This is a “let them fight” situation
I guess but it sucks for civilians caught in the crossfire. Can’t we just have a Khamenei/Bibi cage fight instead?
And then we just don’t let the winner out of the cage.
I’d be down for that. Let the leaders fight!
kinda like an inverse hunger games?
I’d hope for some good old celebrity death match entertainment.
The problem is, large parts of each country are supporting their government in what they’re doing.
Make it a knife fight.
There are no winners in a knife fight.
IMO a major reason that Israel is levelling Gaza is that it’s a one-sided conflict where Israelis are not getting killed. There are apparently 53 Israeli hostages right now, but more than 20,000 Gazans have been killed. There is some pressure to end the conflict, but not enough. If it were a war where Israelis were being killed too, it would end a lot quicker.
I know the Iran / Israel conflict is a different one, but if enough Israelis stop supporting Netanyahu, both conflicts might end. Israeli civilians dying might be the only thing that will stop Netanyahu.
Iran has the right to defend itself, as they like to say
Another reason to hate Israel. They’re making me agree with Iran.
Ew.
Maybe you should reconsider your prejudice, then. Why are you so spiteful towards the country geopolitically opposed to the genocidal entity and doing something about it? Do you treat western countries (all of them maintaining economic, diplomatic and military ties with Israel) with the same contempt?
According to Veritasium and Game Theory (The prisoners dilemma) a retaliation is what should be done in this case
I personally prefer the more complex setup discussed in https://ncase.me/trust/.
The prisoners dilemma is a single decision game: you can tattle or stay silent, and as you don’t know what the other does, and due to how things are set up you would prefer to tattle, even if both staying silent yields better results for both parties.
Politics like this is more of a repeated game, like the one described in the link. You can trust one another, in spite of this single iteration Pareto optimal setting favoring betrayal, and work together. But also; show that you are not an easy mark that can be exploited.
Agreed. The the enemy of my enemy is my, uh, enemy? They both suck lol
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s other enemy.
Nothing more, nothing less
Realpolitik is German for “short-term thinking that will eventually bite you in the arse”.
Exactly. Stop giving Israel weapons.
Just to add that I have become quite allergic to the “pre-emptive strike”, “weapons of mass destruction “ justification for war. Have we learned nothing?
We did learn that orchestrating these gets you paraded around by the “progressive” party in the US during the last election…
That’d be pretty swell, but then maybe please don’t go defend Israel from the consequences of its actions?
You would have said the same thing about World War 2.
Which side is supposed to be Poland in your shitty analogy?
The one being attacked, obviously.
Israel is executing gay people, and straight people, and fathers, and mothers, and babies, and the elderly, and the sick, and the disabled, people in hospitals, and in refugee camps, and Muslims, and Christians, and Jews, and on, and on.
I don’t think people are cheering them on in general. Just cheering them on against Israel. Which, like…yeah. One of these countries has been committing outright genocide and murdering journalists and aid workers en mass for the last 2 years, and then provoked this latest attack by firing missiles at the other.
I don’t think people are cheering them on in general.
I wish that was true, but I’ve seen plenty of people cheer Iran on in general.
Campism is utter brainrot.
Yeah, I’ve seen a ton of flat-out support for Iran and Hamas on here, and it just hurts my head. Particularly when it comes from members of the LGBTQ communities.
Like… do they not realize what these people would do to them if they had the chance?
Particularly when it comes from members of the LGBTQ communities
So, you, the (likely white and straight) saviour has to tell the gays what to do and who to support?
Israel, by shielding all its genocide in fake rainbow flags and under the guise of “western values”, does SO MUCH damage to LGBT communities all over the middle East. When you’re seeing “the self-proclaimed gay-friendly Jews” steal your land and attempt to murder your entire people, don’t you think there might be reasons why the oppressed end up having negative feelings about gays and Jews? Obviously LGBT-phobia is bad, but it is literally the west who forced this.
In the particular case of Iran, in the mid-20th century, the country democratically elected Mosaddegh, a secular and progressive leader who believed in feminism and who was in a coalition with broad leftists. What did the west do? Economic blockade to Iran because it wanted to nationalise IRANIAN oil fields that belonged primarily to BP, and staged a coup against him.
It’s literally the fault of the west that Iran didn’t develop as a better-functioning progressive, secular democracy.
You say that as if half of the people in their home country don’t want to do the same shit?
