I watched some of the transmission and all I can say is my respect to Zelensky grew tenfold with that exchange alone.
Having to interact with these two clowns and still keeping his cool (as much as he was able to) requires A LOT of patience and will. It was horrifyingly stupid in a train wreck kind of way.
Zelensky deserves every award there is for being able to keep his cool like that. I certainly wouldn’t have been able to.
Dude… I am saying this from the most unobjective place I can possibly manage. That was was of the most difficult and annoying things I’ve watched in a very long time. It honestly felt like watching a rational adult deal with his children complaining they can’t have a sleepover or something.
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast and B) zelensky actually remained remarkably calm.
Man what annoying people to talk with lol I’m trying so hard to see this from a different perspective but I can’t even fathom how that could be seen as anything other than rude and embarrassing.
“You haven’t even thanked us once” lmao
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast
Trump thinks strength is measured by how many people you confront and bully and threaten. He is not smart enough to realize this isn’t how it looks to people outside his bubble of sycophants and MAGA dummies. Elon Musk clearly thinks the same way, and both Musk and Trump crave the respect they will never earn, so they double down on their idiot edgelord/bully methods. The White House media office will be headed by Trump sycophants, who will see this exchange through MAGA eyes. They see a strong man where everyone else sees a pathetic manchild.
Same here. I actively avoid watching Trump or his administration talk so seeing both him and Vance during this meeting was… exhausting to say the least. I can only imagine what was going through Zelensky’s head throughout the whole thing. His face sure said a lot.
Man, don’t take a look at the conversations sub. They are all high fiving each other over this. For them it was a rush of masculinity and power live on TV. You’ve got folks saying that Vance never looked so good and how they want to name their first born over him.
Wait, really? Imo, JD had that “guy who’s been trying to turn a friend into a fuck for three years now” energy for Trump. I’m really surprised anybody saw that as masculine and powerful.
Did i dreamed or did at some point he mentioned Hunter Biden’s d!*k? You wouldn’t believe a movie with such a plot.
It honestly felt like watching a rational adult deal with his children complaining they can’t have a sleepover or something.
Except the children’s behavior will also get a lot of people killed and possibly a whole nation enslaved.
Indeed. He’s in an awful situation and has no good options. With only Europe (both politically and militarily) it will be real hard for them. OTOH with a blackmailed ‘deal’ with orange they loose a big piece of resources without any guarantees not to loose the rest to Russia or to the orange in a deal extension. To get out of this situation without a major loss would be a miracle, but hey, I really hope they make it.
If we’re lucky this will be (another) kick for the European leaders to get serious about a possibility of US bailing out completely. Maybe. Hopefully. Please?
fuck you america for voting for this fascist scumbag. nobody should trust you again.
Most of us want the shithead gone just as bad as you do, but too many dumbshits decided they’d rather not stop him because the alternative wasn’t perfect. I hate it here.
Most? He already was president and over 50% voted that guy into office again? How are most people against him?
He didn’t get 50% of the vote.
He won be cause either 6 million people didn’t vote or, to quote Trump, “[Elon] knows those computers better than anybody. All those computers. Those vote-counting computers. And we ended up winning Pennsylvania like in a landslide.”
A surprisingly large number of people don’t vote. I refuse to believe that anything approaching half of voting-age Americans support this. Unfortunately, here we are.
Everyone who didn’t vote supports this.
If as many people who turned up to vote would turn up to protest, things would change. Alas, liberals who think filling out the ballot is enough democracy for 4 years are not friends of democracy.
Of course liberals arent friends of democracy.
Liberals refuse to replace First past the post voting with a more representative electoral system in the blue states they control. You can see them here, in this thread, circlejerking over the fact that people are unrepresented by their options at the polls.
We will most likely be using FPTP voting for the mid terms, and these same blue conservatives will be howling about 3rd parties existing. All while doing nothing to fix the spoiler effect that is inherent in the mathematically flawed voting system most states use.
I don’t think I would say non-voters support this.
