prevent access to online services…that’s all they should be allowed to do. I don’t think I’d be able hold back on any company that decided what I do with MY hardware.
If they going to brick the console they better refund the money.
They haven’t so far.
That is what they do. It’s an online ban, you can still use a banned console offline.
Untrue, full console disabling is possible rendering it unusable for any content online or offline
They’ve only ever done online bans. There’s a lot of misinformation being spread around about bricks, but that isn’t what is happening.
What they have done (so far) and what they are capable of doing are two entirely different things.
No one has had their console remotely bricked. If it happens, we can talk, but until then you’re just getting mad at imagined hypotheticals.
Worst argument ever.
Why wait for it to happen instead of acting proactively?Why did they feel the need to implement that in A their legal speak and B partly acted on it (users of the MIG-cartridge got already hit by that).
Because they will at some point use the power. Why even risk that?
Because regardless of what some boilerplate legalese says, they are instead doing online bans. Fixating on a hypothetical when it’s the opposite of what’s actually happening borders on misinformation.
Scroll back up, this conversation started with the top comment saying it should just be online bans, I said that it is, and then y’all come at me saying it’s actually bricks. It’s online bans.
Before it happens they put it in EULA which they did.
You acknowledge that if you fail to comply with the foregoing restrictions Nintendo may render the Nintendo Account Services and/or the applicable Nintendo device permanently unusable in whole or in part.
It couldn’t be any clearer.
You’re fixating on legalese boilerplate, I’m talking about what they’re actually doing.
Go back to the start of this conversation. OP said it should just be online bans, I said that it is, and you’re umackshuallying over what hasn’t actually happened.
I found one of the many for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqFY3rICDWs at minute 7.15
He can’t play Yakuza 0 and puyo puyo tetris, because it can’t download the mandatory update, it can’t launch games. Technically it’s not bricked, but because it can’t launch legally purchased games, it’s effectively bricked.
It doesn’t even show the game icon on the screen!
That is a ban from online services. The word ‘brick’ has a specific meaning, this isn’t a brick.
You acknowledge that if you fail to comply with the foregoing restrictions Nintendo may render the Nintendo Account Services and/or the applicable Nintendo device permanently unusable in whole or in part.
It seems hard to believe, but that’s the threat being made. Time will tell whether that’s bluster or if they’re really prepared to do so.
Nintendo has track record making threats that are not technically feasible, like if a PR/LAW person has written it with no knowledge on what technically really is possible. They just formulate it, so that they have the most possibilities later on the law site.
They would even include coming to and get the physical switch from you, if lawfully feasible. And they would only check later if the physical act is really feasible for them after.The fact that they are doing online bans instead is how we know.
But like I said, tell you what, if it happens then we can talk.
That is until the console is reset, at which point you need a valid account just to boot into the launcher.
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The vast majority of games require being online at least once to run. This is enough of a loss if function to be considered unusable.
False, too many games require internet access for the first start to download the actual games
Banned console = you can only play 1st party games as almost all 3rd party devs ship empty cartridges with no game inside
Online services includes firmware updates, and many new first party games require the newest firmware as of release to be installed
Don’t they include the firmware updates on the game carts now?
You mean the game carts that only include the key to download the game?
No, I thought some game carts actually had system updates included on the cart that would install if your system was offline, for example. Looks like this is only for ps4/ps5 actually, though.
Nintendo has pulled some shady shit with this system release… While it’s possible for the manufacturer to put the games on the carts, and apparently some are… They have the ability to put just a key on the cart which allows you to download the game… But it still requires you to have the cart in your system to play it…
At least from my understanding…
Yes that is a thing. The game cart basically acts as a digital key and you have to download the game. You also have to have the game cart in the system to play the downloaded game. Thankfully the boxes that have this are clearly labeled. One benefit of this is you can resell these games which you couldn’t previously do for any digital game. Not a fan of the practice and having plastic junk for what is essentially a digital game, though. Seems these virtual game carts are selling poorly so hopefully publishers will start using actual full games on carts going forward.
That wasn’t what I was referring to in my original comment, though.
