• idegenszavak@sh.itjust.works
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    19 days ago

    Language maps shouldn’t be country maps, as language boundaries rarely overlap country borders. And it’s also wrong, in Hungarian toe is “lábujj” literally means “footfinger”

    • yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      19 days ago

      Sociocultural boundaries are almost entirely grounded in language. Nation states are almost entirely grounded in imagination.

      • Instigate@aussie.zone
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        18 days ago

        Reminds of a great lyric from the song “…Meltdown” by Enter Shikari:

        Countries are just lines drawn in the sand with a stick

    • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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      19 days ago

      By that logic, it should be both green and red, because it looks like “lábujj” is both a word, and like you said it means “footfinger”.

    • Dicska@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      I suspected it was rage bait, starting with the British isles being coloured green, despite the existence of the word ‘toe’ there.

  • nelson@lemmy.world
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    19 days ago

    So the Flemish part of Belgium has “tenen”, which is not toefinger. The french have “orteils”, which is also not fingers of the foot( finger is doigt ).

    So the map is at least wrong for those two countries.

    • Fiery@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      19 days ago

      Real funny they coloured it differently, because Flanders literally shares a language with The Netherlands.

      To be fair half the world seems to forget Belgium is not all french sometimes, or puts french as the default even though Flanders’ population is almost twice as large as Wallonie. Even adding the population of Brussels and Wallonie, Flanders still has the larger population. (Numbers for stats come from statbel)

      • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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        19 days ago

        Either way if you ignore regional languages you’re not doing linguistics. And the author could not even get it right for national languages, if we even accept that arbitrarily picking one makes any sense.

        This map is a masterclass in what not to do and it almost feels like intentional engagement farming.

      • DefederateLemmyMl@feddit.nl
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        18 days ago

        To be fair half the world seems to forget Belgium is not all french sometimes

        It’s annoying as fuck.

        Microsoft/Xbox store used to be almost entirely French when visiting from a Belgian IP, even if you set your profile language to Dutch or English. Not sure how it is nowadays, I don’t come there anymore, but it was like that for at least a decade.

        Amazon Prime and Netflix still have many movies and series in dubbed French only for Belgian customers, and not the original version with Dutch or even just English subtitles.

        Many sites serve you a French language page by default if you visit from a Belgian IP, and then you have to hunt in the header or footer of the page for the language toggle. You usually can’t even read the cookie permission popup in a language you understand.

        • Fiery@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          18 days ago

          For real yeah, like it’s gotta be some default in an internationalisation library. It’s way too common on websites for that not to be the case.

  • msantossilva@sh.itjust.works
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    19 days ago

    Nope. In portuguese we do not call the toes “fingers of the feet”. In fact we do not have a word for fingers. Or toes.

    What we have instead is a word for those little appendages that one can find at the end of one’s arms or legs. We call them “dedos”. Most of the time we do not feel the need to specify if we are talking about fingers or toes. Context is usually enough to distinguish between the two. But when do have to be specific, we call the fingers “dedos of the hands” and the toes “dedos of the feet”.

    Now, that may seem weird to some, but to me what is really surprising is that some languages found it necessary to use two words to describe what is essentially the same fucking shit.

    • Klear@quokk.au
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      19 days ago

      “Digits” would be the English equivalent of “dedos”, and the words are indeed related.

    • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip
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      19 days ago

      to me what is really surprising is that some languages found it necessary to use two words to describe what is essentially the same fucking shit.

      I mean, you can start calling all sorts of body parts the same shit, and some of them even have words already. Like we say arms and legs, but we could also say upper and lower limbs. We’ve got knees and elbows and shoulders, but they’re all just joints.

      Now I’m wondering what languages have the fewest words that could describe the entire body, as in once you break down the word “body” into any number of parts (without using the word “body”, like upper and lower body), how many other words are needed? I think in English you couldn’t get away with anything less than head, neck, torso, and extremities (although one might argue that the latter refers only to hands and feet so you’d have to put limbs back in as well).

      • Sludgeyy@lemmy.world
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        19 days ago

        Torso and appendages

        Head/neck being an appendage is arguable. But basically because there are better words to describe it, not because it isn’t one.