But they sure as fuck are complicit in not stopping an OBVIOUS threat to democracy by failing to do the absolute bare minimum civic duty of voting.
Edit: fixed grammar
And even more didn’t vote in 2024 than 2020- and most of those who didn’t vote this time would have otherwise voted against Trump. 50% of US votes is far far less than 50% of people eligible to vote in the US.
50% of the people that voted in the last election voted for him. Some people didn’t vote, so about 33% of those that could vote voted for him. Since the election, his approval ratings dropped about 15-20%, so about 25% of those able to vote still support him.
Further, it’s 50% of the people in the swing states that really decide things. I’m sure most New Yorkers and Californians that didn’t vote did so because they knew their state would go blue regardless.
Yep. The rule of thumb is that if you were in a swing state, your vote counted for about 5-6 votes because of the way the electoral college works.
There is no equal representation as long as the lower house is capped and the upper house is equal.
I have the same representation as millions of empty acres of land. It’s fucking bullshit. Taxes should work respectively. Your votes are worth more? Cool, foot the bill instead of me funding your backwards empty fucking state.
Democracy ™️
"They didn’t know"TM
No, most of you either directly voted for him or didn’t care if he won.
Source?
Trump won the election with a majority
most of you decided voting was too much of hassle
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Definitely not most.
I’m an American and I’m upvoting this. After 2016, I thought that there were some misguided people who didn’t realize what they were doing, but that the first Trump term would push the pendulum hard the other direction. I felt a little validated when Biden won in 2020, but it wasn’t as one sided as I’d hoped. But Trump winning decisively in 2024 tells me that everyone knew and did it anyway. People are getting what they want: rampant racism, sexism, and global bullying.
So yes, we suck, and no one should trust us as a country, regardless of the fact that there are many of us who knew how catastrophic another Trump term would be.
I don’t think Trump won quite as decisively as it first seemed.
But shit, it’s still like… a third of our country that looked at Trump and went, “yeah sure”.
How the fuck do we fix this? I straight up have no clue. And that means it very likely will devolve into violence. And that is legitimately terrifying.
How the fuck do we fix this?
The primary issue is twofold:
- Heavily biased information and restrictive media diets
- Democrat Inaction
If you try viewing even a tiny amount of right leaning content on a fresh social media account on any platform, you’ll see the type of content that gets perpetuated. People simply become indoctrinated by content recommendations that are practically incapable of showing the other side, not to mention that most mainstream media is entirely corporately captured.
The fact that the Democrats were slow to release official policy for Harris’s campaign, indeterminate on Gaza, and had (or really, still have) a very “this is fine, you’re just overreacting, but sure we’ll fix a few things” attitude towards political messaging, only helped Republicans, because it led a lot of people to just vote for the party that promised the most, and that was the Republicans. All the wars would be over, things would be cheaper, all the “bad” people wouldn’t be here anymore, etc.
To a normal person with very little media literacy, those promises sound downright amazing.
I personally think we fix this by at least starting with messaging, since that’s what actually leads most people to make a decision on who to vote for. There were literally people deciding on election night who they wanted to vote for, so messaging is highly important.
The left needs to speak to the immediately visible, material needs of the working people directly. While it’s important to fight against the right on culture war issues to prevent the ceding of ground on things like civil rights and discrimination, I think a lot of left leaning messaging focuses too heavily on that, and as a result, it can seem to right-inclined people that the left has no economic policy. That needs to change.
See: Bernie Sanders, and how he very consistently addresses specific economic issues people face, and has broader support on the right compared to any democratic congressperson. Hell, even JD Vance said Bernie was one of the people he least disliked on the left, and Bernie’s further left than the Democrats. Populist, economic disparity focused, anti-billionaire, pro-worker sentiment is how you change ordinary people’s minds in the current media economy.
As an individual, the most you’ll likely be able to do in this respect is going to be volunteering for phone banking efforts, donating money to left leaning charities focused on reducing economic inequality, and generally bringing these kinds of talking points up in general political discussion with others.
