More than 80 people killed in campaign that law-of-war experts have labeled extrajudicial murder
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth reportedly gave a verbal order to leave no survivors behind as Donald Trump’s administration launched the first of more than a dozen attacks on alleged drug-running boats that have killed more than 80 people over the last three months.
On September 2, U.S. military personnel fired a missile striking a vessel in the Caribbean that carried 11 people accused of trafficking drugs into the United States.
When two survivors emerged from the wreckage, a Special Operations commander overseeing the attack ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions to “kill everybody,” according to The Washington Post, citing officials with direct knowledge of the operation.
If anybody is still under the impression that someone somewhere in the chain of command might refuse illegal orders, this tells you everything you need to know
Unfortunately the US doesn’t consider that one to be an illegal order. It is heartless, and unnecessary. But ever since the advent of airpower the US has maintained that planes, helicopters, and drones are not required to accept surrender because it is impractical to impossible in any given situation. So the standard is usually to keep firing. Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom had notable exceptions with mass surrender instructions dropped beforehand. And again, I know that’s not reassuring. But this is why politics isn’t supposed to be a team game. This is the level of power we are making decisions on. For other things that are completely legal but most people don’t realize; heavy machineguns can absolutely be used to target individual soldiers; Flamethrowers are still 100 percent legal against military targets; You can be shot after your surrender is accepted, (I’ll expand below); You will be shot if you do not or cannot actively surrender; and Nobody respects the rule against shooting medics and medevacs.
To expand on the most inflammatory one, the only time you are “safe” is while you are in custody. Modern combat operations move very fast and surrendering people are often left in place after their weapons are removed/destroyed. If they don’t actively surrender again to follow on forces then they are legal targets because we haven’t developed psychic powers yet. This especially matters with surrendered wounded who may not be in a condition to surrender again. Shooting bodies as you advance is legal and expected in a war. You just aren’t allowed to personally go back and shoot someone again without them presenting a new threat. With that information in mind you should also know the US military and any professional military sends multiple waves across a battlefield. It is incredibly lethal, by design.
I say all this not to call you out but to highlight that war is a giant bag of dicks that most people outside the military are still naïve about.
The other pressing thing here is this is an order to fire on a declared enemy, outside our border. Meaning the president signed a sheet of paper declaring them to be the enemy, Congress hasn’t thrown a flag, and they are beyond the jurisdiction of law enforcement. That is very clear cut to the military. If you change any one of those 3 parameters then things go to gray zone or illegal very quickly. Someone asked me some months ago while Trump was vomiting about Greenland if the military would obey that order versus an order to hunt down and kill Americans inside America. And the answer is Greenland would be fucked but those Americans are pretty safe from the military. They are not however safe from anonymous DOJ task forces and DHS.
Thanks for the clarification, sadly
What would even be an illegal order?
Blowing up the boat in the first place.
To use force against Americans inside America without martial law, an act of Congress, or an extenuating circumstance like self defense.
Trump really pushed the envelope by ordering troops to accompany ICE raids under the authorization to guard federal property. But they still couldn’t do anything but defend themselves technically. It’s just that he effectively tied their self defense to the ICE agents defense. I’m pretty sure the courts knocked that one back and the military pulled back though. Which is why they’ve gone so hard with Border Patrol, ICE, and any volunteers from within DHS/DOJ that have badges.
To use force against Americans inside America without martial law, an act of Congress, or an extenuating circumstance like self defense.
so nothing because the idiot king can declare martial law with no justification just as he has broken rules or laws over 200 times in less than a year
That’s what these court battles in Los Angeles and Chicago have been about. I’ve been staying very top level but suffice to say he cannot just yell martial law and charge into a blue city. Laws describe when and how it is proper to do so. The court push back is important not because we think it will restrain Trump, but because the generals are not personally loyal to Trump. As a reminder, Trump wanted to shoot Americans in his first term. It was the establishment that told him no. He tried to directly order the military and a general literally yelled at him for it.
The threat is overwhelmingly from DHS and DOJ. They have the authority, ability, and will. ICE just got funded to an amount equal the British military. The only thing missing is the volunteers and the federal law enforcement training centers have pushed back training for anyone other than ICE to handle the glut of new ICE agents. ICE’s detention budget is also now far larger than the federal prison budget. They could theoretically hold about 8 percent of the US population with the budget they got.
Everyone is worried about the military while our federal law enforcement is doing military style presence patrols in Los Angeles.
