They are still in Russia. They moved on to fucking with the German election now I believe.
Yeah, I wish they’d promote the Green party here.
But with our voting system they have to promote the nazis directly.
Which they are unfortunately doing very successfully, along with fucking Elon Musk.America, could you please keep your billionaires to yourself? They’re annoying as hell.
Can’t we just return him to South Africa? We don’t really want him either
He has US citizenship, so now you’re responsible.
Yeah but he lied on his form. So. It’s just a matter of bringing this to the attention of the authori . . .
Okay look, there’s a plan B that’s had one big success already.
Okay look, there’s a plan B that’s had one big success already.
And two big failures.
That’s loser talk. C’mon Go Team.
Elon is from South Africa. Also, if we could control them, they wouldn’t be billionaires.
I don’t subscribe to the notion that where you were born defines what nationality you are.
He speaks English, not Afrikaans. He lives in the US, has US citizenship, made his billions in the US, owns several US companies, and the president elect of the US lovingly caresses his dick every night with his wet, pouting lips.the president elect of the US lovingly caresses his dick every night with his wet, pouting lips
I will never not take the opportunity to repost them kissing:
This is so wholesome
I don’t subscribe to the notion that nationality is a real thing, period. I could just as easily argue that none of that matters and he’s “South African” because that’s where he was born and I subscribe to the notion that nationality is something that never goes away.
You’re the one insisting that he’s American for some reason. Maybe don’t make a big deal about things that are fake, don’t matter, and you have idiosyncratic options about. It doesn’t matter, which was the entire point of my comment.
It does matter, and he’s American in absolutely every way that matters.
He’s the ideal that the current American society and culture idolizes. Whether you like to admit it or not.he’s American in absolutely every way that matters.
Did you know that “Every” doesn’t imply “Any”?
It does matter
[citation needed]
They’re untrainable and we can’t get rid of them. They’re just like the *thump* *thump* *thump* from that one song.
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Are you taking about Elon? The South African? The fuck are you on about?
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The Harris and Trump promoters also suddenly went quiet the day after the election.
What did you expect? The election cycle do be like that.
I wish the Trump supporters would go silent.
If you don’t spend your time perpetually online, they are pretty silent.
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Oh, I thought that was because I blocked Trump and Musk in my keywords. It’s been a peaceful time and I expect I shan’t ever go back.
Nor I.
What? Lol? What universe do you live in? Sounds nice
I don’t know about the Trump promoters, but a lot of the people vocally supporting Harris are very much still here, commenting about other topics. A few (but only a few) of the third-party supporters are still here too, for that matter (notable example: @givesomefucks).
That’s how you can tell they’re real users, rather than shills being paid to push an agenda: they didn’t go away when the job ended.
This thread is not about people’s appetite for political discussion, or whether they’re misguided enough to only pay attention to the Presidential election instead of building their party from local offices on up. It’s about whether they were ever legitimate at all to begin with.
Trump promoters also suddenly went quiet the day after the election.
Show me a conservative with their mouth closed and I’ll show you an America where everyone is treated equally.
Trump promoters also suddenly went quiet the day after the election
What the hell have you been smoking lmao
The election is over, did you expect them to keep telling you to vote 3rd party when there is no election to vote for them in? Perhaps you noticed that all the “Vote Harris” commercials stopped too?
“Hey, let’s vote for a candidate who literally cannot win from a party that hasn’t done the necessary work to become nationally viable because I don’t want to be part of the two party problem even though if we do so it will guarantee that a felon rapist who incited an insurrection, stripped women of a human right, and illegally attempted to overturn an election will win.” - Dipshit 3rd Party Voters
Just as stupid as Trump supporters, as far as I’m concerned.
Well, they got what we told them they’d be getting. Why aren’t they celebrating?
They still pop up now and again when they want to justify why Trump being elected was better than the filthy LIBERAL getting into office.
Which, itself, is a bit funny considering that third parties didn’t have much influence on that.
Don’t forget, liberals are Nazi’s and America is committing genocide.
Also “fall of the empire(america)” is a good thing even though that would most certainly result in war crimes and a probable american genocide.
America is committing genocide, but also, liberals are just fearmongering when they say a Trump regime will lead to genocide.
I hate this timeline.
They still pop up now and again when they want to justify why Trump being elected was better than the filthy LIBERAL getting into office.
I’ll take “shit nobody actually said” for 500 Alex
Right here, what do you want?
Apparently you’re supposed to bring up politics when commenting on cat pictures or something.
What do you have to say for yourself?
I’ve historically voted 3rd party. This past election i voted for a party that did not represent me or the policies I support, all out of fear of orange man. What did compromising my values do? Fuck all.
Voting 3rd party in America sends the message to the losing party that if they wanted that vote there is policy they need to adopt. There are things they need to change.
Issue in this election is even if every 3rd party vote went to kamala, she would have still lost, because they ran THAT MUCH of a terrible campaign. Their message was tone deaf. It was generic and lifeless. I could have been a better campaign manager for them and frankly that’s sad.
People get pissy when you criticize dems, but the fact of the matter is they are very much the problem in this country too. Saying they aren’t as bad as Republicans only speaks to just how awful they are, not how good dems are. Until people recognize this and demand change everyone is going to be stuck supporting one of two evils or maybe a 3rd party can steal enough support to replace one of the main 2.
All that hinges on trump not going full dictator. At this point I don’t have confidence enough Americans would actually stand up to stop him.
