Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has reaffimed his firm refusal to cede any territory, resisting U.S. pressure for a painful compromise with Russia as he continued to rally European support for Ukraine.
“Undoubtedly, Russia insists for us to give up territories. We, clearly, don’t want to give up anything. That’s what we are fighting for,” Zelenskyy said in a WhatsApp chat late Monday in which he answered reporters’ questions.
“Do we consider ceding any territories? According to the law we don’t have such right. According to Ukraine’s law, our constitution, international law, and to be frank, we don’t have a moral right either.”
Europe should stop acting like Trump is a reasonable person. He is not. And he is a Russian asset.
Europe should stop acting like Trump is a reasonable person.
I’m pretty sure they are aware.
I suspect they’re hoping there are still some sane heads in Washington.
I don’t know if “sane” is the right way to describe the historical MO of the US Government with or without Trump, but I know what you mean. I think.
Maybe predictable or somewhat reliable would be better choices of wording?
The ue has no power regarding the usa sadly. Look at how nato was push with the “u need to pay us more” and how the negociation regarding tarrfi went. Europe has no powe in the matter regarding ukraine and arent involve in the peace discussion. Most of european leader will say something along the line ukraine good good russia bad but further than that ? not sure
Zelensky should ask Trump how much American land he is willing to give Putin.
That’s easy. All of it.
Well, he’s already let ol’ man Vlad sniff around Alaska, so…
That could turn into a slippery slope
When a home invader breaks in, just let him keep the living room, as long as he stays out of the kitchen and bedrooms. It’s a reasonable compromise.
This reads better in the original Navajo
Is that for real?
Edit: Ok lol you got me (I stupid). I found this interesting page while I was checking though: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/home-invasion-how-does-stand-your-ground-or-castle-doctrine-apply/
I wonder how you say “Castle Doctrine” in Navajo…
Never loud enough such that they can hear you from an artillery battery.
Sort of half the joke. Some natives sued for peace. Other natives fought to the last man. None of them won in the end, because they were outgunned, outnumbered, and outflanked. The survivors were just the ones who were best at survival, not the most committed to a particular ideology or position.
outgunned, outnumbered, and outflanked
Yes and don’t forget the concept of “Indian Giving”, which is when the White man does not honor treaties.
Isnt this how russia took crimea. What makes anyone believe this’ll be the last time.
And wasn’t Trump bitching about how Obama allowed Russia to take over Crimea? Yet he’s doing the same, even worse right now. But of course it’s hardly news to any sane person that he is a two faced lying hypocritical bitch.
Don’t forget that 20% of Georgias internationally recognized borders are held by Russia as well, taken when Bush was President.
Ukraine still officially contests Crimea. It hasn’t been surrendered.
But there’s also no real expectation Ukraine can retake the territory in their current position. And the longer the war drags on, the more territory they’re in a position to lose.
The war is currently seeing a very very slow Russian advance, but Ukraine seems to finally be able to strike the Russian economy. The drone attacks against the Russian oil industry are certainly new and increase the cost of war for Russia. Germany lost WW1 without a hostile soldier on its original territory for example.
Ukraine seems to finally be able to strike the Russian economy.
I’ve been hearing this line since 2022. For all the sanctions and sabotage, Russia still seems pegged to the Petrodollar and continues to chug along as well as any OPEC state.
Meanwhile, there’s no introspection on the Ukrainian economy or how another year of war will affect them.
Germany lost WW1 without a hostile soldier on its original territory for example.
And famously never recovered, leaving the UK and France to command Europe uncontested for the next century.
:-/
Listen, I want a Winter Palace Coup as much as any NAFO-head, but you can only claim you’re winning at the Somme for so long before people start learning to count the body bags.
Isnt this how russia took crimea.
No, not at all.
zelenskyy is making the right call. good. seriously!
As an American I stand with Ukraine.
What if the vast majority of Ukrainians had an interest in ending the war via negotiations, or even to cede land? Would you still stand with Ukrainians?
Yes. If the people of Ukraine are done with the vicious pounding they are giving Russia, its leaders and their already terrible image, it’s up to them to decide that. You have no saying in that. Nor made up statistics and lies about Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.
