The conversations are amazing
There’s a bunch of Chinese posts asking if the stuff about school shootings, fires, homelessness are exaggerated propaganda only to be told otherwise. It’s both hilarious and sad.
People of the US and China are both unsure of what to believe about the other, because both are so propagandized lol
Who told you that the people of China are propagandized, especially to hate other countries and peoples as much as the US does?
Their access to news is controlled and for some topics all available news is what we’d call propaganda. Particularly anything about Japan or the Taiwan issue. Most people I know there realize this to an extent but without any other information do still believe the core idea even if skeptical of details.
But at the same time I’d argue there’s no such thing as a population that’s not propagandized. In the US the big news corporations only will present views favorable to their profitability and continued growth. Sure they disagree with eachother, but it’s still always a pro-business view. State news from Russia is (I’d argue rightly) not available on many US platforms to discourage it’s influence for example.
The US does NOT have a free press and is not at all interested in freedom and free speech. Notice that there are no socialists or leftists of any kind on any news channel or in political leadership positions.
This is just untrue. There is plenty of legal press in the US of any persuasion, from anarchist to fascist.
The major US news outlets are in bed with capitalists because that’s where the money is, but there are lots of smaller outlets with other views. In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
This is what our media tell us about their media. In every country the media kowtow to the government to some extent, but I’m not sure to exactly what extent they actually do in China, and I’m not going to take our media’s word for what that extent is.
If you do not know the extent of pressure asserted on Chinese media that is willful ignorance.
Of course “our media” (whatever you mean by that) is the only media that can report on it as Chinese media is heavily censored.
If you want to know the extent the information easy to find.
Here’s some of what Reporters Without Borders have to say
“The People’s Republic of China (PRC) is the world’s largest prison for journalists, and its regime conducts a campaign of repression against journalism and the right to information worldwide.”
“The Propaganda Department of the Chinese Communist Party sends a detailed notice to all media every day that includes editorial guidelines and censored topics.”
“Independent journalists and bloggers who dare to report “sensitive” information are often placed under surveillance, harassed, detained, and, in some cases, tortured.”
Source: https://rsf.org/en/country/china
This is from The Committee to Protect Journalists
“China has long ranked as one of the world’s worst jailers of journalists. Censorship makes the exact number of journalists jailed there notoriously difficult to determine, but Beijing’s media crackdown has widened in recent years”
Here’s Amnesty International
“Chinese authorities continued to severely curtail rights to freedoms of expression, association and peaceful assembly, including through the abusive application of laws often under the pretext of preserving national security.”
Source: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/east-asia/china/report-china/
Mostly agree with this take. I just wanted to add some nuance. I was talking to a friend about Gaza/Israel-protests in my country and said that the media doesn’t show everything. He then told a story about the protests that was supposedly not covered in the media. However, I had literally just read about that story in my newspaper.
Point is, there is some freedom of press (at least in my country) and the press is fairly pluralistic. However, to really find out what’s going on you need to read i.) several sources, and ii.) continue to focus on events after journalists took the effort to dig down. That’s a big ask for many people. And the stories that come out first tend to be most biased.
the stories that come out first tend to be most biased
I honestly think the concept of news is actually harmful, because it’s about reporting what happened, not about making the audience understand the subject. It puts a premium on getting the report out as quickly as possible, and favours the most shocking events and interpretations that draw people’s attention.
Ultimately most news are “empty calories” of information that mostly give an illusion of knowledge. “Explosion in Herptown, dozens wounded” does not meaningfully increase your understanding of the world, it mostly just makes you scared. It will take weeks until the cause and consequences of the explosion can be fully understood, and a lot of research to put that into perspective.
Ofc there is no such thing as an un-propagandized country. There are lobbyists and think tanks everywhere
Scroll down, addressed this three times in this thread already.
You mean how both China, and the US propagandize their citizens? Yeah, I’m fully aware of that already. All states will do it, as a system of control over the working class, in order to continue to exploit them.
I mean, if controlling the people wasn’t the goal, whats the purpose of the oppression of a state?
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huge false equivalence
Friends of mine who have moved away from China. One of them had police at their door in China for social media posts that were friendly to Uyghurs (not even anything to do with the genocide, just general friendliness as a “we’re all Chinese” kind of message). Being taken to police stations for even slightly questioning the state narrative is terrifying.