Do you not realize what Israel would do to you if you went to Gaza and tried to protect Palestinians?
The brainrot here in these comments is the blatant disregard for genocide of Palestinians by Israel.
80* years
No, 2 years. To go with the “en mass” part in particular.
How long has Iran been killing gays?
Israel has killed more gays in the last year than Iran has in its existence
Really? Source for that, seems very hard to believe
Last year, Lancet estimated the dead in Gaza at about a quarter of a million. A year has passed since then, and the killing has only increased, so it’s plausibly at at least twice that now. Approximately 5 percent of people are gay, and Israel makes no destination in killing them, so that’s about 25,000 murdered gays.
Exact numbers for Iran are hard to find, but its of the order of magnitude of less then 1 a year, plus 20 in the immediate aftermath of the revolution.
So it’s a two digit number vs a five digit one.
That’s quite a leap in logic. Israel hasn’t killed any of these people because they are gay. I do see the point you are trying to make but defending the systematic killing of gay people undertaken by hamas or iran with whataboutism doesn’t help anyone
And Iran has been supplying drones for Russia so they can do the same in Ukraine.
They are both shit countries committing genocide directly or indirectly, they should fight each other to extinction.
Israel has also been supllying drones to Russia. They even demanded Ukraine to surrender to Russia.
This is not to challenge your statement. I find it important to understand that Israel is neither on the side of Ukraine, or on the side of NATO. Israel has no allies, it only has bitches doing its bidding.
Israel is not on the side of NATO
The things I have to read on this website, I swear
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Russia_relations#Drones
In April 2009, Russia purchased its first package of drones from Israel (the Bird Eye-400, eight I-View Mk150 and two Searcher Mk.2 UAVs). The deal was worth $53 million.[231] In a second deal, at the end of 2009, Russia purchased an additional 36 drones from Israel, in a deal worth $100 million.[228]
In October 2010, in a third deal, Russia purchased an additional $400 million of drones from Israel Aerospace Industries. The Israeli drones are to be assembled in Russia.[232] The production of the Russian-Israeli drones began in 2012, and delivery to the Russian military is scheduled for 2014.[228]
In 2015, one of the drones was reportedly shot down by the Ukrainian military near the city of Donetsk, Ukraine.[233]
In September 2015, the Russian Army purchased another $300 million package of drones from Israel, its fourth purchase of Israeli drones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Russia_relations#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
On 24 February 2022, Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid spoke out against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, stating “Russia’s attack against Ukraine is a serious violation of international order,”…
Lapid’s remarks were criticized by Opposition Leader Benjamin Netanyahu, who urged the Israeli government “to speak less about what they don’t need to talk about” on Russia and accused the government of “too many unnecessary expressions and too many false predictions”.
Israel declined to co-sponsor a UN Security Council resolution condemning the Russian invasion, leading to an expression of disappointment by the United States.[118] Israel later voted in favour of a UN General Assembly resolution condemning the invasion.[119] At the request of the United States, Israel also pushed the United Arab Emirates to back the resolution.[120]
An unnamed senior Ukrainian official accused Bennett of having “proposed that we surrender”, claiming that Bennett urged Zelenskyy to “take the offer” of a peace deal from Putin. This report was subsequently denied by both the Israeli Prime Minister’s office and a senior adviser to Zelenskyy.[125]
Following the Bucha massacre, Israeli Finance Minister Avigdor Lieberman condemned “war crimes” but declined to condemn Russia specifically, describing “mutual accusations” where “Russia blames Ukraine and Ukraine blames Russia”, drawing a rebuke from the Ukrainian Ambassador to Israel.[130] However, Foreign Minister Lapid stated that “Russian forces committed war crimes”.[131] Israel subsequently voted for a resolution to suspend Russia from the United Nations Human Rights Council.
in February 2025, Israel joined Russia in voting against a UN General Assembly resolution reaffirming Ukraine’s territorial integrity.[189]
In February 2025, Israel lobbied the United States to allow Russia to maintain military bases in Syria, as a counterweight to Turkish influence there.[190]
In March 2025, Russia invited Israel to attend its 2025 Moscow Victory Day Parade, despite excluding most Western nations.[191]
Again, Israel has no allies as it extends no loyalty to anyone. It only has bitches doing its bidding.
Israel’s only loyalty is to the United States of America, let’s not forget that.
