough.

        • @Grapho@lemmy.ml
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          116 days ago

          It was getting late for libs to start bringing up socialism to diagnose their fascist oligarchy. The USSR collapsed in the way most socialist states have collapsed: at gunpoint, after decades of siege, sabotage and outright insurrectionism sponsored or directly enacted by the US. It’s no accidentt that Vietnam, the DPRK and China have robust security states, you can’t survive the US without them.

        • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝
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          116 days ago

          It was all Russia for some of them. The Hungarians did jack shit and it shows to this day.

  • @Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world
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    8616 days ago

    No they won’t.

    Trump just said that he’s going to impose tariffs that are going to increase the cost of living by about $400 a month per family. Elon Musk just said he plans on imposing “hardship” on the country for a few years. And Americans voted ovewhelmingly in favor of that. The economy will tank, yes. But they’ll just blame Democrats and the voters will eat it up.

    Don’t believe me? gestures at Tuesday.

    That’s assuming we have another election at all. Trump – A man, remember, that has repeatedly said that terminating the Constitution was on the table – now has the White House, both branches of government, a supreme court largely appointed by him, and several state governments. Moderate republicans have been successfully rooted out or marginalized. Trump could very well follow through on that promise, backdropped by the thunderous applause of the other two branches of government.

    • TimeSquirrel
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      1316 days ago

      Suspending or terminating the Constitution by the federal government is definitely a good reason for secession if I’ve ever seen one. I hope California and other such states are thinking hard about their future here. That would be the last act of the United states.

      • @Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world
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        616 days ago

        Oh, I’m not saying it would be a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. Secessions would be the least we’d have to worry about.

        I’m just saying that in a world where Trump has seriously and repeatedly suggested it, his voting base has actively said they’re OK with it, and all 3 branches are firmly and securely in his pocket, Trump going so far as to actually suspending the Constitution is a very, very real possibility. Especially if he’s being advised by an administration stacked from top to bottom with Trump yes-men and crazies that make Qanon conspiracy theorists seem sane.

    • @Zak@lemmy.world
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      4616 days ago

      The trend is that when the economy is bad for the average person, it hurts the incumbent.

      I don’t think the people whose votes swung the election in Trump’s favor know how tariffs work or what policies Musk has in mind. They don’t even know why eggs are expensive (bird flu); they just know things were cheaper last time Trump was president.

      Of course that’s assuming there’s a free and fair election next time around.

      • @inclementimmigrant@lemmy.worldOP
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        16 days ago

        And these goldfish forgot that gas prices were low because of a botched COVID response that way, way reduced demand and rocketed back up because we all got out of lockdown and demand went back to normal, at least that was partly why the prices went up.

        • @Zak@lemmy.world
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          516 days ago

          A bit of that, a bit of ordinary inflation, and a bit of Putin’s war. I find it unlikely the current president had reasonable options to prevent any of that.

        • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod
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          Complaining that people don’t know how economics work and that they have the memory of a goldfish is like complaining that knights move weird in chess.

          These are the rules of the game we’re trying to win. Whining about how stupid everyone is doesn’t change the fact that we need to get stupid people to vote.

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod
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      1616 days ago

      And Americans voted ovewhelmingly in favor of that.

      I really hate that I’m seeing this everywhere. Americans overwhelmingly didn’t vote. Yes, according to math that means they voted for Trump, but why they didn’t bother to vote is a lot more important. Yes, that means they’re responsible for what happens, but if Democrats can’t get people to vote for them how do they expect to win?

      • UristMcHolland
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        16 days ago

        Not voting is the same thing as voting for a Republican. The odds are already stacked against any progressive candidate because conservatives are more willing to open their wallets to corporate donors. Non-voters are traitors just the same. They failed to accept their civic duty.

