But this same person probably has no problem badgering people left of her to choose between centrist Dems and Republicans, who are both too conservative for many.
It’s “vote blue no matter who” and “pick the lesser evil” - but only when it makes others uncomfortable.
We need to start talking about “perceived as normal” privilege. With the stress on ‘perceived’ - because people who are ostensibly still comfortable in this political climate are NOT normal.
What is normal, and responsible, is realizing that what we’ve been doing is broken and we need to try some new things. Like politicians who want to act like public servants.
poor alison, lost her mind
Left wants to make world better and at least liveable for everyone,
right wants things to be better only for themselves and also keep purging people off their group so fewer will get more, rest are just “lesser humans” that dont matter to them.
World where right has won completely will likely end as last human kills the second last.
World where right has won completely will likely end as last human kills the second last.
I mean it’s unfortunate that not everyone can make it, but that’s just how nature works. There’s no place for weakness, and the sacrifice of one life for increasing our control of global GDP by 50% is just worth it. Sorry not sorry.
I know you were shitposting but they said the last human would kill the 2nd to last human just to say they “won”. Except their act of “winning” causes humanity to go extinct.
I was, yes.
Universal healthcare is considered pretty centrist in a lot of Europe…
Well, it used to be at any rate.
The success of the Trump regime has caused all of our right wing to move to the far right and they’ve dragged “centrists” along with them, so now even something like universal healthcare that was formerly very popular with centrists is now suddenly “far left”. The narrative is that we simply can’t afford universal healthcare anymore (because we have to give tax cuts to the rich, for the Economy™)
the radical left depicted here are not who i would define as radical left but just normal. or center.
‘radical left’ is who i would define someone who would dox an innocent person online and get them killed without a second thought because they were too emotionally outraged to read a name or story thoroughly. like what happeneed in the “don’t #$*@ with cats” documentary.
or emotionally manupulate center swinging politics and hiding behind their ranks and reasonings for ‘protection of their rights’ when they did something unethical. like accusing someone of bigotry for calling the cops after scamming them.
we got to stop pretending this isnt happening and call it out as a problem cuz it is that kind of callousness that the maga mind do to deny their own radicals aren’t that unreasonable. the wrong people are referring to their ability to reason as ‘radical’ and it burries the real radicals.
I mean ok but I’d say at least 3/4 of the things on the “radical right” list are also readily found in people describing themselves as centrist or moderate right…
yeah: they define themselves as less radical while being radical. they are doing harmful things. this is common knowledge. this is not what is being debated. we know the harmful thing is what makes them radical.
This is not the same as being centrist and describing yourself as more radical than you are just so you can pretend your politics are somehow immune to being used to harm. this is the exact blind spot the radical right are manipulating any victims of the actual radical left. and sadly they do have some reasons to take issue and so long as centrists want to refuse there is a problem they are taking part in causing unneccesssry struggle for others.
or maybe you are correct and those centrists who celebrate this blind spot are only speaking centrist points but are truly radical left so they can cause more harm.
A centrist should not ever want to be called radical anything nor celebrate radical since radical is associated with causing harm with no remorse. celebrating such blind spots would be that complete lack of remorse you would only see in the radicals.
Well said!
As a leftist how are we going to root out the Zionism in the party?
Depends which party you’re taking about but I can’t think of a contemporary leftist party that would uphold “leftist” values while condoning genocide.
According to another meme I saw recently – wolves.
Isn’t that covered by “End never ending wars”?
What radical left lol? It’s ultra right or so fascist Hitler would blush right for yanks
Weeeeelllllllll. I never realized there was much of a “radical left” until Lemmy. I’m a SOLID progressive. I would consider myself a social Democrat. If you are the same then a Marxist Leninist leftist would consider you an enemy. They don’t think their policies could ever be truly enacted through gradual change and that a violent revolution is essentially required.
I’m not a centrist, but ML leftists scare the shit out of me. Meeting them on Lemmy is when I discovered that I’m not actually a “leftist” and it made me do quite a bit of soul searching on what these political terms actually mean.
I know a handful of communists and Marxist-Leninists irl and yes they would very much like to dismantle liberal governments through whatever means possible, but they’re also very woke on like your typical identity politics, don’t agree with sending in the tanks, believe people should get votes / control government, so I think it varies even there.
ML aren’t even leftists, they’re pro-dictatorship. It’s just right wing bullshit wearing leftist colors.