You done the right thing, don’t fall for the psyops.
Kamala’s campaign was not that terrible in comparison to the state of Trump. Your fellow citizens failed you by letting that eejit gain ground.
Saying they aren’t as bad as Republicans only speaks to just how awful they are, not how good dems are.
I am an anarchist. I’ve never voted. (Not American) But, Bush, Clinton, Obama, much of the same. Trump takes us down a dangerous path. One in which dissident and protest will be squashed.
One in which dissident and protest will be squashed.
All of which already has been going on for decades by both capitalist imperialist parties. Kent state in the 1960s for example!
Yes that’s when it started. We’re now at the exponential stage with the nations pick running on shooting protestors, executing leftists and putting ‘vermin’ in camps.
No offense but you are not American, who is us?
The world. More immediately, the west. Him and his daft son already meddling in our countries affairs.
Kamala’s campaign was not that terrible in comparison to the state of Trump.
This. So many people are trashing Kamala’s campaign while completely ignoring the dumpster fire campaign Trump ran. Probably because Trump being a dumpster fire is just commonly accepted by now. The guy talked about immigrants eating people’s pets and admitting that he only had concepts of plans. It was comical.
But everyone has to focus on Kamala’s campaign because Democrats have ALWAYS been held to a higher standard.
She had to be flawless and he got to be lawless.
Shameful.
The Trump campaign is only a dumpster fire if you’re a blind centrist who refuses to recognize the strength of the enemy.
The Trump campaign was exactly what his voters wanted. It was hours and hours of their god king and his cronies yapping their mouths about any racist thought that popped into their head. He brought up all the problems that his supporters are facing, and he promised change. It didn’t matter that his ideas for change are stupid, or lies, because his opponent was outright denying there were problems at all.
You can hate Trump as much as you want, but his campaign was clearly, grossly more effective than Harris. Whereas Democrats were arguing over all the blunders Harris/Walz was making, the Republicans were lockstep behind their golden god who promised to make all their wildest dreams come true. That’s how you win elections in the U.S., and it’s why everyone with a brain knew the election would be contested in the best case scenario.
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I am an anarchist.
That sounds quite interesting! What do you do that relates to or supports anarchy? (Except not voting obviously)
Counter-economic shit (Agorist).
Helped launch/run the first darknets (pre-silkroad), currently in crypto pushing the p2p monetary movement.
Got any fun reads on this p2p monetary movement? I’m quite interested.
Some good long reads here
Not sure about fun, these maybe a bit more compact tho
https://ergoplatform.org/en/blog/2021-04-26-the-ergo-manifesto/
https://docs.ergoplatform.com/uses/cbdc/
And plenty of interesting things being worked on
https://docs.ergoplatform.com/uses/chaincash/
I’ve historically voted 3rd party. This past election i voted for a party that did not represent me or the policies I support, all out of fear of orange man. What did compromising my values do? Fuck all.
Me too except biden in 2020. And then immediately from the start it was endless frustration, disappointment and anger. Gaza is inexcusable. Fuck the democrats. Fuck America. This country got exactly what it fucking deserved. Karma for meddling in the rest of the worlds affairs by the capitalist imperialist uniparty that pretends to be at odds with each other over social wedge issues yet is United in keeping the entire world under its boot. Now america gets to experience the collapse of the imperial core.
Needless to say I didn’t repeat my mistake of voting for democrats in 2024. I’ll never vote for them again.
I’ve historically voted 3rd party. This past election i voted for a party that did not represent me or the policies I support, all out of fear of orange man. What did compromising my values do? Fuck all.
And? Voting 3rd party would have done fuck all for you too. And you wouldn’t have been helping to potentially keep an anti-democratic felon rapist from the Oval Office.
Voting 3rd party in America sends the message to the losing party that if they wanted that vote there is policy they need to adopt.
It also helps anti-democratic felon rapists become the most influential person on the planet. People who adulted up and voted Dem instead of 3rd party in 2020 did actually prevent that person from taking office. It isn’t a full-proof plan. But it works sometimes.
because they ran THAT MUCH of a terrible campaign
Maybe so. But you aren’t accounting for the MASS misinformation being peddled to Americans. We just elected an anti-democratic felon rapist. That isn’t normal. That happened because the internet is frying a ton of American’s brains and they aren’t acting rationally because they’re so misinformed. The guy about to be sworn in as our leader went off on a tangent about immigrants EATING OUR FUCKING PETS and Americans absorbed that shit hook, line, and sinker. As far as I’m concerned stupid Americans are more to blame than a shoddy campaign. Especially since the other guy’s campaign consisted of TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRANTS EATING OUR PETS and mentioning that he had CONCEPTS OF A PLAN.
People get pissy when you criticize dems
Personally, I get pissy because I actually bothered looking up both party’s voting history and criminal conviction history and I know voting Dem is a WAY, WAY better option for average Americans than voting Republican or 3rd party at this point in American history.
maybe a 3rd party can steal enough support
Lol. This isn’t a video game. There’s no cheat code. No 3rd party has done the work to get representatives elected locally across the nation, slowly building a coalition to eventually get enough clout to put up a presidential candidate that stands a chance. That involves years, decades, of back breaking work. Anyone that tries voting for a 3rd party candidate in a presidential election now, or anytime in the near future, is living in a deep, deep fantasy simulation.
All that hinges on trump not going full dictator. At this point I don’t have confidence enough Americans would actually stand up to stop him.