Checking, downloading and installing irmware updates is the only thing that works on a banned console. Of course they are not allowing it because they’re nice, just because they want to close eventual exploits
better consumer protection says what
It says “Sign the Stop Destroying Videogames initiative if you can”
Still would be EU only.
Americans can’t sign it, but the law would absolutely benefit American gamers.
If they have to do the legwork to leave the games in a playable state or pass it to the community, American gamers will be able to participate.
I have, and I have advocated for it everywhere.
Common European W
I secretly hope they screw up and brick all the switch 2 devices by uploading a bad update, and are forced to send replacement units, potentially crippling finances of their company.
Doubt it’ll happen, and I’d feel bad for people and kids just wanting to enjoy some Mario and stuff on their weekends (which makes me sorta hope it doesn’t happen at the same time), but… Nintendo needs to be hit very hard for their constant BS.
Or some “bad actor” will figure out a way to upload and push the bricking update. Forcing probably a recall and/or a costly class action. Maybe that will make them think about putting a kill switch on there in the first place.
In 2008, someone did the math. Just from 2 years of Wii sales, just the hardware, not the games, Nintendo could stay afloat for 163 years based on the ecconomy at the time.
So, lets adjust for inflation that we know it is today, and call it 110 years.
I don’t think it’s been 110 years since 2006. I could be wrong though. Covid screwed up everybodies internal clock.
Because in the US, you guys aren’t really consumers (which would give you a status), you’re merely walking and vaguely sentient (hopefully enough to click on “add to cart”) wallets that the corporations pluck money from at every opportunity. This is your legally enforced reality.
We are not even people anymore.
Lol, why even buy such a piece of shit then? Even when in the EU, the fact they do this is enough.
Because I have no intention of playing pirated games so I’m at no risk? Also I’m in the EU so I’d be fine regardless?
Which is fine until the piracy detection system has a false positive and you lose your Switch. Or you buy a second hand copy of a game the original owner made a copy of and continues to use and your switch gets bricked. I understand you’re in the EU, but this kind of nonsense would definitely put me off a system that’s already inordinately expensive.
To each their own. 👍 I hear your points. Surely the false positive should be refutable and able to be appealed. At least in the EU? 🙃
How does Nintendo know if someone makes a copy/dump of a physical game card?
If you’re offline only, they can’t afaik. In the case of online I’m lead to believe each individual cart is signed with a unique certificate so they can tell if that cart has been used in more than one console. If there’s two instances of the same thing online at the same time it must be pirated.
In terms of reversal - I’ll work from the premise we agree that it’s unacceptable a customer loses access to a device they purchased and own because the company doesn’t like it. But let’s say it happens, how much hassle is it going to be to undo it? The console is bricked so it’s presumably not running/able to go online? Do I need access to a PC to fix it? Do I need to send it off to Nintendo? Go to a game store?
Fwiw I like tinkering with consoles and devices - not necessarily because of piracy, I just like running weird software on them or making them do things they weren’t meant to. It’s not a common use case, but it’s valid enough. Why should Nintendo control that.
how much hassle is it going to be to undo it?
Yeah, I bet it would be a bitch, no doubt.
I like tinkering with consoles and devices. […] Why should Nintendo control that.
Agree completely. They shouldn’t.
Pirated games can be one or several of the following:
- a means of participating in a chosen culture when players can’t afford/justify the price tag (one Nintendo game now costs the same as a week’s worth of groceries for two people where I live)
- a form of archive because game publishers are notorious for killing games
- a form of backup because things happen to disks/cartridges
- a form of backup because servers go down
- a form of backup because not everyone’s internet is reliable
- a means making the game more accessible by adding features (eg. the option of infinite lives/health for someone with muscular dystrophy)
- a form of protest over ever-increasing prices at the same time as ever-increasing layoffs, and ever-decreasing quality.
More directly relevant to you: the money you give Nintendo goes to their legal teams, to continue to find loopholes around the protections you have. They’re the ones fighting the “Stop Killing Games” movement. Nintendo recently won a lawsuit against 1fichier in France for hosting emulated games. It has been marked as a “significant” win against any level of piracy in the EU. Nintendo is continually working to make sure that despite living in the EU, you won’t be fine regardless. Your purchase directly funds that.