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Did @Saleh@feddit.org’s comment bring that claim into context or is it not a fully proper response to your complaint?
(PS: Jewish people are cool, genocide is bad, not tricking you - srs & honest in spite of my username)
A few isolated events of drone purchases aren’t enough to make such a claim IMO. E.g.:
https://www.investigate-europe.eu/posts/eu-states-exported-weapons-to-russia
This data from all EU-27 official arms exports registers shows that between 2015 and 2020, at least 10 EU member states have exported a total of €346 million worth of arms to Russia.s. France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Finland, Slovakia and Spain – to different extents – have sold “military equipment” to Russia
So apparently Spain, France or Germany, full members of NATO, aren’t Pro-NATO because they did arms deals with Russia at some point in the past 15 years. Not good analysis in my opinion.
Governments != Citizenry.
Both governments should fight each other to extinction, excluding citizens.
Unfortunately, both Israel and Iran have been targeting civilian centers, starting with Israel, which is depressing.
Not cheering on their domestic policy, but ppl are xheering on their choice to defend themselves from attack.
Well said
So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
You see the problem here, right? These aren’t black and white, one side good, one side bad situations.
Iran is a terrible country. My partner and I would both be stoned to death there. But there are also queer people living in Iran, in spite of their intolerant regime, many of whom would likely suffer greatly if Isreal manages to force Iran into a war.
Reality is more complicated than just assigning “good guys” and “bad guys”. That shit is for Star Wars.
In this specific situation, there is no justification for what Isreal has done. Their attacks on Iran have been unprovoked, and in clear violation of international law. These must recent attacks, by Israel’s own admission, include non-military targets which makes them war crimes. Iran on the other hand has responded carefully and proportionally. Does it feel weird to be giving props to such a horrific regime for their behaviour? Absolutely. But it’s impossible not to recognize that in this specific situation they are being the adult in the room.
Isreal is actively trying to provoke a war with Iran precisely because they believe it will turn international opinion in their favour, distract from the holocaust they are enacting in Gaza and shore up domestic support for their government. I’m not a fan of anyone involved in this situation, but I sure as hell am not going to express support for the country trying to start a war to distract from their genocide.
So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
No, as evidenced when I said “Me when people are cheering on Iran, a country that literally executes gay people” instead of “Gay people should be openly supportive of Israel”. As you did not read what I wrote, I did not read your further paragraphs about something I did not say.
If you can’t understand why your post comes across as potentially saying people should support Israel then you probably shouldn’t be speaking out on issues like this.
When you say to someone, “Oh, you support [thing]???” In a negative way, and that thing is something that is diametrically opposed to another thing, it is almost always going to come across as implying support for the diametrically opposed thing. Your reply then comes off as a very bad faith response at best, if not a full stumble into narcissism.
I think this says more about your limited perspective than ops, truthfully.
Exactly how is my perspective limited when I am literally empathizing with the perspective of someone else?
Reality is more complicated than just assigning “good guys” and “bad guys”.
You wrote that, which you ironically follow with your straw man of OP
Lmao are you actually on tranquilizers or something? I literally, objectively, and demonstratively did not write that. You utter fool, you buffoon, you silly silly person, I am not the writer of the comment at the top of this chain. You are actually arguing with the wrong person.
It’s possible to not support both sides of a conflict, and wish that nobody supports or cheers on either side. Peace is when Iran and Isreal don’t fight at all, not when Isreal is retaliated against for something terrible they did.
It sounds like you’re projecting a lot.
They clearly stated twice that they are a gay person that does not support Israel. Learn to read instead of just seeing what you want to see to justify your anger.
That explanation came after the fact. The original comment is a reply to the original post, which does not include any of that context. You need to learn how the progression of time works before you try to talk down to me about reading comprehension, because you can’t even comprehend what order things arrived in.
Pity. Reading the further paragraphs would have made you realize that I wasn’t actually saying the the thing you assumed I was saying. But taking the path of least consideration seems to be your thing, so I can’t say I’m surprised.
Very well said and 100% accurate.
there is absolutely nothing in the post that’s pro-Israel. it’s purely to remind people that two different things can both be bad.
both states, Israel and Iran, love doing crimes against humanity, and neither should be celebrated.
Basically, it’s like watching two of the worst people you know go at it in a fight.
