- cross-posted to:
- BoycottUnitedStates@europe.pub
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- BoycottUnitedStates@europe.pub
- world@lemmy.world
You must log in or # to comment.
Both cars support oppressive dictators, but one is cheaper, supports CarPlay / Android auto, and has actually buttons for things.
I am not sure you can say BYD supports a dictator per se, more like it exists in a state capitalist country where you exist at the behest of the dictator.
Elon actively pushed and spent money to get trump elected.
deleted by creator
Pooh bear is actually starting to look less oppressive in comparison these last 7 months tbh
To be fair, the CCP has already done a lot of armed crackdowns and disappearing. They’re in the phase where people are too scared to resist.
Also quite true. They no longer need to use the threat of violence because of the implication
They’re in the phase where people are too scared to resist
Source?
Over 90% of Chinese agree that “democracy is important” and 80% agree that their country is democratic? Was this survey conducted in Taiwan and signed as “China” complying with “one China policy”?
I’ve never met any Chinese believing that their country is democratic nor that democracy is important. Quite the opposite - they usually say that China grew thanks to the lack of democracy (never calling it a dictatorship though)
Even the CCP propaganda doesn’t claim that China is the democracy but instead they show the negative sides of the democracies so that people don’t even think that it may be a good idea if China was democratic
Again, asking for any type of source or statistic over anecdotes. Your “observations” go against reputable polling and statistics of people in China.
Was this survey conducted in Taiwan and signed as “China” complying with “one China policy”?
No… in fact this was a Harvard study that started off with “Given how China is an authoritarian nightmare, how widespread is support for the government?”
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
Well, I must have been super unlucky then as I have talked about it with like 5 different Chinese met at 5 different circumstances
Yes… that is not only possible, but likely when n=5…
Please, the original claim was “Chinese people feel coerced”, which is wrong by every metric, and there is no evidence to support this claim.
Although China is certainly not immune from severe social and economic challenges, there is little evidence to support the idea that the CCP is losing legitima- cy in the eyes of its people. In fact, our survey shows that, across a wide variety of metrics, by 2016 the Chi- nese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government’s provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was complete- ly erased, and the public appeared generally support- ive of Xi Jinping’s widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years. For each of these issues, China’s poorer, non-coastal residents expressed equal (if not even greater) confidence in the actions of government than more privileged residents. As such, there was no real sign of burgeoning discontent among China’s main demographic groups, casting doubt on the idea that the country was facing a crisis of political legitimacy.
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
Let me guess: Harvard is tankie?
Theres a lot of diverse opinions with chinese people, especially travelers.
If a country is not a divisive hellscape of anger, it must be because they are too afraid to answer surveys honestly? If fear motivated answers then “democracy is impotant” might score low if “there wasn’t a genuine feeling that people are heard in China”.
Look at the massive gap in west between democracy is important and the 40% of people too distracted to understand that their governments don’t serve them. Think hard of what a nightmarish dystopia that is for a second, and then realize that part of that divisiveness is politicians telling you (and you repeating their propaganda as absolute) we need a path to war against China that will make it all better.
Trump is definitely headed in China’s direction, but MSNBC is still allowed to exist.
The fact that you can freely criticize and say whatever you want about Elon means that he is not even close to as oppressive.
You are free to say anything that doesn’t draw the ire of cops, politician, or immigration agents. Otherwise, you might get the shit kicked out of you, thrown in prison on bs charges, or deported/denied entry.
Only those who don’t move dont notice their chains.
This is what I hate. One is owned by a fuck cunt. The other is owned by china. Neither one are actually good options if you are not buying one because of their beliefs
Other options exist; you don’t have to buy either. Volkswagen Group, Audi, Renault, BMW, Fiat etc all make EVs in Europe. Hyundai & Kia also both make excellent EVs.
Buying a Tesla is a choice these days. Nobody trips and falls into Tesla ownership. And although those cheap Chinese manufacturers look mighty tempting, they’re not the only alternative out there.
Though, you don’t want to buy German either if you want to support “good”. VW, Audi, BMW, all German car mafia.
On a side note, Audi and VW are both under the same owner.
Why are German cars a bad choice? I’d rather buy German than get another Citroen tbh.
It’ll probably be based on some silly WW2-era grudge, which I find stupid.
Or Dieselgate, which while awful, despite what the headlines would have you believe, the VW group was far from the only manufacturer with illegally high diesel emissions, in fact, they were far from being the worst.