Eh, there’s Vanguardist Revolutionaries and there’s Pol Pot. I sympathize with the Vanguard because the average person has no idea what the fuck is going on and a nation like the US is simply too large (in many ways) for direct democracy, a small group of people who can devote all their time and energy to the political and logistical needs is probably necessary to transition from this nightmare to FALGSC. Without, like, a global tragedy dissolving all existing hierarchies.
There’s lots of problems with Vanguardism, not least of which is the ease of installing a Stalin or Kim, but I think most AuthComs of that type are sincere idealogues. They’re leftists without faith in humanity.
I sympathize with the Vanguard
My condolences.
the average person has no idea what the fuck is going on and a nation like the US is simply too large (in many ways) for direct democracy
Exhibit A of why the US shouldn’t be a singular nation. If it can’t be run without bullshit, then don’t do that. Just don’t. Time has tested and proven that it was a bad idea.
a small group of people who can devote all their time and energy to the political and logistical needs is probably necessary to transition from this nightmare to FALGSC
Who says we have to convert an existing nation? The US is a failure. Do away with it. Start the FALGSC ball rolling without trying to first occupy the corpse of a failed monster.
here’s lots of problems with Vanguardism, not least of which is the ease of installing a Stalin or Kim, but I think most AuthComs of that type are sincere idealogues. They’re leftists without faith in humanity.
And there I disagree. If you’re okay with dictatorship of any sort for any reason, you’re not actually a leftist, you don’t actually care about the people around you or mankind as a whole. You’re still playing kiddy little political games that have failed us time and time again for as long as recorded history. We need to get over it already!
Maybe the ‘right - left’ metaphor is a bit outdated? Stuck with a 20th century take for our modern problems.
I think you’re correct on that. In my eyes there are people that are out for the good of all mankind, and there are people who are willing to throw some portion of their own kind under the bus to get ahead. The latter are constantly masquerading as the former to gain power and influence, and they’ll wear whatever color they think you’ll vote for to get it.
Most of the tankies aren’t in the US.
Fine. Let’s switch to ranked choice voting so more than two parties are viable.
US seems to have a specifically bad version of FPTP. In the UK we use it and yet still have more than 2 political parties. Though its still not a great system and it largely favours 2 parties, its more possible for a new party to emerge.
The failure of democracy in 'Murica isn’t a bug, it’s a feature
That’s what I’m saying. So far in states that have a super majority like Red states theyve banned RCV and even states that are super majority Blue like WA state the legislature year after year refuses to make it law.
Great example of why those on the left are not perfect, there is a lot of room for improvement to go further left and not be like MAGA or fascist.
Oregon voted it down too because it was too confusing. Sigh…
The Oregon Democratic party was also likely against it because they’re pushing a system that’s much better. They’re all in on STAR.
Which is over at starvoting.org
“I don’t want to live in a world where I am not the one making the world better”
The issue is, Ranked Choice doesn’t actually make that happen.
Ranked Choice is a very old voting system, first written about by The Marquis de Condorcet in 1785.
Condorcet was a mathematician and was sort of interested in electoral politics… Which ended up in him dying in a French prison as a enemy of the Revolution.
Neither here nor there. Anyway Condorcet only had contempt for his version of RCV because not only did it fail to elect the pairwise winner, it could actually be twisted to elect the pairwise loser.
The pairwise winner is someone who can win in a one on one election vs every other candidate. It’s now called the Condorcet winner.
Anyway, RCV was then reinvented in the 1820s as the Single Transferable Vote for use in multiple winner elections, and then a decade or two later the multiple winner part was stripped out to create the version of RCV that Condorcet was not a fan of, nor was the creator of STV.
Then in the 1990s a lobbying group called FairVote started pushing the broken RCV.
And the system has broken in the real world. Burlington Vermont 2009, and the Alaska congressional election of 2022 are both well documented.
The meta-analysis is that RCV tends to break at a rate of about 4% of the time with three candidates, and about 7% with 4.
It gets worse if the candidates are all somewhat viable.
FairVote has to date ignored or actively downplayed these issues.
The good news is that other voting systems exist and actually do break the two party dominance.
Approval is used in STL City elections, and STAR is used by the Democratic party of Oregon.
Score is used in a lot of feedback forms, rate a group of things on a scale, 1-5, 0-100, etc.
Isn’t failing 4% of the time like a thousand million times better than our current failure rate of 100%?
Not really, because when RCV breaks, it breaks hard.
As in the person who would otherwise have won being eliminated in the first round of counting, and then the person who is actually elected being the last choice on a bunch of ballots because the ballots had been gutted down the middle.