Iran has problems, for sure, however it’s hardly the worst state in the region. In fact, on multiple occasions they’ve been willing to work with the UN and US to try and rejoin the international community.
The issue is both Israel and the US have acted like utter asses towards them.
Obama’s nuclear deal showed just how willing they were to engage in diplomacy. Even after Trump killed the deal, Iran was saying they’d be willing to renter again.
And frankly, the reason for Israel’s attack was almost surely because the Trump admin was again getting close to signing another nuclear deal.
There’s way too much conflating of Islamic nations and their policies. Iran isn’t perfect or great, but it is better than a fair number of the regions governments including many current allies.
Honestly when I read this it’s just like “you think Iran is bad but really the whole area is a cesspool” not that I personally disagree with that take but not sure you meant to throw the entire region under the bus, where it belongs
That would be the US fighting Israel
Yeah like, can they both lose please?
“Can the British Empire and Nazi Germany both lose please”
Where did he say that he supports Israel?
You nailed it
If one tribe is bad, the other one must automatically be the good one.
There can never be such a thing as TWO bad tribes fighting each other.
The dreaded heel vs heel match
With ordinary people who just want to live their lives slaughtered by both.
Wow people really out here having no clue what the zio regime is about…
There is concept on the left called “critical support” it broadly means we agree with that one thing you are doing, but we also do not agree with other things.
In this case we can say: For sure killing LGBTQ+ people is not good, but striking a country that is currently carrying out a genocide is a good thing.
P.S. if you have better source for critical support please send.
There is concept on the left called “critical support” it broadly means we agree with that one thing you are doing, but we also do not agree with other things.
also known as “the art of holding more than one thought/belief at once”
are you citing 1984 to this guy?
You can hold multiple beliefs at once without them contradicting, having more than one belief isn’t automatically doublethink
yeah that’s what i meant, in case i wasn’t clear enough
Yeah, I was answering to the person who answered you, who apparently thinks having more than one belief as a time is doublethinking because double=2
Iran’s not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them.
But there’s certainly a level of “oh, is blowing up an apartment building a bad thing? Then WTF have you doing???”
Iran’s not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them
And why is Israel shooting at Iran? Maybe because Iran is geopolitically opposed to the naziest state in this century, and that’s an awesome thing in and out of itself?
Good point, I still think that no matter (for this case at least) why are they doing it for, they are opposing Israel, and that is a good thing.
who told you that
This is important because unthinking tribalism pushes anyone on the fence away from wanting to hear your position, and we don’t need any more people pushed to the right.
Like when Trump torpedoed the Trans-Pacific Partnership - which would have meant all involved countries would have fallen under (globally draconian) US intellectual propery law and other controversial changes. In short, it was a huge win for corporations an a huge loss for consumer rights. Trump torpedoed it because it wasn’t “putting America first” enough. So, although he stopped it for a stupid reason - it was great that he stopped it anyway.
It was of course renegotiated a few years later as the ‘Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership’, but notably with almost all of the intellectual property crap removed or vastly de-fanged, and various other controversial provisions removed - and that agreement passed. So it was a lasting win.
But if you ever say 'i hate Trump, but not everything Trump has done is bad because… ', you are still likely to get a hundred Lemmy downvotes even if you explain why. Hopefully people can learn that you don’t have to disagree and disavow someone/some entity all of the time just because you disagree with them in general. A win is a win and it’s ok to say ‘hey actually that’s good’, it doesn’t mean you support or like them - it just means you think they made one good decision.
It’s not why do people support Iran? It’s why do people not support Israel?
It’s not about critical support it’s about critical thinking. It’s about the big picture. Not about who to support and who to hate.
It’s about control. It’s always about control. 97% of politics is distraction and war means politicians have failed their number one reason to he in charge. To make the daily lives of people better.
Israel doesn’t need offshore fossil fuel deposits. They just want control of those resources and money.
The most important thing going on right now is the transition to green energy. Not religious people killing each other. People don’t like to hear that. Rather than think about that it makes them happy to insult people about it. Just like it makes people happy to have control.
Me when people are cheering on Israel, a country that literally executes innocent children
haven’t you heard, Gaza isn’t friendly to gays, that’s why it’s ok to bomb all the people of gaza indiscriminately, including the gays.
Our own leadership isn’t friendly to gays.
People are cheering on Iran out of pure spite, not out of genuine support for Iran.