There are of course other things, VW has started trying to get into the DLC for cars bullshit that others have, but IMO that pales in comparison to Elon’s bullshit or China literally using slave labour.
E: oops, there’s some transparency issues on that Wikipedia graph. Dark mode users may struggle. Here’s the link: Diesel Emissions Scandal
Well, Germany is still actively supporting a genocide, and their car industry is probably supplying a not-insignificant amount of funds for that.
So does a lot of countries, and I am not sure if a car company has anything to do with decisions of politicians.
Oh they have a lot to do with the decisions of politicians. But more on topics of economy and how they can profit as much as possible, rather than the supply of arms. Still I swear every second politician here is getting
bribes“funds” from the car lobby.
BYD cars don’t have very many buttons either. See here. They’re tablets on wheels too. I quite dislike BYD interiors.
True, but that thing is like a fighter jet compared to Telsa’s void of emptiness. 14 controls on the wheel (and they’re labeled), real controls for drive modes, there are basic climate controls on the center console, you can manually adjust fan orientation, etc.
It’s still overly reliant on touch, but I’d easily take that over a Telsa.
Meh. I would not take either. In fact I actually didn’t. I went to a showroom and got inside their EVs and PHEVs while looking for a car. My immediate reaction after sitting in the driver’s seat of their PHEV was “I don’t want to drive this”. Same thing with the pure EV. I’ll give you the wheel, but those A/C controls next to the “shifter” are touch surfaces instead of actual buttons, and they’re just as annoying and worthless as touchscreen controls. Which is sad because those cars have fantastic stats on paper and very competitive prices. Unfortunately most EVs on the market have fucking stupid interior designs. Very often you have to choose between affordable and well designed. Not very many that are both.
In the end I decided not to buy a new car at all. Still got my 2015 Leon.
Let me guess, the stock did go up?
Today down 1.37%, but up 7.14% overall for the week.
I’m sure the free market knows what’s right /s
FSD tomorrow, amirite
Full unsupervised robotaxi while your car makes money for you as you sleep, in 6-months. Pinky promise.
Delivered via Tesla semi
And it’s totally not just a rich man’s playground.
How tf does someone with a bajillion dollars look like a pile of wet garbage bags at 54? Aren’t they all supposed to be using lotions made from aardvark assholes and incubus foreskins to maintain immortality?
You laugh, but it’s worse than you might think.
Literal vampire shit lmao.
Come on Canada, let us have cheap BYD, fuck the US economy.
nah, forget about them
let us have economical cars because we don’t need these massive expensive things just to go 5km to get a load of groceries
I’m all for fuck the US but don’t you think Canada can make it’s own cars? Being dependent on China’s economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.
While Canada making its own affordable, long range EV’s would be ideal in the long run, we literally have no canadian-owned production facilities or brands that currently can, or do produce low or mid end cars, and Canada seems to have no interest in subsidising those.
Which means, in the short run, I want a vehicle I can afford to buy that doesn’t give me range anxiety, and the only reason I can’t is because Canada literally doubled the price of the cars that currently exist that fit my requirements because the US asked them to.
Hydro Quebec invented BYD’s battery technology, the only reason they licensed it to BYD in the first place is nobody else was going to do anything with it.
I’m genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy. It’s authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don’t have to choose the lesser evil.
Why would I give a fucking shit? Every new car is a piece of shit spy ware device that collects and sells your data. Honestly, I’d rather china have my data than a fucking capitalist company or America. At least china won’t do anything to me, our government is more of a threat to the average American than china is.
What a defeatist take.
Every new car is a piece of shit spy ware device that collects and sells your data
Fuck me, it has to be sad living in this paranoid state…
I’d rather china have my data than a fucking capitalist company or America
Ignorance at it’s best. You’d rather support the state that is committing literal genocide than capitalism.
Sure, capitalism is cancer and sucks, but I don’t think it’s worse than genocide, mate.
Ignorance is bliss I guess? New cars are pretty much computers on wheels that collect data. This is not a secret or anything.
I mean, fuck China and the genocide of the Uighur. It’s terrible. But I’m pretty confident that capitalism killed a whole lot more people throughout history.
New cars are pretty much computers on wheels that collect data
There’s a difference between what telemetry a German car gathers, and what a Chinese car gathers. And where is it sent.
The data from EU companies is anonymised and private. The data from Chinese companies is always available to their government.