There’s something else that’s commonly overlooked though, and that’s local policy. Think of a city’s “town hall” type meetings that accept public comment. How many people in that city are actually regularly attending a town hall meeting? Think of how few people it really is during a particularly contentious proposal. Now imagine what it’s like when it comes to something like “housing and urban development: reducing the rate of homelessness - meeting no. 57” Almost nobody. Get yourself and a few friends down to your local relevant policy meetings, make even a little noise, and the amount of change you can make as a result can be drastic compared to the actual % of the city’s population you make up.
Pushing for things like ranked-choice voting in local elections can also be very viable, since it’s proven that tends to push voters further left, on average, and it also adds some extra competition that can spur a party like the Democrats into actual meaningful action.
This was very helpful to read. Thank you.
As an American. Agreed
Let’s remember that there good people there too. Let’s remember that these scumbags, whichever country they run, rely on our sweat, tears and blood to move forward with their decisions. While not all of us are good, obviously, I want to believe that many Americans were tricked by media to think Trump was a valid choice. What we need to understand it’s that this is a us people versus them rulers. If only we would understand this together and stop fighting each other…
rely on our sweat, tears and blood to move forward with their decisions
Agreed, so stop giving it to them. When I see Americans bring the country to a screeching halt through protest, disobedience, and strikes I will believe in the good people there.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
The fact that a nation does fascist shit is never excused by the fact that there might be people who weren’t all bad. Or were even good.
Sincerely, A German.
I mean, that counts for Russia as well, but until recently you couldn’t say anything like this without getting attacked
I’m sure the media played a part.
But fuck. He was so obvious with his racism, with his desire to be a dictator, fuckin everything.
Fuck.
They basically handed one of the strongest countries in the world to a very typical college bully and his lackies.
Almost nobody using Lemmy voted for him.
Try telling the blue MAGA BidenBro conservatives.
Those people sound like Harris voters, but you sure managed to fit in all your buzzwords
Yeah.
Yeah…
its better to move on and forget about them, because they made it very clear over the last 10 years these types of people absolutley do not give a fuck about anyone elses opinion, and would much rather kill anyone who gets in their way.
Did Trump and Vance think this embarrassing display made them look the better of the leaders?
Because it really didn’t.
Yea, looks like they used their leverage over Zelensky to lure him into a trap that turned out to be a verbal-WWE media stunt…
…turns out Zelensky is more articulate and mature than both of them combined…
I suppose it might go down well with some of his base who love the “macho” shit, but the rest of the world are looking on with disgust.
In some ways, this has probably worked out well for Ukraine, as it might focus minds in Europe. Though I do wish Zelenskyy had pointed out the $350bn in aid lie that Trump keeps spouting.
Though I do wish Zelenskyy had pointed out the $350bn in aid lie that Trump keeps spouting.
He would need to have been able to get a word in edgeways to do that. What should happen is that media reporting on it should point out that it’s a lie but most media organizations seem too busy gargling Trump’s balls these days for that.
And he a comedian, working in his second language .
Zelensky knows who he is dealing with: Putin.
They only act this way because of their followers and because they are in the US. They wouldn’t pull this shit in any other country.
I’m afraid MAGA does
It (once again) showed their loyalty to Putin. In their mind, this was a massive success.
Unfortunately to their cult it did. Such a strong and powerful man. They are literally coming down from an orgasmic high from what they witnessed.
Zelensky is the strongest man in the world to be able to hold himself back from attacking these ass holes.
I mean, it would have certainly resulted in him being shot on the spot. The Secret Service would shoot anyone .
I wonder how long until the US is nuked? Or at least actually attacked, militarily.
If you’re imagining some kind of first strike situation I think you’re barking up the ring tree. However, the US is extremely vulnerable economically.
