Don’t forget to read beyond the headline, folks! The headline makes it sound like she was killed because of the argument, but based on the account of the events in the story, that isn’t what happened. He was clearly drunk and handling a firearm recklessly (and probably more than a little bit trying to “own the libs”), but according to the late girl’s boyfriend who was nearby, the father was horrified and screaming for help immediately after this happened. This wasn’t any sort of “honor killing” or anything, just an idiot redneck being an idiot.
I’ll never understand the appeal and hold Trump has on the minds of weak men who worship him. This man killed his own daughter is insane.
Human psychology and propaganda. It works on smart people too.
People keep saying that, but 1) having a degree is not a sign of someone’s general intelligence, not even close, and 2) it absolutely has a greater effect the dumber you are.
Intelligence is curiosity and being able to have a greater degree of nuance in your thinking. It’s being self-aware, and about being able to understand transferable properties. A LOT of people, regardless of education, struggle deeply with those concepts.
Decades of lies and crumbling control over their material lives and social status.
Imagine you were abused by most of your adults in your life. They would hit you, demean you, restrict what you ate, who you could love, what you could say, and also expect that you must, at risk of your own life, become “a man” too. You must work your life away to achieve something great, you must provide for your family, you must create a legacy or you actually deserved that abuse you suffered from. Now every year you get poorer no matter how much you work. You see your family less day after day as they get sucked into a life of constant work. You can’t be sad though that’s unmanly. It can’t be someone who is “succesfuls” fault because you are “the man” the master of the universe, just like the rich and powerful or else you are a loser that deserves abuse and ridicule.
So you watch the news, your civic duty, and they tell you that people out there want to make you less then nothing. They want to strip being man of prestige (and with that do you really have anything). They want to strip hard work of its value (and if everyone just got what they needed what was those decades of abuse for?)! But you know you wouldnt just be nothing then, youd be less then that. You would be a loser, a life spent as a joke, and worthless.
Trump, like you, is a strong successful man. You and him can fight together to stop the woke feminazis from destroying your family. Stop the immigrants from invading your home and making you poor and insignificant. He’s not perfect sure, but he’s fighting for you, the only part of you that matters, the only part you know you still have left.
Even better your new allies give you something else, a miracle tonic for the parts of you you ignore and ache. Enemies and the constant reassurance that everything, and I mean everything is their fault. You, like a man ought to, can fight a tangible threat and be a warrior. You just have to tell your self “they are lying to manipulating everyone else”. When your wife threatens your leadership role as the man? Thats the enemies’ lies. When HR threaten your lively hood? The enemy. When you children avoid you? The enemy.
You don’t have to reccon with anything. You’re not abuse. They’re soft. Your parents were harder on you, and look at you. Not just a man. A warrior. Willing to sacrifice everything, for not just your family, or country, but for civilization maybe even part of holy war on the side of supreme good!
It’s thought terminating. Decades of lies and abuse to justify decades of being and commiting abuse. Yes they need therapy. They need to have a space to actually learn to see themselves as humans worthy of love and a part of a great web of connections with people that both can love them and they themselves deserve love as well. They also need real tangible material improvement. You might be able to therapy people out of status demands like big house, boat, big truck, and those are huge costs on the average American household, but so is healthcare, food, and training to stay employable (which we call education in the states).
Sorry for the rant.
Weak persons, get with the program.
Lead pipes, sub-par educational system, peee pressure, propaganda machine, social media bubble, being a shitty human being to begin with
“As I lifted the gun to show her I suddenly heard a loud bang,” Kris allegedly said. “I did not understand what had happened. Lucy immediately fell.”
Bullshit. This means he took a loaded gun, failed to clear it, put the barrel in the direction of a person, and pulled the trigger. Guns don’t just “go off”. All while having admitted to relapsing on alcohol. I count four mistakes there, where any one of them not having been made would have prevented this incident.
It’s almost like you’d have to intend to make that series of mistakes.
Lets break it down… (mostly for the non-americans who aren’t used to guns)
- Gun was loaded. You shouldn’t be storing a loaded weapon. So he either loaded it there or is an irresponsible gun owner.
- Gun was pointed at a person. Never point a gun (loaded or not) at anything you don’t intend to shoot.
- His finger was on the trigger. No trigger discipline at all. Index finger should be planted on the frame while doing literally ANYTHING other than meaning to pull the trigger.