Guess those 3rd party voters should have put their fantasies aside and voted intelligently. Too late now.
If every third party vote had gone to kamala she would have still lost substantially. The dems shitty campaign, not allowing a democratic primary (repeatedly) and tone deaf policies/messaging is what caused them to lose the easiest election ever. Full stop. They’re not going to ever change. Thinking grassroots will take over the party shows you aren’t paying attention. Thinking ranked choice voting will swoop in and save the day shows you aren’t paying attention.
But ranked choice voting was passed a while ago and upheld in a recent referendum in alaska. State level electoral reform is the way forward to viable third parties.
(IMO STAR voting is better than RCV, but either is a vast improvement to our current hostage situation known as First-past-the-post voting)
There is a growing number of states that have banned ranked choice, even on the city level. Many of these same states prohibit voter led ballot initiatives. In case you were wondering, their state reps are stacked primarily on one side of the aisle. What’s your solution to overcoming that?
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Told you so?
But we told them so.
Vote 3rd party and an anti-democratic felon rapist will be your leader.
Then it happened.
Could they also tell us I told you so?
3rd party voters, “Focus on these issues or we won’t vote for you and you will lose.”
Dems didn’t listen to voters and instead moved closer to corporations/conservatives.
Then it happened.
Dems didn’t listen to voters and instead moved closer to corporations/conservatives.
And now those 3rd party voters who didn’t want that, are getting that, to the extreme.
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But that doesn’t change my comment.
First of all, 3rd party voters could make the difference in any given election because multiple elections have been much closer than this one. They had no idea whether they were going to make the difference or not when they filled out their ballots.
Secondly, many, if not most, of those 3rd party voters REALLY didn’t want Trump, but they also wanted a 3rd party canidate more than Harris. Now they get Trump, their least favorite pick. And again, they filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to be responsible for that happening or not.
Also, while it didn’t matter overall, at least Wisconsin would have swung Harris if she got the majority of 3rd party voters, not even all of them. So it did matter in some states, even though probably not in enough.
But the point is they COULD have made the difference and for all they knew at the time were making the difference because in other elections 3rd party votes have made the difference. If anything, it not mattering in this election is just going to embolden them to vote 3rd party again in another election where we find out afterward that it really would have made the difference.
And it’s not like there’s any reality at all where their 3rd party candidate could have won, so why take that massive gamble? The bottom line is that we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election, so it’s patently stupid to vote 3rd party in a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
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Would’ve happened regardless of my vote and the votes of Green/PSL voters. Your candidate had the worst electoral performance since the Republicans took California. Would’ve needed a better candidate and a party that actually listens to criticism, instead y’all chose to stuff your fingers in your ears and dismiss any and all criticism and proceeded to eat shit, as we told you would happen. You can’t pin this one on us, the failure is on your candidate and party.
Would’ve needed a better candidate and a party that actually listens to criticism
Liberals (and independents) complained that Biden was too old (despite Trump being equally old) and it became a serious issue and they replaced him with a younger candidate. That’s called listening to criticism.
You can’t pin this one on us
Not retroactively. But every single 3rd party voter filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to make the difference or not. Because some elections have come a lot closer than this one and 3rd party voters did make the difference. It’s not particularly meaningful to me that you point out it wasn’t your fault after the fact, when you didn’t know whether it would be your fault or not at the time. That’s like a kid admitting he threw the kitchen knife at his sister but it didn’t hit her so everything is totally fine and the subject can be closed.
The fact remains that it’s patently stupid to vote for a 3rd party presidential candidate because we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
Not retroactively. But every single 3rd party voter filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to make the difference or not. Because some elections have come a lot closer than this one and 3rd party voters did make the difference. It’s not particularly meaningful to me that you point out it wasn’t your fault after the fact, when you didn’t know whether it would be your fault or not at the time. That’s like a kid admitting he threw the kitchen knife at his sister but it didn’t hit her so everything is totally fine and the subject can be closed.
The question is what you’re looking at. If your primary concern is understanding why Kamala lost, then it is very relevant to point out the fact that we did not cost her the election. If your primary concern is establishing the moral standing of individual voters, then I suppose it’s less relevant.
To be perfectly clear, if we cost a candidate like Kamala the election, I would be perfectly fine with it. I wish that we did represent a larger contingent of the vote so that we had the power to deny a win to any candidate that doesn’t meet our demands. It would be preferable if our kitchen knife hit and we could claim credit for it. Unfortunately, your candidate lost for other reasons.
Of course, the only analysis liberals seem capable of is looking at the moral purity of individual voters. It is inconceivable to punch up and critique our rulers. The Democratic party can never fail, it can only be failed. This aversion to self-critique and reflection is itself part of why the Democrats failed, and why they will continue to fail.
How?
The Democrats insisted their candidate was good enough, but we weren’t on board? We said that, and got ignored, and the Dems lost
Nobody was denying that was an outcome, just that it was a daft one. That’s why they were trying to convince you it was daft. You could only say ‘Told you so’, if what they were saying wasn’t true.
It wouldn’t have changed the outcome regardless of how we voted or what we said. But the criticisms we were making weren’t just about our own values or preferences, they were things that would have allowed her to appeal to a much broader section of the population. It was not our willingness to criticize and take a stand that caused this, but the Democrats’ stubbornness and unwillingness to listen to criticism.