Source: I heard it in a dream
Source: a friend of mine personally telling me what happened the last time he was in mainland China.
Woah I never recognized your username in the wild before. Thanks for giving us Lemmy. Huge fan.
No probs!
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You don’t know what Chinese people do or don’t know. You only know what Western governments and Western corporate media tell you Chinese people do or don’t know.
There’s nothing secret about what happened in Xinjiang. People are well aware of the terrorist attacks and of how the local and federal governments’ responded to them.
Already debunked this ~ 6 times in this thread so far.
You just made that up. You genuinely have no idea what the Chinese perception of the uyghur imprisonment is. In fact you’ve gone out of your way to call their prison system a “work camp”. I’m not even saying that it’s not a work camp. What I am saying is you wouldn’t call American prisons a work camp despite also being used for mass slave labor.
Thank goodness for the modlog! You are right on. Just because American propaganda is bad doesn’t mean Chinese isn’t bad too or that we have to defend it. Everyone should be held accountable.
I’m reminded of that ex Soviet joke about how they always knew the government was lying about their own countries but were shocked to learn it was telling the truth about america
Circle jerking about China is as ridiculous as circle jerking about the US. We’ve been here before with US vs USSR, but this time everyone has a megaphone and an IQ that can be measured with a ruler.
You keep on coping there little buddy. What’s happening is that regular people from both countries are now talking directly to each other, and finding out what life is actually like.
Uhhh, not exactly regular people. From what I’ve seen from the Rednote, at least my feed is wealthy upper-middle or upper class, while the Americans are from low to middle class.
not what I see in my feed, might depend on the interests you picked and whom you followed, etc
That’s because via GDP those two are at the same level even though they are different levels in their own country.
what was preventing them from doing it before?
Lack of will on the part of Americans to engage on Chinese platforms like Xiaohongshu. The looming TikTok ban is what pushed people over the edge.
tiktok is chinese tho so where were all the chinese users?
TikTok is a Chinese built platform, but it’s built strictly for users outside of China. The Chinese version of TikTok is Douyin. You could’ve googled this yourself in the time it took you to write this comment.
Why are hexbears so rude, all I did was ask questions
disclaimer
This is a bit. I know you’re not on hexbear and I don’t think you’re rude. I’m just parroting the line a lot of smug libs say upion getting rightly called out for behaving like assholes
I love how these types of trolls think they’re being very sophisticated.
At first I downvoted, then I saw username@hexbear, then I laughed and upvoted.
Why? Tiktok is availabe in multiple countries with completely different language, culture and laws so why not China? Why have a different version of the app specifically for china?
I’m curious, what does this line of questioning have to do with my original comment?
Because censorship lmao
If what you’re trying to get at is that whereas it is very important to unlearn the lies and exaggerations one was told about a country, that people also need to avoid replacing these lies with an overly simplistic and uncritical understanding of that same country, and that the current social media landscape makes it very difficult for many people to have the necessary nuance to avoid this pitfall… Then I would agree with you, but I’d also tell you that mentioning the eugenicists’ favorite way of measuring “intelligence” is a very bad way of phrasing this idea, and that your standards of what counts as “circle-jerking” about a country are probably not nearly as inviting of nuance as you’d think.
…mentioning the eugenicists’ favorite way of measuring “intelligence” is a very bad way of phrasing this idea…
100% agree. The IQ thing is a tired and lazy joke. I need to work on a replacement for that old jab.
Make a point you verbose idiot. You said literally nothing of enough substance to know what’s in your little rat brain.
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At least I can articulate what I’m mad about ya fuckin loser
Yes I am annoyed at someone making a stupid statement, proudly exhibiting their lack of knowledge and xenophobia. Why exactly do you think it is a bad thing to be able to be emotionally affected?
It appears that the general tone of this thread is an attempt at serious and jovial discussion, which entails empathy and taking each other seriously.
Would you rather not be taken seriously? Why?
Would you rather be treated with apathy? Why?deleted by creator
Holy 2005 meme. Hit them with a Nyancat next, that will really own them.
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Niether Moscow or Washington, but somehow Washington actually
Wow those sure are some thoughts you managed to have. Big boys and girl and gems usually like to talk to each other and listen. You should try it. Use your words. What is your critique of the USSR and why do you perceive “realising we’ve been propagandised about china” as being akin to a circle of people masturbating?
