- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
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To be fair cantaloupe and prosciutto is way better than pineapple on pizza has ever been (this is not opinion this is fact)
Crusades have been launched over pettier disagreements.
Opinion that bot you banned
Odd hill to die on.
That the best kind!
This underlines my biggest issue with italian cuisine. There are so many chefs that leave no room for innovation or updates to a traditional recipies. I’ll put cream in my carbonara and pineapple on my pizza because I like the taste of it. And those preferences should be more important than the old traditions when it comes to making foods I want to enjoy.
There is no such thing as a ‘traditional’ recipe. It was what those individuals made and with what resources they had.
It’s all good, just as long as you don’t break your spaghetti before putting it in the pot…
Look… The Poles put strawberry in pasta. I found the idea of pineapple on pizza weird when I heard of it… But then I tried it and I liked it. The flavors surprisingly worked.
Not to say I order it frequently. I am very much a meat-lover cheesy pizza type of guy. My normal pizzas are boring.
Sweet and salty go great together, as do fruit and pork. I’m convinced half the people who say they don’t like pineapple on pizza have just never tried it.
I remember thinking it would be gross as a kid but then tried a slice when a friend’s family ordered one and really enjoying it. Told my dad I wanted it next time we ordered pizza and he refused and made me buy my own because “nobody wants that garbage and it’ll get thrown away”. Ate some that night then went to bed, went to eat the next day and he’d eaten every leftover slice overnight. From that day on, he only ordered Hawaiian and I got completely burnt out for years.
Plum stuffed veal is a thing!
Pineapple on pizza works very well.
Now, banana on pizza, I will shiv a motherfucker committing such a crime. There are standards, dude.
Pfft https://thenordicdish.com/swedish-banana-curry-pizza/ just add some curry and chill
I hate that I am tempted, and I will die denying my urges on principle.
Hahaha I’d try it once, but I have a pretty strong dislike of banana in general so I doubt I’d enjoy it
Wow. He liked it that much? Variety is the spice of life, my guy, you should have told him that. I got favorite foods, too. But even then I need to take a break from them.
My favorite book to read to my kids is called “every night is pizza night” where the main character discovers that even though pizza will always be her favorite, there’s tons of other delicious things to try and there’s more than one best food.
My father was a man of extremes, 0 or 100 with little in between.
And you? What about you? Are you of extremes?
No, while I enjoy some extreme things I am a firm believer in moderation.
I respect that you found your own path. I didn’t turn out as my father either. I’m very much like my mother though. Minus the hard working nature and sound morals.
Funny as this is, the guy is def both stupid and an asshole
I hope he also refuses to put tomatoes on pizza, because they’re a new world plant and non-native to Europe and Italy. What a fart sniffing jackhole.
Tomatoes are fruit! D-:
So are eggplants, but they’re used as vegetables in a culinary context.
I just shove them up my girlfriends muff, we have a wide assortment of fruits and vegetables for this purpose, and none of us have the faintest idea about botanical taxonomy.
Obligatory
Kitchen serves Caesar salad that was created 100 years ago in Tijuana by Italian immigrant Caesar Cardini when his hotel restaurant was short on ingredients.
It also serves “Kilpatrick”, which is oysters served with “Grilled finely chopped bacon with Worcestershire, BBQ, Dijon, ketchup, Tabasco, lemon juice and smoked paprika”.
Precursors to pizza used things like dates and other fruits as toppings.
The menu has meat all over it, which to me reads more like an Italian-American thing where meat over here was super cheap and thus became increasingly incorporated into Italian dishes.
And of course modern pizza uses a key ingredient not even available until it was brought back from the New World.
But sure, this is a step too far and an affront to his culture.
Wait until this guy hears how many pizzarias are run by Greek folks, rather than Italians. His heart will explode, I’m sure.
Greeks mogging Romans once again.
The Romans came in and saved the Greeks’ asses twice with no strings attached just because they were the Greeks’ fanboys. Romans mogged the everloving fuck out of the Greeks.
Computer, define “mogged”
… I’m sorry, for your own safety I can not provide you with that information.
Verb; To assert ones dominance.
Where I live: the Italian restaurants are run by Greeks, the Greek restaurants are run by Serbians, the Turkish restaurants are run by Indians, and the Indian restaurants are run by Turks. It’s like nobody wanted to sell their own food lol
Where I live, the Turkish restaurants are mainly run by Kurds. Despite the sign outside on the building, they really don’t like being mistaken for Turks.
