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Meanwhile “aggressive” vegan messaging just describes things for what they are, even downplaying them, because there is no way to describe the horrors in words
Vegan, speaking gently and matter-of-factly: “Using animal’s bodies for producing consumable goods involves rape, imprisonment, torture and murder. Leftists are anti-exploitation and anti-capitalist, and using living bodies for profit entails that.”
Leftist, yelling in response: “StoP foRciNG yOUr beLiEfs On mE, vegan, veGaNisM iS a bouRgEOIs phIlOsopHy!”
Im gonna go out on a limb and say that these two statements are not coming out of the same people, and that “the left” is being employed here as a uselessly broad umbrella term including both actual leftists and liberals, as usual
Class, see here where this same user defends a really weak carnist argument while impugning “internet vegans” for their rhetoric:
https://lemmy.ml/comment/27573904
Almost exactly what the OOP was referring to. A vegan-hating tankie. Whataya know, they do exist!
I dunno though, seems to me like they simply can’t pick an opinion to hold with any consistency and simply enjoy stirring shit up for the little ego boost they get for talking down to people on the internet.
Lol cry harder halfwit
You’re the only one who’s crying
If you’re gonna lie make it believable
You’re losing and you know it.
It’s genuinely satisfying for me knowing just how much my existence fucks you up
What a sad existence, that such is how you derive satisfaction. I guess you don’t have any real hobbies…
You’re losing and you know it.
You keep dishing out advice that you need to learn to take yourself
Your retorts are baby-school, you are like a baby
Hahahaha, it’s so ironic to hear that from you 🤣
You’re losing and you know it.
You’re my biggest fan
Notable case of Goomba fallacy.
There surely are fire breathing anti capitalist types who have some personal animosity against vegans but it seems likely these are not always the same people.
I don’t want to be vegan. It has nothing to do with messaging, I just like eating meat. I don’t support the way we abuse animals for food either, but I’m not willing to go vegan over it. Nobody’s perfect. At least I know what I am and can accept that.
I totally get it! I’m a serial murderer and like, I don’t want people to be hurt or dead but I just like murdering so much. At least I know what I am and can accept that 🥰
I respect your lifestyle, but maybe you can do murder free Mondays? You can stab a hay stack on those days?
You know I was raised in a house where we murdered people daily. It was just normal to me. I had to stir the blood once I was able to stand and hold a spoon.
In your case it’s OK. It would be tremendously inappropriate to ask you to let go of your ancestral traditions.
Baby steps. What if you only murdered people who are probably going to die soon, anyway?
…you do support the way we abuse animals for food though, you fund it. Like, intentionally.
Well you could still eat plant based meats from the likes of impossible and beyond. You might say that it’s not the same, but is that difference really worth supporting animal abuse? (and yes, you are supporting it by buying meat). It’s not even the difference between a burger and no burger, it’s between a burger and another burger that maybe tastes slightly different. I’ve never been able to understand that. Am I missing something?
it’s between a burger and another burger that maybe tastes slightly different.
Granted it’s been a decade since i had an animal flesh burger, but those plant based burgers taste better than the animal flesh burgers. Just my 2c
I would never support abusing animals.
Absolutely supports abusing animals.
If you knew what you were doing was immoral, and you kept doing it anyway for pleasure….
There is no moral way to use the bodies of animals for our personal consumption.
We can say nobody is perfect, so I’m going to murder some of the time, because I enjoy it.
It’s not nearly as impossible as you think to go vegan.
I absolutely love the taste of meat. But I saw how animals are treated in the industry. So I don’t eat it because I don’t want to fund it. Would I eat it if I was guaranteed that the animal was happy all their life and didn’t notice being killed? Maybe. Probably. But that isn’t possible so I don’t. There are so many good meat alternatives by now that it really isn’t that hard anymore. For me it started with trying those and realizing they’re not bad at all. I would really encourage you to try a few of the available options. Beyond is really good. And when you know that no animal had to suffer and die for your short moment of enjoying a meal, it tastes even better.
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You’re not vegan. Is that purity testing?
