They sell things that come in cups, or with napkins. Lots of people cycle/run/walk here instead of driving, seems pretty stupid.
Taking away the bins doesn’t mean you don’t produce rubbish…
Edit: I think there is still a bin IN the cafe, but most people eat/drink outside. Lots of people asking staff where the bins are. Still hypocritical I think though? (And still mildly infuriating to remove well used bins!)
I used to work for the Woodland Trust and believe that this is the right thing to do. Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow and attract unwanted pests like rats. Rats will also eat the eggs of ground nesting birds and cause other environmental issues.
If they are selling food on site then the food vendor should have a bin that their customers can use inside their cabin/cafe and dispose of the waste daily as part of the service.
Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow
Think I found the problem— why not do the obvious thing and empty them more often?
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
If people weren’t such babies and cleaned up after themselves, we wouldn’t need to waste taxpayers money on cleaning up after adults who could do it themselves.
I dunno about you, but if I see a bin in a public area, I assume some is paid to empty it. I don’t empty it myself.
If you took your own garbage with you like a decent human, there would be no bins to be emptied and you would have better uses for that tax money.
Where did I imply the public should be doing it….?
So your entire argument is public bins are useless?
You understand that people should clean up after themselves whether or not there is a bin, but offering a bin is a useful service that greatly helps people out can be compatible right.
The cafe has a bin inside of it, put your garbage there before leaving.
They removed the bins from the public forestry path.
Not everyone is using the cafe? People are allowed not to eat in a private restaurant. The availability of a bin shouldn’t be dependent on spending money.
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
Sounds like there’s a bunch of people and some kind of organisation that runs this area, after all, they made the decision to take the bins away. This is also a cafe area, so someone’s making money off this zone.
THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
Yes… the sign is from the forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
If this was a businesses garbage, those usually aren’t overrun, since they have plenty of time and money to deal with the garbage.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
he forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
great. good.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
???
The problem isn’t that a park removed their trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash cans.
The cafe still has garbage cans inside, and why would the forestry speak for the cafe…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry, why would you claim the cafe removed the bins when they stated THEY did themselves?
It’s like people just make shit up to get mad about. The sign told you who removed it for fucks sakes lmfao.
What makes you think the cafe still has bins inside? The OP here is claiming the bins were removed from the cafe/picnic area.
Because they legally have to? You can’t have a food service business and not have garbage and recycling bins….
Are you just gonna make up any stupid reason you can come up with now to try and save face that you can’t read a sign?
The OP also claims there is still trash bins inside; and the edit to add this information was done 1 hour before this guy claims there is no bins inside 🤦♂️.
So they can’t afford to keep the land they have in trust so it is all the landless peasantry that should labor for the land holders because kindness ?
Wild argument. No one is “laboring for land holders”, they’re cleaning up after themselves for their own good and the good of everyone/thing around them
Me, via my taxes I would expect.
Genuine answer here, as someone who volunteers for the parks. A lot of times the budgets are tight, depending on whose responsibility it is to clean up the area and what services are there/nearby, the staffing just isn’t available. Yeah it’s a pretty easy thing to do in theory, but in practice when it becomes “okay and 2 hours of your shift is driving out there and emptying the cans” it’s not a far leap to just “Remove the cans, make the snack stand dispose of their garbage on their own”
I mean I get it, the cans are nice but also, like you’re an adult. Throw your trash away on your own.
“But then people will throw it on the ground!” Okay then pay someone to stand out there and slap every idiot that thinks littering is okay because they couldn’t find a can in 10 seconds.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can. It’s not hard.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can.
But you’ve removed all the cans rather than fix your budgeting problems.
I’m sure the parking lot or your house has one. Why do you think other people should pay for your laziness to dispose of your own garbage?
That’s the function of the parks service. And it’s taxpayer money, so it’s my money paying for it too.
The function of the parks service is to maintain the parks, rivers, and forests (aka nature) of the area they operate. Idk what in your view makes “nature conservation” overlap with “making sure entitled lazy dickheads have a trash can every 10 feet they can ignore” but you might want to reevaluate your stance here. Govt funding is tight enough for these agencies trying to do what they can as it is. Catering to “But I don’t want to hold my trash for 10 minutes” like a whining baby is not their concern. Nor should anyones be. You’re a grown adult. Take your trash, shove it in a pocket or a bag until you can throw it away like an adult.
Do you think you are currently speaking to any litterers? What in the world makes you think a) your rant will ever reach them, and b) that it will make them suddenly become decent people?