I think he should call Trump’s bluff and send in a few dozen battle hardened Ukrainian troops with a few dozen drones and show Trump’s entire nursing home and support staff how things work nowadays. We need to put together an anonymous block chain fund with the purpose of putting multi million bounties on the treason party, funded anonymously by small donors and build a reliable mechanism for people to anonymously, but truthfully claim the bounties. What our political contributions fail to do, crowd funding can do. All of the technology exists to make this happen, and it’s one of the main appeals of crypto currencies. Large scale anonymous transactions. If I find out there’s a billionaire Trump donating traitor or heritage foundation member near me, and I can get a basic Intel file and there’s a 500K bounty on them, then shit. They better hug their money goodnight one last time. Just send an email from a burner/anon account to a recipient with the time of death rough location and wallet address before any news is released. If all the details add up then release the funds to the wallet.
Make it worth while and let rule#3 take effect:
“Number three, never trust nobody Your moms’ll set that ass up, properly gassed up Hoodied and masked up, shit, for that fast buck She be laying in the bushes to light that ass up”
I actually love this idea of anonymous crowdfunding by the masses. But how could we make this happen? I guess it would have to be initiated from the Ukrainian government.
I mean, the framework is already in place with crypto. The silk road ran for years and facilitated enormous amounts of illegal activity, and in the end who got in trouble? Like one fucking guy.
It’s honestly no different than a bookie. You facilitate the transactions and keep a portion of the cut for each transaction. The key is keeping the payor, payee, and broker anonymous.
And no Ukraine wouldn’t be involved in this, if anything the Swiss might be on board, or Panama
Sorry I misread: not crowdfunding assassinations, but the Ukrainian government and defence forces.
Starmer’s visit was pointless Zelensky’s visit was pointless
stop trying to appeal to the better nature of monsters. The Trump administration is either fatally mentally challenged, or wholly complicit with designs of fascism, warmongering, and genocide. Probably both
Close the book on US/EU relations, NATO is dead. America is controlled by the Russian Mafia now.
Europe, prepare for war. America, prepare for the dominion of Fasicsm, and civil war
Not necessarily monsters (actually yeah they are), but he has a 40 year history of being compromised and owned by Soviet and Russian oligarchs. I’m reading “American Kompromat” now and it couldn’t be clearer. It’s not even hidden or anything. The Russians really just, won the Cold War. They did it, they toppled the US. Good job for them.
The reasons for which the US was able to turn fascist are all homegrown. We don’t need to resort to blaming foreigners for the rise of fascism - which is the only logical conclusion to a country that was founded on genocide and colonialism under the sole guidance of white slavers. This is peak American exceptionalism.
Social safety nets, wages, childcare, healthcare, mental health, working hours, etc… have all been crumbling for some time now. The fact that our adversaries picked up on this and exploited it by no means absolves Americans of their turn towards fascism.
If, at the end of these 4 years when democracy has been truly and completely demolished, the only lesson you’ve learned is “damn russian spies destroyed america!” You haven’t learned your lesson, and you’re honestly spitting in the face of all the victims of US policy both domestic and abroad.
I think it’s fair to say Russia exacerbated our existing issues. That doesn’t absolve us, as you point out, but it’s not unreasonable to say “Russia won”, either.
We had every opportunity to fix our issues. But nope, we just never really dealt with our history of racism and all the other bigotries (and capitalism, let’s be real). When we tried to make things better, the reactionaries pushed back. First with war, and when that was lost, with law, and when that was lost, with rewriting history. That is a strategy that keeps working. Turns out if you don’t care for your citizens, they’ll eat up all that fake history looking for someone to blame. And that makes us weak to fascism.
So yeah, Russia may have sped up the process, but the roots of our downfall were here all along.
The core of the issues were fully American. However, USSR/Russia has worked very long and hard to pour nitroglycerin and gasoline on these issues for their own benefit, such as expanding territory, capturing/killing US and NATO spies, etc. all thanks to their little pet in the white house now. I mean in the 30s the same fascist/capitalist leadership tried another coup it just didn’t work (where George H.W. Bush’s father was involved, of course). In the 80s they hollowed out our support system even more, and it’s only declined from there.
It’s clear you don’t know who I am or what I know, of course, but you’re reading into my comment way too much.