Ultimately, it just goes to show the necessity of building a better party from the ground up. The one thing Democrats are supposed to be good for is keeping Trump out, they’ve abandoned any pretence of actually helping people or not committing mass murder, and they can’t even do that. It’s a sinking ship.
It introduced apathy that could’ve changed the outcome. You’re not including all the people who didn’t vote.
There were no easy policies that would’ve led to victory. Doesn’t matter if the policies are objectively good or popular as she was up against a misinformation machine. She ran a near perfect campaign in the time she had. And Biden only came back initially because yous already voted Trump in once. You got exactly the government you deserve unfortunately.
Could’ve united and killed the republicans party. Locked Trump up. Shifted the Overton window back and gotten some leftists as the opposition but looks like you’ll need to do it the hard way.
I guess you prefer anti-democratic felon rapists over run-of-the-mill Democrats.
Thanks for being honest about it.
Which third party candidate is an anti-democratic felon rapist?
If you’re implying that I’m not voting for the Democrats and thereby supporting Trump, sleep well knowing I didn’t vote Blue in 2016 or 2020 either.
Which third party candidate is an anti-democratic felon rapist?
Right over your head.
If you’re implying that I’m not voting for the Democrats and thereby supporting Trump
I’m not implying. It’s a simple fact. One that you don’t appear to be capable of understanding.
But please, keep being a stable genius by voting for candidates that cannot, and will not, win until their parties do the work necessary to become viable, which they aren’t.
That shit makes you look real smart.
Right here, what do you want?
Generally speaking, I think we want you to be a more intelligent voter.
You voted for somebody complicit in a genocide. You call that intelligent? Do you think it becomes intelligent because 70+ million other people also did it? Real “if everyone else jumped off a bridge” moment.
You voted for somebody complicit in a genocide.
I voted for someone whose values, and whose party’s values, are closer to what I believe is best for average citizens in the United States of America, based on hard data over the course of decades. If the other option was better for Palestine then maybe your argument would make sense…but that isn’t the case, so it doesn’t.
Instead, 3rd party voters voted for candidates that had absolutely, positively, undeniably no chance of winning, and now they get a president that least represents their ideals.
Real intelligent.
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OTOH, been seeing lots of posts brought to you by the “democrats don’t need to change, it’s the voters who are wrong” gang.
The voters voted in Trump again so maybe there’s something there.
I mean, yeah, sure. There’s a lot of fucking scumbag MAGA people. There’s also a lot of people who pay almost no attention to politics at all and have a lot of problems.
Quick! In one sentence, summarize Kamala’s campaign pitch. If you did it without mentioning Trump or Biden, I’m impressed, good job, I’m pretty interested in what you came up with. Now, do Trump. Probably something stupid like “you’ll be winning so much” or whatever, right? If you knew nothing at all about politics, which one sounds better? For someone who isn’t paying attention, maybe distrusts all politicians equally (for better or worse), probably Trump’s. Of course, he’s going to be fucking catastrophic for anyone who isn’t a billionaire, but I’m just talking campaign pitches. The point is that the democrats need to take this opportunity to get their shit together and start working on a better pitch than “not Trump”.
Her pitch was pretty clear and she gave concrete policies all the time this was just a narrative pushed by MAGA
No, I know she gave concrete policies, I watched the debate. What I mean is that
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The policies weren’t much to write home about
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I’m asking about the elevator pitch. Give me the campaign message in one sentence.
Continuing the good things Biden had done (chips act, student debt cancellation, etc), while protecting reproductive rights, at least pretending to treat minorities like humans, while being the only rational option that had a chance.
Okay, great! Now, here’s where I point out the problems. Keep in mind that I am not happy that Trump won, what I want is for the democrats to take their well-earned lessons from their fuck up and not fuck up again, instead of staying in denial of any responsibility and trundling into the midterms convinced that they did everything perfect in '24.
- A lot of voters fundamentally didn’t feel the good things Biden did. We have a lot of student loans debt, and I can live with the fact that our debt didn’t get cancelled, but it’s really frustrating that they touted the payment plans for those whose debt remained as some kind of win. Those cool payment plans they were making a fuss about actually would have increased our payments. More on that below, but that’s kind of the general vibe of Biden’s accomplishments and how they were oversold in '24. Yeah, he did undeniably do some good things, but those good things were ultimately just kind of okay for the average person, and got sold as if he was the ghost of FDR. A lot of folks are out there drowning, and the campaign’s messaging vibe around it was “congratulations on having been rescued by Joe Biden!” It’s a little like when you’re on hold with a cable company for four hours because they’re the only Internet provider, or you’re playing phone tag with the health insurance company because they’re the only option provided by your employer, and they start bragging about how cool they are on the hold message. It does not spark joy. If you pointed out that the economy wasn’t better for the average person, or that the messaging was tone-deaf, you got accused of being MAGA and told to shut up. So, the message of “continuing Biden” in a time where incumbents around the world were getting their asses beaten, and Biden was at his lowest popularity yet, was a huge fucking mistake imo.
I still don’t get why they had to die on the hill of defending a guy who was no longer seeking re-election when they had a perfect opportunity to put distance between them. It should have been the obvious thing to do when the Trump campaign was also trying to make sure that voters associated Kamala with Biden.
- I don’t think that fear is effective messaging anymore, and I’m not sure it ever was. Running on “Trump’s going to get you”, even if it is true, has a 50% track record (at the time, now 33%) at the best interpretation, 0% at worst (being that Biden didn’t run on “Trump’s going to get you”). There’s too many people who don’t follow politics closely. As someone who likes arguing with strangers online, this confounds me, but it’s true. I don’t think fear-based messaging is meaningful for those folks, even if true.