People are shit. You get trash in the bin or trash on the ground. I prefer the bin.
So now instead of them being able to provide other services they need to continue piddling money away so you can be lazy and throw your trash where you please?
People don’t want to pay more taxes so you can just be lazy and need garbage cans every 20 feet dude… shitty take lmfao. They would much rather the money go to making things better, not perpetuating laziness and creating eyesores.
Do you think people like seeing and smelling garbage bins while taking a nature walk?! Seriously?
Better than seeing trash everywhere dude
With that logic, why go to this park? The parking lot is outside and with nature and your house would have trees and nature around. So we should just all stay home near our trashcans. Ridiculous.
… did you hit your head today?
That’s literally the patio of a commercial place that sells food enclosed in trash.
If they rely on volunteers to clean the trash, a lot of people are doing lots of things very wrong.
Because that would mean employing someone to empty them regularly, and as most woodland is few and far between in this country most woodland owners deem that an unnecessary expense.
There’s a cafe and forestry workers, is it that time consuming?
And how do they get the garbage to the dump? You would need vehicles, insurance, garage, maintenance departments… it all snowballs.
Just be responsible for your own garbage, not a hard concept.
The cafe will have a contract with someone to take away waste, this waste could be included.
I totally agree people should take away rubbish that they create, unfortunately many dont.
Public waste wouldn’t be included in the cafes waste, you expecting them to foot the bill?
Sounds like the cafe is run by forestry England. If they don’t want thick and lazy people to chuck waste around the forest and cafe area, I think they should provide bins. Unfortunately, some people don’t care.
In this instance, yes, but which is why I said the cafe worker should have an internal bin for customer usage. In most other cases there is no one on site for weeks at a time.
Didn’t realise visits would be so irregular, so I apologise for the sarcasm.
Also hate that people are shit.
This is right by the cafe/site office/car park though. The reception desk is about 20m to the left and staffed during daylight hours year round.
Not like it’s in the middle of nowhere.
I get your point, there are very few bins elsewhere (mostly by the other car parks) and that’s fine. It’s just that the place that gives you rubbish makes it hard to responsibly get rid of it.
Isn’t there a bin at the cafe?
I think that’s the problem. I interpret it as the cafe removed their bins.
It’s a sign from the forest ministry, they removed their bins.
Why on earth would you think a sign from the ministry of forestry would be speaking for and removing a cafes bins…?
Read the fucking sign for fucks sakes. It’s literally, right fucking there.
Read the fucking post for fucks sake. It’s right fucking there.
The sign says the bins were removed. The post headline says the bins were removed from the cafe area. This is a cafe at a visitor center at a forest.
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Sorry to break it to you, but the OP explicitly states that they believe bins are still inside the cafe. In other comments they also claim they are still available at other nearby parking lots.
The cafe is a building itself and the park removed the bins from outside.
You realize that OP probably missed stuff or intentionally withheld information to make this sound worse than it is?
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Says the one assuming and claiming with zero evidence that the cafe removed them…? When there’s a nice little sign that explains everything already?
Read the sign, and have a little critical thinking yourself. This isn’t that hard to comprehend.
The cafe is a building. Inside are bins, OP had even stated this, or is OP not a good source when it doesn’t align with your ignorance?
I’m calling you out, since this has already been figured out, and you’re just late to the party and saying “the cafe did this”.
No they didn’t, stop perpetuating that lie that is easily disproved by the sign OP posted for us….
May I ask the name of this place? I’d like to pull it up on Google Maps and have a look at the layout.
It’s not like paper and plastic wrappers are heavy or bulky. Just hold onto it or put it your pocket until you get home or find a bin elsewhere.
“we don’t want to pay human beings to do the necessary work created by our business, so we’re offloading it to you.”
fwiw removing trash cans and promoting not littering is proven to reduce litter.
It’s people that suck generally
Can you cite this source? It’s my personal experience that people will just drop things on the ground if there’s not a convenient trash can.
The only way this will work is if humans behave in ways that no human has ever humaned
There are countries where this is culturally how litter is managed. Japan is a fully developed example - bins are hard to come by, everyone brings their trash with them.
It can be done.
Unless they are in a car, take a walk along one of the less used roads and you will find empty food containers and piss bottles galore
Just putting in my 2 cents. I don’t remember seeing any trash from my 2 weeks in Japan. The country is impeccably clean.
If there is a bin I will use it, if not I will take it home.
If you don’t you are scum and deserve to be pilloried in the town square.
