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I like a game world that’s just fun to be in even when I’m not advancing the story. Taking a break to explore is awesome, and much easier in an open world.
Spider-Man for the PS4 had fast travel via subway, by why would you miss out on web-slinging your way from one end of Manhattan to the other?
This is what witcher 3 did best imo.
It’s open world, and it feels large… But it’s not actually that large when you think about it.
And the side areas are so rich and dense that you can do quests from a random hub, some that chain on for quite a while… And then realise this whole time that you haven’t actually done any of the main story.
I was excited to learn more about certain monsters in the bestiary, what oils and elements they were weak to etc.
I’m not sure that it’s *better*, but it’s hilarious when you go off and do all the side quests and end up completely over powered by the time you get round to the main quest and just beat the shit out of the main bad guy without realizing that they’re important.
Big bad: “so you have finally come to meet your doo-”
Competitionist: *drops bag of loot on boss, crushing all his bones*
That’s why you scale the enemies to the players armour and level!
Honestly I really don’t like that in most open world games, mostly cause enemy levels tend to make it feel like I’m just as powerful at lvl 1 as at lvl 40. Bethesda games post Morrowind are particularly bad about this IMO, not to say you can’t have leveled shit just don’t do it to all the enemies, do it like NV where some enemies are leveled but most are flat preset levels.
Sorry, was being sarcastic.
It sucks when you get an item and do 10,000 damage, but now your enemies all have 50,000 HP, especially when it’s the same old enemies just stronger.
At least in Skyrim you start seeing new enemies later on, but sometimes it’s just fun to wreck some bandits as the Dragonborn.
Yes! It helps if it is clear the bad guy has been doing things as well. (Aren’t there a few games where the bad guy moves locations with this, so if one is really fast, they can catch them rather weak.)
Yes. Many. Stop playing Ubisoft checklist simulators.
AAA needs a bit of a reset and it looks like that’s what’s happening now.
RDR2, GTA, Elder Scrolls, is this a shitpost?
Breath of the Wild.
Arguably Outer Wilds.
BotW is one of the most boring games ever. Zelda games were fun because of the linearity thanks to finding items that let you progress… And FUCK weapon degradation. What a terrible mechanic.
Oh look, another Korok Seed. How meaningful and rewarding and not complete bullshit or anything.
I think this is a difference between us as players. I’m not a competitionist at all, and I don’t even remember what economy the Korok seeds were for. I probably finished the game with a ton of them collected and unspent.
But in my mind they weren’t meant to be collected as a goal on their own. I’d be exploring up a mountain or whatever, just because I wanted to know what was on the other side, and when I got up to the peak I’d look out over the landscape and enjoy it for what it is. And then while I was up there I’d see a weird rock and go “ah, the developers wanted me to be up here looking at this view” and I’d move the rock, get some little fireworks, and then I’d have a buddy to enjoy the scenery with.
And then hours later, maybe months in real time, I’d be climbing around and see a Korok and go “Oh! I must have been up here before! Hey little guy” and then keep going.
So I liked them because it was something put there by the devs to show that they intended this place to be visited; that they put some attention here, and I had come to a place that wasn’t just endless grass or empty procedural trees or something. It was full of stuff, even if it was silly little guys.
Oh, and you can drop rocks on their heads and they go “oof”. That’s a good one.
Definitely a difference, because I am a completionist. Especially when it comes to Zelda games.
just because I wanted to know what was on the other side
The problem is that the answer is “nothing”. There’s nothing on the other side. Just more scenery, maybe a shrine or another Korok. The core gameplay loop is still just Zelda, so there’s nothing they can do to populate the world with meaningful things to find.
Right, I get that. But I wouldn’t consider the scenery nothing! I liked the scenery!
Yeah, I think that’s why open world games are so divisive. Some people want the game to reward them for doing the things they’re supposed to do, while some people just view playing the game itself as the reward, and just do what they want within it. The prior hates how difficult it is to find and get to the next objective in an open world, while the latter doesn’t need or sometimes even want objectives, preferring to just be in the world.
The old Zelda games were also open world.
Not really. The 2D ones at least. You literally can’t access areas until you’ve progressed by finding an item, usually by killing a boss in a dungeon. Its a fairly linear design actually.
There is some non-linearity in the 2D games. In the first game, you can do some of the dungeons out of order. For example, some people like to save dungeon 6 for last because it’s difficult. Some dungeons do require items from previous dungeons, but not every one.
A Link to The Past also has some nonlinearity in the same way. The dungeons in the dark world are numbered, but you can still do some of them out of order for the same reason as the first game.
Hmmm… I see what you to mean… but it’s in my top 5 games of all time, and none of the other Zelda games are. So I think it just shimmied into a different genre, which I get could be a problem for an existing fanbase that liked the old genre.
You’re spot on!
Breath of the Wild has to be the single worst example of an open world game. I am still mad it did not even have any cool dungeons whatsoever.
