It’s not just music. It’s hard to find guilt free enjoyment in almost anything nowadays. Someone involved in its creation will almost inevitably be a turbo-cunt somehow.
I’ve come to the conclusion that being an ethical consumer is probably impossible. I will however still try. Perfection is the enemy of progress and all that.
“there is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism”
It’s been a known concept in leftist theory for a long while.
While true, many people use that as an excuse to not even try. Even if you can’t stop exploitation as just one individual, this doesn’t mean you get a pass to make things worse.
Have you seen The Good Place by any chance?
Mike Schur wrote a great companion book to the series called How To Be Perfect that details all of the philosophy he got into while writing the show. Very entry-level stuff and quite accessible while still being an interesting meta-analysis of a few branches of philosophy. Definitely worth a read if you enjoyed The Good Place.
Nope, is it any good?
Depends, if you like moral philosophy it’s good, if you don’t, it’s still good.
That’s the right mentality to have there. Do what you can where you can.
I ran into an amazing character creator and animator recently and loved what I saw. I shared it with some friends and they pointed out the person is a complete CHUD. I now blacklist their stuff, as simple viewership of their media gives demand for it.
If you consider it a binary, sure, perfection is impossible. But I would say trying with real effort qualifies as being an ethical consumer.
Guilt-free is impossible if you pay for it. Pirating though, you can draw the line yourself. Like for example Harry Porter the movie is a combination of multiple talented people, i don’t attribute all those to a single cunt, and pirating mean i can avoid paying that cunt while also acknowledging the talent that contributed to this whole series(by watching their other works, but i’m also a massive cunt as i pirate everything and not paying streaming service a single cent)
Don’t really like the series anyway, the setting is pretty nice though. Will still avoid media from people who crossed that line though.
I really think everyone should pirate books and just donate to authors who need it. You bypass all the publishers and any nonsense connected to it, and if the authors suck you can find that out before eonating. Like if you buy Sanderson books you are tithing to his stupid anti-LGBT church.
And if you pirate a new author’s book, you’re fucking them in sales, and donating does not make up for it. New authors don’t need money, they need to sell their book.
Perfection is impossible, you’ll never know someone is like that until they get vocal about it. But for actual Nazis and their sympathizers, I do what I can to not give them attention or money. It’s like ethical consumption under capitalism, it’s impossible to be 100%. Just do better when it’s obvious.
no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism
part of this, not all of it, is if you take the average person and put a microscope on their life, it turns out they are not flawless
I learned about Grimes from her spot in Cyberpunk 2077. Excited at the potential well of new music I looked her up and first result is a divorce with Musk.
Come on, man.
At least it’s a divorce
Well, for there to be a divorce, there needs to be a wedding. 😬
People finding out the person they thought they knew/loved is a cunt after marrying them is very common
As much as I agree, I didn’t need to marry Musk to realize he’s a cunt.
She definitely thought he was a viable human being at some point though.
Do people forget that so did the rest of society at large before he publicly went off the deep end?
I would think that she would have a better understanding of him and his character prior to getting married than the public at large. I’ve never been in a room with him, much less had a conversation or spent time together.
For the last few years, plenty of people are finding out their loved ones and close friends have hidden sides to them they did not see before. Why is it that she couldn’t have been one of those people?
I don’t know why you’re running defense for Grimes, but they started dating the same year he called that British caver that saved the kids in Thailand a pedophile. Not what I would consider mature or marriage potential, and that’s what he said in public.
There is a substantial difference between public image and actual personality. Society at large was unaware of his proclivities because he had an ace PR team stymie his worst impulses. It’s much harder to stay mask off when you’re actually interacting and living with someone, and Musk isn’t very good at subtley.
Plus like the other user said, they started dating the year he did that weird pedo accusation at that Thai rescue squad. That was definitely the beginning of a LOT of people realizing he was off.
some of us were skeeved from the begining
She did siphon away some money from him, which can only be good. Also, she probably hates him more than I do,
For those saying “it’s a divorce,” when accused of being a Nazi, Grimes replied she was “happily proud of white culture.”
They had enough in common to get married.
Yeah, this ain’t whatshername that had his kid and went from chud to “dark woke”. Grimes has just remained the same
All I really know of Grimes is she collaborated with Poppy on her second album, and they apparently immediately had a public feud. Poppy’s accusations are pretty inline with being having 3 kids with Elon Musk.
They divorced, and she’s not a big fan of him now, to be diplomatic about it
But she is still a fan of, in her words, “white culture.” They got along for a reason
I bet she’s a fan of her alimony checks and child support money
That’s the thing. Musk is apparently not really big into paying those
Same thing… Looked up who voiced the lisping rockstar in game because it seemed so peculiar to me. And its just… her. Really soured me on Lizzy.