Also, that 4% was padded out by a lot of elections where the third party was not viable in the first place. As soon as the third party is viable, then RCV just breaks due to the return of the Spoiler Effect.
It’s explained in too much detail here.
So we would have Mecha Trump if we had RCV?
I agree, ranked choice voting is way overdue
I feel a better choice is just infinite choice voting. Vote for anyone and everyone you want,tally them up and most votes win.
Vote everyone if you dont care, vote your main choice and a safe choice otherwise, or vote for one person if you are super confident or dont like the others
That’s not even radical left. That’s like slightly left of center.
The overton window in the US has shifted pretty far to the right.
the overton window isn’t real. it only ever constrains the left. the right doesn’t acknowledge it, and clearly doesn’t need to
It’s real, but viewed from the wrong perspective. The overton window is the set of ideas that The general public will find acceptable.
The right have been dragging it right in America (along with the rest of the world). They’ve done this by joking about various topics, then backing off. Individually, it doesn’t make much difference. With the media machine the right have, and a few decades, and we ended up here.
The left chooses to be constrained by it, rather than trying to push it back to counter the fascists.
The traditional conservatives (like Mitch McConnell) realized that if they pretended to be Nazis, it’d shift the Overton window right enough that the compromise in the middle would be what they wanted in the first place.
The problem with doing that is that you attract True Believers. And they lost control of the rope they were pulling.
But that’s what they were told radical leftist is! The propaganda has been wildly successful.
Maybe that’s the meme. One side always points out what’s so bad about the other side while whitewashing their own sides issues meanwhile casting anyone who has a different view on any issue as a “Centrist” that needs to be taught a lesson.
While I get what you mean, what is the radical left then? Do they break into large companies and take the food and spread to everyone through the night… I mean I guess they could actually be trying to disrupt capitalism somehow, but how? Killing a person doesn’t end capitalism.
There is almost nothing going on in the world that could classify as real leftwing extremism. Every few decades some cars get light on fire at a political event and that’s about it. In Germany the RAF is still the example for the radical left after like 3 or 4 decades of nothing happening because they don’t have new examples. They shot some politicians in the 70s and 80s. There hasn’t been anything like that since. Everything you hear about the extrem left is basically propaganda by the right and capitalists. If you want to see right wing extremism it is probably sufficient to watch the damn news. The overton window has now made fascism normal. People are just going with it because people always are going with what the “current thing” is.
Bro… Don’t be a meme.
Mass proscriptions, seizing of major companies, either nationalizing or returning them to worker control, etc…
Proscription of what? Also they would have to be in power to seize the companies and nationalize them. It sounds like individuals wouldn’t be much of a threat if it requires having control of the government as step 1.
Radical left is various things depending on the group. Like, there is no common agreement among them. Flavours include Communism/Marxism, Anarchy, unlimited unchecked migration, pacifists, hating police, forcing everyone to altruism.
It’s what republicans call the “radical left,” but honestly it’s just center-left.
Fortunately there aren’t many (if any at all) actual “radical leftists” in US politics currently (though I’d call them “left-wing extremists” to differentiate from the republican hyperbolic scare-tactic).
They exist on the internet, the people I’m referring to are basically the types you find on hexbear, lemmygrad, and .ml
They certainly exist but fortunately most are little more than keyboard warriors. They do give leftist politics as a whole a bad name though, and to an extent enable and justify the caricatures that right-wingers depict the entire left as.
I assume the “centrist” in the OOP is probably deceived into thinking the DSA are all tankies (but as we know, tankies hate the DSA). So she thinks she has to choose between “radical right and radical left”, when really the choices are “radical right or center left”.
The guy responding is making the assumption that what she means by “radical left” is actually “center left,” which is a justifiable assumption seeing as an actual “radical left” option isn’t even on the table…
Don’t need Jesus to help you with morals.
Bro literally just listed the centrist platform and labeled it “radical left” lol
I guess bro is American. Their center is more to the right than in other places
Nope. News and social media thrive on extremes. Most Americans agree on the issues he mentioned.
Lol. Lmao, even. They’ll say those nice words, but they’re really for doing nothing and getting your vote cause they’re not actively evil
That’s not the radical left. That’s a centrist platform, none of those policies are even socialist.
And yeah, I know those are really her options.
What would the right wing version of that reply be? I don’t really have a grasp on their selling points.
“'member when there didn’t used to be so many brown people?” That sort of thing
“The Right is mean, but the Left is annoying in how it wants me to treat trans people like they’re people.”
Is… Is anyone making her choose? How are they doing that?
She wants to live in Neutropolis…