I mean, fuck China and the genocide of the Uighur. It’s terrible. But I’m pretty confident that capitalism killed a whole lot more people throughout history
Ah, I guess it’s fine then. Since throughout history more people died because of capitalist policies, then we can support China with a clear conscience!
I do 100% agree with this, though:
Ignorance is bliss I guess?
The data from EU companies is anonymised and private. The data from Chinese companies is always available to their government.
Just trust me bro, the EU respects you but the Chinese are out to get you. The same EU that still has a special trade agreement with the genocidal Zionists, and is their biggest trading partner. The same continent that colonized and enslaved much of the rest of the world for centuries.Those are the good guys that you should implicitly trust, no proof needed you paranoid dummy. The red Chinese, they’re the scary ones. Fear them.
Haha, tell that VW who stored positional data with full precision against their own rules (the CCC Chaos computer Club did a good presentation about this).
Unfortunately they are all bad. Nissan and Renault did pretty badly on privacy (something about recording sexual activity?)
“though researchers identified Renault as the least problematic.”
Renault was found to be the least problematic and this was one point for me to buy a Renault. Did not consent to data collection as I bought it (used). I am not consenting in the cars systems and I dont use the cloud service. Installed OVMS and called it a day…
You are right - I stand corrected.
Or… live in a place or advocate for a place where spyware cars arent a necessity for simply existing…
When something is 100% required for life, someone WILL exploit it
Where is that?
Hey, man, I’m right there with you. I’m not planning on buying a new car unless I’m 100% confident I can disable or remove all of its networking and spyware services. I’m just stating that it’s stupid that the average American will buy a new car and then say this shit about these cars just because they’re Chinese.
Honestly a Chinese car spying on you probably has less negative impact on your life vs any other brand that does business with American companies, of course assuming you yourself are american and live in America.
Why would someone who doesn’t live in China give a shit about Chinese spyware, especially when the alternative is any of the big US/EU manufacturers who happily hand your information to your own government?
China can’t do shit to yall. I’d include myself in there, but I quite enjoyed my time in China and intend to return, so Chinese spyware could actually be a threat to me.
Even ignoring that horrendously simple minded reason for not caring about privacy…
You’d still support the CCP lol
Yes? They’ve lifted a billion people out of poverty, produce more green energy than the rest of the world combined, helped fight the Japanese in WWII, I might have my criticisms of the CPC, particularly regarding their lack of support for LGBT+, allowing Shanghai to fuck over zero covid until it had to be abandoned, and some really dumb laws, overall I have to support them because we’ve seen what happens when liberalism triumphs over communism. If you’re lucky, your entire populace is immiserated and you get decades of rightwing dictators robbing the populace blind, see the former USSR, If your not, anyone who isn’t right of Reagan is shot, see Korea and Indonesia.
deleted by creator
when compared with elon’s nazi spyware?
There are more than 2 options here.
We’re in a thread that directly compares Tesla and BYD. Thankfully there are other EV manufacturers.
deleted by creator
Can always count on slurs from people who imagine tankies behind every rock.
Lemmy is weird. As long as you’re on the dogpile against the current “big bad” of the week, you’re good to go. Fuck Tesla? Then let’s buy Chinese products.
It’s insane, but it’s where we are.
It’s authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don’t have to choose the lesser evil.
Let’s not forget that they are actively committing genocide against the Uighur. I don’t think they are the “lesser evil”.
Or still actively occupy Tibet, how conveniently everyone forgot that but yay a slightly cheaper car!
What, do you want to bring back the theocratic, slave-owning Lamas? I haven’t been to Tibet to as them, but I really doubt the average person wants what you seem to want for them.
Because Tibet never got the chance to transition to a modern country. FYI China invaded in 1950 Oct 6th - at that time big chunk of the world was still theocratic, autocratic and slave owning.
And during the 1950s, the US trained the former slaves owners, gave them weapons, then airdropped them into Tibet to lead an uprising, they were lynched by their former slaves, but even today is still angling to install the Dali Lama as the head of state.
If China said “yall are on your own”, do you think the US would stop doing what it is currently doing, giving money, weapons (when applicable), and diplomatic support to reactionaries who want to return to those days?
Or do you think they would suffer an immediate economic recession without China funding their development?
Country: is literally invaded
Some dude online: but US could have invaded too in some parallel universe!Lmao
They werent invaded, they were liberated. They were invaded by their former masters, with US backing in the 50s.
