He added that physical and psychological damages “inflicted on each individual of the Iranian nation in the 2nd and 3rd imposed wars, from child killings and war crimes in Minab and Lamerd to attacks on medical centres, is each a legal file that must be pursued in both domestic and international courts.”
He further stated that from the “murder” of newborns and the elderly to the assassination of his father and predecessor, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, “each is a file among thousands of major legal cases that must be earnestly pursued in domestic and international courts”.
“What is definite is that these criminals must be seized by the collar and brought to justice for their criminal deeds,” he asserted.
Never in my life could I have expected to agree with the Iranian government. But, on this specific issue? I do. There needs to be accountability for this.
The messenger is awful, but the message his correct: the US war criminals must be brought to justice.
The messenger is awful
I’ll take ten Mojtaba Khameneis over one Pete Hegseth. Hell, I’ll take a Khamenei over Keir Starmer, at this point.
Of course, he’s little more than a figurehead under the current Iranian government, given that their Parliament can’t safely convene and their military is fully operating via the Mosaic Strategy of decentralized retaliation against ongoing US/Israeli bombardment. I’m not sure why people have decided he’s a bad leader, given that he hasn’t made any meaningful leadership decisions since taking office.
But I guess he’s Muslim and unseasonably tan, so that’s enough to make him a bad guy.
I’m not sure why people have decided he’s a bad leader, given that he hasn’t made any meaningful leadership decisions since taking office.
Probably something to do with the fact that he was in a position to become the leader of such a repressive government to begin with. Maybe he will break with past policies and be a champion for women’s rights and LGBTQ+ causes, but if someone was already tipped to take over the reigns of such a government, I assume vetting processes mean he’s generally onboard with what the government was doing beforehand unless I see them taking actions that show otherwise. At this point, who knows how he’ll be, as he’s been set up with something of a PR softball in responding to an aggressive war lead by Israel and the US. Postwar, we’ll see how he shakes out domestically.
That said, I’m still hoping the Iranians just trounce their enemies in this conflict. Whether he’ll ultimately represent an improvement for the Iranian people over his predecessor or not has nothing to do with the fact that he’s on the right side of the current conflict and crushing it at the moment.
I think it’s a trap to think of countries which haven’t been allowed to thrive by basically the entire west as failing on values that they virtually never think about. Is it really that surprising that sanctions lead to regression or stagnation on civil rights of minority groups? They have been under sanctions since 1979. In 1979 how did our LGBTQ+ representation look?
I’ll be the first to accept that Iran, just like Cuba and any other country under long term sanctions from the US for refusing to kowtow to US demands, is essentially crippled from the start and unable to function as well as they could have without that ongoing interference. However, that doesn’t negate things that they’ve done on their own, like harsh repression of protests or that lady who was sentenced to being whipped for singing a song without wearing a hijab the other day.
I’m basically saying that my view of him is like my view of whoever wound up being Putin’s handpicked successor would be. I find them suspect by virtue of passing the screening process to even wind up in that position to begin with, and that will only change if they start taking actions that are at odds with their predecessors’ once in power. If his other positions turn out to be even half as good as his stance against Israel and the US in the current war on Iran has been, I will be happy to realize that my suspicions were unfounded. At the same time, just because they’re in the right on this specific topic doesn’t mean they are flawless in other aspects. Like, the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church was surprisingly progressive for civil rights for African Americans for a white guy in Kansas in the 1960s, but you won’t catch me singing Fred Phelps’ praises in light of all the other heinous stuff he’s done in his life.
How do sanctions prevent civil rights? That’s kind of a nonsense connection, do you have any actual direct evidence of such a connection and I’m pretty sure it’s in this case pretty much totally related to the regressive theocratic regime. Sanctions aren’t forcing this regressive theocratic discrimination, the regressive theocratic culture is. Admittedly sanctions created conditions for them to take power but they were already there already discriminating to the best of their power.