The Russian Mafia won the war,
the nation itself is fucked. regardless of what happens. they’ve been doomed for a while.
If your definition of the Russian Mafia includes, the Kremlin, then yes. Putin and co are absolutely gangster scum that work hand in hand with the actual mafia and international criminal organizations. Sure the actual people of Russia are fucked (just as with any country of a dictator).
the russian federation is just a medieval imperial entity masquerading as a federated state. And its society is just a totem pole of people getting used as assets and cattle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJgr-0t-RPc this more describes the political totem pole within the country,
but demographically, the country is a totem pole too. Moscow and St Petersburg rule the rest of the country like bandit kings.
How is NATO dead, just because the US is no longer reliable the rest of the countries can still respond
NATO was a tool of American influence. Just as the Warsaw pact was a tool of Russian influence.
The trans-atlantic partnership is over. NATO is obsolete, a successor is needed. America has checked out,
Nato is not dead just because the US leaves it. The EU wasn’t dead either after the UK left.
the US and Hungary have no reason to officially leave NATO because they can sabotage it from within and use it to blackmail and steer Europe into the position they want, being puppets of Russia and US.
the last thing America wants is a detatched Europe that isnt allied with them, they see independent Europe as a hostile entity, they are only interested in Europe being vassal states.
France and the UK are more than capable of maintaining an article 5 nuclear umbrella. If that’s all NATO is worth, it’s still enough.
France is one election away from Marine Le Pen kissing the feet of Putin.
I wasn’t convinced at first that NATO is dead on Trump’s first term. But here we are and it is a long time coming.
Some analysts think that the unipolar world is over, and that we’re heading into a multipolar world again but dominated by regional blocs. The EU is definitely there, and sometime later the African Union will become more cohesive and globally influential. But I don’t see Latin America having as strong regional grouping as the EU. In Asia, we can forget it because Asians tend to be insular. There is ASEAN but they do not have the same solidarity as the EU.
You forgot to mention China. Unless the EU gets its shit together and resists the same forces that are destroying the US, China is going to become that unipole.
NATO was that, but it may very well continue on as something else. Without the US mind you, but nothing says the rest of the NATO countries can’t just decide to stay in.
Of course it might also be a good time for them to all make the international equivalent of the No Homer’s Club. Either way.
For one why limit it to the North Atlantic? Japan, South Korea, and Australia should get in on the action too. And France and the UK can help them all get nukes (yes I mean that seriously - US and Russia being the only large nuclear powers is a disaster). Now would be a great time for the stable democracies (not the US) to create a new alliance.
South Korea and particularly Japan doesn’t need help getting nukes. Japan in particular has never been afraid of showing an advanced space program(for icbm technology) and their immense plutonium stockpile. They could assemble ICBMs that could target anywhere in the world in a matter of weeks.
Yeah, but if they can do it that fast on their own, imagine how much faster they can get it done with help.
Besides, if China starts getting a little froggy Japan and South Korea are going to need a lot more than a few armaments to ward them off.
NATO is still usefull as a framework for cooperation with the UK, Turkey, Canada and Norway.
Under Putin’s Sock Puppet, most certainly. However, the US MIC might hold the key to bring the USA back to being the USA.
Before completely cutting off ties from the US showing the public attempts had been made for diplomacy and providing evidence of what a bad actor US has become is important.
Showing is way more impactful and supports moves made afterwards than just making claims and cutting ties.
So not completely pointless, since the public needs to be able to come to the conclusion themselves first before drastic foreign relation changes can be made.
A united EU against today russia? Doubt will last weeks. But we are too afraid.
Trump still thinks he’s the star of some corny TV show. Get fucked asshole.
Yea, that is what trump is: weaponized reality tv for rubes. No competence, just circus and mayhem.
It exploits fatal vulnerabilities in education, democracy and 24h-
journalismnews cycle.
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I also would have slapped those 2. Fuck it.
Imagine being Zelensky and having to fly some some rando country to beg for help from a Nazi asshole to end the invasion from another Nazi asshole. And if you were to die, one of the two assholes would win?
