There are downsides with downloading their app just to input bad data, but it’s a fun thought.


edit: While we’re at it we might as well offer an alternative app to people.

I posted in !opensource@programming.dev to collect recommendations for better apps

The post: https://lemmy.ca/post/32877620

Leading Recommendation from the comments

The leading recommendation seems to be Drip (bloodyhealth.gitlab.io)

Summarizing what people shared:

  • accessible: it is on F-droid, Google Play, & iOS App Store
  • does not allow any third-party tracking
  • the project got support from “PrototypeFund & Germany’s Federal Ministry of Education and Research, the Superrr Lab and Mozilla”
  • Listed features:
    • “Your data, your choice: Everything you enter stays on your device”
    • “Not another cute, pink app: drip is designed with gender inclusivity in mind.”
    • “Your body is not a black box: drip is transparent in its calculations and encourages you to think for yourself.”
    • “Track what you like: Just your period, or detect your fertility using the symptothermal method.”

Their Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@dripapp

  • @aeronmelon@lemmy.worldM
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    17 days ago

    Take all that neatly organized data and turn it into Christmas tree lights that have been sitting in a box all summer.

  • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod
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    1116 days ago

    I signed up for the app and there are so many dark patterns used in the signup process it’s insulting.

  • @garbagebagel@lemmy.world
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    315 days ago

    Will it work if I do this from Canada? I haven’t had a period in over 4 years (help, I’ve been pregnant for 4 years!) But I want to help y’all too!

  • @AusatKeyboardPremi@lemmy.world
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    1116 days ago

    Why are such apps popular? Do these offer something more than what a combination of reminders and notes (digital or analog) providr?

    Perhaps, these apps offer some insights based on the data. But would one take the risk of listening to an app for medical advice?

    • Cethin
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      416 days ago

      Yeah, the only way anyone should have ever trusted these is if the data was stored locally only. There’s no reason for it to be uploaded.

    • @MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
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      1715 days ago

      Hi! Lots of people in this comment section who clearly don’t have periods, but yea they do offer something more. That’s why they’re used. It really feels like a bunch of presumably men are here in the comments to remind women that paper exists? Yea, we know. Other than these all being easily searchable questions, allow me to say we use them for many reasons including: Convenience - you almost always have your phone on hand. Do you really want to keep a dedicated period journal on your person at all times? Predictions - despite what you may believe, periods are not all regular. Some can skip months at a time. Most apps have a bunch of data sets they use to predict things even if your data isn’t complete Integrations - does my journal automatically cross reference my symptoms and alert me that it noticed that eating apples makes my headaches worse? No, and the level of analysis being done would need both an inhuman amount of time and resources to do by hand

      Women are not “listening to an app for medical advice” so much as using apps predictive algorithm. The app has access to much more data than we do individually and it can be extremely helpful for women with irregular or extreme periods.

      Is it great opsec? No. Sometimes things trump (lol) opsec. I still will advise against anyone (man or woman) downloading and using these apps if they have alternatives. The apple health app seems like a privacy focused one, but I can’t stress enough how none of that matters anyway. The courts and public opinion will be stacked against women in these positions, so any app data that can be used will be, and any lack of app data will just be used to make the case anyway. Keep as much data as you can as private as you can, regardless. People adding false data to the does nothing.

      • @AusatKeyboardPremi@lemmy.world
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        215 days ago

        Thank you for providing detailed answers to my questions; which is what they are, just questions. I want to clarify, as much as your response suggests, I had not accused anyone or the apps of anything, nor was I belittling anyone for not knowing “paper exists”. But I do get your frustrations which such comments, mine included.

        I just want to better understand the appeal of these apps – all health tracking apps for that matter, and not just period trackers.

        I still feel using such apps was a bad idea even before the onset of the current cultural and political climate, despite the convenience offered.

        We have been consulting actual doctors long before these apps appeared on the scene, who provide personalised advice without the risks of large-scale data tracking, whether it is for something as simple as a prolonged cold or as complicated as delayed periods.

        P.S. Yes, these are easily searchable questions, but then there is never a need to have any discussion on a forum as everything is a search away. I figured a more direct conversation would give me a clearer sense of the actual user experience, especially given how nuanced such issues can be.

        • @MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
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          215 days ago

          Thank you for not taking any offense to my frustrated tone, as it was indeed just that, frustration. Having questions and posting them here is completely understandable, and for what it’s worth, I’d rather people ask than just never get an answer.