The American people are tired of our government spending out tax dollars to support a genocide and then gaslighting us about it when we call them out. They are also persecuting dissenters on it. This has happened under both Biden and Trump, though Trump has leaned more on the persecution. We are fucking sick of it.
There is satisfaction in seeing someone stand up to genocidal Israel, even if the party doing so is despicable in their own right. I think people would greatly prefer getting behind a western democracy taking a stand, but we’re at a point where people will take what they can get. Especially with it being clear that the aforementioned western democracies aren’t going to do shit against genocidal Israel.
And trans people aren’t treated as equal and they are constantly attacked by their fellow citizens.
Oh wait that’s America.
I don’t know much about Iran, but do they have legalized slavery? Because America does.
I don’t know much about Iran, but do they have legalized slavery?
It’s debatable, and I’m by no means an expert. But forced marriage is still a thing, where you sell your daughter to a man to clear your debts. If you ignore all the sex slaves, there are still about 600k people living in “modern slavery” conditions. The government isn’t doing anything about it either from what I gather.
So no, it’s not legal the way it is in the US through prison systems, but it is very much a huge issue that isn’t being corrected.
But I mean between the US, Israel and Iran… There really are no good guys. Each of these governments does some real horrible shit.
Oh I didn’t know America’s government executes gay and trans people and tortures atheists. Its funny, there’s actually been a few parades on their behalf recently in America, I wonder how that would go down in Iran?
The US kills by the thousands overseas, including LGBT people. There is more LGBT blood on the USs hands than Iran’s, by far.
but do they have legalized slavery?
Ask the women.
It seems to me this is yet another distraction scheme? Make the people supporting gay rights and the people opposing Israel’s cruelty angry at each other?
Don’t be fooled. Israel is throwing bombs at civilians regularly because it doesn’t even think of Palestinians as humans!
If Israel really stands for “Western values”, then i want nothing to do with them. If they throw bombs at innocent people, then they undermine their own credibility and don’t deserve to have a say in the world’s politics.
It’s called critical support. I can support both Iran’s self-defense from genocidal maniacs while simultaneously criticizing them for their human rights abuses. It’s something that people with a functioning brain can do - hold two ideas in their head at once.
Besides, Israel has killed more gay people in the last year just through sheer numbers of the people they’ve exterminated than Iran has ever.
Nah dog. We ain’t cheering. We eating popcorn.
I personally am enjoying the popcorn, but some people are so anti-Israel they ended up pro-Iran
EDIT: the popcorn
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Like people who are so anti-Russia they end up pro-Ukraine
You should put your entire head in an anthill. It will improve conditions inside your skull.
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Weak
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???
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Supporting Iran limits the ability of Israel to commit to their genocide, support Israel only enhances their capability to genocide and supporting neither only benefits Israel which make use of their partnership with the west
Hate Iran all you want, despise them, that’s fine, but we need to pick anything at this point when the alternative is Israel
It might be better for the gays in Israel, but what about the gays in Palestine, or simply the people within Gaza?
You can reform a state to treat gay people like humans, you can’t reform a genocidal state
Eh, one side is committing genocide, has been ethnically cleansing Palestinian, continually attacking neighboring countries, and effectively murdering gay people as well (do you think the 2000 pound bombs make an exception for gay people?) and the other side is a theocracy with all the flaws that come with that. When it comes down to it, Israel is far, far worse than Iran. You can support parties you’re critical of.
I’m somewhere along the lines of “I just hope both teams have fun”, but the opposite of that
Wishing both sides a very happy total collapse of their existing state
The people of Iran do not deserve this. They are under religious authoritarian rule and suffer every day at the hands of these brutes.
Israel on the other hand has many people that support genocide against the Palestinians.
I hope none of the resistance in Israel get hurt or are displaced. I hope no innocent civilians get hurt or are displaced in Iran.
What are you doing having a sensible and empathetic take around here ?
Would you have said the same during World War 2? Or are you a rascist hypocrite?
I’d definitely be in favor of a few WWII-participant states’ total collapse. The expansionist genocidal ethnostate is a clear pick for sure, and the oppressive totalitarian government on its Eastern front wouldn’t be a great loss either
The situation isn’t terribly dissimilar, actually
So you would have supported the total collapse of the US, Britian, and France? Because so far it seems like you’re just a white supremacist and western chauvinist.