Zelensky, if you need my help personally, just ask. I have a wheelbarrow so we can carry your balls. Trump would love it if his genitalia could weigh down a party balloon.
It was all a trap.
They just invited him over so they can try to bully him and attack his character with bullshit arguments in front of everyone so they can have that “tough guy” image for their moronic supporters. How fucking pathetic.
No one will want to go over to the US to negotiate anything now.
America is squarely in an age of decline now. Our allies will start moving on without us. We’ll start being left out of all sorts of deals/agreements. Our global power will decline. The future is going to another country. Probably China.
All because dumbfuck conservatives care more about owning the libs than voting responsibly.
I may have a bit of a rose-colored view of the US, or at least its potential to have its conscience pricked by the notion that tomorrow can be freer than today, but if we don’t care about that anymore, then whatever it was that made America a more palatable hegemon than the USSR or China is gone. The USA is just another transactional actor, and not even a particularly reliable one. At this point, Trump has literally threatened more individual souls with annexation than China has.
“Decline” is an understatement. Trump is turning the US into a pariah rogue state, and he’s doing it fast.
That doesn’t stop any toddler from saying they are disrespected at home… Are you saying he wants the numerous tariffs negotiations to fail?!?
I tend to agree with you 100%, yet the stock market hasn’t reacted. 🤷♂️
Congrats America, we’re the bad guys now.
A foreign democracy is sending an entire generation of their male populace into the afterlife to prevent Russia from expanding their borders and influence, which is bad for everyone including America, and our dumbfuck “leader” is trying to fleece them for everything he can in exchange for helping them with what amounts to chump change.
Such an embarrassing time to be an American. We’re transitioning into a much more dangerous world.
A foreign democracy is sending an entire generation of their male populace into the afterlife to prevent Russia from expanding their borders and influence
More to the point, to defend themselves. Ukraine isn’t playing some kind of geopolitical game; it’s trying to survive and has a huge moral high ground that your characterization of it disregards.
I’m not disregarding anything. I’m making a point by driving home what it does for Americans, because all Americans care about is themselves. If I frame it from the perspective of Ukraine trying to defend themselves from invasion, Americans could give a fuck less.
If that’s your goal, then you need to understand that Americans give even less of a fuck about the framing you gave it. It’s not the Cold War anymore; Americans have no concept that “Russia… expanding their borders and influence” would affect them in any way. Americans don’t even have a fucking clue where the borders being fought over even are!
At least the “Ukrainian self-defense” angle has a clear villain and a heroic scrappy underdog to root for as entertainment. In terms of getting Americans to care, that really is your best bet.
(Source: am American. And if you think this viewpoint is even more cynical than yours, then congratulations, you’re correct.)
Conservative be like: “NOOOO WE CANT ‘WASTE MONEY’ AND FUND A COUNTRY DEFENDING ITSELF FROM INVASION 😡😡😡”
Also conservatives: “Lets cut social security and give money to israel so they can commit a genocide 😏”
They’re also going to gut IRS. So there will be less revenue.
Oh
You think there is less revenue?
🤣
Tariffs and sales tax doesn’t need IRS
Tariffs need someone to collect them. And sales tax is very much the IRS. It’s not automated just because they itemized your receipt.
Well, they might just bring back the pinkertons for that 👀
Fun fact: Pinkerton is tanned, rested, and ready to go.
do you not know that WE pay the tariff charges? or do you honestly believe that, example, Canada is just like “yeah we dont mind paying the 25% in our exports, we’ll just cover that for you”
sorry but no. they will upcharge the export 25% to counter the tariff, then it gets sold to US for 25% more, then on the store shelf WE pay 25% more so cover the “losses”
if you dont think this is how it works. let me ask you a simple question scenario.
you have a lemonade stand. you sell for 1 dollar on the street. suddenly, someone says. hey i own this street. you have to pay me 25 cents to sell here.
do you continue to sell for 1 dollar and lose 25 cents per sale? or do you charge 1.25 to keep making the same profit?
if your answer was “id move to a different street” well then you cant comprehend a question and you are dodging it.