      • @boydster@sh.itjust.works
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        16 days ago

        If Democrats can’t point at a fascist and say, “Look, I’m running against a literal fascist. You and I may disagree on some things, but we all know fascists are bad” while Trump aligns himself with other autocrats and fascists, then what is even happening in this world? We failed ourselves on election day. Trump has made himself known. A majority of voters picked him, and they collectively either completely ignored reality for the last decade or decided they’re on board with his vision. The party isn’t to blame, when the alternative was so foul. People chose this, whether through ignorance or malice. Make no mistake, both made an appearance

    • @Hideakikarate@sh.itjust.works
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      1316 days ago

      I already had a trucker come into work saying the Dems have been propping up the economy and it’ll fail for God-Emperor Cheeto. Already making excuses.

  • @futatorius@lemm.ee
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    1716 days ago

    The Democrats won’t win until and unless they grow a spine. This is not a situation where genteel institutionalists are needed: we need people with principles, discipline, drive and focus, who won’t stop fighting until the corruption is completely rooted out.

  • @Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
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    1015 days ago

    The problem is, the economy will rally in 2025 because of rampant deregulation. That rally will be marketed as “a booming economy”, even if it’s tanking by midterms. This will fuck our midterms chances. I hope I am wrong, but it seems obvious to me.

    • @BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world
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      1916 days ago

      And absolutely no memory. I keep seeing “I was better off four years ago.” Really? We were in the middle of a pandemic that was so badly mismanaged that we suffered a higher death rate than any other developed economy, and caused all the issues Biden has worked four years to untangle.

      • @Grapho@lemmy.ml
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        116 days ago

        I don’t know how to tell you this, but the third who voted democrat are at fault for repeatedly letting dems know they’d vote blue no matter who.

        Not everyone wants to vote in Mussolini to avoid getting Hitler.

    • Curious Canid
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      216 days ago

      Americans do have a spine. The problem is that too many of them are no longer connected by functioning brains. Those spines are what elected Trump.

  • @Questy@lemmy.world
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    12316 days ago

    Having elected a fascist autocrat, who already prepared the way by having the supreme court declare him above the law. Living in the country with the most militarized police, a nation with a massive capability to spy on it’s own citizens, citizens who have little critical thinking capability to begin with. A society where social media creates the reality those poorly educated citizens live in, and social media is owned by oligarchs who benefit from a system where pleasing one narcissistic leader gives them power over regulators and increases their wealth more rapidly. I think people are a little optimistic to believe we can’t call the next election today.

    • @Foreigner@lemmy.world
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      6216 days ago

      Ding ding ding! This is the right answer folks. US citizens will be lucky to get fair elections (if at all) for the foreseeable future. There is no counterweight to what lies ahead, the doors to hell have been opened and no one is coming to save you. If you are in the US, you have the following choices: leave, survive (read: assimilate or hide), or fight.

      • @Asafum@feddit.nl
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        2316 days ago

        If you are in the US, you have the following choices: leave, survive (read: assimilate or hide), or fight.

        If you’re wealthy and worth a shit you can leave. No country on earth worth moving to will accept my worthless factory worker ass…

        I just watched a video about “easiest countries for an American to move to” and was infuriated… I was expecting countries with low standards for acceptance except this is all it was:

        1)digital nomad and retirees

        2)digital nomad and retirees

        3)digital nomad and retirees

        4)digital nomad and retirees

        5)digital nomad and retirees

        …for fucks sake those people already have the world to choose from… Guess I’ll just suffer.

        • @Foreigner@lemmy.world
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          1616 days ago

          I’m sorry, it mega sucks and unfortunately you can only pick from the other two remaining options. If you’re not part of the targeted minorities or vocally a part of the opposition, here are some tips on assimilation:

          • Keep your head down and keep a low profile
          • Stay out of any media attention at all costs
          • Be VERY careful with who you trust - denunciations are a common tool used by fascist governments to find targets. Avoid pissing off anyone who could throw you to the wolves.
          • Button up any communications that could ever be construed as a slight against the ruling party. That means getting off social media, browsing and communicating on the internet completely anonymously, stop using devices and software that can spy on you. Wipe anything that can be interpreted as criticism of the ruling party that can be connected to you.
          • Keep any documents with proof of citizenship on you at all times
          • Start sounding like you’ve always supported the party and their ideas, or that you’ve suddenly “seen the way” and agree with them now.
          • This one is riskier in the long term as fascists eventually start eating one another, but if you can, try to get a low level position in the party. Something inconsequential like cleaning, paperwork, etc.