As a Polish person, if you say anything good about USSR without acknowledging it was shit stealing, people murdering, generation destroying piece of shit, I’d like to invite you to talk to some of the old people who remember, read diarys or fucking analysis.
Do you know they even decimated our fucking cuisine?
Sorry if you weren’t implying anything positive about USSR, I have short fuse here.
How would you have survived Generalplan Ost?
“The Soviet Union liberated Europe from fascism, and Europe will never forgive them for it.”
Why is it that every time I visit Poland there is fascist propaganda everywhere I look?
Maybe you should do something about that instead of whining about the USSR.
As a Polish person
I can lie about my nationality and make shit up too Mr FBI agent.
Also the idea that old Polish people are a monolith is bloody fantastic.
Idk everyone I know IRL that lived in the USSR speaks of it extremely fondly. Especially during the big failure to respond to covid epidemic.
I’d love to talk to more old people who overwhelmingly say life was better under the USSR. I’d love to talk to more people who voted to keep the USSR and got couped into a hellish decade of shock doctrine.
Yeah the ebil gommulist came and killed your food I read it in the NED funded Atlantic article. Christ you, of all people, should possess some level of ability to realize you’ve been lied to. “Oh things weren’t great back then, so that means it’s actually good we have child prostitution a cratering vaccination rate and so much more”. Or are we going to the route of how things got super good because of EU membership? Ah yeah that shit is going great. But yeah the USSR wasn’t perfect, so let’s just gargle all the propaganda we can get and whenever we hear anything positive then it’s either just regular old person nostalgia or an uninformed westerner or whichever other excuse you can pull out of your ass so you can continue brain-deadedly glorifiyng western Europe. Nevermind the fact France still dictates the financial policy of several African countries, which is just the tip of a very very very large iceberg.
Sorry I just get annoyed when people talk out of their ass and think “I come from an eastblock country” means anything, as if we aren’t amongst those who have been stepped on by the American boot most of all.
Shame on you.What’s your point? The west is shit? Not arguing here.
USSR good? Any old Polish people saying that? I’d love to meet them and check if they weren’t high positioned in the Party at that time.
Edit: I wonder if a thought that some people might be missing USSR might be because of old propaganda materials ever visited you?
Edit: I wonder if a thought that some people might be missing USSR might be because of old propaganda materials ever visited you?
I think it’s so nice that this CIA propaganda LLM thinks any American has ever even had access to USSR propaganda, like the New York Times just published some KGB-written articles to make a few bucks with their spare paper.
TIL if someone’s saying something that doesn’t agree with your worldview then that person must be an LLM.
If the USSR apologist I was replying too had talked to old people claiming to remember USSR fondly, then either they remember the propaganda, or they youth fondly, or they were in the party. My grandma started remembering USSR kinda fondly when she was getting too old to function by herself.
And you need to work on your reading comprehension if you read my post as USA being affected by old USSR propaganda - I meant the (now) old people who lived then.
TIL if someone’s saying something that doesn’t agree with your worldview then that person must be an LLM.
Wow, that must be a frustrating thing to experience over and over and over and over and over. You have my sympathy as a comminist on the internet, who could only imagine such treatment
The amount of literal
I see come out the mouths of Estonians, who are tied for Poland for being the biggest NATO-hitler-particle-collider fanatics in Europe, has only really made me more supportive of the USSR.Btw, hoping that “Anus Walrus” dies soon,
How would you have survived Generalplan Ost?
It’s funny that you think anyone cares about your opinion or your fascist shithole of a country.
lol someone tattled on you
that makes it all worth it
Sorry for being pedantic, but those foldable work rulers are exactly 2 m long (at least in MetricLandia), which is, incidentally, the span of IQ values (0-200).
So yeah, it literally can be mapped one-to-one to a (common type of) ruler.
This is a common ruler where you live?
In my country we have rulers with 12 in/ ~30cm as the most common. We also have “yardstick” which is more often a meter stick now. But no foldable rulers.
Yeah.
The 30 cm is ubiquitous for officework or drawing, while this is for tiling floors, doing plumbing, measuring walls, roofs, etc. etc… There are also those retractable coils (usually 2 or 5m), but they tend to break easily and collapse under their own weight, so they’re not as useful for some things.