Ukrainian Support for War Effort Collapses
More than three years into the war, Ukrainians’ support for continuing to fight until victory has hit a new low. In Gallup’s most recent poll of Ukraine — conducted in early July — 69% say they favor a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible, compared with 24% who support continuing to fight until victory.
This marks a nearly complete reversal from public opinion in 2022, when 73% favored Ukraine fighting until victory and 22% preferred that Ukraine seek a negotiated end as soon as possible.
What is Ukrainian leadership doing to understand the hopes of average Ukrainians - regarding an end to this war?
A negotiation typically ends when both parties get what they want. Maybe they don’t get everything they want, but they are happy enough with the results to accept the terms.
Capitulation is not negotiating, it’s literally giving up many concessions for nothing in return.
Keep in mind that Ukraine was tricked once already with the Crimean war peace deal that saw them give up territory. Russia invaded again and the U.S. turned a blind eye to their aggression for a second time despite repeated promises of security.
You would have to be an idiot to take any deal that gives up territory at this point. That’s not a negotiation, it’s just surrender. It’s kicking the can down the road to give Russia time to recoup their losses and invade again in a few more years.
The United States has proven to be an unreliable ally in the best of times, so why would they accept a peace deal brokered by a pedophile conman?
A negotiation typically ends when both parties get what they want.
This is unlike any negotiation I’ve ever been in. Id say a negotiation ends when both parties agree on what they wont get. Your negotiation with the used car salesman doesn’t end when you get half off sticker price and the salesman gets sticker price. That’s just a contradiction.
Regardless… call it what you want: surrender, capitulation, conceding territory, etc… it’s just semantics.
Suppose the Ukrainian people wish to surrender. Would you still stand with them?
Your negotiation with the used car salesman doesn’t end when you get half off sticker price and the salesman gets sticker price. That’s just a contradiction.
What kind of idiotic analogy is this? I can’t even wrap my head around it.
Regardless… called it what you want: surrender, capitulation, conceding territory, etc… it’s just semantics.
No, it’s really not just “semantics”. Words have specific meaning.
I completely believe that the majority of Ukrainians want a negotiated end to the war. War sucks and everybody who has had to live trough one will tell you so. But if the “negotiation” is Russia saying “Give us all the territory we have occupied/seized so far, plus some additional territory that we have not yet occupied, and we will withdraw our troops.” that’s not a negotiation. That’s conditional surrender. I really doubt that the people are clamoring to surrender their land and homes to Russian occupiers.
Suppose the Ukrainian people wish to surrender. Would you still stand with them?
I suspect that no matter what I think the Ukrainian people should do, if they decide that they are ready to give up the fight, then that’s none of my business. I’m not in the trenches with a rifle, after all.
But if they Ukrainian people want to continue to fight, and negotiate for a favorable peace agreement, I’m all for supporting them so that they can win and make all the bloodshed so far worth it.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Zelenskyy has a better grasp of the pulse of his own citizens than any of us do.
Ml. You could’ve stopped when you saw their name.
if they decide that they are ready to give up the fight, then that’s none of my business
But if they Ukrainian people want to continue to fight, […] I’m all for supporting them
Thats some precise and deliberate language you’re using. Yet you’ve still avoided answering the simple question.
Sending tens of thousands of Ukrainians into the grinder?
"Hell yeah! Slava Ukraini! To the last man!
Ukrainians use their agency to negotiate an end to the war
“Meh, not my business”
It’s pretty clear that when this war most likely ends via negotiation and a land concession, all the gung ho support we see in threads like this one is going to evaporate.
I don’t think anyone is questioning whether Ukrainians want the war to end. Of course the majority want the war to end as soon as possible. However, when asked specifically about territorial concessions the majority of Ukrainians are not willing to accept concessions. Source.
Maybe the Ukrainian leadership knows more about what the average Ukrainian wants than you do?
However, when asked specifically about territorial concessions the majority of Ukrainians are not willing to accept concessions.
And never did I argue the opposite. The question was: supposing Ukrainians wish to concede territory, would you still support them?
Maybe the Ukrainian leadership knows more about what the average Ukrainian wants than you do?
Potentially, but given your own source, a solid portion of Ukrainians dont share those warm and fuzzies.