          Essentially, start studying what other people did to survive under similarly oppressive regimes. The change won’t happen overnight, but if this is going the way I think it’s going, your access to options will become increasingly limited so do what you can now to get ready.

          Alternatively, wait until it becomes clear that you’re a political target, travel somewhere where you can get refugee status and claim asylum once you’re there. You don’t want to leave this until it’s too late, and it’ll get increasingly harder to do, but there’s no way to tell yet what the trigger could be.

          • @dhork@lemmy.world
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            616 days ago

            Keep any documents with proof of citizenship on you at all times

            US Passport cards are really handy for that. all the identity power of a passport book, but in a card you can keep in your wallet. Anyone who “looks foreign” at all should get one and carry it with you at all times. You shouldn’t have to, but you should anyway.

            • knightly the Sneptaur
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              315 days ago

              The Orange Hitler is on track to take power and you wanna put up a flag to support America’s Chancellor Paul von Hindenburg. XD

      • @militaryintelligence@lemmy.world
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        I’ll fight. There’s a line that I draw: if they start deporting legal immigrants I will be a domestic terrorist, just like the GOP

        Strange, I can’t find a picture of the banner that said exactly that at cpac. Just like the GOP said, nah I’m just kidding

    • @fluxion@lemmy.world
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      Well we can bend over and spread our cheeks or we can at least make it as difficult as possible and maintain whatever last rays of hope that we can. It’s the least we can do if we really are the last real American citizens.

      Trump certainly didn’t roll over and apparently that pays off in surprising ways sometimes.

    • @zephorah@lemm.ee
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      2216 days ago

      I think they’re a little optimistic to assume any elections that aren’t Putin style going forward. We are done as We The People. The American Experiment is over.

      That feeling in your belly? That need to huddle with your people, in closeness and silence? It’s the waiting room. Because you don’t know what we are going to be yet, but it’s not going to be a democracy and it’s not going to be America.

      Wishful thinking is part of how we got here.

      • @treefrog@lemm.ee
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        16 days ago

        Putin style elections are exactly the plan. I don’t expect Trump to live long though and I don’t expect his cult of personality to live after him.

        But, reclaiming any sort of democracy from the autocrats will be very difficult. The damage was done Tuesday. And it will take generations for this country to recover, if it does it all.

        • @zephorah@lemm.ee
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          1116 days ago

          It’s easy to break stuff. Building up the United States of America again? Probably not. Rome has fallen.

          Worse, this creates a giant power vacuum globally. We’re already seeing bits of it from his last presidency in Russia and Israel.

        • @fluxion@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          We are certainly in a stronger position than woman when they had no right to vote, or black Americans during the civil rights era.

          I know this is bad but we can’t be whiny bitches about it and give up the moment the scale tips in their favor.

          Freedom is still a strong message that can resonate. Professionalism and sound economic policy too. I suspect they will be even more greatly appreciated by then…

          Sure, fake elections are a possibility, but with overwhelming exit polling and local activists doing everything they can to provide accurate vote tallies we can at least make it abundantly clear if 2028 ends up stolen. Illegitimate power leaves MAGA exposed to a broad range of potential challenges.

          Or maybe not.

          But at least be ready for that moment if it comes and don’t actively discourage others from doing the same. If MAGA can fight this hard for complete bullshit nonsense from some billionaire that openly manipulates them, then we can fight harder for the rights of our children and future generations.

          • @treefrog@lemm.ee
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            316 days ago

            I’m not discouraging anybody from acting. Compassion in the moment is always the way and we need to organize to minimize the suffering regardless.

            Climate change is here. And the election went the way it did. Nations are impermanent like everything else.

            That was my point about the country possibly never recovering. We need to organize outside of electoral politics in our local communties.

            The Democrats can’t save us and they weren’t doing a good job with the to begin with. Hopefully they will use the filibuster to minimize the worst of it.

    • @zbyte64
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      Big difference between this and 2016 is JD Vance is the adult, not Mike Pence. His ties to Peter Thiel is scary. Also we just had a billionaire buy votes, no way that is going to stop now.