While it can be done you have to have a focus on the group over the individual like Japan for It to happen. The main issue faced in most of the countries where litter would be an issue are ones that are more indiviualistic. So you have to upend the entire culture of a country and move its focus off of self and onto the whole. Can it be done? Eventually. Will it be done? Not likely.
So for now, there should be bins. Lol
People who go to trails are not gaurnteed, but are more likely to care about the environment they traveled to go to. Mostly.
Gentrified forest is the most cursed phrase I heard in a minute.
I think it’s a pretty good description. Has a tarmac car park, cafe, bike hire, 3 go ape routes, wheelchair accessible routes and until recently, bins!
You should look up the definition of “gentrification.” There are a ton of options that don’t suggest that the homeless people in the forest are being forced out and replaced with wealthier homeless people.
Maybe “commercialized” would be a better word choice? Alternatively, “developed” or “sanitized?”
What does homelessness have to do with anything? Gentrification isn’t specifically about homelessness, I don’t see anyone else mentioning it before now… where did you pull that from?
Gentrification seems to mean the rapid renovation of an area to appeal to a wealthier crowd, which this could easily cover.
Generally, usage of the term “gentrification” refers to the improvement of neighborhoods - or other places where people live, like apartment complexes - and, due to increased cost of living, the displacement of the people who used to live there. Displacement of less wealthy current residents when gentrification occurs is so common that it’s implied. If it weren’t, people wouldn’t have such low opinions of gentrification.
If a forest has been gentrified, therefore, then - if you interpret “gentrified” in the same way - it follows that people who have been living there have been displaced. And since those people were living in a forest - not in a cabin in a forest - they’re necessarily homeless. Since OP didn’t say that they were building houses or apartments in the forest, that would mean that the wealthier people who displaced them were also homeless.
Since the context was another commenter calling “gentrified forest” a cursed phrase, I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that.
Poor people won’t feel at home if there isn’t trash strewn everywhere. They’d probably avoid going to that place.
You are right, I was thinking the definition more being taking it up market, fancier etc. didn’t realise the term was more for the human effect.
It’s like wilderness for Europeans!
Old people have moved there and the prices have skyrocketed.
This is the reason given in Australia by Parks Victoria
LEAVE NO TRACE
Advocate for minimal-impact practices wherever you go. Many people are surprised to find no bins in national parks. Waste attracts native animals, which can change their natural behaviour and harm both natural and cultural sites, as well as your personal belongings.
Always bring rubbish bags (and one for your neighbour) and take all your rubbish home. Help educate others about the importance of leaving the park pristine, minimising your impact on the delicate balance of the ecosystem.
Have a fence, sign, benches seems pretty antithetical to LNT.
Different country, different styles I guess.
Yeah, they threw LNT straight out the window and down the open manhole with flames shooting out of it with great delight. If you search for pics of the place, claiming “leave no trace” is beyond farcical.
I feel like you want more trash cans not less. Make it easy for people to clean up after themselves
That might sound backwards but it isn’t
Squirrels and raccoons will rummage, and disperse trash. There isnt much you can do about that beyond 1. Harm wildlife or 2. Reduce trash.
Edit: Damn, this thread is full of people I would be fucking embarrassed to camp with. Where do y’all like to experience the outdoors so I can be sure to not cross your paths?
Or 3, provide animal-proof garbage disposals.
No bears left in blighty.
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bear-proof-garbage-bins-made-in-lethbridge-1.4542351
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
We have those all over the place. Large National Parks like Yosemite are a special corner of hell because you quite literally have hordes of tourists from all over the world visiting on a daily basis. Randos who’ve rarely ever left the city see a can like that and may not know how to use it. In a place like Yosemite that rando could easily be from anywhere in the world.
Meanwhile I know of dozens of these kinds of cans located in some very small parks and camping areas here in Wyoming and no one has any problems with them at all.
Us “Americans” have those cans already and many of us know how to use them. You’ll need to find some other kind of shit to sling around.
You missed the the bit about dumbest tourists.
I get it that it is hip to hate on Americans right now, but your post is so unnecessarily self-righteous.
It’s been hip to hate on Americans for decades. It’s just more justified now. But you’re right, not because of bears.
🙄
Or just like, pollute less and stop relying on others to clean up after you.
Especially when you leave your home.
And you think that’s going to happen by removing the trashcans?
Think?
It’s well established peer reviewed scientific literature.
