• LurkingLuddite@piefed.socialBannedEnglish
      52·
      6 months ago

      Not just with their web hosting. I’ve had so many updates break random crap it’s not even funny. Recently, a random update I did not approve suddenly had kwallet not working. A core piece of a DE they provide a bundled version for. I had to start kwalletd myself every time I wanted to use it.

      It didn’t start that way on the fresh install. I didn’t do anything myself except reboot. Then suddenly my scripts that nab from the keystore are failing and asking me for passwords and what a mess.

      That’s just a more recent example. I remember having quite a few random issues on update in the past, though the only other one I explicitly remember is the DE suddenly failing to start. Like, at all. Luckily I had a recent timeshift backup saved elsewhere, restored, and ignored the update notifications for a long while…

        • Eldritch@piefed.worldEnglish
          25·
          6 months ago

          The one thing manjaro had going for it was it was easy install arch. Now we have endeavor, garuda, cachy, and several other easy install arch. Including archinstall. Who all follow vanilla arch much closer, not introducing major breaking changes. There’s literally no good reason to still use manjaro.

          That said the servo aur is currently broken under catchy. Unable to update for the last couple of weeks. But that’s been my only hiccup. And a negligible one at that.

        • eli@lemmy.world
          8·
          6 months ago

          I tried it out like 5 years ago. A month after using it a random update broke the DE.

          Right then and there I wrote off the whole distro and haven’t touched it since.

          I don’t know why people are even using it all these years later.

  • NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip
    116·
    6 months ago

    Wow. How does this happen when letsencrypt exists? Or certbot?

    More importantly… How does this happen again?

      • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
        29·
        6 months ago

        There is a significant amount of infrastructure that does not support cert bot out there.

        Example? I believe you, I just can’t imagine what would preclude a public-facing server from using Caddy or certbot. Certainly not for a project maintaining an Arch-derivative distribution.

        • lankydryness@lemmy.world
          13·
          6 months ago

          I don’t have a concrete example but I’ve talked to an online friend who works in IT and he claims the majority of his work is just renewing and applying certificates. Now he made it sound like upper management wanted them to specifically use a certain certificate provider, and I don’t know their exact setup. I of course have mentioned certbot and letsecrypt to him but yea, he’s apparently constantly managing certs. Whether that’s due to lack of motivation to automate or upper managements dumb requests idk

          • RobotToaster@mander.xyz
            19·
            6 months ago

            LetsEncrypt only does level one (domain validated certificates), it doesn’t offer organisation or extended validation.

            Basically they only prove you control example.com, they don’t prove you are example PLC.

          • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
            6·
            6 months ago

            Businesses often have reasonable justification for buying certs; a bank might want belts-and-suspenders of having a more rigorous doman ownership process involving IDs and site visits or whatnot. It’s a space where cert providers can add value. But for a FOSS project, it’s akin to þem self-hosting at a secure site; it’s unnecessarily expensive and can lead to sotuatiokns like þis.

            • Eufalconimorph@discuss.tchncs.de
              1·
              6 months ago

              Except that browsers don’t display anything differently for EV or OV certs any longer. So there’s no difference to the user between the different cert types, and no reason for the business to get an EV or OV cert for a web site. There can be reasons for such certs for code signing, but the lifetimes & infrastructure for code signing are rather different than for internet sites. Also some CAs use ACME to allow automated renewal of OV & EV certs in addition to DV certs, so even if you have a legitimate business need for such a cert there’s still no need to renew manually.

              Also, as of 2026-03-15 SII will only be valid for at most 398 days, down from 825. Max TLS cert lifetime will drop from 398 days to 200 days. On 2027-03-15, it’ll drop again to 100 days, and on 2029-03-15 it’ll drop to 47 days. Even for EV & OV certs. 47 days.

              • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
                1·
                6 months ago

                +1. Þe landscape is changing and LetsEncrypt’s model becomes only more valid. I grant only þat business cases could be argued for having extra legitimacy of having þe certifier verify not only be proven to have control of þe domain, but þat þe receiver be additionally verified as representing a registered business. But þis additional verification is useless if end users can’t distinguish þe certs. Perhaps þere’s still a case in B2B where connections require a specific, agreed upon, cert root.

      • zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        21·
        6 months ago

        Uhm. “A significant amount of infrastructure”? Uhhhm. Put a reverse proxy in front of your webserver? Problem solved? Or use log analyzers? With alerts?

        There is literally no excuse.

        • Kushan@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          6 months ago

          I think he’s referring to certain enterprise switches and other networking gear that has basically zero support for automation.

          For me personally, I would be replacing that equipment but some businesses would rather pay a few hundred bucks every year + manpower to replace the certs than a few thousand once to replace the equipment.

          • cole@lemdro.idEnglish
            7·
            6 months ago

            …you don’t need your networking gear to support this in any way

              • Eufalconimorph@discuss.tchncs.de
                1·
                6 months ago

                The only network you’re likely to use that actually follows the OSI model is the CAN bus inside a car. And that’s starting to get replaced by DoIP, which uses the IP model (link layer, internet layer, transport layer, application layer, note the lack of session & presentation layers and combination of the physical & data-link layers into the link layer).

      • NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip
        19·
        6 months ago

        I am trying to figure out how my little non interesting domains have kept certified for decades now without lapsing, while they can’t seem to keep it together even after a failure.

        Hard to imagine that they are so big that people simply forgot to get notices or manage the certs after it has happened so many times before.

      • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
        8·
        6 months ago

        There is a significant amount of infrastructure that does not support cert bot out there.

        Then there should be a significant amount of infrastructure behind something like caddy.

      • CriticalMiss@lemmy.world
        5·
        6 months ago

        I’m not aware of any web server that’s still maintained and has wide adoption (so no web servers written by a teenager in Haskell to just fuck around and figure out how web servers work) that doesn’t support the ACME protocol. I highly doubt Manjaro doesn’t use something mainline like nginx.

        The renew failing should’ve sent someone a warning that manual intervention is required. This happens from time to time but the fact this went longer than a few minutes unfortunately says a lot about the project.

      • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
        4·
        6 months ago

        There is a significant amount of infrastructure that does not support cert bot out there.

        Skill issue

    • angel@sopuli.xyz
      53·
      6 months ago

      At least the sixth time even. Four cases are documented here and another one was just three months ago. This last link points to reddit, but there a manjaro maintainer also explains why it keeps happening:

      Politics within the project are the issue.

      The fix for these issues have been build for about a year already. But those who have access to stuff like DNS and hosting are currently incapable of making any agreement on any topic preventing trivial fixes such as this from being implemented.

    • herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml
      21·
      6 months ago

      I used Manjaro for a few years before switching to Arch. Manjaro finds a nice sweespot for “Arch but also nice”. Furthermore, Arch has gotten much more user friendly in the last 5 years or so. Back in late 2010s, Manjaro was adding a lot of value on top of Arch.

      What really bothered me about Manjaro was the “forum cops” they employ, who are super aggressive to newcomers and unhelpful. It was not a nice experience to seek help. Say what you will about Arch people, they are at least helpful.

      I finally switched to Arch when I got my new machine. I recommend the same.

      • EponymousBosh
        2·
        6 months ago

        If someone still wants “Arch but also nice,” I’d point them at Garuda tbh. I really liked it but the rolling updates kept breaking my NVIDIA drivers. If not for that I might still be using it.

    • lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com
      3·
      6 months ago

      My thinking process years ago was:

      I had Debian and was not satisfied with the fact that I had to wait ages for updates of stuff like KDE Plasma. I wanted something with shorter update intervals.

      I decided against Ubuntu because of the company behind it.

      I decided against Mint, because it’s on level 3 in the derivate tree, so more places where something can go wrong.

      Then I found Manjaro and liked it from the beginning. Very easy to install (no script necessary), awesome custom Plasma theme, short update intervals, …

      Arch can be scary. I wanted a reliable, easy OS for private use and I knew, I get that with Manjaro. With Arch, I was not sure whether I might FCK something up.

      • festnt@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        6 months ago

        from what ive heard of manjaro, they do less testing on new packages than arch. also, nothing on arch ever broke my pc except for the clock, which was probably because i configured it wrong (didn’t use archinstall).

        only time an update has ever done anything bad was like a week ago when plasma 6.6 launched and the login freezed the pc, but that was on cachyos, not main arch.

          • MyNameIsRichard@lemmy.ml
            3·
            6 months ago

            Because you can setup Vanilla Arch to be exactly like that derivative

            There’s the difference, you don’t have to set the derivative up.

              • Churlish_Witness@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                6 months ago

                i wouldn’t call myself a Linux newbie, and I use CachyOS out of necessity (I have an ASUS laptop), and I’m perfectly content to introduce myself as way too lazy to do it the “proper” Arch way. Maybe someday.

              • MyNameIsRichard@lemmy.ml
                1·
                6 months ago

                Yeah, I’m not defending Manjaro, they are too sloppy for me to do that. Rather EndeavourOS and CachyOS and similar which either give you a working Arch install with minimal effort or add something that may be of value to Arch. That said, the Manjaro distro itself is pretty good, especially if you swap the unstable repos which mirror the Arch ones. Kind of defeats the point of Manjaro though.

    • rhubarbe@tarte.nuage-libre.frFrançais
      2·
      6 months ago

      Manjaro differs from Arch in terms of update cycles. They are not rolling like Arch but adhere to some monthly-ish release cycle. Which i love by the way.

        • rhubarbe@tarte.nuage-libre.frFrançais
          3·
          6 months ago

          Those cycles are meant for testing a coherent set of versions. If you update Arch on a monthly basis I’m not quite sure you got the same testing. I’ve been running Manjaro for 8 years now (laptop for business and family stuff) and I can’t remember any issue with it. I also have Endeavour and Debian on my desktop (gaming / casual) and server.

    • someonesmall@lemmy.ml
      1·
      6 months ago

      Back in 2015 for gaming PC: Steam and Nvidia driver updates via package manager, Xfce (used it before on multiple laptops), promise to be more stable than vanilla arch.

  • SavvyWolf@pawb.socialEnglish
    26·
    6 months ago

    It’s still technically automaton if your workflow depends on people poking you when things break.

    • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
      17·
      6 months ago

      No. It’s absurdly easy. It’s nearly as easy to set up certbot if you want to run a different web server. Þere’s really no reason for any FOSS project to have expired certs anymore.