I’ve been staying very top level but suffice to say he cannot just yell martial law and charge into a blue city
I want to believe you/this, but honestly laws only matter when they are enforced and so far, it looks like nobody wants to enforce them against the Orange Pedo, therefore, he is subject to no laws
The court push back is important not because we think it will restrain Trump, but because the generals are not personally loyal to Trump
What gives you this impression? I have yet to see even hesitancy from any General in following any order so far
As a reminder, Trump wanted to shoot Americans in his first term. It was the establishment that told him no. He tried to directly order the military and a general literally yelled at him for it.
Yes but this second term is something else, everybody fell in line and the idiot king has SCOTUS bought and paid for
Everyone is worried about the military while our federal law enforcement is doing military style presence patrols in Los Angeles.
Precisely
Deploying regular military inside the US is illegal.
So is running for president as a felon, yet here we are.
that’s not illegal actually. if it were, administrations could try to invent felonies for opposition leaders to have committed. now this particular felon should also have been ineligible to run under the 14th amendment, but he was never charged or tried for those crimes, let alone convicted
and they’ll do similar mental gymnastics forever…
the military won’t save you Americans
There was the one high profile commander who stepped down du to this. Wish more would follow suit since it’s technically illegal for all involved to disobey orders unless they all do so collectively.
There’s a big difference between this and shooting at unarmed American citizens who are legally exercising their 1st Amendment Rights.
What’s the difference? Nationality? Skin color?
11 people? There were 11 people on the boat? There’s no fucking way that was a drug smuggling boat. 11 people means at least nine people’s worth of weight that can’t be dedicated to drugs.
it was not proven those boats were
notcarrying drugs nor have fuel capacity to reach the US coasts. They most likely killed fisher boats:https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/evidence-vessels-venezuela-us-drug-trafficking-e51d01
it was proven those boats were not carrying drugs
Was it? Because I can’t find any reliable source corroborating that
the better description to say that it was not proven they were carrying drugs, and they were most likely fisher boats.
that’s why they said legally they were proven not guilty of carrying drugs:
this website does good job providing sources to all claims:
https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/evidence-vessels-venezuela-us-drug-trafficking-e51d01
The “I was just following orders” defense is gonna be used a loooot in the future
That’s very cute of you to think that they will face consequences.
When? You expecting an election in the future?
Looking at history, after they unsuccessfully tried to invade Russia in winter, while at the same time trying to take over Europe.
Does the Hague not investigate war crimes?
The U.S. doesn’t recognize the ICC and sanctions its officials if they investigate war crimes by the U.S. or its allies.
We briefly ratified the Rome Statute in 2000 but pulled out shortly after invading Afghanistan and shortly before invading Iraq.
Venezuela delenda est
No, the US would invade the Netherlands if they tried to investigate.
Since it’s probably not clear to those unfamiliar, this is literally true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act
Only for political opponents of west.
The us said it would invade the Hague of anyone were tried and attempted to be put on trial.
“all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members’_Protection_Act
It is literally a crime against humanity to declare no quarter be given.
Edit: US Code literally prescribes death for war crimes when that crime results in death: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title18-section2441&num=0&edition=prelim
It’s the Geneva checklist or Geneva suggestion for a reason.
I’m a world where laws mattered those words would haunt him all the way to the gallows.
Dont worry everyone. Republicans will praise the pedophile and friends through tweets. The Democrats will post a mildly worded tweet. No one will actually do anything.
Won’t be the last time he issues that command
“Sir, what should we do this Martin Luther King day?”
It’s not a warcrime if you’ve never formally declared war points finger at temple.
Our ancestors didn’t defy kings, battle their own wayward countrymen, charge trenches, and rush fortified beaches headlong into the jaws of death. . .
. . .for. This. Whatever the disgraceful hell this is.
About now, every real patriot for what’s good about this country should feel a profound and gnawing agony at every passing day these monsters aren’t held to account and rendered incapable of further harm to humanity, whatever form that would take.
We need to make it loud and clear that if “the other team” in places of power doesn’t use every single tool at their disposal to end this threat IMMEDIATELY, they are complicit fools and will be held accountable as accomplices to whatever untold horrors would await us, should we refuse to hold the line.
Yea, this bothers me. At this point I agree that any politician that doesnt start fighting this Nazi is a traitor to the US.
What’s the conversion rate on Venezuelans to Austrian Archdukes?
1 billion venezuelans per 1 Austrian archduke
Usual america terrorist moment
God you can just tell that he gets off on the feeling that he had the power to kill people. Gets him moist.
But Americans won’t take Hegseth out because that would just be so uncouth and WE WOULD BE NO BETTER THAN HIM.
Cowards.
Banning the griefer’s Minecraft account would save countless lives.
America: ill do it again!