I mean, pretend you didn’t pay attention to politics. What’s a better one sentence pitch? What you said, or “you’re going to win a lot, you’ll be tired of winning”?
P.S. Following up on student loans: It’s also frustrating that instead of trying to make a meaningful change to at least start addressing the system that creates the student debt problem, the big fix they offered was a band-aid of debt forgiveness (for some people). That’s not meaningful change, it’s a band-aid.
It seems whenever someone pointed out that the the economy wasn’t better for the average person, people weren’t told to shut up or accused of being MAGA. But told that ‘the economy’ doesn’t measure cost of living for normal people. It’s the stock market. Regardless of that it was better by most measures comparing the rebound against other countries. Disinformation was just more effective and reality did not matter.
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/image_454.png
If one can side just fabricate a southern invasion, or convince people inflation is high when it isn’t. It doesnt really matter what the other side does.
If you didn’t pay attention to politics you should’ve been able to take one look at Trumps actions around Jan6 and vote against it, no listing to the media required. It was transparent AF. Recordings of him trying to coerce more votes out of states, and all the nonsense that came afterwards, etc. But unfortunately fear is too effective, and the Dems are much worse at it. Too busy nitpicking a lame campaign and sowing doubt rather than the pure denial and unity the people want.
what I want is for the democrats to take their well-earned lessons from their fuck up and not fuck up again
Wonder how many rights we’ll lose and how fucked up our economy will be by the time we get the felon rapist out of office, assuming we can get him and his party out of office after they attempt to make good on their promise to “reorganize” our government after inciting an insurrection to topple it. But at least maybe Democrats will “learn their lesson” by then.
I don’t think that fear is effective messaging anymore
Lol. That’s literally how Republicans win. They cornered the market on it. They developed fear-based politics into an art form. THEY’RE EATING OUR PETS. INVADING IMMIGRANT CARAVANS. THEY’RE STEALING YOUR JOBS AND RAPING YOUR CHILDREN. BIDEN IS TOO OLD (totally ignore that our guy is equally old).
If anything, Democrats need to learn how to lie and scare people into voting for them more effectively, because clearly that’s what nets American votes.
What’s a better one sentence pitch? What you said, or “you’re going to win a lot, you’ll be tired of winning”?
I mean I guess if I cosplayed a moron I’d go with the winning comment. If I remain in the shoes of someone with a normal number of brain cells, then I’d rather hear about accomplishments and policy.
My life has gotten markedly worse since biden and so has that of all my coworkers. More of the same “nothing will fundamentally change” Biden except as a first black Indian woman president!!! is simply not appealing and it has nothing to do with identity politics. This economy is destroying the working class. My entire department coworkers voted for trump, almost all of them for the first time. It’s vermont. They’re pro women, pro lgbtq, don’t care about race. But Biden’s economic policies did not help them at all. All of the twice obama thrice trump voters? Same fucking thing. But that doesn’t fit the neat little identity politics narrative conveniently invented to keep people from talking about class issues and gaining class consciousness. You see, the working class greatly surpasses the ruling class in size and we’re heavily armed. Don’t want the working class getting any ideas so best to invent or manipulate identity issues to keep it divided.
If only you’d talk to people instead of parroting liberal MSM talking points that remind me of bush claiming Islamic terrorism was because they hate us! And not you know, the product of decades of US intervention in the Middle East especially the support of Israel’s bullshit.
But objectively Bidens policies were better for them. This is the problem with voting on feels and not data. Unless they voted for Trump to burn the system down in hopes that’d improve things, they voted for their situations to worsen. As well as the situation of those vulnerable groups they ‘care’ about.
But Biden is SOOOOOOOOOO old. Like 3 whole years older than the ancient rapist we just elected.
I mean, we know Democrats are a WAY better option for the average American, but can you imagine someone 3 WHOLE years older than the felon we elected being president? Totally unacceptable.
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Her pitch was “more drilling” and “more war” and “no changes to healthcare”.
What was she clear about again ? Her overwhelming support for the Genocide of Gaza ? Yes
Off the top of my head
- Being the objectively better option on Gaza. Actually responded like a human and cared about public pressure here saying things like “International humanitarian law must be respected” and advocated for a 2-state solution vs Trumps ‘We’re gonna tell them do whatever they want to get the job done’ (greater israel incoming)
- Said she would pass a middle class tax cut that will benefit 100m+ Americans
- $25k for first-time homebuyers
- Maintain/increase the surging Economy
- Give women reproductive freedom.
- Continue to move towards universal single payer healthcare.
- Continue the advancements in non fossil fuel energy development.
Except she didn’t promise any of that (not her in particular) & the 2-state solution is a farce where the Genocide will still continue & Israel will be given more priority & as for reproductive rights Never though killing unborn children was a reproductive right
Huh? Many of those were her original campaign promises.
Genocide will be ramped up and concerns ignored instead of just continuing while facing increasing public scrutiny and backlash. He literally told you this. Biden was a zionist at heart but Kamala would’ve softened after winning. And even if she didn’t. Argument isn’t whether she was good for Gaza, it’s that she was objectively, better than Trump.