Breath of the wild. No dungeons.
GG on your base health/stamina finish I guess
They said cool dungeons, which I understand, BotW shrines all have the same visual style, same enemy types, they can be boring.
I loved BotW as it was… but to be honest if they offered more dungeons without changing the exploring part, I would have taken that on top, for sure.
I did hate Tears of the Kingdom, though, so I guess it’s a delicate balance that just happened to land in my hitbox on BotW.
…this is greentext so…yes, obviously
The problem is not “open world” but “the ubisoft game”. New region, find watchtower, reveal map, do 1 quest, attack enemy camp, liberate area, new area, find watchtower, …
Most open worlds are also just way to big. GTA San Andreas felt huge but is tiny compared to V. And it was better for it. Modern open worlds never have a hub. A place that you actually build a relationship with and see change over the course of the game. Its always: area completed, next!
Yeah San Andreas was the open world game I was thinking of too, with the expanding of your crime syndicate. It’s pretty much the only game I’ve played that implements an open world properly and I’ve been chasing that since then. Fallout 4 maybe, but building settlements or forts didn’t have real impact. Diablo IV is way too driven to rush through and get to the endgame.
I think you really need to design it to be more of a simulation game that reacts to player actions and with a story inserted, not as a “feature” to check off. And a distinct goal or win condition for playing the open world.
If every place/area only serves one purpose then the game should be linear. Some of my favourite games are the old Gothic and Gothic 2 RPGs. They are open world, but tiny compared to modern RPGs. They dont have “areas” with a set difficulty that you can complete and then move on, instead the map is like a skeleton of fairly save roads and settlements and the further you go away from the roads the harder it gets. So you see the whole map in the first chapter but have explored very little of it. You always return to the same areas and they feel like home. And every chapter of the story adds new enemies, quests and events to all areas of the game. All of it is hand picked. No “radient quests” to trick you into going to an completed dungeon again, no random encounters on the roads to make travel through the world feel less empty…
IMO, they have the best open worlds I have ever seen. The studios follow up open world games (Gothic 3, elex 1&2) fell flat because they tried to be huge as well and felt empty as a result.
Working with constraints does actually produce gems. Fallout, farcry, GTA, skyrim just throw billions of dollars at a project to make it huge. But everything there is is just a set piece to be looked at once and be discarded …
Gothic does sound awesome especially with the Gothic 1 Remake.
I love a good hub, especially when it actually changes and grows
When progression is properly controlled such as in fallout: new vegas or hollow knight, then a larger map can do wonders
I wouldn’t put Metroidvanias (with large maps, back tracking, ability gating and flexibility in which area to go to next) alongside other open world adventure games (like GTA, Witcher, Breath of the Wild, etc). I love Metroidvanias and linear games, but I wouldn’t touch open world adventure RPGs with a 10 foot pole.
That’s what I’m saying. The only open world games that truly utilise their worlds are ones that first close it off
Open world =/= giant map
Take resident evil games, Control, Batman. Some larger maps than others, but the key is open. Most of the map or level is available to you to explore how you like, with a linear story guiding you through as well, and then progression opens smaller locked areas and new levels.
Had to explain this to a friend when I called the original Deus Ex titles “open world” games. (It’s technically semi-open world but, meh, nuances)
It’s 100% Open World I’d argue. It was just ahead of it’s time
Cyberpunk 2077.
I like the linear missions, but just exploring the open world and discovering things naturally is fun too. I think they could have done more with that, and it definitely feels like the game was way more linear in early development, but with all the updates CDPR managed to make something pretty cool IMO.
Being able to fuck around can be fun. A linear Elder Scrolls (morrowind, oblivion, skyrim) would be boring
GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 (yes), New Vegas. Elden Ring. Subnautica.
Try making San Andreas linear and you would instantly destroy one of the best games ever made.
On the other hand later GTAs didn’t embrace the open worlds for which the series is known. Once you start a mission the games turn extremely linear without giving the player options.
Very true! I remember in GTA3, some missions could be done in different ways, if you already knew what would happen.
OTOH, just drifting along the map and running into a total stranger who feels perfectly safe in trusting you to escort his daughter or something is kinda meh.
I like open-world, but procedural anything, not so much.
The benefit is the experience. The difference in experiences comes down to the level design. Are you in a maze or in a field?
The best game designs masks this in both scenarios.
The well designed linear game doesn’t always feel like a maze, and has sections that feel like fields between mazes.
The well designed open world game contains mazes that you discover in a field that feels roped off into clearly defined sections that differ from each other and contain large landmarks to orient and draw you in.
Both feel bad if they don’t include (at least the illusion of) the other. A linear game is boring without any choice. An open world game is boring without linear moments.
Outer wilds is the only true open world game since you are exploring a whole (kind of miniature) solar system and you can just fly in one direction forever (kind of). And it’s open worldness is integral part of the gameplay. There is literally no story arch (except the ending), you are just exploring.