I’m genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy
You are actually genuinely surprised… people on lemmy like something from china? I guess you know not a lot about lemmy lol.
Here’s a hint: A lot of people on lemmy love china, especially the people who created it, and even moreso the people who populated it in its first days. You should look into lemmy a bit more if that’s genuinely surprising to you.
Do you carry a cell phone?
Lemmy has always been retarded like that.
Right right, of course that’s true, and it’s also true that many people have requirements that can only be met by a few vehicles on the market.
deleted by creator
I pick the cheapest.
Not one more penny for this Nazi!
My commute is about 20 miles a day. Charging level 1 at work is enough unless I go out on the weekend. My Nissan Leaf has been good enough for me. And it is neither Tesla nor Chinese.
My only gripe with that car is that it looks really bland. Then again I am no James Dean where I sit with two kids seats with the back full of shopping
I think it’s a good looking car. My problem with it is chademo. It’s unfortunately the betamax of plugs.
Damn good car too. My bro rocked one for years, deceptively large inside. Quarterly he’d drive about 1000km in it which I think was mad but made it work, 80km at a time!!!
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they’re selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I’m immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
You should learn about US fossil fuel subsidies. The US alone pumps almost 800 billion/yr into subsidising the industry. Total subsidies worldwide are around 7 trillion/yr.
China tossing 40 Billion/yr into EV/battery subsidies is basically pocket change.
I have no interest in a pissing match over which country is the worst in the world, I am discussing why China is dominating the EV market in Europe.
China spending 1/20 of what the US does to subsidize cars isn’t relevant? Sure thing buddy.
The whole point of all of these “china is only dominating in EV sales due to subsidies” comments is to throw shade on China’s impressive progress in clean tech. A contrast of their subsidies vs other countries in the same space, motor vehicles, is entirely relevant.
US fossil fuel subsidies are relevant to China dominating the electric vehicle market in Europe? Sure thing buddy.
I believe main goal of China investing in green tech is to show middle finger to oil and gas producers. China has virtually none of both oil and gas and so is reliant on import. With mostly green cars and electricity from water, sun and wind, they will have much, much better leverage in global say.
Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
LOOOOOLOLOLOL have you looked at China’s greenhouse gas contributions lately? They don’t give a fuck about the climate, they’re just trying to drive other countries out of the market.
Chinese carbon emissions may have peaked this year and they’ve deployed more renewables than the rest of the world combined.
That’s because they’re also heavily subsidizing that industry out of self-interest. That’s the “emerging markets” I mentioned above.
Which sounds like a good idea for everybody. Maybe other countries should do the same thing.
I’m no fan of West Taiwan but they’re doing a lot more to decarbonize than most other major economies.
Like always, it’s a great idea, right up until China jacks up the prices after they’ve driven out all the competition and common people can’t buy them anymore.
Then maybe western companies can finally compete with them despite being ruled by obligate capitalists.
Oh no, a country acts out of self-interest! A concept that is completely foreign to the West 😱 At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result. What are the coeffects of the US defending their self-interests? Rise in facism? Another genocide?
You’re moving the goalposts. You were literally thanking Xi for “saving the climate”.
Once again, I am not having a pissing match about which country is better, I am discussing the success of electric vehicles from China.
Not really? Still saving the climate 🤔
They are subsiding the deployment of clean energy sources?
Good for them. And good for the world.
Sure, it’s great for everyone, right up until it’s not anymore because they’ve erased the competition and then jacked up the prices to the point that common people can’t afford them, and further driven down workers’ wages in the process.
Is no one else familiar with the concept of Predatory Pricing?
As always - well under what USA is putting into the atmosphere. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita
That’s per Capita, China has like 30 billion more citizens.
Correct and correct.
So then you agree you were wrong…?
No. Your argument is for fools. The argument that a country with a population of 345 million produces less carbon dioxide to pollute the planet’s atmosphere with than a country of 1.42 billion people is nonsense and contributes nothing to any conversation at all. The per capita comparison is what matters, but it’s not used by the people that just really want us to believe “China == bad”. Seems like they’re successful at it based on this interaction, sadly.
They also manufacture the rest of the world’s shit. So all in all they’re pretty clean for how big they are.
Maybe YOU should give another look at those figures.
Specially the ones relative to the % of new renewables put into production during the last years.
Doesn’t the EU balance it out with tariffs?
Those cheap BYDs ain’t all that cheap here
Now if EU increased subsidies for domestic EV production, domestic solar panel production, etc… We could really have something great.