Trump says Israel needs to ‘finish what they started’ and said war with Hamas is ‘taking a long time’
Trump told Netanyahu he wants Gaza war over by time he enters office
vs
Kamala Harris says ‘I will not be silent’ on suffering in Gaza after Netanyahu talks
The current GOP is busy writing “finish them” on Israeli artillery shells. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/nikki-haley-writes-finish-them-israeli-artillery-shell-drawing-criticism-2024-05-29/
There is no argument for letting Trump/GOP get in if you care about Gaza. Of course they’re worse.
Miriam Adelson sought support from candidate Trump for Israel’s annexation of the West Bank, pledging more than $100 million to Trump’s campaign in exchange for U.S. recognition of Israel’s sovereignty over the region.
It has ensured Palestine’s erasure. We’re now in the ‘Greater Israel’ period in U.S politics
Friedman, however, suggests that we should not look to Trump but to those around him — to figures like former ambassador David Friedman, Jason Greenblatt, and others who pledge to continue the unfinished work of Trump’s first term. These are the people who will be at the center of what Friedman calls a “Greater Israel” period in U.S. policy: supporting Israeli annexation and ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, Gaza, and parts of Lebanon; lifting sanctions on settlers; and preventing any bans on weapons transfers. “They have lists of things that they are ready to do,” Friedman says, warning that we should take them at their word.
as for reproductive rights Never though killing unborn children was a reproductive right
Giving a woman the right to choose to abort her fetus or not is definitely a reproductive right and also a basic human right.
It’s healthcare and it is not for politicians to decide when it should be between a woman and her doctor.
I like how you talk more about Israel/Palestine than you do about the United States.
Priorities looking real good.
better option on Gaza
DOUBT!
Said she would pass a middle class tax cut that will benefit 100m+ Americans
Yeah right, why wasn’t it done already then?
$25k for first-time homebuyers
Big whoop, homes will increase 25k in price.
Maintain/increase the surging Economy
Surging economy for whom?! the liberal elites? Yeah ok.
Give women reproductive freedom.
And the democrats had FIFTY FUCKING YEARS to codify roe v Wade but cynically fundraised off it instead. YEAH RIGHT. That’s total bullshit. If she was serious why didn’t it happen under biden and why would it magically happen under her? No, nothing would change. Just more fundraising, this dumbass spent a billion to lose an election because nobody fucking believes a word out of democrat mouths anymore for good fucking reason! Like an abusive romantic relationship where the partner constantly promises change and never delivers and then gaslights you over it. And you wonder why they’re breaking up!
Continue to move towards universal single payer healthcare.
Bullshit and empty promises. Democrat senator from Connecticut joe Lieberman single-handedly killed Obamacare’s public option after being bribed by the insurance companies that are headquartered in his state. He’s dead but there’s always a democrat patsy to protect the capitalists they actually represent. Sinema, Manchin, the unheard of senate parliamentarian when it came to raising the federal minimum wage. There’s always somebody democrat aligned to protect corporate donors interests and block any kind of meaningful reform.
Continue the advancements in non fossil fuel energy development.
Too little too late. See the LA wildfires for an example. We’re already cooked. The time to act was decades ago but did the democrats do anything meaningful? NO! They protected their corporate donors and the capitalist class as they always do. Schadenfreude watching the houses of the extreme wealthy burn!
The argument wasn’t whether or not people believed her. It was on whether or not they knew what the policies were.
But to deny she was the better option for Gaza is just delusion.
Lazy comment is lazy.
She tried to buy voters and it failed because noone trusts democrats to follow through on promises without them being backhanded or benefiting a group of people that aren’t involved.
Said literally days after Democrats banned medical debt from showing up on credit reports.
I’m referring to her policy proposals of giving money away for various reasons.
You’re getting downvoted, but Kamala simply ran a better campaign than Trump. She was all about hope and inclusion, which is undeniably a better message than “hate this person I’m telling you to hate”. She decimated him in the debate, going over policy while he talked about immigrants eating pets and having concepts of plans.
She ran a better campaign. In a very short period of time.
She lost because
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There’s a lot of hate in America.
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Americans are easily misinformed and manipulated by disinformation. The average American is too goddamn lazy and stupid to lookup data and make responsible decisions based off that data.
Winning the vote is the only metric that actually counts for how good a campaign is.
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We are not going back -> progressiv politics for the challenges of the future
That’s what I get stuck on every time. Yeah, the democrats are useless and need to make big changes. They carry a lot of blame. But it’s not just people being fed up with their useless asses. The voters turned out in big numbers to vote FOR Trump. We expected the results to take a long time and be contentious again, but the morning after Election Day his victory was already clear.
It’s just… sad? Discouraging?
Extremely discouraging. I’m still incredulous that he got re-elected, and moreso that the democrats managed to fuck it up bad enough to lose to that fucking guy again
I’ll be honest, I can’t even really be mad at them. I can’t think of anything they should have done differently.
I don’t know what you do when your economic plan is countered by “mine is better, I’ll give you details later”, and “immigrants will eat your pets”.
How about not trying to pretend that Biden was fine all through the primary right up until he went up on the debate stage and blew his legs off on national TV? I think that probably would have been a great start.
I’ll be honest, I can’t even really be mad at them. I can’t think of anything they should have done differently.
You’re kidding, right?
Thing #1, in giant flashing marquee letters, would’ve been “pick an AG who would’ve actually gone after the traitorous coup leader instead of sitting on his ass for two years.” Remember, Merrick Garland’s original qualification for his SCOTUS nomination was being so conservative that even Mitch McConnell had no excuse to reject him. It should’ve been blatantly obvious to everyone that that made him the absolute wrong choice for AG.