I can find one like this in basically any hardware store with few exceptions (Austria). They’re almost exclusively 2m in length (I literally haven’t seen a longer or shorter one ever in my life)
Also, a meter stick sounds workable, but borderline impractical.
Yup. There are like 3 types of rulers: normal (a stick), foldable (this) and those retractable metallic strips.
Sticks are usually either 15 or 30 cm, while the foldables are literally always 2m.
The coils are the most ubiquitous, but I orefer the foldavles for most things since they tend to fall undet their own weight when measuring longer distances. These sre either 2 or 5 m I think.
We have the coils too, except we call it a measuring tape.
We also have have a flexible soft version used for measuring human proportions for clothing, but it’s called a “tape measure” for some reason.
I wish we had the foldable kind, that sounds useful.
It’s honestly very wholesome to see this kind of interaction. On top of cute moments like Chinese users telling the new US users that they are their “spies,” seeing a lot of blatant myth dispelling surrounding the PRC is great to help tear down the Red Scare.
tbf the people who will download this app are not scared by China in the first place
I was told that I was a spy in RL. Why would a European person learn Chinese? Clearly spy.
My own father asked me unironically if I was a “Chinese sympathizer” over dinner last night, and that was not the end of it.
Oh interesting! But very different experience, I was called a spy by Chinese people.
Edit: nevermind, he is just being rude.
Oh, sorry to mislead, let me clarify: I am being dismisive, and do not care about you
It really is like 50s anti-soviet paranoia
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For real imagine living in a country where a faceless entity logs all of your financial activity without your consent and distills that information to summarize a person’s character into a numerical score used to lock people out of securing housing or finding work, dystopian nightmare
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Facebook turned over chat messages between mother and daughter now charged over abortion.
This woman is serving two years in prison. But yeah, tell us how the US isn’t “Orwellian”.
If you have bad credit in the US, it prevents you from getting housing, or even renting an apartment.
As people posted to you several times, china’s credit score exists to keep tabs on companies, and prevent excesses and corruption. Basic regulatory things that the US used to do in a few decades ago, but is now considered “authoritarian”.
If you have bad credit in the US, it prevents you from getting housing, or even renting an apartment.
it also prevents you from getting a job nowadays and more and more employers are insisting on it.
It’s kinda weird honestly, capitalists should like when the worker is in debt because then the worker would be more desperate to get a job and agree on worse conditions. not to mention entire system is set up to put workers into debts and thus prevent them from organising and instead forcing them to work more for less.
it’s another filter
Read beyond that point. The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there’s no such thing.
As I responded to you elsewhere, I did read beyond that point. Are you sure that you did?
I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a “social credit score”, and gave more details about how it’s administered.
Basically, the headline is “no, it’s not at all what you’ve heard”, and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I’m not sure your point about “there’s no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere” is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.”
If that’s not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that’s not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that’s exactly how it works doesn’t serve your argument. And “well but the West is totally lying, maaan” isn’t proof; it’s an unverified claim by a random internet commenter.
No, it does not describe “exactly as what the western media depicted.” The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize.
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I literally live in China. The scores apply to businessmen and not the average citizen. China isn’t North Sentinel Island, you can literally come here.
So which part of this do you think is the part that addresses the clear and salient arguments you’re arguing against?
There’s also no credit-score check in the US for job applications, so no, it doesn’t “lock people out of finding work.”
Employers may use credit report information to verify an applicant’s identity and to look for signs of excessive debt or past financial mismanagement. Source: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/why-employers-check-your-credit-report-and-what-they-see/
Employers discriminate very openly against applicants for a variety of reasons. Nepotism is one such way, AI filtering is an emergent way - there are plenty of other practices.
Good luck getting a job if you were ever convicted of a crime, no matter how innocuous, or even had a police report filed against you (for certain jobs with clearances) - with no convictions, evidence, or arrest. Even being arrested with charges dropped can disqualify you effectively.
And you better believe if you actually got arrested, every local newspaper has doxxed you - with full name, mug shot, even potentially your employment history and rough home address. All it takes is a name to get somebody’s address because people search websites exist to compile all of the wonderful publicly available information.