Exactly. We pay the tariffs. They don’t need IRS when CBP is in charge of that.
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Exactly, you’re proving my point. The rich doesn’t have to pay when they send their goons to extort you out of your life savings. Ask yourself, when has the rich ever paid their fair share?
This shit will only get worse. People are so naive and think the rich ever pays taxes. Gutting the IRS would only help the rich. As for the poor, they are gonna put 200% sales tax (just as their fascist in chief promised) and if you dont pay, they wouldn’t be needing irs, they send private security to your house.
You think fascism is gonna need IRS? fascists don’t obey laws, they do what criminal organizations do when they want to collect their “protection fees”.
You can’t not pay sales tax unless you’re a business. You’re just expected to pass it along to consumers who can take it or leave it.
also crickets when it comes to israel.
Even worse, look at this bullshit: https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-844166
Israel is lobbying the United States to keep Syria weak and decentralized, including by letting Russia keep its military bases there to counter Turkey’s growing influence in the country, four sources familiar with the efforts said.
Good job GOP. We lost the Cold War.
All these years after winning it. That’s some special war-fightin right there!
Few things age like milk as they’re happening!
Ukraine should make a deal with Europe. Europe should send troops to Ukraine.
Yeah… NATO is DEFINITELY not sending troops to Ukraine basically ever at this point. Because they increasingly need to be worried about both russia AND the us attacking them.
Well, that’s the problem with NATO, it was always US interests first and European interests second. Whenever those two diverged, the Europeans just had to sit on their hands (that was the deal, that is why defense spending was not a priority)…but this time it is different: it has proven existential for Europe, regardless of whatever direction the wind may be blowing at that one time in the oval office.
…
Yes. What is different is that now it is going to be every European country in NATO protecting their own interests… from the US and russia.
poland, ukraine, and finland are all DEEPLY familiar with the concept…
Watch the interview. Trump is scared shitless over the potential of WW3 and UK and France have nukes. If NATO (less US) decided to do something in Ukraine, the most Trump would do is impose tariffs, which is something he was going to do anyway.
This interview proved Trump to be a coward.
Been saying it for a couple of weeks. Also best way to hold Putin to account. I think he goes home if UKraine agrees no NATO.
Here’s a link to the entire exchange. It’s fucking surreal and infuriating.
Holy fucking shit Zelenskyy needs the peace prize now for not slapping that geriatric blowhard to the floor. What the actual fuck.
Given how much Trump allegedly wants the peace prize because Obama got one, the Nobel committee have an opportunity to do the funniest shit ever by giving Zelenskyy it over him.
Trump has been craving a Nobel ever since 2016. Sweden can do something extremely funny right now.
Swedes aren’t the one giving out the Peace Price
Huh. I guess it’s high time for the Norwegians to develop a sense of humour then.
To be fair, he would’ve also deserved it for slapping that geriatric blowhard to the floor.
I’m tempted to watch it but I only watched a clip and I can feel my blood boil.
I was torn as well. eventually decided to watch because to turn away feels like a betrayal of fellow human beings. an open and raw display of human depravity. now I need to find a politically useful outlet for this rage.
I’m sure Germany, France, or the UK would love to get the mineral rights that Trump is after.
I really want this to blow up in Trump’s face. Rude strongarm tactics is a real bad look.
I sure as hell hope we don’t make our support contingent on securing mineral rights from Ukraine while they’re over a barrel.
Of course he has. That was the whole point. When he didn’t fall in line with the plan, Trump and Vance threw a tantrum. Zelenaky will not just accept peace at any price, he’s acting in the best interests of his country and I do not blame the man for it.
? I’m from the UK, I’m saying I hope we’re not as overtly sleazy with our support.
And to clarify, the deal wasn’t even a peace deal. It was a “ceasefire now, then when Russia recuperates and starts again, we’ll have 0 contingencies. See, what if a bomb dropped on your head right now? We can’t predict the future!”