        Axial and appendicular

    • Vreyan31@reddthat.com
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      19 days ago

      As someone who only speaks English, the cognitive map made by that language is kind of disgusted to think of toes and fingers interchangably.

      Fingers are (or should be) clean, and are allowed to touch many things. I am perfectly comfortable touching many things with my fingers that other people’s fingers have touched.

      But toes? Toes are gross. They are not interchangeable with fingers. Unless I’m in the shower cleaning my toes, if my fingers touch my toes I probably need to wash my hands after. And other people’s toes?..

      No - toes and fingers are not the same thing. My toes are great, I’m glad to have them for balance while walking or running. But they are not fingers, or vis versa

    • kadu@scribe.disroot.org
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      18 days ago

      Huh what? Dedos are fingers. And we say “dedos dos pés”.

      You said “nope” then wrote a paragraph of text to confirm what you just tried to deny.

      • msantossilva@sh.itjust.works
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        18 days ago

        But we also say “dedos das mãos”, don’t we? A lot, in fact. You are not seriously trying to convince me that you are portuguese but you do not know this, are you?

        “Dedos” can be used for hands and feet. Fingers are exclusively used to describe the digits of the hands. That’s my point.

        Also, I wrote 3 paragraphs. Learn to count and learn to read.

        • kadu@scribe.disroot.org
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          18 days ago

          But we also say “dedos das mãos”, don’t we? A lot, in fact.

          Absolutely not. If I come running saying “ah meu deus, quebrei o dedo” you’d immediately assume fingers, not toes, if I meant toes I would specify, otherwise fingers are the default. I don’t think I can even recall a scenario of specifying “dedos das mãos” except for some kind of medical talk or children’s play or something like that.

          that you are portuguese

          I’m brazilian.

          “Dedos” can be used for hands and feet.

          Sure, which means just like the map implied we use “fingers of the feet” to say “dedos dos pés” and we don’t have a specific word for it. Thanks for confirming my (and OP’s) point you tried to deny.

          Also, I wrote 3 paragraphs. Learn to count and learn to read.

          You’re very angry for somebody disproving their own argument one comment later.

          • msantossilva@sh.itjust.works
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            18 days ago

            If you are brazillian, then why are you replying to my post about european portuguese? You are just wasting my time with your irrevelant rant.

            This is a silly and pointless discussion. A lot of things that are true for brazilian-portuguese are false for portuguese. And vice-versa. Apparently, dedos means fingers in brazillian. I did not know that. But that does not change the fact that in portuguese dedos means either fingers or toes.

            Merry christmas. Please stop bothering me.

  • tino@lemmy.world
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    19 days ago

    in French, les orteils but also plenty of slang: les nougats, les arpions, les radis, les haricots…

  • rapchee@lemmy.world
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    19 days ago

    hungary is the wrong colour too: “lábujj” lit. “footfinger”. more confusingly, the middle is “lábfej”, which is “foothead”

  • Michal@programming.dev
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    18 days ago

    Why is this a map? Some of these countries have multiple languages, like Switzerland, Belgium, Ireland, Wales, even Spain has Catalonian.

    • Dasus@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      Huh. Us other Finno-Ugrics are on the other side of the divide. Varvas, varpaat. Toe, toes.

    • hansolo@lemmy.today
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      19 days ago

      Ok, so Albanian and Greek are the outliers here. Albanian is its own language group.

      Though, to be fair to Greek, the word is for toe and finger is δάχτυλο. Dachtylo. Which is kind of like “digit.” Even in Koine Greek. Also, arm and hand are the same word, and leg and foot are the same word.

      My Greek isn’t good enough to say for sure, but a pre-Google language manuals call both finger and toe dachtylo. Then specify hand or foot. Or…specify arm or leg? Arm digit? Leg digit?

      Greece should be a grey “N/A”

    • cepelinas@sopuli.xyz
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      19 days ago

      For some reason I always get really annoyed when Lithuanian gets grouped into slavic even when it makes sense.

  • skisnow@lemmy.ca
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    19 days ago

    In certain Austroasiatic languages, your wrists and ankles are your hand-necks and foot-necks.

    • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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      18 days ago

      In hungarian we have a similar thing but for your foot and hand, its leg-head and arm-head respectively.