Lebanese restaurants are often run by Palestinians or Syrians. Syrians are better cooks than the Lebanese (no small feat, that). Palestinians are as good as the Lebanese, but there are small differences in how the cuisine is prepared.
Thai restaurants are sometimes run by Laotians, and at those places, if you ask for Lao food, they might make you something tasty off-menu.
In almost the entire UK, the majority of Indian restaurants are run by Bangladeshis. South Indian restaurants are an exception.
Also where I live, there are a number of Mexican restaurants run by Filipinos. That doesn’t work all that well.
“Greeks are Turks that think they are Italians.”
And of course modern pizza uses a key ingredient not even available until it was brought back from the New World.
Not sure what point you’re trying to make since Pizza came from Napoli immigrants to the USA where it spread across the east coast and the rest of the country. American tourists then spread it across Italy because they kept asking head scratching, Italian chefs about it who couldn’t help them. There’s basically two kinds of Pizza: A local dish of Naples and a popular American fast food but it was never something traditionally Italian that represents the country’s cuisine or anything. Some Italians just somehow made being a food snob their culture or something.
Another funny thing is that Carbonara sauce has endless documented recipes going back many years that include all sorts of ham, cheese and even garlic so don’t let any Italian tell you how to make a “authentic” carbonara. There is no such thing and they don’t know what they’re talking about.
If my grandmother had wheels she would be a bike. That’s all I need to know about ham in carbonara
Do they think wheat only comes from north america?
Tomatoes
Italians: “You can’t put fruit on pizza!!1!”
Tomatoes: -_-
Tomatoes aren’t Italian.
And tea isn’t originally English. So what?
So maybe stop acting like it’s some ancient cuisine that people are disrespecting because they use it in a different way. That was the point of the comment
American at Apple pie
Apple pie’s British actually
Tomatoes are fruit, yes. Botanically.
Here is a list of botanical fruits: tomato, cucumber, zucchini, yellow squash, acorn squash, butternut squash, pumpkin, eggplant, bell pepper, jalapeno pepper, habanero pepper, poblano pepper, cayenne pepper, serrano pepper, banana pepper, avocado, olive
Tomato is botanically a fruit, and culinarily a vegetable. Vegetables are not a botanical classification. Botanical classifications are often surprising - a strawberry is not a botanical berry, for example, but culinarily it is.
There’s no such thing as botanically vegetable
Yeah probably cause they don’t wanna yell “prep the accessory fruits” 10 times a shift.
There is literally a traditional Neapolitan pizza with figs and cheese on it.
But sure, this is a step too far
Cuisine is an element of culture and so a socially-defined thing. Few would argue that espresso isn’t a part of Italian cuisine, but it was only really invented in the 1930s (coffee had been consumed in Italy for long before that, of course). Ciabatta was invented in 1982 and I’m sure most Italians would be fine with serving that.
But pineapple on pizza is not just not part of the socially-defined Italian cuisine; it’s an antithesis to it! It’s an emblem to everyone of how you can take something that is part of a cuisine (pizza) and do something to it that is completely at odds with it. Whether you like pineapple on pizza or not, that should be clear.
So, it shouldn’t be surprising that some people feel strongly enough about what is and isn’t part of their cuisine and draw the line there. In my experience, many Italians do feel very strongly about their cuisine, more so than any other nationality I’ve talked to about food. Try asking some what they think about spaghetti and meatballs for an example that seems innocuous to most non-Italians.
I respect such viewpoints but I do think there are plenty of people who hold them without really understanding them - who don’t realise how malleable cultural elements like cuisine are and who think they’re actually upholding an objective and immutable standard. That’s clearly wrong, but just because what is part of a cuisine changes doesn’t mean everything is part of a cuisine.
For restaurants there’s a decision to make - do you stick to what you hold to be the authentic cuisine, or do something more accommodating of globalised expectations? There’s room for both… and individual cooks who aren’t the restaurant owner or whatever probably don’t get to make the call.
Good points. But I would argue that pizza more than almost any dish (maybe rivaled by hamburgers?) has far transcended its roots and become a true global phenomenon.
“Hawaiian” pizza, generally considered the origin of pineapple as a topping, started in Canada in 1962*. That’s almost 65 years ago and 20 years older than your example of Ciabatta.
[*] Or possibly Portland, OR in 1957.