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And I thought vegans are normally considered to be part of the woke left, at least by every outsider…
Hence the paradox of veganism, according to the right it’s a woke leftist thing. That is until you hang out with woke leftists and they are like ‘yeah, no we don’t support veganism’.
If there is one thing lemme has taught me is that there are a lot of prominent leftist vegans, but leftists in general do not support veganism, but very often are openly anti-vegan.
That’s crazy, I’ve experienced the complete opposite. All the leftists I know either are vegetarian or vegan or are supportive and accepting towards it.
That’s just a mathematical impossibility. A majority of the population identifies as progressive. Vegans are a tiny fringe.
Strictly anecdotal but everyone I know, from leftist to liberal, are positive to others being vegan. They just don’t do it themselves.
That’s not now it works. You can be an ally to queer people while being straight, but you cannot be an ally to vegans while paying for the rape and murder of vulnerable individuals. People who needlessly torture and kill the individuals I love are not my ally, no matter what lip service they pay me.
“I think women should have the right to vote. But not my wife!” “I support child protection laws, but I depend on my kid’s income.” These are not allies! These are merely morally inconsistent people, who we cannot count on for anything, least of all honest self-examination.
An ally gladly cooks vegan, endorses restaurants with good alternatives, eat vegan cuisine.
Everyone has different struggles and priorities. Some people fly, some drive a car, some use LLMs etc. Doesn’t mean they’re evil. For me being vegan is really really easy, and I know that’s not the case for everyone. But I know a lot of people who eat very little dairy and meat because they believe in the cause.
How can you say that cooking a nice meal makes up for killing people I love? That’s insulting. Veganism isn’t about me. It doesn’t matter how they treat me. Treating me well or treating me poorly does not make someone an ally, what matters is how they treat animals.
Someone who is plant based but does not do activism or doesn’t identify as vegan or something, that could be an ally. Someone who murders vulnerable individuals and then tells me they support my cause is literally the oppressor.
A majority of progressives… aren’t really leftists. They’re just opportunistic liberals.
I just don’t get it. Why so focused on leftists? Are rights actively pro vegan? This sub is so dumb lol
It’s not that the ‘rights’ are pro-vegan it’s that saying you are against animal abuse shouldn’t be a political thing similar to the way that you are against child abuse or spousal abuse shouldn’t be political.
(Yeah I know saying you are against child or spousal abuse is somehow a political thing these days, but doing the bare minimum shouldn’t be political, at least in my personal opinion.)
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The famous achieving of utopia by doing nothing and crying on twitter strat
So much this.
It makes me wonder whether many “leftists” are just lib poseurs, who are only leftists when it comes to their immediate frustrations in the present. Like the type who “grow up,” earn a decent amount of money and abandon their values under the spell of a bigger paycheck. Or when the economy goes through a normal cyclical upswing, all of the sudden, capitalism is not so bad. Similar to 80s “yuppie” liberals. Then, they talk down to all the “lazy, unsuccessful people.”
Like, if you’re really down with the cause - what you out on your plate is a high modifiable behavior that is well within the realms of cost and feasibility for everyone. If you can say, “Hey, I’m cool with paying half my income in taxes to ensure a better society for all,” why can’t you make another simple anti-exploitation concession?
The excuses are wild. “Veganism isn’t possible for most under capitalism, it’s too expensive, it only becomes feasible under socialism.” WTF, you realize in a socialist world, if ridiculous demand for animal products is still a thing, then the means of production will still find a way to meet that demand?
Yes, clearly leftism is the complete and total enemy of vegans and vegetarians. Surely conservative and liberals will be the true allies. Stunning argument.
Doesn’t look like they claimed any allies.
You can boil vegetables in beef tallow for the electrolytes
I find leftist political events very isolating since rejecting carnism. It’s hard to take people talking about fairness and humanitarianism seriously when they still have the flesh of vulnerable individuals stuck between their teeth. The whole time I’m there, that’s all I’m thinking. But you know it’s not going to be received well if you say anything…
What
That’s not really a vegan unique thing.
There are many varieties of leftist that are extremely focused on purity testing everyone and automatically reject anyone that isn’t sufficiently pure by their standards.
I choose to avoid them.