I’ll take a Khamenei over Keir Starmer
I’d take a khamenei ruling under current day British law over keir starmer ruling under the current day judicial system of the Islamic Republic of Iran though. Be careful what you wish for.
keir starmer ruling under the current day judicial system of the Islamic Republic of Iran
The state of Reform UK and it’s enormous polling advantage suggest we might get exactly that
Its simple He’s a muslim… Thats what makes him bad. 👍
Well, he’s the wrong kind of Muslim. If he was a Saudi or a Jordanian or one of Israel’s pet Muslims in Ra’am, all these critiques would vanish.
The Iranian regime are misogynistic, homophobic warmongers.
A female singer was recently whipped for openly singing without a hair covering.
The urban Iranians have been calling for these leeches to fuck off for years and are murdered en-masse for standing up to them as a result and their dead cold bodies hung from street lights as a warning to everyone else. We have seen huge mass demonstrations constantly attacked by the regime’s thugs on motorbikes.
Israel and the US were wrong to attack Iran back in March, and were wrong to have murdered anyone. They are equally violent, warmongering murderous regimes probably more so.
But let’s not infantilise the Iranian islamic regime and system, it’s a system where a violent, corrupt theocracy that refuses to listen to its own people.
The Iranian regime are misogynistic, homophobic warmongers.
The American media paints them as such to whip up domestic hate and justify mass murder.
It’s so much easier to show a flattened building or bloody backpack if you can tell yourself “these are savage animals, not people, and they got what they deserved”
A female singer was recently whipped
A story about an appeals case centering on a 2024 indecency conviction was resurrected by the US media to justify the ongoing war.
The singer wasn’t “recently whipped”. She was recently in court contesting the charges.
But let’s not infantilise the Iranian islamic regime and system
What do you think “infantilise” means and why does it justify sponsoring terrorism inside the country?
Are you equivocating for a regime that can’t be removed from power whipping women for singing without wearing a hair covering there.
You’re right she wasn’t whipped she was found guilty and will be whipped.
it’s a barbaric regime and the Iranian people are sick of the tollahs wasting their nations wealth on funding wars in other countries while cost of living consumes them, if they protest they get murdered by the state.
The clerics have been filling their own pockets with the country’s wealth since 1979, they are as crooked as trump and year after year the Iranian people bravely go out on the streets to protest them and are gunned down.
Islamism is a terrible political solution that can only be kept in power by force and repression.
Fuck the Iranian regime.
a regime that can’t be removed from power whipping women
Do you know how the IRGC got into power to begin with? And does the existence of Regime Change make corporal punishment acceptable, somehow?
it’s a barbaric regime and the Iranian people are sick of the tollahs wasting their nations wealth
How quickly we’ve moved from the inhumanity of prisoner abuse (in Muslim countries) to the inhumanity of Iranians spending their oil money wrong.
Crazy how it all comes back to money with you sick fucks.
Trump rapes children, stop it, there is no comparison we’re the bad guys here.
I don’t actually believe this is true but I’m willing to reconsider if there’s actual proof. If he’s actually a pedophile I’d advocate for his killing as I do for everyone who hurts kids.
Whoever’s idea it was to use fucking Grok for targeting with no human intervention. And the “haven’t washed my hands in a decade” douchebag, Pete Kegsbreath.
And not only for their crimes in Iran but all over the middle east and Latin America , the savagery and barbarism of the Epstein coalition must be punished.
And Southeast Asia. And East Asia…
What did the messenger do to you?
I agree, but you should also pay for killing women for not wearing hijab.
butandThe Conjunction Constable strikes again
People hate whataboutism until it’s used to cast shade on the enemies of America’s oligarchs.
I don’t get how people can hate billionaires, then spout rhetoric that directly helps their genocidal programs. Iran is the lesser evil in this fight, and in fact one of the only countries standing up to the world’s biggest threat- American/western imperialism. You don’t have to like them, but you also don’t have to carry water for the oppressors.
You’re allowed to not like both of them
If every time Iran calls out the warcrimes and genocide of the US, you answer with a criticism of Iran, all you are doing is saying that the US is right to do warcrimes. That it’s justified because Iran mistreats some of its citizens.
Iran is literally fighting to stop its schoolgirls from being bombed, and you’re out here saying, “Maybe if you hadn’t forced the little girls to wear burkas they’d still be alive.”