Use your critical thinking skills, imagine a bus in a city of 10 million people during rush hour at a busy stop – do you honestly think they’re checking everyone’s credit score before they get on? This shit is fake you have been duped
And how exactly would an individual be subject to oversight in matters like “taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments”? I know we have citizens united but corporations are not people lol
Use your critical thinking skills, imagine a bus in a city of 10 million people during rush hour at a busy stop – do you honestly think they’re checking everyone’s credit score before they get on? This shit is fake you have been duped
Again, citation needed. “There’s literally no way an internet-connected society that already requires payment to board a bus, usually via something like tap-to-pay, could ever possibly check your ID against a list of IDs before you get on the bus” is not convincing. Evidence is convincing, and I’ve seen none so far. I’ve only seen an article reporting that it actually happens.
The quote you’re saying is ridiculous is from the article provided describing how the social credit system actually works in real life. If you can give me a credible source that demonstrates this isn’t happening (instead of just your own lack of imagination to conceptualize tech that is already broadly implemented worldwide) then maybe that’d be more convincing than “I can’t personally imagine how that would work, so it’s impossible!”
A still from some random persons shitty travel blog taken 6 months ago of her getting on the bus in China. What do you think that box is for, cookies for the driver?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Ie9HYWejc
Feel free to watch for yourself, this is around minute 23. It took me 30 seconds to find this
By the way exchanges like this is why many people on left instances are outright hostile to liberals, making outlandish claims while being too fucking lazy to do even the bare minimum of independent research, racism to discount the voices of the people who are actually fucking from there saying ‘no this is bullshit’
Like who are you going to believe a regurgitation of a state department talking point or a website full of normal ass Chinese people
I know the answer bc like all liberals you are racist and intellectually lazy
I live in China. You put ¥2 into the slot and you get on. You can be wearing a fully balaclava, a face mask, or nothing. No-ones running ID on you to make sure your magical score is high enough before you are allowed to get on. You can get a transit token so you can tap on if you’re cashless. They’re sold without ID checks, foreigners can get them without speaking a word of Mandarin.
You have been lied to and now you’re repeating those lies on the internet without even getting paid.
¥2
u fukin wot
that’s 10p
I can’t get a bus 200m for less than a pound
Again, citation needed.
But not if it’s you saying racist shit lmao
Alright, then let’s see the citations
I know we have citizens united but corporations are not people lol
Citizens United didn’t make corporations people. Corporate personhood had been a thing for a very long time, largely about whether or not forming a business means you lose legal rights operating under it (Does a business entity have freedom of speech? What does freedom of the press even mean in an 18th century context if it doesn’t apply to a business [aka a newspaper]?) and whether or not regular old laws prohibiting a person from doing a thing can be applied to businesses.
Ok
Does this “being obtuse so as to not have to engage with an argument” shtick normally work?
Why would such a feature need facial recognition? Just use the ID on the travel pass and done - cheaper, faster, and harder to fake if done properly.
The bus and metro passes are literally transferrable because they’re just a token not tied to any ID. Also they accept cash, and you can buy passes at a kiosk.
I have personally even purchased a metro ticket for another person because we were going somewhere together and they left theirs at home. Within the last 2 weeks.
You have been lied to. There are no WMDs in Iraq, MSG isn’t toxic, and Napoleon wasn’t short either, if you just blatantly swallow everything you see.
Instead of speculating on how it could be done, show us how it actually is done.
Here, drew a picture of you
Imagine having the internet at your disposal, being able to immediately investigate your own assumptions, but instead you choose to just state blatantly wrong things and then get mad when you’re called out for it.Consider wether digging a hole and then staying in it would be right for you. Consult your doctor
If I have bad credit in the US, I don’t get locked out of riding the bus
You might!
I know a lot of areas are switching to digital-only bus fares, and those, of course, require a bank card or credit card…
Guess what can lock you out of getting those, and thereby, riding on the bus?
There’s also no credit-score check in the US for job applications, so no, it doesn’t “lock people out of finding work.”
Do you live in the US? Lots of employers run credit checks as a part of their normal background checking. I’ve see people fired for bad credit scores.
no “Winnie the Pooh” refs
“they won’t let me call the chinese man yellow” good, die madremoved by mod
fuck off racist shitbag
You’re the one who wrongly assumed it was about race, not me.
i’m not here to judge how chinese people use memes. i’m here to tell you, a racist, to eat shit
You’re the only one talking about race, here, making you the racist.
