Windows 11 often requires new hardware. But that will be extremely pricey or have very little RAM for a while.

I dont believe that a single competent person works at Micro$oft anymore, but maybe maybe this could lead them to make a less shitty OS?

And garbage software like Adobe Creative Cloud too?

They obviously dont care about users, but the pain could become too big.

  • CMDR_Horn@lemmy.world
    184·
    5 个月前

    Not likely. I expect the AI bubble will burst before those software optimization gears even start to turn.

  • mushroommunk@lemmy.today
    103·
    5 个月前

    It’s not just garbage software. So many programs are just electron apps which is about the most inefficient way of making them. If we could start actually making programs again instead of just shipping a webpage and a browser bundled together you’d see resource usage plummet.

    In the gaming space even before the RAM shortage I’ve seen more developers begin doing optimization work again thanks to the prevalence of steam deck and such so the precedent is there and I’m hopeful other developers do start considering lower end hardware.

    • Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world
      16·
      5 个月前

      Probably a super unpopular take, but the Switch and Switch 2 have done more for game optimization than the Steam Deck has by sheer volume of consoles sold than the Steam Deck ever could. I agree the Steam Deck pushed things further but the catalyst is the Switch/2

      • XeroxCool@lemmy.world
        9·
        5 个月前

        I take it the Switch/S2 has many non-Nintendo games shared with other consoles? Hard to search through 4,000 titles on Wikipedia to find them at random, but I did see they had one Assassin’s Creed (Odyssey) at the game’s launch. I never really had Nintendo systems and just associate them with exclusive Nintendo games.

        I’m choosing to believe the Steam Machine will do more of the same for PC games. Maybe it won’t force optimization at launch, but I hope it maintains itself as a benchmark for builds and provides demand for optimization to a certain spec.

        • mushroommunk@lemmy.today
          6·
          5 个月前

          I try to follow the gaming space and I didn’t really see anyone talk about optimization until the Steam deck grew. I do wish more companies were open about their development process so we actually had some data. The switch/switch 2 very well could have pushed it, but I think with those consoles people just accept that they might not get all the full modern AAA games, they’re getting Pokemon and Mario and such. Where as the steam deck they want everything in their steam library. I dunno

          I have no real data, just what I’ve seen people discussing.

        • FoxyFerengi@startrek.website
          5·
          5 个月前

          I only own one Nintendo game on my Switch. I’m not going to sit here and pretend most of my games run great on it though. Slay the Spire and Stardew run well. But I’ve had quite a few crashes with Civilization and some hangs with Hades or Hollow Knight too

      • CountVon@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        6·
        5 个月前

        So the developers of PC games like Claire Obscure: Expedition 33, which doesn’t have a Switch version of any kinda, spent time, effort and money to optimize specifically for the Steam Deck… because of the Switch’s market share? Cmon now bud, that’s a straight up ridiculous take.

    • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
      11·
      5 个月前

      Web apps are a godsend and probably the most important innovation to help move people off of Windows.

      I would prefer improvements to web apps and electron/webview2 if I had to pick.

      • bufalo1973@piefed.socialEnglish
        14·
        5 个月前

        If those web apps were using the same shared electron backend then they could be “a godsend”. But each of those web apps uses it’s own electron backend.

        • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
          4·
          5 个月前

          The beauty of it is that it electron/webview2 will probably get improved and you don’t need to fix the apps.

          • bufalo1973@piefed.socialEnglish
            5·
            5 个月前

            I don’t disagree with that. But the problem is having one electron backend for each web app and not one backend for all web apps.

    • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca
      1·
      5 个月前

      Idk, I don’t think the issue is election apps using 100mb instead of 10mb. The kind of apps that you write as html/js are almost always inherently low demand, so even 10x-ing their resources doesn’t really cause a problem, since you’re not typically doing other things at the same time.

      The issue is the kind of apps that require huge system resources inherently (like graphically intensive games or research tools), or services that run in the background (because you’ll have a lot of them running at the same time).

      • mushroommunk@lemmy.today
        10·
        5 个月前

        You’re off by a large margin. I’ll use two well documented examples.

        Whatsapp native used about 300mb with large chats. Cpu usage stayed relatively low and constant. Yes it wasn’t great but that’s a separate issue. The new webview2 version hits over a gig and spikes the cpu more than some of my games.

        Discord starts at 1gb memory usage and exceeds 4gb during normal use. That’s straight from the developers. It’s so bad they have started rolling out an experimental update that makes the app restart itself when it hits 4gb.