          Though you are allowed to have your own opinion and come to your own conclusions, I think the fact you stated that you think using the apps was a bad idea even before now, and that doctors have been helping people long before apps, demonstrates that either I was not clear enough, or you were unable to appreciate the lived experience of people affected by their periods.

          Doctors regularly misunderstand, misdiagnose, and outright ignore period related medical issues. I’m not sure where you live, but even in a country with the best healthcare in the world, it’s literally impossible for doctors to provide the personalized information that apps can. I’m not saying that apps therefore must be used and are better than doctors, but I, a woman with periods, am telling you that my app has been more helpful than my doctor as far as managing my cycle goes. You don’t have to believe me, or you can say that you don’t think anything is worth the trade off in data for you as an individual, but people using these apps would obviously disagree. And not just because they don’t know they’re being tracked. We’re all being tracked to a certain extent and we decide what we’re willing to put up with in exchange. If you don’t think you’d share your data for that convenience, fine, but people share data for other conveniences all the time. It’s just extremely unfortunate that this data has now become so contentious.

          • @AusatKeyboardPremi@lemmy.world
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            114 days ago

            Thank you again for your nuanced response. I get that tracking health data can be useful, but I think the real value comes from sharing that data with a doctor who can make sense of it – not from relying on an app, at least not yet.

            I am aware of how stressful and confusing things can get when managing something like periods. Multiple members of my family have faced these struggles, and while the healthcare system in our country is disorganised and far from perfect, we have always found that a good doctor’s expertise – though hard to come by – is irreplaceable.

            As I mentioned earlier, I do see the value in tracking symptoms and vitals, but that value is unlocked when that data is used to inform a professional’s advice – not handed over to companies that profit from it, or worse, enable a greater malice.

            In the end, it seems we are at an impasse between our opinions, but I believe the stakes are too high to rely on apps when lower-risk options – like consulting with doctors – have helped people navigate these struggles for generations. Again, I understand why apps can be appealing, but I think it’s important to consider what might be lost in the long term, especially when it comes to something as personal and vital as our health.

            Perhaps, the energy should be put toward making good healthcare more accessible – which, I believe, is what these apps promised.

            • @MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
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              214 days ago

              Not much to add here, as seemingly we agree on almost all real issues. Just wanted to acknowledge your response and wish you and yours well in all things.

      • Captain Aggravated
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        115 days ago

        Here’s how I think about it:

        I deleted Samsung Health from my phone not long after getting it. I started realizing that it’s a VERY network intensive app, it wanted a lot of questionable permissions, etc. I fully see the purpose of a Health & Fitness app in the lives of everyday people, I think it can be of legitimate help for encouraging people to exercise and whatever, the health features of that app were definitely developed with the same attitude a hunter baits a trap. It was what they begrudgingly did to get me to step in it.

        I ditched Samsung Health because I had visions of them selling that data to my health insurance provider who would then use it as an excuse to make my coverage worse and therefore more profitable. So I’m pretty sure if I was a jew in 1930’s Germany I’d delete Synogogr from my phone.

        Elsewhere, I’ve seen women tweet or Tumbl or whatever about refusing to discuss their periods with their doctors. “When was yoru last period?” “It’s regular, that’s all you need to know.” Where’s that energy when it’s a cell phone app?

        • @MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
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          115 days ago

          I think it was probably a good move to stop using Samsung health. Hopefully you’re getting the features you need elsewhere or are staying healthy without it.

          I think you are seeing some of that energy as it relates to these apps, hence the OOP, but for practicality sake, and maybe out of naivety, most women are not/don’t need to be as concerned as Jews in 1930s Germany. Most of the harm that will be done will be in removing access to future care and likely mainly to start in red states. If apps become a huge source of the issue, I think you’ll see a larger shift, but I imagine most of those cases would not need app data as a main source of evidence. You’ll see women dying of miscarriages more and more. And abortion will be more difficult to access, but I think there would have to be more cases where period app data was specifically used to convict before much changes. I think it’s difficult to accurately convey how important accurate tracking/predictions can be for some people, and how unwilling they would be to give that up. Especially if they are not in a situation where they are likely to get pregnant. The difference between telling your doctor your period is regular vs using an app is that your doctor is just not capable of giving up to the minute personalized information the way an app can. If people’s doctors were personally knocking on their door reminding them to take their medication twice a day and then giving them reminders that Wednesdays their symptoms are worse so maybe don’t plan a full body gym workout, they’d probably be less likely to withhold the information from their doctor, so I don’t really see the two as being directly comparable. Though, I generally agree with the sentiment that it’s bad idea to trust anyone with your data, especially health data or data that can be used to support a criminal case against you.