Canada in 1962
And bear in mind that pizza only became international basically right after WWII, so if pineapple pizza was invented today, pizza would have only started becoming known to most in, say, North America in like 2013 or so.
It blows my mind how quickly it spread and became just something normal.
I think that’s one reason I’m perfectly fine with the places that do things like put corn on it. lol
Food is meant to be enjoyed. And nourish, but hopefully pleasantly so.
Unarguably it’s a global phenomenon. And personally I don’t greatly value authenticity - or adherence to a particularly canonical cuisine - but changes to a cuisine’s canon don’t just happen due to time passed; that was really my point with the ciabatta example, that it is accepted in spite of being very recent. I haven’t asked anyone explicitly about ciabatta, but I would guess that even though it happened recently, it’d be accepted by most Italians, even those who are fairly strict about what counts as authentic, as Italian cuisine.
Why, even though it’s so recent? Well, in the end it’s about social agreement, not rules, but there are probably some reasons that go into that agreement: it was developed in Italy; it has similarities to existing cuisine; those similarities were consciously developed; it doesn’t violate any implicit expectations in the existing cuisine. Hawaiian pizza certainly doesn’t share those aspects. That doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be accepted, but it means it’s harder.
To take another example, sandwiches are an accepted part of British cuisine, and have also well and truly transcended those roots and become global. But that doesn’t mean that banh mi are part of British cuisine!
How exactly is pineapple an “antithesis” of Italian cuisine?
Well, what other flavours in Italian food would you compare it to? Don’t read too much into it, I just mean the flavour is far from what’s already there.
Ciabatta
wow… i had no idea something like that was only made so recently. That’s kinda wild.
Well, ciabatta believe it!
They are not precursors but a family of flat, oven fired dough, with toppings. It’s a whole culinary style in the Mediterranean basin.
It’s essentially like saying that Texans get to decide what people put on a barbeque.
Most Texans I know would loudly agree with that.
And of course modern pizza uses a key ingredient not even available until it was brought back from the New World.
Still has nothing to do with the United States. The tomato was introduced to Europe centuries before that country even existed. So I don’t really get what the point of this statement is. Every Italian dish needs to be from before 1500 to be authentic?
The point is that you don’t have a monopoly on defining what food is it isn’t “real” pizza, and old world cuisine very frequently isn’t actually as old as they claim it be. In many cases “new world” food has an even longer history than old world food, especially in South and Central America
The ruling also detailed an incident at work in April this year where Tamburella fractured bones in his right hand when he struck a metal hand rail.
Forget the pineapple - dude has anger issues and shouldn’t be running a kitchen.
Yes, that was in the title of the post
Italian chef
ItalianchefFTFY
And Italy also invented fascism, so I’m not sure I’ll follow their judgement on pineapples…
Personally, I wouldn’t care what a customer ordered on their pizza, they could order the worst possible combination of flavours, and I’d happily make it for them, what’s the big deal? It wouldn’t hurt me, or anyone else.
I’ve visited Italy and you know what I learned?
The Italians don’t know what the fuck to do with pizza. They’re straight up bad at it.
Look, I know people have a lot of opinions when it comes to pizza. When you ask people “what makes the perfect pizza”, the answer you get may differ vastly if you ask someone from Chicago, or from New York, or perhaps Detroit. But I’ll tell you what, any American establishment that makes good pizza, makes it better than they do in Rome (to be fair my only actual experience with Italian pizza is from Naples, but I was seriously underwhelmed).
In short, don’t be fooled into thinking pizza is Italian food, it’s not. Pizza is more American than apple pie.
Edit: This appears to be an unpopular opinion, but I intend to die on this hill. Pizza was invented in the US, and that’s probably still where it’s done best. (I say probably, I obviously haven’t tried pizza from every country, but Italy certainly isn’t some mecca for pizza)
Well that is just like your opinion man. The best 3 pizzas I ever had were in Naples
You’re gonna get different types of pizza in different parts of Italy - quite aside from the fact that different establishments are of different quality. My own experience of pizza around Italy ranged from ‘Wow!’ to ‘The fuck is this shit?’. And TBF I’ve had good pizza in other countries too.
That said, IMO people who put pineapple on pizza are perverted.
Sounds like you had your taste buds destroyed by a lifetime of American cuisine.
I’ve traveled a lot in Europe, including Italy. The best Italian pizza I got was in a Croatian restaurant.