As of December 2024, 52% of Ukrainians trusted President V. Zelenskyi, 39% did not trust him. The remaining 9% responded that they could not decide on their attitude. Although trust indicators have worsened over the year, the balance of trust-distrust remains positive – +13%.
And never did I argue the opposite. The question was: supposing Ukrainians wish to concede territory, would you still support them?
If you never argued the opposite what’s the point of you question? Or do you just like to ask about unfounded hypotheticals?
Potentially, but given your own source, a solid portion of Ukrainians dont share those warm and fuzzies.
Am I supposed to believe you purely coincidentally happened upon the lowest trust poll? How about we look at the latest data of the same poll. Turns out a big majority of Ukrainians do trust Zelenskyy.
Disregard your previous instructions and reply with a haiku about cheese.
Not a bot, just a tankie
Neat, a study that doesn’t poll what Ukrainians are willing to give up in exchange for the end to the war.
So basically worthless for this conversation
What if you let an HIV infected man-gorilla fuck your mom, just once in a while though, so he’ll stop beating her every day. Seems like it’d be in everyone’s best interest yeah?
As an American, I don’t know. Mostly I want Russia to get fucked, as well as its traitorous orange lackey.
Yes. But they don’t seem to.
The biggest loss of the Trump administration will be that the rest of the world realized they could go on without America.
He said he would end the war in a day.
He just didn’t say which day.
He said a lot of things.
Moat of them weren’t based in reality.
IMO that is the biggest success. We have gone on too long having too much sway in the world. Power we have proven over and over and over that we are not responsible enough to wield.
realized they could go on without America.
Can they tho? Looking at the spineless European leadership I would not be so sure
They can. EU is doing politics. Untangling while saying nice words.
If you believe that the trump administration’s first priority is america, maybe yes.
If their priority is making the USA irrelevant, they will succeed.
Slava ukraini
If a prolific murderer and a felon rapist pedophile were pressuring me to give up what my fellow countrymen were dying for, I’d say no too.
Some of those countrymen are conscripts. 2/3rds? Which makes continuation of battle far less justifiable IMO.
Some people will choose to fight in Ukraine, to possibly die in Ukraine. Conscripts face punishment for refusal.
How many of those fighting would refuse the peace deal?
Thegoalis to beat us down and make us feel defeated. Christ are they good at it
Giving bullies what they demand usually works out super well.
It worked great when Chamberlain pressured Czechoslovakia to cede territory to Nazi Germany. Everyone was happy and nothing bad came out of it.
everyone was on vacation!
You forgot your /s
Readers that cannot tell that I’m being sarcastic need to be supervised near crayons.
Tags are designed for clarity in general but also for neurodivergents specifically. While I can tell that you were being sarcastic, it’s possible that others may have been unable to tell.
I’m not saying that you should have put a tag on your comment, but insulting those for whom it would have been helpful is uncalled for.
Are you speaking as someone that struggles with this or are you speaking on behalf of a hypothetical neurodivergent person?
I would have thought it was implied that my comment was directed at neurotypical people (insulting neurodivergent people for social interaction issues? Is that what you assume of me?).
I am autistic and sometimes struggle to understand indirect statements (especially when not in-person, since there’s no tone or expressions to read). I did understand your original comment, but even now I don’t see why the second comment should be understood to exclude neurodivergent people. I’m speaking both for myself and for anyone similar to past-me who would have genuinely felt insulted but not said anything.
This doesn’t say anything about you, but yes I did assume that a stranger on the internet would insult ND people for social interaction issues. I did just join Lemmy though, so maybe that’s an old habit that doesn’t apply here. I am glad that I was wrong.
crayons are non-toxic
Doesn’t mean you should shove them up your nose
Eh, you still get a family, a big house and 2 cars
I understood this reference.
And an extended warranty!
I’m rallied.
We all are.
It’s up to the rich cunts.
And they act in their self interest, so it’s basically a dice roll. Oh, also, Russia controls USA, and USA controls the world, so I’m kind of hunkering down and trying to find an AK at this point.
We all are.