Again, you don’t have to like them, but maybe just shut up about it for a second so we can all focus on the bigger issue. It’s called critical support.
They both suck but you’re right that Iran is more right about this than the US. It doesn’t make them good though.
Again, you don’t have to like them, but maybe just shut up about it for a second so we can all focus on the bigger issue. It’s called critical support.
The comment said he agreed with the post.
It’s definitely not how it read, and it’s not its intention.
If it was not his intention, why would he start with I agree? He could have only kept the whataboutsim part. Can you consider he may be against both, or is that too far fetched for your intention guessing ability?
I’m not racist but…
Same energy.
No, the same energy would be:
~ I agree with these antiracist actions, but I would rather not have it come from someone who committed racist crimes.
This doesn’t have to be an either/or situation.
First time on Lemmy? Lemmings unfortunately don’t understand that concept.
I do
We should form a club for those capable of rational thinking!
… On Lemmy? I think we are looping back here.
Generalised statements might work on reddit but to claim Lemmy users are the same is, as of now, a fools game
Unfortunately it’s still humans behind the keyboards. The “my camp, not their camp” mentality is too deeply seeded in our primate brains. This is demonstrated by the most highly upvoted comment in this comment section.
I have to say though, it seems like they stop trying to win with logic and therefore concede the discussion. On reddit I would have expected months maybe years of incoming vitriol when commenting against the grain in an obviously biased group’s post
So at least there is that, hooray
I’m against that too, but not wearing hijab is not a capital offense in Iran.
The famous case of Masa Amini was a case of resisting arrest gone wrong and she died from police brutality. Saying she was killed for not wearing hijab is like saying Eric Garner was killed for not paying taxes; it’s an incomplete story.
The western leaders should be tried for crimes against humanity at the Hague. Don’t you think indiscriminate bombing, genocide, and child sex trafficking are a bigger problem?
Indeed. But you can’t demonise the other side for doing them while you paddle in the same pool
There is a difrence between having a bad or wrong enforced law vs destroying a random school.
It wasn’t random. It was a double-tap strike in a first strike package (generally the most well researched targets) that fucking Google maps knew was a girls school for years.
It was either a deliberate terror strike that intentionally killed a hundred and seventy or so girls between the ages of 9-12 or it was a level of incompetence that is indistinguishable from intentionality and should be treated as such.
Don’t justify this action even the slightest by trying to go ‘Whoops, teehee, just an accident’
You’re right!
From what I had heard of it, it was likely an AI produced target list with a human in the loop. But the problem with those is that a human in the loop often turns into a rubber stamp, with the human taking the blame for the AI’s mistakes.
So in that sense, you may be right. That is a problem that is pretty widely understood. They should have known that and taken more care. Trump and his “Department of War” has brought an even more cavalier attitude toward civilian casualties, so that may be seen as acceptable for “efficiency”.
Wonder what they have to say about the 100 other schools Israel and America bombed in the meantime…
What? There’s no both sides to this lol. One side is being attacked and one side is defending.
Don’t you think indiscriminate bombing, genocide, and child sex trafficking are a bigger problem?
Literally replying to your words
Are you implying that Iran is doing a genocide!? Get the UN on the phone they’re gonna wanna hear this breaking news!
As for indiscriminate bombing, absolutely not, lmao every action they’ve done in this war has been targeted.
As for child sex trafficking, THEY ARE FIGHTING THE EPSTEIN GOVERNMENT.
Honest question at this point: do you think Iran as a nation never existed before the us and israel decided to invade them?
Saying the US threw themselves into a war to distract from the epstein files, or that the current administration (ok lets be honest,the nation state for a long fuckin’ time) commits crimes against humanity is one thing. Claiming that only the US has ever commited humans rights violations is just…wat
Call the US shitbags for what they do. But don’t pretend Iran is a lily white innocent dove here. Especially when it comes to trafficking and sexual abuse
Where have I even implied any of that. Google critical support.
Two things can be true. No need to “whatabout” these topics
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The comment I’m responding to is literally a whataboutism, lol. This thread is about the US being awful.