  • @Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world
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    10017 days ago

    So I fucking hate that this is where my brain went, but my kneejerk reaction to this was: “If I do this, could it be used as evidence to charge my wife with the death of a nonexistent fetus?”

    I live in the cousin-fuckingly-deep south where women are incubators and a long list of stereotypes. I could definitely see it argued in court - successfully - that an app like that was only used on my phone to try to conceal my wife’s data, and the data points to one of the ways we’ve criminalized pregnancy.

    …and that’s thinking about what could happen here and now. Once Trump has had his way with our country, we’d probably just get deported to one of daddy Putin’s gulags or some shit.

    I really fucking hate it here.

    • @grue@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      Yeah, I would only do this if I lived alone or only with other males and had no SO/post-puberty daughters/close female friends.

    • @Glitterbomb@lemmy.world
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      1217 days ago

      Track your nightly flatulence on a piece of paper too, and keep the same data on it that you put in the app. If it makes it to court claim the app was just a convient way to track other things, and let the courts discuss your farts.

    • @funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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      1617 days ago

      not to mention the reason why you’re only supposed to say the word “lawyer” to cops is they literally tell you: “ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST YOU in a court of law.” That doesn’t mean “might or maybe” or “to help you.”

  • ditty
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    16717 days ago

    So I just installed this right now after seeing this, and man this app has a lengthy initial startup process with dark patterns and everything. Now apparently I’m ovulating in two days. 🤭

  • Flying Squid
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    2517 days ago

    I have a reminder app that randomizes reminders for a medical issue I’m dealing with.

    Sounds like I’ll be dealing with two medical issues that app will require now.

          • Flying Squid
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            1316 days ago

            I am dealing with a mystery illness which has made it so that I cannot eat solid food. I’ve had it for well over a year now. The current theory is that it is ARFID, an eating disorder that has nothing to do with body image like most eating disorders.

            Because I never feel hunger or thirst, I have had reminders on my phone to have nutrition (Ensure and soup mostly) and drink water.

            The doctor that I am working with thinks that randomizing my feeding routines rather than having them at the same time every day, which I was doing, will be therapeutic. I’m also supposed to do a sort of wellness check and log when I feel hungry three times a day. The answer is always either ‘not hungry at all’ or, if I’m really stressed, ‘the concept of hunger is repulsive to me.’ I don’t want to say this isn’t working yet though. It’s only been a few weeks.

  • @vincenttwice@lemmy.world
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    1216 days ago

    I’m so sorry ladies, but you had me until the Ts & Cs. This app is a privacy nightmare. I would put all of this energy into finding or crowd funding a better alternative.

    • @frog_brawler@lemmy.world
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      316 days ago

      I’ll second this. I was going to participate in the fake data, but then I read what this app does; no one should install this at all.

      • hazel
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        16 days ago

        I accepted the terms, signed away all of my privacy, and completed a whole questionnaire regarding my goals for using the app, my level of knowledge about my menstrual cycle, regularity of my periods, symptoms I experience before and during my periods, and other conditions I have which impact my sexual health.

        Only after the app had harvested all of that from me did it reveal that a subscription is required, and the only way to trial it is to commit to payment when the 14–day trial period ends. Like all “free” trials, I can “cancel any time”, and like all “free” trials, it’s my job to remember to cancel it before it automatically charges my card, so fuck you very much and uninstall.

        Having already agreed to my sexual health data being sent to “people you can trust because we just want the best outcome for you we promise”, I would have actually been fine going the whole way and trialling it if there were no strings attached, because it did seem to be a lot more about sexual health generally than just tracking periods.

        When it asked for my goals, I included “better orgasms” and “sexual intimacy”. It asked for my current level of sexual activity and something about my masturbation habits.

        When it asked about my other conditions, it provided options for PCOS and Endometriosis. I was genuinely curious at this point. I was basically entering the responses my wife would give, and right now we’re strategizing ways to alleviate PCOS–related pain. Data driven insights may have been genuinely useful. Could have persuaded us to subscribe, at least for a couple of months, had the trial showed promise. Guess we’ll never know.