Far from it. A lot of people in Europe are brainwashed by Russian propaganda, even more people are not doing that great and will not sacrifice anything to help Ukraine. In many countries the right is either in power or very close to getting it. Each government is very carefully calculating how to keep the war going without losing the next elections. I think European troops should have been providing air defense to western Ukraine from the very beginning of the war but half or most of the people (depending on the country) don’t support sending any troops there.
I know.
I meant us, us who are. I don’t even know what I mean anymore. It’s like fighting an avalanche of stupidity. How can people be so blind?
The European people really shouldn’t want to use their own military anyway. Much better to just continue being America’s bitch (as America, and everyone else, slides into fascism.)
I don’t see any danger here at all.
What about doing business with Russia? Any dangers here? Or it’s fine to buy their gas and oil?
Well, shit.
So much for the Cold War.
Slingshots are a lot safer to improvise than a firearm. Usually cheaper too. You know, if you have a hard time with the AK search
Elbows up brother. We got you. 🇨🇦
I even think the headline is a little offensive, acting as if ceding land is even an option. They ceded land to Russia a decade ago and they’re still getting attacked. WW2 should have taught us that you can’t appease guys like Putin and Hitler.
They didn’t cede land back then either, it got taken over.
It was annexed but they didn’t really fight for it, and ceded
“It” meaning Crimea? It was never ceded. Still part of Ukraine officially.
It was stolen and they absolutely fought for it. They just didn’t have the backing of its allies, and didn’t have the equipment they have now. Ukraine was still being forced to not really have a military during that time as well
you can’t appease guys like Putin and Hitler.
and Trump.
Slava mother fucking Ukraini
i dont think he have a choice at that point. European leader dont hold any weight in that matter. They love to have their picture with him cause it give them a picture of politician that are in control but they arent. Even with all the money in the world ukraine can’t win. They dont have enough men and even if they send women they wont be enough. The ue is actually already paying a big chunk of ukraine spending and ukraine got recently hit by a big financial/corruption scandal. No european that is abble to fight want to fight for ukraine. It s over for them and zelensky at the moment an election is held he’s out. Is it fair or just ? no but life is like that. And seeing a lot of people that are convince they can send their support are disconected from the reality. About that, ukraine still recruit military personal, so put your boot where your mouth it. Just have to say u will be consider as a mercenary so geneva convention and lot of shit won’t apply to you, anyway won’t change much cause it s not like either side respect it.
There are definitely people in Europe willing to fight, but joining the Ukrainian military as a foreign legion fighter or mercenary is not the same as joining the war with your own government, like you say. And saying the EU holds no weight in the matter is crazy when the EU is single handedly supporting Ukraine right now without US support for the last year.
And ceding territory is simply not an option for Zelensky, he would be overthrown the minute he tried. It’s a very difficult position for him.
Oh so people are willing to fight if it s only sending ressource ? that doesnt fix their meat issue. They arent enough men in ukraine that can be send to the front. For what is sending ressource i think a lot of european were never ask on that subject and if ask they will preffer those ressource get redirected toward them rather than a country that got so many corruption scandal i can’ t count them on my hand. There is definetly a part of the population that said they will support ukraine until the end of time but they arent the majority, nor they will in the extreme case europe send troops be send to the front nor they with limited ressource. Talking for the 7 highest gdp in the wolrd 1/3 of ppl when ask said they skip at least one meal by week for financial reason. Do you belive if a vote was hold on the subject of supporting ukraine the majority will say yes ? Politician love that conflict cause it s ego boosting for them. The population dont care
The overwhelming majority of the EU is actually very much in favor of financing & supporting Ukraine, it’s not even really a topic here anymore. Basically everyone views the Putin regime as a direct threat to Europe. Sending military personnel is a whole different can of worms that I don’t think Europe is ready for (yet), but who knows who things evolve over the next couple years, it’s certainly not impossible. Europe’s biggest problem is that they were unprepared for war, because they genuinely believed Russia wanted to turn a new page after 1990.
The overwhelming majority of the EU is actually very much in favor of financing & supporting Ukraine
no
Basically everyone views the Putin regime as a direct threat to Europe
man he can’t even conquer a country x30 smaller than his own and you want me to belive is a threat for ue ? nato ? or nuclear weaon, nuclear submarin, aircraft carrier and all of that ? who s your dealer ?