“also” is not used for whataboutism. The comment you responded to pointed out the hypocrisy in Iran’s position here while agreeing with the general point made. You, however, singled out one side, deflecting from crimes against humanity by the Iranian mullahs by considering the other side “the bigger evil”.
I don’t even dispute that point. The problem is, the person you responded to never made a point of playing down Magastan / Israel war crimes. You don’t have a case here.
Also is used for whataboutism. Your entire premise is flawed.
I disagree wholeheartedly.
Maybe there’s more than one problem, and none of the governments involved in this are the good guys.
Yes, America and Israel are responsible for the current clusterfuck, but Iran’s government is still pretty fucking evil.
Right, and America and Israel are literally more evil. Which governments do you have the most power to change? Do you get a vote in Iran?
This absolves the USA of responsibility for waging illegal imperial war for profit and committing war crimes and funding and arming zionist genocide in Palestine.
I agree the whataboutism is lame as fuck, but idk about “absolves the USA of responsibility”. The US didn’t really even pretend this was about “bringing democracy” or whatever. The Trump admin waffled between “Israel made us do it :(” and “WOOWW LOOK AT ALL THIS OIL”
The US-Israeli propaganda machine is totally broken since Gaza. They knew there was no point in even trying to play a humanitarian angle.
Yup. Not a bad message, but a terrible messenger. His father is responsible for the massacre of thousands of protestors, and he was by all accounts part of that.
We literally admitted to arming those protesters. At that point, they’re not protesters but CIA lapdogs trying to turn Iran into another Libya.
So we should prosecute trump for his father’s crimes too? Hmm…
I never said anything of the sort. But if you want a closer analogy, we should judge Donald Trump, Jr. for his father’s crimes. He has vocally supported his father and often been involved.
Then why bring up his father’s crimes at all? What could possibly be the point besides blaming the son for the sins of the father?
Fair. But let’s not forget all of their own people they killed. Trump, Netanyahu and Khamenei should all share a cell in The Hague.
let’s not forget all of their own people they killed
It was crazy to hear US news reporting “Iran has killed 30k, 50k, 90k of their own people!!” based on unnamed sources and Facebook memes. Meanwhile, the journalists on the ground in Gaza reporting on the genocide were systematically assassinated by the Israeli government, while hospitals were obliterated, and communications severed. And the US national media response became “information is unreliable so we’re just not going to say a number anymore”.
I wonder how many Iranians killed during the current US/Israel air raids and infrastructure annihilation will be retroactively counted as “The Iranians killed themselves”, once American journalists finally make their way back into the country.
The Americans think that their propaganda still works. fuck that disgusting rogue empire.
It’s definitely losing it’s grip. But genuinely frightening to see how many people will still fall back on “Yeah, but I’m glad they’re killing the correct kind of foreigners this time”. As soon as Democrats retake the White House, your head is going to spin to see how many people enthusiastically support more bombings.
Death to America!
You don’t need to wonder how many Iranians died during the war, because Iran keeps very good track of these. However, they try their best to hide how many were killed of their own citizens during January, and there there will probably never be an accurate figure for that, only estimates.
Iran keeps very good track of these. However, they try their best to hide how many were killed
Where did you get this information?
Like in the Lahaina Fire on Maui, right. They counted the people they can identify in the death toll. But the homeless are left out of the official count of the dead. That town was full of homeless camps in the bushes. The real number of dead could be 10x the official number.
The vote ratio on your comment is alarming and tells a lot about the Lemmy user base.
I’ll never understand how people can call themselves leftists and then simp for the likes of Khamenei.
I bet there’s tons of stuff you struggle to understand on a daily basis.
Indeed there are. Maybe that’s because I don’t see the world through the lens of an ideology, that’s entirely detached from reality.
Do you understand the idea of critical support? Do you understand that America is the global hegemon and their actions in Iran are war crimes? Leftists don’t support Iran because of their structure of government, its because America is the bad guy, and has been since the end of WWII.
Do you also “critically support” Jeffrey Dahmer because he murdered Americans?
Do you equate Jeffrey Dahmer, a single man with mental illness, to a nation state defending itself from the largest military to ever exist, which is run by genocidal pedophiles?
Are you 12?