  • @AeonFelis@lemmy.world
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    716 days ago

    Okay, but since real menstrual cycles are typically highly regular - wouldn’t it be fairly easy to filter out the fake ones?

    • @JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
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      216 days ago

      Perimenopause can happen in women a lot younger than most people think. I’m in my 30s and dealing with perimenopause symptoms such as hot flashes and irregular periods.

      I’m supposed to be tracking my periods to help my Dr decide if that’s what’s going on, but because if this anti abortion garbage I have to do it manually on paper which I’m terrible about remembering to do(brain fog is another symptom)

      So yeah, irregular periods are common for many reasons(endometriosis for example), but the most common one every ovulating woman eventually faces is perimenopause and menopause.

    • @medgremlin@midwest.social
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      1516 days ago

      Irregular menstrual cycles are very common and happen for a lot of different reasons. Also, there are different kinds of “regular” periods. Someone could be said to have regular periods even if they happen on shorter or longer cycles than the typical 28-30 days provided that it’s a consistent pattern without significant deviation for that person.

        • @medgremlin@midwest.social
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          716 days ago

          You do not have a good understanding of menstruation and gynecology if you think that’s always the case. There are so many variations of irregular menstruation that trying to exclude data based on irregularities would be very difficult or get rid of a lot of legitimate irregular data.

    • @AVincentInSpace@pawb.social
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      4617 days ago

      …how do you mean?

      Obviously we’re not going to get everyone to download a FOSS period tracker, as nice as that would be – they’re already invested in the ones they’re using, and no doubt it will have features and usability improvements the FOSS one doesn’t, usually thanks to some network service that is fundamentally incompatible with the FOSS philosophy. That’s almost always how these things go.

      We should definitely be telling more people about F-Droid, but let’s not get our hopes up. Socialism is about protecting everyone, even people who don’t share your views, even if those views are objectively correct.

      • @urheber@discuss.tchncs.de
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        116 days ago

        I mean, they dont like the APP because it collects data, but refuse to do one web search for an app that doesn’t, then complain on fucking twitter about privacy concerns??? seriously??

        • @AVincentInSpace@pawb.social
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          116 days ago

          I mean… yes. More horses will drink if they know there is water, and even if they don’t, they’re still safer than they otherwise would have been.

      • OtterOP
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        17 days ago

        We should definitely be telling more people about F-Droid, but let’s not get our hopes up

        Accessibility (not being on FDroid only) was one of the things I was looking for when looking for recommendations. Thankfully the leading recommendation is on Google Play & iOS App Store :) I have edited the post above with more details

        Drip (bloodyhealth.gitlab.io)

  • @zephorah@lemm.ee
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    4017 days ago

    You would think it wouldn’t be this easy, but given the incredible disconnect from reality on reporting late term abortion statistics, this could scramble data.

    For those who don’t know, the raw statistic of late term abortions comes down to late term terminations via a procedure used in pre 20week months to end a pregnancy. There’s little difference in logging the data. Babies can die inside, even as you’re trying to attend your own baby shower, like with that young girl who recently tried to get help from 3 Texas emergency rooms, but instead died due to the late term corpse rotting in her uterus.

    The procedure used to expel a stillbirth in the late term is an abortion. That is what pregnancy termination by procedure is: abortion. But the context of corpse removal is lost on political alarmists who don’t bother to do their own research on how/when the procedure is used in late term pregnancy, in favor of uneducated hysteria and the demonizing of women.

    My point is, given how resolutely people have not delved into the context of this data regarding stillbirths, messing with menstrual trackers can and probably will work, provided you don’t limit yourself to Flo.

    • @leftytighty@slrpnk.net
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      216 days ago

      I don’t think this is likely to work tbh. I’m sure the app has enough device data to link the user with a broader data profile that would easily eliminate data from people that don’t actually have periods.

      The data profiles people build on citizens aren’t limited to one data source, and emails/phone numbers/browser fingerprints/device details are all things that can be keyed between data sets to relate identities.

      Fascist law enforcement can and would do this kind of thing to chase individuals. This kind of noise seems easy to filter out.

      • @zephorah@lemm.ee
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        216 days ago

        Talk to your state reps and governor, ask them to codify HIPAA at the state level. This is the federal law that guards medical privacy. It is on the chopping block in Project 2025.

        It doesn’t guard data buying and selling though. There’s an add on over in WA that does that, to expand on hipaa, but I don’t think many others have done so.