This is the basics… Anyone who’s taken any gun safety course would know, any responsible gun owner would know and religiously follow…
- Treat every gun like it’s loaded
- Keep your finger off the trigger
- Don’t point at anything you don’t plan to shoot
- Be aware of what’s behind your target
“Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.”
Apparently, he was willing. /srs
You forgot keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire, but yeah the thing about weapons safety rules is you have to fail all of them in order to shoot someone. He had intent in my mind.
I don’t see where it says what kind of gun. It could have been a revolver. But at that point does it really matter anymore? So many “mistakes” were already made.
So, fun fact: Alexander Hamilton may have killed himself.
He supplied the dueling pistols for the duel with Burr, and a few things about them.
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He had them custom made with a larger, more deadly bore.
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He had modified the trigger to require a much lighter pull than most pistols would have required.
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The musical (of incredibly dubious historical value) even makes note of this, he was seen fiddling with the trigger prior to the duel, and selected his pistol first.
Accounts on Hamilton firing in to the air differ, but what is consistent are accounts of Burr seeming pretty shocked when his gun went off. Accounts also pretty universally indicate that he tried to rush to Hamilton after he’d been shot to lend aid before being escorted away.
Anyway, that’s not at all meant to refute your claim. Guns generally don’t just “go off”.
Incredibly dubious historical battle
Are you implying that the nation was not formed on the back of a rap battle my good sir?
Firstmost, curse your lady and the Americas you claim.
Westside on our steeds, come equipped with game.
Ye claim to be a player, but I rode your wife.
We disdain the English, Royalty fucked for life.Credit: The Right Honorable Tupac Shakur, Earl of the West
If by rap battle you mean drunken aristocrats buying up presses so they could insult each other in papers? Then indeed we were!
Yeah the only guns I know of that can just “go off” either have a hair trigger that’s worn or are of exceptionally shit build quality like say the Ross Rifle.
If you take the worst gun, modify it to have the lightest trigger possible, if you don’t have it just sitting around with a round in the chamber it won’t just “go off”. It’s wild that the simplest safety precaution save a lot of lives but nope these people need their dick extensions to always be ready to go.
Oh I was just making note that there are ways for a gun to to fire by itself for one reason or another when loaded. Regardless making sure the gun is cleared is a pretty damned good way of ensuring it doesn’t do that. Or alternatively leave a Ross Rifle behind for the Germans when you leave a trench so it’s their problem.
Guns generally don’t just “go off”.
They can and do. There’s chapter and verse on gun safety - handling, cleaning, storage - to deal with the risk of accidental discharge.
If you treat a gun like a toy (and this guy’s testimony certainly sounds like he did), it’s very possible to fire it by accident.
Right, they have to be mishandled, uncleaned, and not properly stored, so like they said, guns generally don’t just “go off”.
they have to be mishandled, uncleaned, and not properly stored
I don’t see any evidence to suggest the guy was maintaining any of his kit properly.
guns generally don’t just “go off”
They can and do when mishandled, which is why gun safety exists to begin with.
“Don’t point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot” is Rule 1 for a reason. And if he was playing with the gun like a toy, it’s very easy to believe he fumbled it. The stories of children setting off guns by playing with them are more numerous than you can count.
Not sure what the downvoters are thinking. I was reading through this whole argument about whether or not guns can just “go off” and kept thinking a) obviously there are cases where people fire a gun they are handling unintentionally, whether because they are idiots or the gun malfunctioned. But b) it doesn’t make a difference in whether he was negligent because he already was when he pointed it at her in the first place. That’s all that should have been needed to get a negligent manslaughter charge to stick, accidental discharge or not, it hit her because he was pointing the gun at her.
Though I don’t buy it was accidental at all, given the circumstances. Heated argument about Trump just before she’s supposed to leave but first he needs to show her his gun that just happens to accidentally fire while he was pointing it at her?
Jury nullification goes both ways and that grand jury just condoned the murder of someone who opposed Trump.
Its mostly semantics. Dude is saying guns don’t just go off because of X, Y, and Z. And people are pointing out that X, Y, and Z are the result of negligence.
People neglecting gun safety is the cause. The gun goes off because of the negligence.