Things #2 - infinity can basically be summarized as “all the stuff that would actually help the working class, which the Democrats’ major corporate donors would never actually allow them to do.”
Thing 3: demand biden be a one term president and hold a legitimate primary instead of coronating Kamala who would of never won in a competitive primary that didn’t have the DNC ratfucking it.
Yup. If reality is subjective you can’t really win an election without cornering the market on fear, which is the one thing Republicans are good at.
democrats managed to fuck it up bad enough to lose to that fucking guy again
Can’t fix dumbass Americans, no matter how good your campaign is.
Okay, but where do you go with that? What do you do with that? There’s nothing you can do with “the voters are wrong” except to assure yourself that you’re right as you keep getting your ass kicked by sociopaths, idiots, and clowns every election. It’s loser talk.
The voters aren’t wrong, the democrats need to get up off their ass, stop relying on not being the other guy, and actually give the no-voters a reason to show up to the polls.
I’m of the belief they fucked up on purpose. It’s fraud (not the election, their behavior) so they can fundraise off it.
It’s just… sad? Discouraging?
It’s pathetic is what it is.
America gleefully RE-ELECTED an anti-democratic felon rapist who removed women’s rights, incited an insurrection, illegally attempted to overturn an election, stole and refused to return classified documents, and fumbled the response to the greatest American crisis since WW2.
We’re squarely in the “trash society” category now. The only thing we’re the greatest at is having a lot of firepower.
I get your point, but absolutely 100% unironically it is the voters who are wrong.
Trump lead an insurrection, is a confirmed rapist, convicted felon, twice impeached, wear dampers because he’s incontinencent, openly scammed his voters out of their money multiple times and has vowed to be a dictator.
A sloppy dog shit should have won against him.
A sloppy dog shit should have won against him.
Which is why I maintain that it’s the DNC’s fault. Trying to win by asking voters to vote against someone is a dog shit strategy with a dog shit track record. In fact, in a lot of regards, Kamala’s campaign was run pretty similarly to Hillary’s. For me, the chief similarity is that they tried to rely on fear and shaming and celebrity appearances (by the second half of the campaign) instead of offering an impactful policy slate. To boot, I seem to recall that a lot of team Hillary ended up running Kamala’s campaign, so I guess it’s not too shocking that they muzzled a lot of her left leaning ideals and basically ran Hillary pt II. One would have hoped that they would have learned anything from '16 besides voter blaming, though. I’d like to point out that Kamala gained the most ground in the first half of her campaign when it was about excitement, when people were hopeful that she’d have some progressive policies and before it was known that her policy plank was the basic centrist corporate democrat plank.
It also didn’t help that they pretended and insisted Joe was fine all through the primary, so we didn’t get one, insisted he was fine and we just didn’t have any choice but to vote blue after Joe blew his legs off and bled all over the debate stage for 90 minutes on national TV, and only started leaning on him once the really disastrous poll numbers started rolling in.
Except that’s ignoring the elephant in the room. Sure they could have run a better campaign, if they did they might have even been able to win, but the best campaign in history is still not going to win over a single MAGA cultists, and even if Kamala won, those people would not go away, they will still be there the next election to vote for a Trump and there propaganda machine will make sure there is even more of them next time too and that they are even more fanatical.
That’s the real problem and things aren’t going to get better unless we actually stop the maga cult from recruiting and/ or deprogram them.
This is your daily reminder that Trump pulled about the same numbers as he did in 2020, but Kamala pulled about 5 million less than Joe did in 2020. The republicans didn’t overperform, the democrats underperformed.
Cool, you’re completely ignoring the point of my comment.
No. I didn’t. The person who won the popular vote was no vote. Fuck maga, the democrats need to be giving people a reason to show up.
Yes you did. And you’re still missing it.
The point of my comment is that the election result is a side effect of the real issue.
Trump got 62m votes in 2016, 74m in 2020 and 77m in 2024. So even when the dems DID beat him, and even when he killed off millions of his supporters with covid, he only got more popular. His cult grows and grows and becomes more fanatical. THAT is the real problem. And nothing the dems can do in a campaign will convert a fanatical trump supporter, so unless we can do something to stop his cult growing at the very least, then it’s not going to matter how good the dems campaign is.
Exactly, supposedly, it is the voter’s fault for not taking Trump seriously, even though the DNC absolutely refuses to.
100% unironically it is the voters who are wrong.
Yup. We just had the most obvious election we’re ever likely to experience and voters still managed to drop the ball. You can place blame on Democrats, and some of it would be justified, but the blame primarily lies on trash ass American voters. We are AWFUL at voting. We are AWFUL at informing ourselves responsibly.
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And I personally think it’s astroturfing. The political parties spend tons of $ to influence opinion. Why wouldn’t they hire a bunch of bots to push their message in this space?
How can you lose an election so bad and think that it’s the voters who need to change? The tail does not wag the dog, democrats! I refuse to believe this is genuine sentiment. I live in a very liberal state and IRL conversation it’s fuck the democrats, a whole lot of people I work with were first time trump voters. BLUE STATE. One of the most liberal. Home to Bernie sanders!
Cough, “DarkFuture”, cough, replying to every single comment in this thread, cough
I had some time, so I figured I’d call you out again:
In this post:
You commented 54 times
They commented 49 times.Cough….