Wait, the rich aren’t on the vegan approved diet
the rich are for feeding to the plants
COMPOST THE RICH
We’ll let the utilitarian vegans eat them.
vegans are like Mormons. they shame you into believing they are morally superior and shit on any good will from anyone not like them.
edit: thanks for the validation folks!
The difference is we are morally superior
🤣
anyone who has to say they are superior, is neither moral or superior.
you know who also says they are superior?
nazis. white nationalists. christian fascists.
should we put vegans on that same list?
Yes, people who don’t want animals to suffer are literally nazis. I think you cracked it.
I’m not the one defending statements that say I’m morally superior. I’m morally challenged, because I’m human and human existence is complex and nuanced.
I know from experience and history, the only people who outwardly promote they are morally superior are neither and usually stems from an inferiority complex.
the most famous group of people who were both compensating for their inferiority complex and boasting their superiority was the Nazi.
can you give a better example of who “superior vegans” would be better compared to?
I consider myself morally superior to Jeffery Dahmer because I’m not a serial killer, apparently that means I’m a Nazi 🤔
nazis. white nationalists. christian fascists.
Notably, those groups on average all agree with you about eating animals. Isn’t that interesting? 🤔
wow! population saturation! such a big brain move!
you realize that only 3% of the US population is vegan, right? that means around 90% of the population eats meat. 9% of the US is estimated to be neo-nazi, so of course they eat meat.
what’s the point you were trying to make? neo-nazis eat meat, so all meat eaters are neo-nazis? that’s such a lazy no effort comment, get over yourself.
I just think it’s funny that you’re comparing vegans to nazis, white nationalists, and christian fascists even though those groups hate vegans and would probably be happy if all vegans were ground up into dog food feet-first.
I guess you don’t see the irony.
I just think it’s funny that you’re comparing vegans to nazis, white nationalists, and christian fascists even though those groups hate vegans and would probably be happy if all vegans were ground up into dog food feet-first.
But I’m not comparing them.
I said vegans believe they are morally superior and then someone said “because we are morally superior”.
then I said that anybody that has to express they are morally superior is neither moral or superior and provided examples of the types of people who claim to be superior, morally or otherwise.
I guess you don’t see the irony.
do you?
then I said that anybody that has to express they are morally superior is neither moral or superior and provided examples of the types of people who claim to be superior, morally or otherwise.
No, you literally asked if we should put vegans on the same list as nazis, white nationalists, and christian fascists. How can I read that as anything other that comparing vegans to those groups? Groups who, as I said, would be happy if all vegans died in screaming agony. If that isn’t what you meant, then it was sloppy rhetorical framing on your part and you should do better.
I’m not a moralist. I don’t think moralism is useful because history does not progress as a series of moral battles.
But just because someone claims to be or feels like they are morally superior doesn’t put them on that same list. The slavery abolitionists claimed to be morally superior, as did the radical republicans against the monarchy, as did the suffragettes against misogyny, as does basically every group fighting against oppression. Does that make all of them the equivalent to “nazis, white nationalists, and christian fascists”? Obviously not, it’s a nonsense framing, and you should be embarrassed for even saying it.
I would never.
I have standards for where I put my fun bits.
Excellent bait - but does it serve the vegan cause?
Judging from the responses in the comments, probably not.
It’s a good post if you want to feel good about yourself though I guess?
Edit: given the downvotes, I suspect advancing the vegan cause was never the objective.
I appreciate posts like this. The debates in the comments show people’s beliefs are being challenged and it’s reaching people who are at least willing to consider the argument instead of dismissing it out of hand. You can’t change someone’s mind without introducing doubt, and pointing out a double standard is a good approach. In contrast, a post with no objections is likely only reaching people already convinced.
Yeah, maybe vegans should try less aggressive messaging
I’d opt for smarter messaging - you’ll catch more flies with honey than gall.
It’s a post made to a vegan community, for other vegans to read. It’s only function is, in fact, to make the poster feel good.
No one is going to further “the vegan cause” by posting to a vegan community on a fringe website and that was never the point.
That’s the most accurate statement I’ve read in this entire thread. My hat goes off to you for making it.
Almost there, keep going