I interpreted their comments as saying the guy was negligent on multiple levels. Like saying he probably was neglecting maintenance to the point where the gun can randomly fire doesn’t sound like a defense of the guy to me but more like the gun going off could have occurred because he triggered it himself directly or because he didn’t keep it in a condition to prevent it from being triggered indirectly.
Though that last paragraph is the most important part IMO, because regardless of how the gun went off, if he had been following gun safety rules, it should have just resulted in an embarrassing hole in his floor, not the death of the person he was “showing the gun to”.
Some guns are just built like shit.
Laws have been passed to shield gun manufacturers from liability for faulty products.
Still, this case sounded like premeditated murder more than anything else. And that Texas grand jury, and prosecutor, were fine with it because the daughter hated Trump.
I think they call that negligence, not an accident.
Accidental negligence - legally referred to as inadvertent negligence - is a standard by which a crime can be adjudicated.
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If I remember from reading about this when it happened, he’s also the only witness. The only other person that could confirm this was an accident is fucking dead. So they just believe him? The fuck?
I think about this girl all the time. Her own father shot her over Trump. Trump. I just can’t wrap my head around it. Or around the jury deciding to just let him go. There’s corruption there somewhere.
That’s because MAGA people are rabid dogs
No, worse, they are rabid humans.
Back during his first term there was a story on the Risk podcast where an Asian guy told the story of going home after some time away at college and visiting the family that adopted him when he was a baby; and how, when he said he didn’t support Trump, that family almost beat him to death right there in the living room. It was one of the most heartbreaking stories I’ve ever heard in my entire life. I think about that shit a lot.
I’m not sure how we’re supposed to ever move forward sharing a country with these people. Regardless of who is in charge after Trump. It’s untenable. These people cannot accept the basics of our shared reality. Talking like fundamental shit.
I never understood, until recently, why re-education camps have existed at various points. Now I get it.
Grand juries exist to make sure the norms of law enforcement and prosecution don’t stray too far from the common populace.
It’s why the guy who threw the sandwich at the CPB guy about a year ago did not end up with a felony.
However, it cuts both ways. I don’t know if I believe TX is really about to flip purple because shit like this is common. Ask the protesters sentanced to life as terrorists for moving a box or leaving an ICE protest early.
Tribalism has always been a thing in human societies. We’re at the phase we’re finding out how it operates within a democracy.
Surprisingly, or not, it’s even easier than before.
Fascism is alive and well in Texass.
He claimed he had a conversation about guns with his daughter and she asked to see the gun, having never discussed his gun ownership with him before.
In the statement, Kris Harrison, who admitted drinking wine earlier in the day, said: “As I lifted the gun to show her I suddenly heard a loud bang. I did not understand what had happened. Lucy immediately fell.”
He told police who attended the scene: “We got it out to have a look and just as I picked it up it just went off.”
The inquest heard a grand jury in the US had determined there was insufficient evidence to charge anyone in connection with Lucy Harrison’s death.
Well. I guess the moral of the story is do not visit the USA.
He just straight up murdered his daughter and they bought the story “I dunno officer, it just went off”. It’s bullshit on a whole other level. Guns don’t just “go off” unless it was an sks it took a decision. And that decision was that he loves trump more than his daughter. As a veteran, a gun owner and a parent, that sickens me more than just about anything you could conjure up from history.
Even if the gun did “just go off”, he was the one pointing it at her.
At the very least it should be manslaugther for negligence
That’s exactly right. Even if it were true (it isn’t) he still fucked up in several ways.
The plausibility of this story is 0. “I hate trump, sure, I’ll go take a look at your gun, why not?” Nothing in this story tracks.
Honestly if you handle a gun there should always some form of punishment. Don’t know the legal system there but something like reckless killing. No matter how it happened. To kill someone you need to do a lot of things wrong and it does not just happen.
Handle a gun and hurt someone*
Fully agree, it should be automatic jail time.
Well except that one time I got punched by the slide rail but we don’t need to go into that.
Hell, even if someone else hurts someone with your gun you should still be liable. Unless they broke in to your house, broke into your safe, and got your lock off, but that’s very unlikely to happen.
Serious question here, are guns allowed to be stored loaded in the United States? Gun laws here are really strict, guns are not stored loaded. To the point where while hunting you’re supposed to keep the gun clear right up until you intend to shoot the game. Then immediately clear it when you’re done. Not that everyone follows that rule but it’s there. The idea of putting a gun away still loaded is insane and this would be a slam dunk case here on that alone.