It’s always the same accounts and there seems to be immediate group voting as you will see an almost immediate and usually similar number in these kinds of posts as if they are waiting and refreshing comments to make sure there is their brand of discontent.
Honestly it’s a shame that the mods keep allowing this instead of telling them to shut up and take a breather instead of trying to start fights and make shit up that makes this social site worse on a weekly basis.
democrats don’t need to change, it’s the voters who are wrong
Why not both?
It appears to me that not only does the Democrat party need to get better at messaging, but that a very large swath of Americans are also braindead stupid and easily manipulated.
Well, that’s one take. I’ve worked around a lot of rural Republican voters, and they’re probably some of the most heavily propagandized people on earth. There’s such a a knowledge and information gulf there by design, it’s going to take something huge to break people out of it. True story, I attempted several times throughout my life to get a fair understanding of the situation in Israel, always coming up sort of befuddled except that police states are something I take at face value as bad. This last year has cleared the befuddlement, but feeling good that I had a fair assessment of things before then felt nearly impossible, even with a semi-concerted effort, because of how much bullshit there was on all sides.
But, I’d wager you don’t need republicans. Trying to flip republicans is moot. They should be trying to get no-voters.
Still advocating for state level electoral reform so people can vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect.
Why are you okay with people being unrepresented with their options in the voting booth? Don’t you support democracy?
In fact no. These are the very same people that prefer a dictator to take de facto power over the will of the people( see Venezuela) just because the will of the people doesn’t align with their ideology this time
So yeah
You just perfectly described the ‘leftists’ who sat home instead of voting for Harris.
You mean liberals, there’s no legitimate lefty there
No I mean leftists.
No you mean Liberals
Liberals liked Harris but the self-described leftists like Trump.
I assure you that I know what I mean.
Narrator: The Stein cicada has gone back underground to hibernate 4 more years. She will eventually resurface to make her cicada noises next election cycle
I take it you don’t follow her on social media, because she is still actively posting? What are you accusing her of, exactly?
A true revolutionary I see
Does she still hang much with genocidal autocrats, psychopaths and christofascists?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/05/flynn-putin-dinner-payment-security-clearance-photo/
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Posting on social media? So you think just yapping on twitter is enough for her to earn votes?
Name something she’s actually done.
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Now’s the exact time to promote third parties.
If there actually were any. The only reason we hear about them ever is to promote spoiler candidates. Most are entirely funded by the GOP.
Yeah, like the brainworm anti-vax guy that’s now going to be in charge of our health as restitution for siphoning voters from Dems.
Any third party that’s actually trying to build a coalition and provide viable candidates would absolutely be working overtime right now.
Maybe thats the point. Wheres the discussion, the coalition?
You’re not going to believe this but most of that is happening in meatspace communities because right now we’re in a phase of local community action. There aren’t larger scale elections that catch the focus of greater social media. Some states do have governors coming up this year but you probably won’t see general or local election stuff unless you’re deep in some board specifically for a city or state.
Now what you might see people talking about unionizing efforts and you maybe have been seeing some memes about a mario brother.
That’s where their comments likely are.
Yup, but most likely it’ll be crickets until a month or two out from the next election when they’ll turn on their shiny lights and attract all the assholes that think showing interest and voting for a 3rd party right before an election, and only right before an election, is actually going to do something.
Yeah. On a local/state level. For a long, long time before one can even stand a snowball’s chance in hell of winning a presidential election.
“Yes, but as a strategic move, give up on controlling the most important single office in the country.”
Perot won 19% in 1992. Why has the trend inverted?
Jill Stein received less than 1% of the vote. Scapegoat someone else.
It’s not the 3rd party candidates that are being scapegoated, it’s the people who sat about yelling about how terrible Kamela is and people should vote 3rd party or stay home. Now, shockingly, when people didn’t show up to vote for the D ticket we ended up with the R option and things are already getting chaotic before he’s in office. Yet they apparently are perfectly OK with this result.
You cannot quantify how many people stayed home, nor their reason for doing so, but I did just quantify how many people voted third party. Everything else is conjecture.
Jill Stein received less than 1% of the vote. Scapegoat someone else**'s voters.**
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This is like the ~2 month period in between US election spam, I quite enjoy it. I really don’t need 12 months a year of yanks bitching about their idiotic government.
As one of said “yanks” I wholeheartedly agree, chap.
Someone expresses disdain for the democratic party in community
Get comments removed/banned for this
Don’t interact with the community anymore
oMg WhErE dId ThEy gO???
I think the real problem was those that stayed home. Turnout wasn’t great.
Hi! I’m right here!
Liking your new president?
I haven’t liked any president in my life, no.
If stopping trump is so important, then why didn’t democrats replace First-past-the-post voting with a more representative electoral system? So people could be free to vote how they wish, safe in the knowledge their vote would still be counted against Republicans if their preference didn’t win.
More people voting statistically means more votes for democrats. Why are the democrats saying no to these easy votes? Where is the urgency?
What would you do for more then one chance to beat the Republicans? Would you campaign for electoral reform in your state like Alaskans did?
That’s right, a state has already done away with FPTP voting. It’s possible, as voting is controlled at the state level.
You have to admit that losing to Trump twice is fucking embarrassing, and it should destroy any notion that the democratic party should be the only poltical party to fight this fight. They have more then lost that privilege long ago.
The Democratic party is not more important then the United States of America. If only the DNC felt the same way…