Black metal bands : nazi
Classic rock artists : pedophiles
Inquisition : both
It’s cool they can span multiple genres like that
Listening to black metal is a minefield.
hates black people
listens to black metal
hypocrites
I listen mostly to heavy metal and I never enjoyed Iced Earth or Pantera. Sixth sense, baby!
same for pornogrind and yes thats a real sungenre that comes from grindcore
You can enjoy art without getting caught up on the artist’s views and actions
The way you phrased it makes me feel like this is one of Hitlers…
You don’t have to solely trust your gut. You can also read the bottom right corner.
Heeey, I didn’t notice that. Thanks!
It is, but it’s a bad example because Hitler’s paintings are shit.
I think it’s a good example because art is subjective and liking this picture doesn’t mean you’re a nazi.
And yes his art is shit. But to each their own.
Tap for spoiler
Which is ironically a Nazi quote.
‘Suum cuique’ predates Nazism by millennia. ‘Arbeit macht frei’ is newer, but is also not theirs.
This is pretty mediocre. Composition is flat, and the technique is not what I’d call masterful.
Yeah but then you also have artists like J K Rowling who have laid out, in no uncertain terms, that significant amounts of their fortunes are going straight to harming marginalized communities.
Rowling, in this example, has started an anti trans charity that does not accept external donations, it is fueled solely by Harry Potter money. The only way I’m going to be able to enjoy anything in this vein is if I know that she’s not seeing a dime out of it.
Okay so pirate it, what’s the biggie
Usually I agree, my one exception is Lost Prophets. Ian Watkins crimes were so awful that now when I’ve tried to listen to their first album (which I loved at release) I just feel sick.
TIL Watkins was killed in prison
From what I’ve read it didn’t begin until, like, after their third album. So that’s how I rationalize it, and I hate saying that. But Fake Sound of Progress and Start Something were utterly formative for me, so I’ve gotta cope.
Noone goes from being a normal, functioning, non-paedophile adult to raping babies in a couple of years. That shit escalates over a long time so I don’t buy that there weren’t signs before then.
The band mates and label etc may have not realised how depraved he would go on to become but there were 100% signs he had an unnatural interest in children.
Yes, but
To a degree. Giving seig heils like the pantera lead singer is not ok with me, just as hemingway shooting endangered species is not ok with me.
That’s not even an original art style. I bet if you ask around 1/1000 grandma’s can paint you that.
Alternatively it’s just made with AI.
Or if it’s made with Grok then it’s a Nazi pedo AI.
Come back to me once you spent a large amount of your time learning guitar thanks to a band, then the band members first want to give a chance to Trump, then begin using AI (all after they wrote an awful triple concept album on “machine music” building out literally 1984).
mehh, I’m not that interested in moral filtering with that much granularity tbh.
YoU NeEd tO LeArN To sEpArAtE ThE ArT FrOm tHe aRtIsT
I’m not paying money to nazis when non nazis are available
That those people then funnel money into organizations that are anti-LGBTIA+ as well should be a very good reason to not buy their crap. Initially with Rowling we didn’t know she was such a POS, but now that we do, I no longer consume her media willingly. I wouldn’t even say pirate it, as it still creates an obvious demand for it.
AdBlock: active Sponsorblock: engaged Music video: downloaded
…meh.
Money going to people like that is then funneled into culture war bullshit. Rowling as an example is personally help fund many anti-trans pieces of legislation. There is not ethical consumption with Nazis/Reactionaries involved. If you can’t be assed to not pay for media that funds such actions then I personally so little difference between you and the creator.
I’d like to not have Nazi shit in my music at the very least.
Crazy idea, I know, but you can just enjoy shit regardless. what about all the other people involved?
For all I know the engineer who designed my car’s breaks was a pedo, but that doesn’t mean I am going to stop driving my car.
I don’t understand this weirdo notion of ‘purity’ implicit in these types of beliefs. But guilt by association is not a thing I believe in. The hunt for ‘purity’ is utterly medieval and backwards to me. So many weirdos on fedi who are totally utterly obsessed with the ‘taint of nazism’ and use it to appoint themselves as Inquisitors and Arbiters of all that is good and holy.
Art is different than functional machines.
no, it’s not.
people can worship anything. they can also worship other people. or nothing at all.
go talk to a bunch of car guys and ask them how they feel about cars being works of art.
and besides, this discussion is here is about pop music. I’d never consider pop music art. it’s a product produced for mass consumption, and further, technically it’s produced by an entire team of people, even if we ignorantly attribute it to a single ‘artist’. so if Dan on the Marketing team is a devout Muslim who doesn’t believe in interracial/religious marriage, was the guy who came up with a great successful marketing campaign for a musical artist, is that all that music also ‘supporting nazism’?
the point is all this ‘i must only support people believe what i believe’ stuff is stupid is because you don’t even know what most people believe, nor should you in a civil and decent society. their beliefs should be irrelevant to the products they produce, and most likely, they are entirely irrelevant to them.