Oh yeah, there’s not a lot of valuable discussion to be had here. It’s mostly state actors and college kids that just read about the subject for the first time and think they’re experts. And fuckin half the comments at least are clearly written by an LLM. If reddit didn’t ban you for calling nazis nazis I’d still be there. Redditors on average seem much more educated than lemmings in my experience, you always see the most dogshit takes upvoted here.
I am not too sure about this. I doubt half of the comments is written by LLMs. I just think Lemmy is much more left-leaning than reddit was. Israel was always polarizing in the left, since Oct 7 this has become much worse. I really miss a critical view on the conflicts here. I feel people need to divide every topic into 2 contrary views, it is always black or white. The enemy of my enemy is my friend - so they rather sympathize with Iran than with Israel or the west™ in general. I don’t think this has to do with education, and I highly doubt the average education of redditors is very high. Reddit is mainstream nowadays, the user base is basically old Facebook minus the boomers.
Honestly, I would prefer Lemmy every day over reddit, because I believe in a free user controlled space without big corp. However I instance blocked lemmy.ml and always think twice before engaging in a political discussion. But sometimes, like in this case, people are so blind and stupid that I can’t shut my mouth.
Unrelated to topic, but i only see total up/downvotes. How do i get ratio? Switch viewer or change setting?
I guess it depends on the viewer/app you are using to access the Threadiverse. I use the Voyager mobile app on Android, but the setting should be available on iOS and the web viewer too.
Appearance > Other > Display Votes > Separate
Thanks, i’m using Voyager on Android too and thoroughly checked general settings but appearantly didn’t even think to look at appearance settings, oops.
I agree the settings categories are a bit confusing
We don’t want them in Europe, build a cell somewhere else!
I’ll put the cell in my house if it gets it done.
I’m sure the forever loop of “what’s new pussycat” will be a winner
Make sure you get a few “it’s not unusual”s in there to give them hope
I rather have them here to be honest, or somewhere with equally little corruption and equally little political instability. They sure can raise my taxes if that keeps these 3 jailed.
I want everyone in jail, I want it everywhere, I want it now.
Before blaming the current Iranian government of killing its own people, one should remember it was the US made it possible for them to come to power. By fomenting unrest against a democratically elected government which was as western as possible.
We shouldn’tve meddled, but I can still blame theocratic authoritarians for being theocratic authoritarians who abuse and murder protesters
Protestors or mossad supported terrorists trying to overthrow the government?
They fomented unrest against a democratically elected government in the past, but surely not this time?!
They just straight up admitted it.
“We are with you. Not only from a distance and verbally. We are with you in the field.”
Don’t forget the Brits!
How can one forget them, from the 1st World War to all the conflicts in Africa and Middle East you can find their hands in everything. Present Palestinian conflict is a gift that gives on giving.
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If only faults of past administrations, stay with them and not turn into the problems of today. The current administration are perpetuating and increasing their missteps.
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Stop supporting the apartheid government of Israel.
It is a fault of past and current administration of supporting Israel blindly.
I hate everyone in this.
A clock with dead batteries is still right twice a day.
Fuck all the goverments who oppress their citizens or the whole world so that a few can cling to power. In US it is the billionaires in Russia or Iran it is the supreme leaders in Israel it is the members of a society. US/Israel/Russia can afford to be a world-wide menace because they have the power to back that up. Believe me the religious supreme leaders of Iran would be doing similar shit had they the same power and leverage as US. They would be quite happy to use religion as an excuse to wage a holy war. They all deserve to rot in the same cesspit and they are not your friends.
The difference is that one of those countries is actually supporting a genocide and actively bombing civilians. We don’t need to hear about your what ifs, because America is actively murdering innocent civilians in Iran, and supplying the weapons for a genocide in Gaza and now Lebanon.
He is still right, here. There has to be consequences for Israel and USA, whichever form that may take. Iran didn’t start any of these fucking wars. Their leadership is evil, period, doesn’t mean that they are wrong in point.
100% right, ceasefire without consequences for the opressor is just a delay until the next oppression. Though this doesn’t absolve Iran of its own oppressions that goes without consequences, albeit being of the local scale.