Maybe you have no intention of playing pirated games, but I hope you can appreciate that this is larger than just some teenager feeling powerful because they stole something?
Definitely a balance between funding their legal team and just wanting to play the games they put out, indeed. Currently I just want to play. We’ll see if I take the high road later. Having too much fun with my kids at the moment though.
It’s already happened that Nintendo remotely bricked a switch 2 because its owner bought an used game, but that game was dumped by its previous owner.
You also have no intention of buying 100% genuine original, but used, games?
I have no intention of buying used games, no. Never bought a used game for the original Switch either. I always buy my shit on launch because I want it fast. 🙂
Remember, when tech bros complain that Regulations Stifle Innovation, this is the kind of “innovation” they’re talking about.
They want to innovate some more money out of your pockets.
They can have the moths over my cold dead body.
Well, their shitty attitude towards consumers is why I won’t be getting a switch 2. So they can try bricking my asshole.
I’ll do what I did with Switch games: download the emulated versions, barely play them, and seed them.
It’s gonna be a shame if H4ckerM4n2015 may brick you Switch after loosing a game of Mario Kart.
Vulnerability for me, not for thee, right?
Remember when one guy got thousands of people banned from Call of Duty through exploiting the anti-cheat?
Nah, they can, but likely won’t risk it w/European owners’ “rights.”
Change the headline a little bit.
“litigation” is not really how we usually talk about consumer’s rights in Europe though. As the article clearly states:
the legal framework in Europe is much more protective of users. The corresponding laws understand that disabling a device for unauthorized access to software is an excessive and illegal measure.
It’s the same with my American friends who does not understand that we have house loans, not mortgage. They still call it mortgage, but that’s a completely different setup altogether!
Interesting, I’ve never heard about that… What is the difference?
Edited, and quoted, because I can see European states arbitrarily litigate rights.
That’s … not how it works. If they did brick the consoles Europeans own they’d likely be breaking EU wide laws, which at the end would end up with the highest court in Europe - the EUCJ.
There’s nothing arbitrarily about this. Our consumer protection laws are quite strong.
I believe Nintendo has been rewarded enough lobbying budget by folks who keep buying their 🚮
It’s less about rights and more about “consumer protection”
i stopped buying nintendo after wii. fuck them
Yet another reason for you peasants to throw down your pitch forks and accept the all mighty PC as your lord and savior.
I have had this long-term tendency in my gaming platforms where I alternate between PC and console as my primary long-term focus. For example, I remember that 2019 was almost nothing but VR gaming on my PC, but in more recent years I’ve used game pass on xbox to play all kinds of titles that I wouldn’t have otherwise.
My family uses the Xbox pretty regularly still, but I think now that I can use my Linux PC from the couch (without taking over the TV) it has broken me from caring about consoles. Like, I recognize the skill of Nintendo’s developers and I know I’m going to play the mario & kart releases eventually, but I haven’t even considered getting a switch 2. I know a family member has one, so likely my first time playing Mario Kart World will be at thanksgiving, lol.
I am also a fan of emulation. I’d be content if you only ever allowed me to play my NES, SNES, and PSX roms for the rest of my life. But since Nintendo’s business model means putting their beautifully designed games only on restricted/limited hardware, it’s a better way to play some of their newer stuff too.
yo ho, all hands, hoist the colors high,
heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die.
The current management of nintendo will never figure it out. Piracy is the competition. It’s not about getting the thing for free, it’s about getting a better service. I’d buy mario 3 again (again) if that meant I’d get a rom I could run on my pc through FCEUX and enjoy all the features/enhancements that software offers. There’s a handful of gamecube games available on switch2, but all of them are better through Dolphin than what official hardware can offer. Nintendo’s refund policy is a joke. The eshop is unpleasant to use. Even ignoring all of that, the original switch only had a handful of actual first party titles, not enough to justify the console’s price tag (and each those were merely ok, not enough to justify buying a console for one game).
sega sells their games on steam, and while I don’t like the emulator they use I can at least say that I own a legal copy of sonic spinball.
Nintendo: “you bought our hardware, but we will brick it if you don’t use it in exactly the way we like!”
Nintendo, you are supposed to be the good guy company remember?
Sadly the good guys retired and left the company with the rats.
