Possibly the worst defense yet of Garry Tan’s tweeting of death threats towards San Francisco’s elected legislature. In yet more evidence for my “HN is a Nazi bar” thesis, this take is from an otherwise-respected cryptographer and security researcher. Choice quote:
sorry, but 2Pac is now dad music, I don’t make the rules
Best sneer so far is this comment, which links to this Key & Peele sketch about violent rap lyrics in the context of gang violence.
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It’s obvious the hospital security is unfamiliar with even the most famous of 90s anime. I was making an End of Evangelion reference, so it’s not like I was seriously jacking off to the coma patients
I’m a fan of extreme metal, and I know you cannot just hide behind ‘im just singing a song’ since I was in my teens (or earlier). I know people often make bad arguments just because they are reaching for anything to try and defend somebody they like/agree with ideologically but this is super duper weak and embarrassing.
Also, apparently it doesn’t hold up in court. People have gotten in trouble for ‘in minecraft’ statements, and at least in the Netherlands saying ‘it means all cats are beautiful’ still gets you fined for an acab reference to a cop. These are not computer systems where you can go ‘I mean B not A beep boop’ and the problem disappears in a puff of logic.
corbin’s already nailed it. This is just another example of Nazi apologia, in which someone makes death threats that their supporters try to defend in public as just metaphors. I don’t think it’s essential to refute what the OP was saying, but here’s my attempt:
But this is a deeply stupid story with a lede that basically says “I’m unfamiliar with even the most most famous 90s hip-hop”. Tan, like many, many, many Internet commenters before him, was quoting Tupac’s Hit 'Em Up, which, unless you think Tupac was literally calling out hits on Chino XL, was not intended to be a true threat at the time, and certainly couldn’t reasonably be taken as one today.
Yeah, that’s not how any of this works. As stated in the article,
The “die slow, motherfucker” line was a reference to a Tupac Shakur song, and Tan later apologized. That 1996 song, “Hit ‘Em Up,” escalated the simmering East Coast-West Coast rap rivalry into a lethal feud; Shakur was gunned down three months after its release.
So the OP is straight up wrong about being “unfamiliar with […] 90s hip-hop,” the research is right there. Also, I am not well versed in rap and rap culture, but I understand that in the 90s, rap and hip hop were intertwined with gangs and murder- thinking that a death threat in a song was not literal and “not intended to be a true threat at the time” is… naive at best, I imagine.
OP also says the threats “certainly couldn’t reasonably be taken as one today.” I don’t think this is true. Let’s look at the threats themselves:
[…] Fuck Mobb Deep! Fuck Biggie! / Fuck Bad Boy as a staff, record label, and as a motherfuckin’ crew! / And if you wanna be down with Bad Boy, then fuck you too! / Chino XL, fuck you too! / All you motherfuckers, fuck you too! / (Take money, take money) / All of y’all motherfuckers, fuck you, die slow! / Motherfucker, my .44 make sho’ all y’all kids don’t grow! /
I don’t think there’s any other reading than the persona announcing their intent to use a “.44” on all the parties listed, which is a death threat for sure. Additionally, IANAL, but according to Greg Hill and Associates,
Death threats in a rap song can constitute criminal threats or threats against a crime victim (Penal Code § 140(a)) even if the victim never hears the song.
So yeah, I think this could still “reasonably be taken as [a threat] today”.
And this is why whenever I send non-threats to people I oppose politically, I prefer black metal or WP skinhead lyrics.
Silmänkantamattomiin jää silmät sokaisee Viima täynnä vimmaa viiltää läpi käsien Vuoret ympäröivät saalistaan, niin vailla uskoa Mistä voimme täällä elää? Mistä löydämme tien eteenpäin?
Ha! That put you in your place.
I’d feel pretty threatened if someone suddenly began messaging me in Finnish if not for the fact that I am Finnish myself.
Wait that is Finnish? ;)
I just copy pasted a piece of metal text which I knew I couldn’t understand when I heard it. (Did check if first if it doesn’t shout something vile however) Was worried somebody would go ‘that isn’t black metal that is pagan metal!’ and I would lose my metal card.
Being worried that someone calls you out for misidentifying a metal subgenre is a metal fan staple. In any case Moonsorrow is definitely at least BM adjacent and a lot of black metal musicians are pagan for… varyingly good reasons.
Did check if first if it doesn’t shout something vile however
Hmm dunno, “The ice blinds your eyes as far as the eye can see, the wind furiously slashes through hands, the mountains surround their prey…” Sounds pretty violent 😉
Sure, a bit violent, but I worried it might be mega racist, not lyrics about covering people in mountains of snowballs.
Poetic description of normal weather in Finland.
(that same cryptographer person got in fits when people started mentioning scott alexander siskind’s name publicly on twitter, and went on block spree while making noises about doxxing.)
The post was removed and all of the top comments are about how fucked up it was to tweet that. HN is nazi bar confirmed?
It wasn’t removed, just flagged to below the default view threshold. 'tptacek really lost me a lot of respect in that comment
Edit weirdly this is the second time in as many weeks I’ve encountered the term “die slowly, motherfucker”. The first was in the context of a man who obsessively built the perfect stereo and room to listen to it in, enlisting his kids in the labor. His eldest son finally snapped and uttered the words. They remained estranged until the man’s death.
I have not heard the original song.
Aaaand the top comment shares the exact same sentiment I do 🤷
you’ll never guess what happened to the top commenter’s posting privileges when they brought that kneejerk “uhh it’s flagged now what’s the problem” shit here, as if the orange site’s constant attempts to bury fash shit like this by abusing flagging (an anti-spam measure) has any impact on us being able to sneer at it, especially when a supposedly respected account like tptacek goes fucking mask off
Look it is no problem the nazis are in this bar, every time they shout nazi shit we just turn up the music louder. Any posters they put up we put into places with bad lighting and a ‘we disagree with this’ sign. I don’t get why you filthy techtake sneerclubbers who are to blame to for covid [this is not an insult it is a reference!] keep calling us a nazi bar.