Afaik neither Iran, not Israel, nor the US recognize the ICC nor the ICJ. Their leaders should stop bitching about who committed what war crime and just go to jail already.
Every single UN Member State is subject to the ICJ. The ICC is another story though.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Iran joined the ICC? They won’t otherwise they’d pretty quickly have to answer for all the executions they are perpetrating, but still, it would be funny.
True.
Iran, the state, can fuck off 🤣. Simps will forget these are horrific scum bags.
And still the united states came out looking worse than them by killing children and civilians; America can fuck off even farther.
Iran killed civilian protestors, but yes it seems the US killed civilian children. I think both regimes are bad.
The US government also is putting people in concentration camps, killing protesters on camera, promoting nazism, attacking the sovereignty of neighboring countries; intervening the elections of my country and openly attacking science. So i see Iran as a necessary evil; a counterweight, the promise of eventual american weakening in a west that is slowly dominated by yankee nazi ideology.
I don’t like the current government of the US, but I also don’t like the current government of Iran. I wouldn’t see either government as a “necessary evil” - I would rather see both countries have more humane governments.
Also I wouldn’t see the “weakening” of the US or Iran as a goal. I think they just need more humane leadership, who can wield power in a moral manner.
I am not holding my breath for an awakening for a more humane US policy and at the moment. For all the savagery the US has demonstrated in these last few years, I believe that the best solution, especially for us in the global south will be to decouple from US economics and be vigilant for violent repression. Even the American center has engineered violence where i live; 10 years back during the Obama admin, Biden was openly working with the far right of my country in operations that ended in violent killings. The democrats just seem like soft spoken fascists to me, so I am happy that The United states are finding resistance in their illegal war in Iran where civilians are being targeted. I also think that the corruption that has been plaguing the American government is a unique opportunity to take away their control from the global economy. Which is very important to defang the empire. Hopefully The US and It’s attack dog Israel will lose their military en economic superiority in a multipolar world and think twice before attempting more genocide or abuses.
Sure it looks unlikely that the US will become more humane soon. The best hope is that a more humane leader wins the US presidency in 2028.
As for a multipolar world, I don’t think it would necessarily be better. China is the most powerful nation after the US, and I don’t think China is a bastion of humane government, given their political repressions, such as their treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Then there’s Russia and their invasion of Ukraine.
Hopefully the world will become more humane but I guess that terrible things like wars and genocides may continue.
I don’t see anyone here “simping”. It’s almost like that’s a strawman.
I see more Iranians simping for USA and Israel these days than I do “westerners” simping for Iran (at all, ever).
The regime that slaughters and oppresses its own people so heavily is going to have a tough time here, even though the US is guilty of what they accuse.
As an American, I agree, the government needs to be held accountable
Just because the other guy does it at home doesn’t mean its okay to do it to his people too. Its not an invitation.
Yeah they probably shouldn’t have been threatening to nuke the US if they didn’t want that treatment. Because crimes or no, Trump will 100% do it again. And if necessary, again. Two more years.
It’s true, but Iran leadership has been commiting crimes against humanity themselves as well.
It’s crazy though that I instantly agreed with the sentiment when I read it…
Agreed. Someone(s) should be made to answer for all that murder. Laws and common decency need to matter again.
Ok but good luck in US courts.
The US was very happy to use the ICJ for their cases against Iran in the 80s
What does that have to do with anything I said?
Because Iran isn’t going to challenge them in the US courts but the ICJ/ICC (if at all)
Iran doesn’t recognize ICJ/ICC. Best they can do there is convince countries that do recognize them to start a case. But since neither Israel nor the US recognizes them, even if they win a case it will be hard to get them to justice. Most successful cases were succesful because the perpetrator lost their political power. So as long as Iran, US and Israel support their leader it’s very unlikely they will be jailed by because of an international court. Unfortunately.
I don’t think they’re independent
The Hague isn’t subject to US Courts’ oversight. Basically, the ICC puts out warrants for tRmp, Kegseth, and the ilk. Wouldn’t expect the US to extradite. But, they’re arrested if they ever step foot in an ICC jurisdiction.
*should be arrested
Like Bibi.