Doesn’t the EU balance it out with tariffs?
No.
Those cheap BYDs ain’t all that cheap here
Yes they are.
Now if EU increased subsidies for domestic EV production, domestic solar panel production, etc… We could really have something great.
Truth there.
Hmm
In October 2024, the EU increased tariffs on Chinese-built EVs, including 17% on those made by BYD and 35.3% for SAIC, on top of its standard car import duty.
Also my friend in the middle east was excited for the BYD Dolphin (I think) for its price and it was… Nearly twice as much here when I looked it up?
BYDs seem cheap because they make budget EVs. Mercedes, Audi, etc, do not.
No one is denying that the tariffs exist. I’m denying that it “balances out”. BYD is still way cheaper than comparable EVs.
BYDs seem cheap because they make budget EVs. Mercedes, Audi, etc, do not.
Mercedes, Audi, etc. are established several decade old prestigious brands that don’t need rock bottom prices to gain market share.
BYDs don’t “seem” cheap. They are cheap.
Yes, they’re cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD’s own high end models are expensive too. They don’t sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.
Yes, they’re cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles.
No they’re not. They’re cheap because they’re subsidized.
But they’re not cheap after the tariffs. Yes, cheaper than German luxury cars, but not cheaper than comparable cars.
“In Europe”
Sorry, did you have a question?
His point is, da fuck does chinese market have to do with BYD tripling it’s sales in Europe.
Europe has massive tariffs on chinese EVs and they are competitively priced with other brands BYD not selling because they are 30% cheaper in Europe
No one is talking about the Chinese market…
You know I can quote you right?
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them
This is what prompted the first reply to quote the title “in Europe”, hope this helps, have a nice day.
…you know that comment has zero reference to the Chinese market, right? You realize the CCP can subsidize the construction of vehicles that are exported out of China, right?
Then you worded it poorly, also doesn’t matter if it’s subsidized since as I said, they are hit by tarrifs in the EU so they don’t undercut the market, but since you seem to be unable to show complex thought processes I am done with this conversation.
Ps. nice job with your totally not obvious downvoting with your alt account.
Corporations are not as self-sufficient as they claim to be.
Relevance?
US made tesla what it is with a lot of state aid and it still failed.
China won.
You tried to paint it as if only china provides subsidies as some sort of gotcha.
US made tesla what it is with a lot of state aid and it still failed.
LOL what? What makes you say Tesla “failed”? They’re an incredibly large and profitable company.
You tried to paint it as if only china provides subsidies as some sort of gotcha.
I did no such thing. You are trying to paint what I said that way as some sort of gotcha. Many countries have EV subsidies. None of them compare to that of those from the CCP.
The US, for example, has paid approx. $1B in clean vehicle tax credits for electric and hybrid vehicles originating from around the world. China? $230B.
Removed by mod
Yeah, I’m not engaging with someone who deals in personal insults and bad faith arguments. Goodbye.
Said a guy making up fake numbers to try to win an online argument.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
which basically forces people to buy them
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don’t know what you’re talking about, and “everyone’s a tankie” for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
And is even cheaper if someone else pay 30% of what you need to spend to build a car. So you can sell the car 30% less than others and still make a profit (maybe).
It is not a mystery that CCP subsidizes a lot of domestic EVs (among other things like solar panel) to become the dominant player in the market.
What would be interesting to see is what will happen after they become the dominant player.It is not a mystery how propaganda gets started.
Steel is 1/3 the price as US. Alumnium 1/2. Markets with Futures trading. There’s over 300 car companies in China. They are not all directly subsidized. There is state involved ownership (from factory building) in Steel, but they make money at market prices.
There is state involved ownership (from factory building) in Steel, but they make money at market prices.
They make money because they can write off 30% of the cost of the car being paid from someone else, in one form or another.
Chinese car factories DO NOT get a special discount on steel. You can’t just keep repeating that without source that is not also just baseless repeating of same lie.
My source is “Il sole 24 ore”, a respected finalcial newspaper in Italy.
But I am not saying the Chinese car factory get a special discount on steel. What I am saying, based on the investigation from the newspaper I cited, is that CCP pay 20 to 30 % of the total cost to build a car.
Now your sources.
Also it’s much easier to triple a small number than a big one.
Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.
in 2024 in the west they were falling still. Europe stats are strong for all EVs. Should not be Tesla vs BYD. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/07/29/eu-overtakes-the-rest-of-the-world-except-china-in-ev-adoption/ 29% growth in first half of the year, and even higher in July. BEVs+Hybrids is almost 60% of sales. PHEV+BEV 24%, which is much higher than US, though behind China. Total car sales up, while ICE sales down.
European brands doing well. I don’t know the prices of every model, but they have to be providing value to be doing so well.
Most of my car friends won’t touch an EV still here in the UK because the infrastructure isn’t good enough, and those same friends won’t touch a Chinese car either. Only a few have tried Tesla and all have got rid. Currently in the UK if you are a company car person you’d be mad not to get an EV as they are subsidised so much, but equally mad to get one as your only personal car as the charging network is shocking still. When here it is MORE expensive to charge an EV whilst out and about than fuel a petrol car something is seriously wrong
EVs are better cars, and most people are happy with them to get another EV in future. You do need private charging solutions to make it cheaper/convenient, and home solar makes it even better economics. Public charging is something you should plan to use a handful of times per year.
Can’t charge at home here and no public chargers nearby either…
I’m guessing you are in the US as here in the UK more are against EVs than for them because charging costs out and about are higher than ICE cars and Teslas are pretty much hated, and they have by far and away the best charging network. My wife is disabled and believe me having an EV is way harder then because even silly things like the public chargers being as far away from service stations and amenities means it is counter-productive. We will never be able to charge at our current home either - it is banned in the contract
I don’t get how a company is losing this much in multiple countries yet is still operating?
Like if they can lose this much and still be operating and investments not tanking, would it follow that they can pay better wages and benefits?
The US is corrupt enough at this point the only thing massive corporations have to do to survive is be massive.
Many companies that never even have turned a consistent profit are major players in the US economy.
The idea of valuing actual market competition is a distraction conservatives point to as a cool aesthetic and it has little to do with the economic reality of the US. So long as the right people are in power a dictatorship is totally acceptable to conservatives by and large and the inevitable end result of that as we are seeing are stunning displays of incompetency at the highest levels of power.
in US the patriotism is injected into a brand. Way more money than brains.
Yeah go figure we keep on pumping money into oil companies, when solar and batteries are tariffed. Easy to set why Trump has gone bankrupt so many times.
We even have electric companies actively trying to deter home solar installs with legislation, while other counties are embracing a VPP model.
Last I checked years ago, they sold their carbon credits for a whole lot of money whenever they earned them.
Yeah Tesla only incidentally makes cars. Their accrual business is being a Carbon Credits dealer. Which just goes to show that the whole concept of carbon credits is nonsense. Climate change can’t be solved by market mechanisms
If the problem we want to solve is how to consolidate wealth and power in a few private hands the fastest, the unregulated free markets is the solution.
Hell yeah
I bought byd stock. It keeps going down. I will never understand investing
And I’ve been holding tesla for years and it goes up even when news is shit. I don’t get it either
It’s just too complex for you. You’ll never understand things like regression charts, Fibonacci patterns and crime
You never buy an individual firm stock unless you have insider knowledge.
Markets can stay irrational longer than you and I can stay solvent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Auto
Realistically their sales in Europe are a statistical noise.
Chinese indexes/etfs are mostly good for its stability, overall it doesnt grow as much as other markets, but it tends not to drop as much either.
Quick Elon, buy the President of Europe! /s
If he could be would try
Any non-cunts in the EV manufacturing space? Or is that a prerequisite?
I have a Chevy Bolt EUV. Maybe it’s still cunty. But I’m pretty sure it better than China spyware or a Nazi.
Hyundai has been pretty good. And I only hear good things about Rivian and Lucid.
Tesla will be bankrupt in 2 years.
what a coincidence, so will i
I don’t think Musk much cares or ever did. The goal was to milk tesla for every last dime.
He didn’t care so much he bawled on trump’s shoulder and got him to buy one.
That was for show. And not to fix the underlying problems. If he cared, he would actually find and fix the problems.
deleted by creator
just look how he treated Twitter once he bought it. He cares…. just about the wrong shit.
Because he’s unstable and undiagnosed and in denial.
And yet somehow he seems to legitimately think that’s how you do business.
Perhaps it’s because America coddles everything under the capitalist label so he doesn’t have to do business like he has to care about it succeeding or face maybe actions have consequences. And he has too many millions to have to count anything else as a success.just worries about ppl being ‘meanies’
The system makes it so that the rich fail at failing.
Enablism and denial all the way down.