Dutch guy getting beat up after doing blackface: “Waah! It’s a important cultural practice! You don’t understand, it has nothing to do with race, Dutch people just have folklore stories about dark skinned fantasy creatures coming and stealing our stuff! You’re the ones making it about race!”
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did you just step off a tardis from 2015talking about race doesn’t make someone a racist. comparing chinese people to yellow-skinned cartoon animals does.
New tagline dropped @CARCOSA@hexbear.net
go back to reddit you deplorable shitbag
This tactic didn’t work in kindergarten either. Try to move on and grow up
wasnt the whole thing literally started by chinese people? were all those weibo users cia assets or people with internalized racism?
Black people started using the n word among themselves casually, doesn’t mean other people can just copy it and shield themselves from accusations of racism by saying Black people were doing it first.
so comparing xi to pooh is the same as calling a black person the n word? i wonder if chinese or asian people hold the same opinion
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And are you Chinese?
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I’m happy you’ve got a Chinese friend that tells you it’s okay to be racist.
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The fact that you’re unwilling to acknowledge the fact that this redditor shibboleth got popular amongst a bunch of white people has nothing to do with them finding yet another socially acceptable way to be racist is telling a lot we already knew about you.
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If a reactionary org of black people (I dunno of one but I’m sure there’s some church or something) had satirically depicted Obama as curious George, do you think you could get away with calling him a monkey without being (rightfully) called a racist?
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To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to.
As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it’s largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system.
Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it “good enough?”
It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting.
Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments.
These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China.
Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there’s no such thing.
It’s besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says “Social credit. We don’t have this at all” and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes.
They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist.
The western depiction simply does not exist.
I can and will not argue this point since I lack the proper knowledge on the subject.
We all agree on the fact that a system exists.
From the post:
“Social credit. We don’t have this at all” is a lie. Again, I am not saying anything about how to system works or how it is preceived. I am saying that it exists and the post claimed it does not, nothing else.
That makes it propaganda to me.
TL;DR:
- The post claims that something that exists does not. This is a fact.
- I believe this to be propaganda in some form. This is an opinion.
It’s overwhelmingly clear that you need to do more legwork to prove that that user genuinely thinks there is no credit score, and is not directly responding to the Orwellian version. This is clearly taking a dogmatic reading of one sentence to come up with the absurd claim that Chinese citizens believe that publicly stated policy doesn’t actually exist.
I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a “social credit score”, and gave more details about how it’s administered.
Basically, the headline is “no, it’s not at all what you’ve heard”, and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I’m not sure your point about “there’s no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere” is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.”
If that’s not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that’s not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that’s exactly how it works doesn’t serve your argument. And “well but the West is totally lying, maaan” isn’t proof; it’s an unverified claim by a random internet commenter.
No, it does not describe “exactly as what the western media depicted.” The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize.
So why do you do what you’re trying to do? For what purpose?
bro is a fed or just an average american who can’t read
This “being obtuse and belligerent” thing that all you dumbasses do is honestly sad. What’s sadder is that it’s not only encouraged and rewarded in your echo chambers.
The western forum is a sad state of affairs really. Just chock full of the most obvious and base level rhetorical parlor tricks. Wish you worms at least had to do basic work, but you do a debate club when you’re 8 and you never move on. To quote the president: SAD
Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
In the Wikipedia article itself:
There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit “score” based on individuals’ behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit “score” is a myth as there is “no score that dictates citizen’s place in society”.[7]
It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia.
More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources.
It’s too bad the people of China aren’t allowed to edit Wikipedia, and correct the facts, because of their oppressive state.
Wikipedia
Can you site a source more credible than a crowd sourced encyclopedia run by Americans
*feds. and the criteria for a credible source for them as they need to be western-aligned media. it’s a complete joke.
The invisible white supremacy at the center of liberalism: “You can’t believe what those people say about their country; they’re inherently untrustworthy. Only the word of white people is credible.”
When they reference Xi negatively they use Palpatine or some literary villain as a comparison. Using a yellow bear beloved by most of the world seems counter productive. Imagine if people compared Hitler to Charlie Chaplain due to likeness and not, say, Satan.
I mean, he did actually portray him…
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imagine making social media so bad your own citizens actively procure your biggest rival’s networks.
Imagine allowing citizens to be so free that they can go to your biggest rival’s social media to read narratives favouring them, get influenced by rival propaganda, and then shit you on your percieved weak points.