I think Elden Ring is excellent for being open world. People often criticize the open world aspect because the crafting system is kinda dumb, the caves are samey and don’t offer much in terms of benefits or exciting stuff. It’s also hard to find quests and easy to miss them (on top of the bullshit story telling of Souls). And experienced people often just basically do a boss rush where they run from boss to boss. But I actually think it’s excellent and brilliant game design.
I absolutely loved the feeling of having an entire world to explore. The world did actually feel alive for me, with people and stuff everywhere. Different biomes and decent enemy variety (even though there are plenty of repeats). Looking for quests, exploring caves and doing it all felt like fun. Even though I didn’t engage with the crafting much (I did do a bow and consumables challenge run once, but I stuck to just a few kinds of pots and arrows throughout). I felt for me personally it added to the experience.
But in terms of game design it’s a huge step forward. With the older games if you got hard stuck on a boss, that was it. You could go grind the previous level if you were really desperate, but that was about it. Especially for new people, this often meant they didn’t finish the game. A lot of them didn’t even make it past the tutorial boss. With a community telling them to Git Gud, people would assume the games weren’t for them and quit. Which is a shame, because the games are good and worth playing imho. With the open world aspect, there’s no rush to beat a boss. You can go explore, level up, find better weapons and better armor. And with the way the world is laid out, you can go pretty far without ever beating a single boss. Then come back later and beat the boss, maybe a bit over leveled, but that’s fine. If you want the challenge, it’s there, but if you are just a casual gamer looking for a fun time, it’s there as well.
It’s not all upsides tho, as people can also easily get lost and feel like they don’t know where to go. Or miss entire areas because they were following the main quest. So not all rainbow and sunshine, but overall a positive aspect.
The open world also makes for an excellent randomizer, I’ve been absolutely addicted to Elden Ring Rando. So much fun!
My only issue with Elden Rings world is a lot of it is just Hyrule Field from Ocarina of Time. That is to say, bland empty areas with little bits at the edges.
I found that the rewards were almost always meaningful. Even if it wasn’t a weapon or a spell I could use, it was always something unique that I totally could build around.
Elden Ring’s open world was so good that it retroactively made BotW look like shit to me.
Yeah agreed. Even if it wasn’t anything useful, it would be interesting and something to inspire future builds.
Agreed on BotW, although I didn’t like it to start with. It being open world felt actually like a step down, as I liked the exploration in the earlier games where you’d be locked out somewhere and had to find an item to get further. It made me wonder what there was to find and I was excited whenever I got the item so I could go find out. With the world in BotW just being open and mostly empty on top of that, it just felt boring. And I didn’t like the shrines, I felt they were too easy, too short and too gimmicky. The only fun I had with them was trying to do thing in an unintended way.
As a completionist open-world games give me progressively more anxiety. Worried I might miss something or mess up a quest line I like.
I am perfectly fine with a clean story or just don’t bog me down with a growing list of uninteresting side quests. No I don’t want to harvest 500 goblin dicks for a helmet that completes my set.
Tap for spoiler
Yes the helmet is a big floppy dick for my Phallus gear set. I get all the pieces, it unlocks a projectile attack that sticks enemies in place.
the helmet is a big floppy dick for my Phallus gear set. I get all the pieces, it unlocks a projectile attack that sticks enemies in place.
Well now I want the helmet, but if I complete this other minor side quest it’s going to become uncompletable, but it doesn’t mention that anywhere I have to read a strategy guide to know that.
You were supposed to run up in time to kill the first hard-dicked goblin you see first, before it dies in its scripted sequence.
Then you can loot the sticky gobnut item, and if you interpret its lore correctly, you’d know that finishing the side quest where you find the lost canoe tribe would quell the hunger of the hard-dicked goblins, changing their world models and drops so you can’t craft the helmet recipe after that.
Duh. Git gud.
Last night I had a realization that the whole reason fallout 3 was given a radio is to fill the hours and hours of nothing in between locations. And also for the dungeon crawling.
Too bad that the music selection is so tiny that you basically need mods with more (lore-friendly) music.
Agreed.
For me, half the fun in Fallout is discovering some old building and piecing together what fucked up thing happened there.
Bethsoft often pisses me off or lets me down but they are absolutely good at environmental storytelling, no doubt
I dunno. I find them on average a bit ham fisted. I love those elements in their games for sure, but it never moved me like certain environments in the last of us, for example.
There’s definitely something to that. I liked that detective kind of work too. Games don’t need dialogue to tell good stories. There’s even good ways to just wander a large empty world and see sights.
Not much. Open-world is often a design for a looooot of space without intention. It used to be a technical prowess, but now it’s mostly for bland chores simulators. Generic open-worlds and mobile games have hurt game design a lot, especially in the 2010’s, but IMHO, Fromsoft has saved us from that by creating a semi-open, interconnected world design that felt vast and intentional. Elden Ring was their first modern open-world and they nailed it with all that Souls experience.