Storing them loaded? There are Americans who keep loaded rifles/shotguns right next to their front door.
There are basically no rules about firearms in the US because the gun lobby has successfully convinced the majority of Americans that any gun legislation, no matter how reasonable or well intentioned it may be, is an encroachment on their constitutional rights.
Special thanks to Antonin Scalia for his bullshit opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller
I assume in the US people who are afraid of “home invasions” and similar rationalise that they need to be able to access a weapon in an emergency without being slowed down by rules like that. Which does make sense, if you live in a post-apocalyptic video game.
Yes, USians are allowed to store guns loaded.
I honestly hope this dude kills himself. Do the world a favor.
But he’s MAGA, so I wouldn’t count on guilt/shame. And I’m sure Jesus will forgive him, and it’ll just become part of his “testimony”
How to get away with murder. Say “Look at this gun. Whoops.”
Well. I guess the moral of the story is do not visit the USA.
As a Canadian, way ahead of you. Never setting foot in that cesspool of a country ever again.
Can you adopt me I hate it here
So because of this precedent, can just anybody shoot their daughter then claim “oopsie daisy, your honor” and get away?
Only if she was one of those commie liberals, and you did it to defend Supreme Leader.
Babies expect to be fed and housed and cleaned up after without contributing in any meaningful way, so according to conservatives, they must be 100% commie
Luckily No, and sadly this is exactly how the system is meant to work. The grand jury did its job as intended, deciding if an action is even seen as a potential crime, and clearly in texas the people don’t see this as a crime.
Manslaughter in front of a grand jury didn’t even stick. It’s like the prosecutor had vacation plans didn’t want to to reschedule.
The awful thing is that if the family is behind the alcoholic trump father since he is still alive, there is no one left to bring justice in her name. Is she just to be forgotten and swept under the Texas rug?
Trump country is different. I was driving through a rural township and saw these signs “justice for some guy” and searched for the name. Nearby towns news article said he had multiple accounts of SA on kids and when the cops arrived with a warrant, he drove drunk into a bunch of stuff before getting rolled into a ditch. And now half the locals are mad that he’s in jail presumably without bail. WTF.
the boyfriend says the the daughter and father always argued when he brought up him owning guns and the father claims they never discussed it before once and he accidently shot her when he was just showing her his gun. while he was drunk, the boyfriend also says the father pulled her into the father’s room before he heard the shot go off. it sounds like the judge, and prosecution in TX don’t really care if you kill your kids as long as you say ‘oops’ well enough.
Seems like it, but these rural Texans won’t give a shit because she’s a woman. Stepped outside the kitchen and talked back to her pa so basically asked for it.
In fairness, the girl’s mother is a British citizen living in the UK and fought for justice for her daughter.
I think about her so she won’t be forgotten
Should have prosecuted it as an abortion.
I’m here about the title.
The local jury
Grand jury.
He was immediately released
Yes, that’s how this works.
Now, bear in mind, I’m only here about the part of this from the title that I quoted. For anyone outraged by that part, no.
The way this works:
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A matter is put before a grand jury. Only evidence submitted is by the prosecutor. Nothing from the defense. The standard of evidence is “probable cause”, which is a very very low standard. Basically, unless someone screwed something up massively, there will almost always be sufficient probable cause for a case to go forward.
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If probable cause is indeed found, the case will proceed. It may eventually have a trial by jury, where both sides present their case and a jury decides - for civil matters the standard is preponderance of the evidence (i.e. majority of evidence seems guilty or not), for criminal it’s beyond a reasonable doubt, meaning it seems pretty clear and any evidence that is against seems unlikely.
So speaking generally, when indictment in front of a grand jury fails, it means one of something like these happened:
- Fundamental evidence failed “probable cause”. For example, say it resulted from a traffic stop, but it was found that the traffic stop had no legal justification. Because of “fruit of the forbidden tree”, it might be entirely thrown out
- Perhaps the prosecutors failed to get their shit together on evidence
- Perhaps, as is theorized by some in this case, the prosecutor felt they had to present the case, but threw it on purpose, sort of like a prosecutorial nullification, if you will
So again, not talking about the case (I’ve discussed/debated in other threads - this is not a new story), just the parts of the title that make it clear OP doesn’t understand the difference between a jury and a grand jury. :)
do also note, that if the prosecution doesn’t like the results of the grand jury he can just keep doing it over until he gets the answer he wants… unless he is actually not trying for a conviction.