But you weirdos seem to to think that my Baptism means the spreadsheets I produce for my work reports are ‘tainted by the ghost of Christianity’ or something. Because you’re so weirdly medieval in the way you think and you seem to think everything is permeable and gets ‘infected’ and you too will be ‘infected’ by listening to music produced by someone who doesn’t align with your own personal beliefs.
Cars are works of art. The person who invented the car assembly line (Ford) was a huge POS though.
Some people are just too focused on others with no sense of observation on themselves.
In terms of the ‘weirdos’ who do this, they seem to be majorly concentrated within Lemmy.global. So it isnt the “whole” of Lemmy but more like a louder portion of it.
Also, these kinds of “controversial” stuff just brings the wrong kind of people - those which twist narratives, and spread hypocrisy. But as I said, I only encountered this in global.
i don’t know what that instance is. i mostly block .ml and a few other instances because that’s where the majority of weirdos come from, and they view everything from a extremist lens and would call you a Nazi for having the wrong type of bowel movement. But definately there are people who use certain instances because they are 100% ID politics believers and think nobody can exist without every thing they do being inherently part of their political identity. The concept of politics being a single aspect of life among many doesn’t exist for these folks and they refuse to accept any notion of plurality of belief and life.
that said i find this community and a few others, to be less full of insane weirdos than most. people here seem to take shit less seriously and be more thoughtful, weirdly enough.
Something something separate art from the artist something something
Impossible to do in its entirety, the self is always wrapped up in the art it produces to some degree.
The meaning of art is up to the audience, not the creator.
Reading Mein Kampf now, but I’ve decided it’s a romance novel.
(/s, obviously)
One of the most wonderful things about artwork is that it provides anyone experiencing it a direct connection to the artist. Sure artists can filter but they still put some of their real selves into the artwork no matter how hard they try not to.
The other side of that coin is great artwork affects the one experiencing it. Think about how much your own life you experience and filter through the lenses of the books, movies, music and artwork that you’ve experienced up to that point. If you ever draw connections between real life and artwork, that’s one of the ways that art changes you, and that’s part of why avoiding artwork written by hateful people is worth the effort.
Of course there’s also interest in experiencing artwork that you know was made by a hateful individual. Take Falling in Reverse for example. Ronnie Radcliffe, their lead is generally a pretty shitty human, and knowing that you can notice how the music he writes and performs tends to mostly be very surface level “I’m a broken person” and “everyone hates me” with a bit of “everyone who hates me is a loser!” thrown in for good measure. This is his true self showing through the work. Or if we look at H.P. Lovecraft’s Call of Cthulhu, you’ll notice Lovecraft seems to be far more terrified by the non-white Cthulhu worshippers in his works than by Cthulhu himself, with far more visceral and descriptive writing relating to the horrors given to the worshippers. Again this is the true self showing through as Lovecraft was incredibly racist even for the time
Shortly before kanye’s nazi controversy, Spotify was pushing him hard, lol
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this is part of what I love about the punk scene, it’s all about empowering the downtrodden and telling oppressors to fuck off, and at the same time having some fun while you do so!
Anti-flag and the casualties come to mind off recent examples of the opposite of this.
Really sad to find that out about Anti-Flag. They had such an asexual energy about them that I could relate to. Also they stopped me from becoming a fascist at one of my darkest moments.
Well I’m glad to hear they helped you. I’ve seen them so many times. Was very sad to hear about it. I still have a patch on my vest, but covered up the “flag” portion of the name with gorilla tape hah.
Oh snap i’d missed the sexual assault allegations around anti-flag’s frontman. That’s really disgusting
Agreed. I’m still keeping my vinyls of them though.
Dance Gavin Dance and Crystal Castles are two that I’ve been bummed to find out about relatively recently. :\
Dang whats up with Crystal Castles?
anon is literally on 4chan
pepe the frog
complains about someone being nazilmao
pepe the frog
true…
Maybe they are just sexist instead? /j
Sorta related, but I was trying to remember a song the other day where a guy is proposing to a woman. I eventually realized it was “On My Way” (2012) by Passion Pit. So I decided to go to wikipedia to see if it was based on real events, and it was. But then the story goes wonky.
Michael Angelakos wrote the song to propose to his then girlfriend Kristy Mucci. But while engaged to Mucci, he started also dating Madeleine Dubus. He became a drunk and drug addict and was abusive towards Mucci and Dubus. He still married Mucci in 2013, but they announced they were divorcing in 2015. Later that year, Angelakos announced he was gay. In 2018, he came out as bisexual.
In 2025, he said he took too many shrooms and wrote a long email to Dubus that prompted a wellness check on him. Months later, he married Dubus and she became his manager. That same year, he wrote a series of essays, much of which were about his inability to clean up after himself at home and the problems that causes. He also described “snorting a billion grams of ketamine.”
Anyway, it kinda takes the song down a notch for me.
Meh, in that case I am not too put off. Sure, the guy might have been a dick who couldn’t handle fame, but the song was written with presumably good intentions. Drugs and alcohol ruined countless artists.