Lmao
Eh, there’s truth and lies on both sides. Coming from someone that lived in china for 4 years and was able to engage with Chinese primary news sources. But basic healthcare in china is faster and cheaper, but then again I went to get a wart removed and they prescribed me acorn paste that accelerated the growth of the wart. So win some lose some.
As a civ player, I know a cultural victory when I see one.
People are people no matter where they live, which also means you can’t trust any government anywhere. Propaganda is powerful.
The idea of a social credit score has always been hilarious to me, like yo bros we have credit scores over here and they legitimately fuck us over since you need good credit to do alot of things like renting a place to live.
Norway actually does.
Source: Am norwegiam. Am parent.In the US? Lol, no.
Source: I work with a bunch of Texans.Belgium: 4 months, better than nothing I guess
If only…
:lionel-hutz: oh whoops, they forgot the punctuation. It’s supposed to say
“Americans have a year paid? Maternity? Leave!”“And our tests have concluded, that this is, in fact, a lie.”
If by maternity leave they mean mysteriously fired before they can have the baby then yes?
No. So many goods cannot be produced by children, it is inefficient.
New tagline dropped
Lol people actually believed that social credit score bullshit?
American here, yes. To be fair I don’t think about China a lot.
Just goes to show you how deeply permeating the Red Scare is. Reminds me of that “exploding helmets” story that was obviously bogus but peddled as though it was true.
That’s one I never even heard of until now! I’m not surprised that the CIA-backed Falun Gong’s Epoch Times covered it: China Develops Helmets for Soldiers With Self-Destruct Button: Report. You can just make up any zany thing about the US’s designated baddies, and people will buy it.
Yep, I remember that one as it came out. Super silly.
You have credit scores in the US?
We have real credit scores in the US that keep people unhoused
Yes, that’s the sad truth. It doesn’t have to be a government program to be a systemic issue.
But… social credit literally is real… There are government legislations on this. It is not a conspiracy theory.
On the other hand Western media definitely has exaggerated and demonized it a lot. The social credit is basically your credit score, but it is more expansive and uses information some might see as encroaching on their personal privacy and freedoms.
The credit score in China is to keep tabs on businesses to prevent corruption and excesses, just basic things the US used to do back in the 1950s, but would now be considered “authoritarian”.
The credit scores in the US are used to prevent regular people from getting housing.
wdym by “basically your credit score”?
Plenty of people also still believe the secret Chinese police stations bullshit.
Never heard of mintpress. Looked it up and ooof. What a record
mintpress
From Wikipedia:
MintPress News supported former Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia and Iran.[3][4] It opposes the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia,[5] and reports geopolitical events from an anti-Western perspective.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
And
Further, they have frequently promoted conspiracy theories and misinformation regarding Covid-19, such as this A DARPA-FUNDED IMPLANTABLE BIOCHIP TO DETECT COVID-19 COULD HIT MARKETS BY 2021.
Uh huh. Looked them up where, MB/FC? Quoting myself:
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.
This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
- Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
- Propaganda model
- Edward Bernays
- Walter Lippmann
- Council on Foreign Relations
- Powell Memorandum
- The Trilateral Commission’s report, The Crisis of Democracy
.
*I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:
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Yes, people genuinely believe that the social credit exists.
In America we call it the credit score…
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the average Chinese person barely knows just how much surveillance their government is doing on them (it’s a lot) or how much it impacts their daily lives (deeply).
Unlike you, of course. You, the enlightened Westerner, the true free thinker, know so much more than those orientals.
There’s a big difference between the commonly reported western idea of a social credit system, and the actual credit system that exists in China. Chiefly, it is primarily for businesses, not citizens. You’re making an error in attempting to equate the scope.
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First, don’t use that term to describe Chinese people, that has racist connotations.
As for your claim that the entire MO of the PRC’s government is “control for personal gain,” can you elaborate?
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Or skin tone.
And they believe Uyghur genocide too. They’re fucking brainwashed. They completely lack critical thinking capabilities.
Social credit scores were a thing. People were punished for low scores. It only happened in a few cities and it was described as a pilot.
Obviously the pilot got a lot of bad press in and outside China and it is no longer happening
I mean I feel real stupid reading into it, but up until now, yes
Indeed.
wow the level of cope in this thread (thankfully not that many tho) arguing over stats - which are probably made up anyway.
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