Originating in England during the Middle Ages, modern examples include grand juries in the United States, and to a lesser extent, Liberia. wp
Sounds like a modern and reasonable institution.
Would you prefer the case go to trial before it’s established if there’s sufficient probable cause? Or if only the state gets to make that determination?
Given that grand jury indictment rates are like >90%, what’s actually being achieved here?
That’s probably a pretty good rate considering probable cause is the bar.
Also given there’s no defence, I should hope they could almost always win a completely uncontested review of evidence.
+/-10% of cases with bullshit evidence aren’t going to trial
Yes
Ok bootlicker
Almost every other jurisdiction in functional democracies do not have grand juries and don’t plan to implement such a mechanism, nor are they implored to do so, are they all bootlickers?
Yes. Yes they are. Anyone who wants more government control of the justice system, and less accountability to the people, is a bootlicker. People in those countries are expected to trust that the state did it’s due diligence before putting someone on trial, and as the right sweeps these countries they’re going to learn why that’s a mistake.
one of the faces of American exceptionalism
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As I say, the love they have for even their own children is entirely conditional. They will make you the enemy and kill you at a moment’s notice. If you have MAGA in your family, kick them out of what they can come to. Ostracization from family and society is the only nice thing we can do against them.
Imo, if it was your gun, unless it was literally stolen from a locked gun safe, anyone who dies by it is automatically your fault.
Doesn’t really matter what the circumstances were. If anyone is even in a position to be injured or killed by your weapon, it usually means you acted negligently in either handling or storing the weapon.
Imo, if it was your gun, unless it was literally stolen from a locked gun safe
I disagree, if it could be stolen from your gun safe, you didn’t secure it enough, you should still be partially at fault.
-break into someone’s house
-rob their gun safe at gunpoint
-shoot them with their own weapon
-“its their fault officer that gun wasn’t adequately secured”
Should have shot the robber with the backup that they keep in [REDACTED]!
No they had to stop storing them there after the Supreme Court went hard right. Something something Sodomy v Gomorrah or some damn thing. IDK the Republicans just make it up as they go, so it could be literally anything.
As much of a fan as I am of gun control, expecting gun owners to have a safe that is literally, physically impossible to break into is wildly unreasonable
That sort of safe doesn’t exist there’s a dude who pops full on bank vaults in less than an hour unless they have time locks and a time lock would make no sense.
Underwriters laboratories rates safe’s security in minutes most of the time.
No safe is impenetrable
Some of them are barely better than a paper bag. LockPickingLawyer has opened many far too easily.
Gun safes are particularly bad most of the time. Many of the big ones are super thin sheet metal on top of a sheetrock core. And the small ones just get stolen with the guns in them.
It’s actually why I keep my pistol in the cash safe in my used commercial van. The safe’s surrounded by an additional steel box on all 4 sides with the door facing up and bolted into the car body the in a way that you’d have to open the safe to get to the bolts, with the other side of the bolts located so you’d have to remove the gas tank to get to it.
The van was actually stolen once before I owned it, and the thieves never did get to the cash in the safe, so I figured it’s a more secure place for my pistol than a safe in my house.
I’m also usually pretty close to my car, whereas I’m away from my house for long stretches.
That’s why you keep the guns and ammo separate.
Texas has some insane defend your land laws.
Look them up
while this is true, it has absolutely no bearing on this murder.
Look them up
How?
They were arguing at the time, he definitely just shot her and lied about it. Even with a sig 320, you need to abuse the fucking thing to get it to go off.
Even if he weren’t lying, it would still be negligent homicide. If you point a gun at someone, you are responsible if they get injured or killed. Doesn’t matter if you pulled the trigger, mishandled the gun or a magic fairy pixie materialised and pulled the trigger for you.
The mere fact that you pointed a loaded gun at another person already makes you responsible per se in my book.
I’d rather KILL my OWN DAUGHTER then to say Trump is WRONG!
-LITERALLY Republicans!
honor killings…
I prefer the Japanese style ones, where you know… it’s yourself.
Certainly, the asswipe MAGA father, will turn into a born again fucknut Christian Nationalist. The Texas Oblast continues to shit on itself through the courts.