That paper has nothing to do with trash or cans rofl
I can attest that people around me in the south talk about how they love nature but if opening the trash can requires more than 3 brain cells they will most likely just throw their in the back of their truck and know it will blow out down the road or drop it next to the trash can and be proud they are keeping some custodial staff employed
Or
4. Continue to treat people as spoiled toddlers and hire servants to clean up after them.And when it’s full or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
Also nothing is “animal proof” it’s all resistant and reliant on humans not being asses. Which they always prove they are when it comes to garbage.
Providing garbages doesn’t make people use them…
And when it’s full
They don’t magically empty themselves, you have to hire someone to empty them.
Which is the REAL reason places are removing bins. Everything else is just lies. They are reducing labor costs. That is ALL.
or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
This is the sort of case where I’ll make an effort to pick it up and throw it away. Even better if visibly clean (not in the bushes, not wet) and something somebody may have just forgot.
If there’s no trash can anywhere, I likely won’t unless certain conditions align.
I’ll go out on a limb that Raccoons won’t rummage here :)
I agree with the sentiment but if they have a cafe selling things in disposable packaging then the best thing they can do is provide bins to deal with it. Pretending they don’t generate rubbish is just a false accounting trick.
No racoons here. The previous bins had spring loaded flaps to keep the animals out.
Or 3) change the garbage regularly on a bin with a latching lid. (common in forested areas)
This isn’t just a random bit of forest either, it’s near a shop that’s providing the public with a bunch of disposable items like paper cups and napkins. Not providing somewhere to dispose of those is inevitability going to lead to people leaving their garbage behind.
There aren’t many wild camping spots in the UK, especially in forests. Definitely no raccoons either haha. This area would be more for walking or picnicking.
Growing up in the 60s, we saw anti-littering commercials, called PSAs (Public Service Announcements),on TV every day. Ask any older American what they remember about those PSAs, and they will say “The crying Indian.”
Today, they never show those anymore, and i am seeing young people littering as a result. I was recently in a fast food lot, and saw a car pull in, a young guy about 20 get out, and throw a bunch old fast food trash into the bushes, then walk into the restaurant. He passed a trash can next to the door on his way in, where he could have tossed his trash, but he just tossed it in the bushes instead.
I collected up the trash, and set it on the hood of his fancy hot rod.
I’ve seen plenty of similar examples in the last few years, because young people dont see those PSAs telling them not to, and even their parents havent been educated to teach them.
I’ve seen mongoloids throw trash on the floor while they stood less than a foot away from the trashcan. Should’ve thrown him in the trash.
I was born in the early 90s but I saw those PSAs in school. We were taught very early that littering is not only immoral but illegal. We were pretty much scared into thinking of the environment. I like that approach. Made me respect the environment into my adulthood
I remember those commercials they ran into the early 80’s. Peter Sarstdet song in the background
Sounds to me like they just dont want to empty the bins any more. I suspect after a few months of picking rubbish off the floor, the bins will be back.
Or not and everyone will complain and stop going.
“We don’t have enough funds to make the guys do that route, what do we do? what did you say Shannon? masquerade it as taking care of the environment? that’s fantastic”
Hey ChatGPT, I’m a dork who works for a local council and we are cutting costs by removing two bins from a local forestry. Can you come up with a sign that spins the removal of these bins into a positive?
One problem with outside bins is that the wildlife is naturally drawn to them and the contents can be damaging to them as well as desensitising animals to people, plus things like squirrels and birds will pull rubbish out of the bins and spread it around.
Why not put that on the sign then instead of some vague, unrelated bollocks that doesn’t justify the removal? If that’s the case then I feel the wording on the sign is borderline dishonest.
You can have wildlife proof bins.
…huh? They want to cut down on litter by removing the convenient locations for people to dispose their would-be litter?
Fuck there are some incredibly fucking stupid people in charge of places right now…
Thats what they do in Japan and it suuuuucks so bad. By far my least favorite thing about the country. It’s so annoying to carry trash around and the few bins that exist are so tiny and always overflowing.
People praise Japan for cleanliness but let me tell you it’s not because of the lack of trash bins but because people genuinely care about spaces and more bins would just make that easier.
This is gospel truth and people downvoting this are delusional.
Wait, so there are bins inside and they don’t want bins outside because it’s a wildlife area?
Sounds like OP’s a little lazy, this is a very understandable change
But they sell disposable items, likely for profit. They can’t have a system to dispose of trash in a responsible manner?
Sounds like they have bins inside. That is responsible no?
You have the right to purchase something, doesn’t mean you have the right of convenience.