        These are just two electron apps meant just for chatting mostly. That’s up to 5Gb with just those two apps. Electron and webview2 both spin up full node.js servers and multiple JavaScript heaps plus whatever gpu threads they run, and are exceedingly bad at releasing resources. That’s exactly why they are the problem. Yes the actual JavaScript bundles discord and Whatsapp use are probably relatively small, but you get full chromium browsers and all of their memory usage issues stacked on top.

        • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca
          1·
          5 个月前

          Right
          But those are only problems because they use the resources in the background. When the foreground app uses a lot of resources it’s not a problem because you only have one foreground app at a time (I know, not really, but kinda). Most apps don’t need to run in the background.

          • mushroommunk@lemmy.today
            9·
            5 个月前

            Yes, thats the problem? I’m confused what you’re not getting here. Those programs are made to constantly run. Many people need both for various reasons. Add a main program like Photoshop and then you don’t have enough RAM. People don’t load discord, check a message, close it, load Whatsapp, check it, close it, then load Photoshop.

            The RAM usage doesn’t suddenly stop because you alt+tab to a different program.

            • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca
              1·
              5 个月前

              There are, of course, bad offenders.

              I’m just skeptical that “webapps that need a ton of resources and people leave open” is the norm. But I haven’t done any research on it so maybe it is.

      • HyperfocusSurfer@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        2·
        5 个月前

        It’s okay-ish if you have one such app. It’s another story, however, if you have windows 11, where almost every GUI program depends on edge webview.

    • ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      25·
      5 个月前

      It’s crazy that people don’t see this is where computers are heading.

      The day tech bros realized they could squeeze recurring monthly subscriptions out of you for basically increasingly banal shit the writing was on the wall. The end game is that you have a chromebook with 800 subscriptions to streaming services for your os, music, movies, tv, games, image editing software, music DAWs, plugins for both the aforementioned softwares, subscriptions for hardware associated with the software (eg drawing tablets or midi keyboards), etc but covering every niche you can possibly think of and not just graphic art and music.

      And when you bitch about it tech bros and weird alphas and young zoomers who were raised on this ecosystem and indoctrinated by it will go “well you see it’s fair because updates cost money to develop” as if the old system of expecting bug fixes and security patches to be free but not necessarily feature updates was unfair. Like if I buy a car and it’s fucked up I expect it to be fixed for free but I don’t expect them to feature match the next model year.

      Tech workers are disproportionately high paid and so whiney when they have to provide even a modicum of support because then they have to potentially cut into that disproportionate high pay. Like “oh no i make 80-150,000+ a year but if i support this I’ll have to work more without generating sales and will maybe only make 60-130,000+. The horror!” fuck those libertarian shitstains that are literally overthrowing an entire government (and possibly more) with technofacism so that they can justify their “I know python, I should be able to earn as much as I want, fuck ethics, I never emotionally matured past 16” bullshit

  • ChillPC@programming.dev
    31·
    5 个月前

    You fool, humans are flexible enough to get used to slow experiences. Even if the average user needs to have discord, slack, 100 chrome tabs, word and any other electron app opened simultaneously, he will just go through his work. He may not be happy with it but still continue without changing his habits.

    But to be honest, I goddamn hope you are right!

  • mycodesucks@lemmy.world
    26·
    5 个月前

    It’s a really nice idea, but bad developers are already so deep in the sunk cost fallacy that they’ll likely just double down.

    Nobody reassesses their dogma just because the justification for it is no longer valid. That’s not how people work.

  • tomkatt@lemmy.worldEnglish
    26·
    5 个月前

    There’s plenty of “unbloated” software available. It’s just not on Windows.

      • tomkatt@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        5 个月前

        Firefox currently, though with recent AI related announcements, I’m shopping for replacements. Maybe Iceweasel or Waterfox, have to investigate.

        I keep Opera around as a back up option as well though not sure if it’s suitable as a daily driver.

  • fenrasulfr@lemmy.world
    21·
    5 个月前

    Naaaah, you are just going to have to run it in the cloud optimised by AI for the low low price of both your kidneys so Bezos, Mark and Elon can continue partying.

  • kboos1@lemmy.world
    21·
    5 个月前

    The “shortage” is temporary and artificial, so that’s a hard NO. The ram shortage doesn’t present any incentive to make apps more efficient because the hardware and software that is already in people’s homes won’t be effected by the shortage and people who currently use the software won’t be affected by the shortage. The very small percentage of people that will be affected by the temporary shortage wouldn’t justify making changes to software that is currently in development.

    There’s no incentive for software companies to make their code more efficient until people stop using their software so stop using it and it will get better. Just as an example Adobe reader is crap, just straight up garbage, but people still use it so the app stopped getting improvements many years ago. Then Adobe moved to a subscription based system, and cloud service for selling your data but guess what, it’s still the same app that it was 10 years ago, just more expensive.