Dude, you went to one tourist trap pizza place and wrote off an entire nation. Come on, dude, maybe the ONE place you went was having an off day. Italian food is widely regarded as pretty fucking good. Also pizza rustica is approximately 700 years older than the USA but whatever
I went to several different adorable restaurants, the atmosphere was lovely, the rest of the food was amazing!
Napoli pizza is the best pizza
You can like it, that’s fine. But I’d prefer if you didn’t call it pizza.
Pizza is not really Italian. A lot of cultures have invented flatbread that you top with stuff before baking. It just happens that the Italian version of that got spread around widely. And then other cultures added their own flairs, one of which is pineapple, usually connected with a salty pork product like ham or Canadian bacon.
Here in California, that’s called Hawaiian style pizza, and I didn’t get it, myself, until I tried it and found it’s a pairing that works, usually with extra mozzarella cheese.
I don’t know that it’s actually Hawaiian even in style, though my wife’s family used to like going to Hawaiian-style fast food, which involves a lot of Spam (the Hormell kind), so there… may be a connection?
My parents’ generation, in the 1970s way dug anchovies on pizza which I found way too salty. I didn’t get it then, but I don’t see much in the way of anchovies on pizza now. So collective tastes may change with time.
My parents’ generation, in the 1970s way dug anchovies on pizza which I found way too salty. I didn’t get it then, but I don’t see much in the way of anchovies on pizza now. So collective tastes may change with time.
That makes me kinda sad. I’m definitely nowhere near that generation but I love anchovies on pizza, and people not ordering anchovies on pizza just makes it harder to find places that still offer anchovies. I think it’s the best pizza topping. Although I also don’t mind Hawaiian style pizza separately either.
Anchovies are spectacular sources of umami. I use them in tomato sauces, among other things. You don’t taste the fish at all, you just get a nice round salty flavor out of them, and they just dissolve in the sauce.
I don’t know that it’s actually Hawaiian even in style
It’s not–Hawaiian pizza was invented in Canada IIRC.
Pizza is not really Italian.
It is Italian, but it’s not exclusively Italian. Turkish lahmacun (thin base, with a meaty sauce, is a good approximation of the Ur-Pizza, as are various Levantine flatbreads. One of my favorites is manaqish ma’a za’atar, which is a thin pizza-like base topped with olive oil and thyme.
Ur-pizzas would be from Ur, not the Levant.
Toasted flatbread topped with olive oil and thyme sounds delightful!
This miscarriage of justice should go all the way to the ECHR.
The European Culinary Heresy Revisionists?
NOBODY expects the European Culinary Heresy Revisionists!
What a cunt.
Tomatoes are from the New World so I hope he also refuses to put marinara sauce on his pizza. Otherwise he’s just a hypocritical dickhead.
Italian culture began in 1945. Prior to that it was something else we don’t talk about that. Also 1492 counts but not the other things that someone did. Just the discovery part. Which totally happened and it was totally a real discovery and not some dipshit getting lost. Which is why the Americas are named after an Italian. Just not that Italian. That’s how gracious he was.
While I agree with the thrust of your comment, as far as I’m aware Columbus believed the world was round, and the reason he called it the West Indies (which… should have been the East Indies, but whatever) was because he thought the earth was much smaller than it is. If the Americas hadn’t been there, he would have absolutely died in the Pacific Ocean well before reaching land.
So there’s plenty to dislike him for, but he wasn’t so much lost as just wrong about the size of the earth. I mean, I guess that makes him lost sorta. Eh. I’m just amused at the mistake.
If he believed he was somewhere he was not, I’d say he was lost. He genuinely believed he’d made it to India, to the day he died he believed that. He wasn’t just wrong about the size of the earth, he was insane about it. The relative size of the earth had been known for more than a thousand years before Columbus was born.
And corn for polenta, and potato in gnocchi and chocolate in Torta Caprese
Who says he didn’t want to put it on because it’s from the new world? I wrote my full thoughts here
Once you get past the cute framing (“pineapple on pizza: you either love it or hate it, but know Italians see it as an affront, right?”), this looks like a stalking horse to legitimise the idea of “religious freedom” rights, like those of pharmacists to refuse to sell birth control.
Yeah, I hate pineapple on pizza too, but the restaurant sells it, so the chef better fucking make it
Yeah, because people’s lives depend on pizza formulations in the same way as they do on medicine, right?
Then don’t work for the fucking restaurant that sells pineapples on pizza.
None of this is that difficult.