Most of these places, at least in Canada, are strictly operated as not-for-profit establishments, with focus on as little actual litter as possible. So no plastic lids or straws, no packaging. Wooden stir sticks, brown paper bags, etc. Local produce only. While these decompose easily, it’s still unsightly, so most of Parcs Canada / SEPAQ doesn’t have bins outside either.
I’d be disappointed if this were not the way that things are being done in England.
This is false. Any location at Parks Canada that sells concessions will have a gargabe bin usually 55gal drum. Also there are multiple bear proof sortable garbage bins recycling bins and propane bottle disposal.
Is only mildly annoying. Lots of people asking where the bins though.
I can see a lot of paper cups being left in tables etc
What inside? Inside at your home maybe.
deleted by creator
Pack in, Pack out.
The places with the fewest places to deposit one’s trash are always the ones with the most litter. Always.
If someone wants another person to adapt a behavior, from a purely practical standpoint, that person must make the other person’s job easier or it will simply not work to get them to adapt. If this wasn’t a forest (such as it is, it being the UK), the only proper thing to do would be to dump as much trash there as possible while demanding the bins back until they get the message and cave in. I could write a whole book here about how the packaging industry paid lobbyists and PR firms to put the blame on consumers for the useless crap they make existing in the first place, and shaming them into keeping it out of sight and thus out of mind. I won’t. But it’s a tale vile enough that it convinced me that there’s a time and a place for littering as protest. The woods aren’t the place.
Besides, there ARE receptacles that are critter resistant. This is an absolute cop out, and seeing how landscaped the area is, a couple of bins would hardly scar the landscape. This is pure crap. I looked the place up, and it’s NOT the kind of place where you deny people trash receptacles, nor is it the kind of place you can credibly base your argument on “we don’t want animals to get used to people”. Good lord, what a bunch of idiocy.
I’d give this some odds of reducing trash pollution. It can seem frustrating, but it MAY change people’s behavior in a way that reduces litter. Behavioral economics can be counterintuitive.
EDIT: What matters is the result. If this makes more people litter, they should probably bring back the bins. If this reduces litter, they should keep it this way, regardless of how inconvenient or “stupid” you the reader find it.
No. Most people just start littering when there’s no trash bins nearby.
Think of the stupidest person you know, etc etc.
Hardly an issue of stupidity. We’ve got shops a short ride away that sell you disposables with the intent of bringing them into the park. And we’ve got a park that’s removed the bins used to cart the waste back out again.
The stupidity is in the policy. Either you have to prevent people from bringing this stuff in (incredibly difficult) or you have to manage the waste that exists by centralizing its collection and export (significantly easier and cheaper).
People that litter are atupid/lazy/poorly educated.
Unfortunately, if you don’t provide bins, some people are going to litter. Does my head in.
Selling food that comes with garbage included, in a location without bins, is littering.
But that’s why you take the rubbish home with you, where there is a bin. Where’s the end user responsibility?
You used “but” as if you were going to disagree with me, but then you didn’t. It was strange.
People that litter are atupid/lazy/poorly educated.
Littering is a function of the laziness of the individual combined with the inconvenience of normal waste disposal. If you live in a neighborhood where trash pick-up is infrequent or unreliable, you’re going to find a lot more littering as a matter of simple convenience compared to one where trash pickups are regular and routine.
The public expectation of efficient trash pickup also creates social pressure on individual neighbors not to dump illegally.
They’re shit people. I take cans home to recycle because we don’t have proper recycling at my workplace.
If you operate a business that sells things in paper plates and wrappers, you certainly have a moral responsibility to have waste receptacles to collect those waste products.
The problem isn’t that a park lacks trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash bins.
The he cafe still has bins inside, they have a way to collect their refuse.
The park removed the bins since people from the cafe weee likely overfilling it.
Where does the sign say the cafe removed them…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry and speaks only for what they did. Remove the park bins.
How do you know that? You’re not OP.
You’re the one vehemently claiming the cafe removed the bins. So I throw that right back in your ignorant face.
For my side, we have a nice little sign that explains everything, if you would be arsed to read it that is…
The OP edited their 5-hour old post about 2 hours ago according to the timestamp. Your comment is only 1 hour old 🤔.
I feel the same way, but about places that sell coffee having an obligation to provide a public bathroom.
Glares angrily at 7-11
Let us sing praise for the Rhineland Palatinatian Landesverordnung zur Ausführung des Gaststättengesetzes (Gaststättenverordnung - GastVO -), in effect since 1971, which mandates one toilet each for males and females in every restaurant or pub, and more for larger establishments.
Some toilets are more public than others, 7-11
