- cross-posted to:
- liberalgunowners@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- liberalgunowners@lemmy.world
A masked guy breaks down your door w/o an Article III warrant absent exigent circumstances? Yeah, I’d agree. Trick will be that pressing the murder charge would be federal since a federal agent dies in the line of official work (though illegal), which would give the president grounds to push for death.
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This is the exact response that should have been proclaimed 8 months ago. Fuck this stupid goddamn fucking country full of sister-fuckers.
Why should that have been proclaimed 8 months ago when the memo came out this week?
Dems had to focus group and poll test it then lawyer check it.
Also have to run it by a few donors and the leadership in Tel Aviv to get instructions. Whatever happens, maintaining and expanding funding comes before literally everything else.
People been getting snatched up by masked men for that long, the memo has nothing to do with it.
Trick will be that pressing the murder charge would be federal since a federal agent dies in the line of official work (though illegal), which would give the president grounds to push for death.
Federal prosecutors are having a real tough time getting juries to convict, and sometimes even indict, citizens accused of assaulting ICE and CBP agents. They have 30 cases against Chicago residents, and so far they’re 0 for 15. They couldn’t get a felony indictment for the sandwich-throwing guy in DC, so they went for a misdemeanor; he was aquitted despite clearly having done it. It is not at all clear to me that the feds could get a conviction for killing someone during what is, legally, a home invasion.
(This is not an incitement of violence towards any federal agents, nor am I advocating for anyone to break any state or federal laws. To any FBI agents reading this, I think you’re very smart and handsome.)
I’m willing to bet large this DOJ has lost more cases than any other administration previously. It’s hilarious.
They had this grand plan to weaponize the DOJ, but no one stopped to ask, “wait, what if everyone on the jury fucking hates us?”
This is exactly why juries exist. Jury nullification isn’t a loophole or a trick. It’s a built-in defense against unjust laws and corrupted executive and judicial officials.
I don’t think any of the cases have been jury nullification, they keep bringing unreasonable charges and the jury doesn’t buy it.
they keep bringing unreasonable charges and the jury doesn’t buy it.
There’s a term for that, and the term is “jury nullification”.
That’s jury nullification. The sandwich guy is a perfect example.
By the letter of the law, he did commit assault. Nobody denies what he did, but the jury decided it was unreasonable.
Not disagreeing with you, but a misdemeanour for throwing a sandwich at someone is a joke.
True, but then again, there was that tow truck driver in LA who towed that ICE car, with flashing police lights, in the middle of a stop. I can’t imagine someone getting away with that if it had been a normal LAPD stop.
Where have all the “stand yer ground” people been at?
… Dude sorry to break it to you, but they work for ICE
Good news is the people that talk about it like that can’t aim for shit.
A ton of gun buying not a whole lot of gun shooting typically
can’t aim for shit.
which means they will just kill someone else than they aimed for. not sure if it is a win.
I mean, it’s not a win by any means, but if I have to be in a gunfight with people, them not being able to hit their intended target is a massive plus.
I’m not choosing for them to fire. I’ll take all the plus I can get.
ok, that’s fair point
Supporting ICE ready to shoot Americans for fighting back against them.
You understand that the memo was released this week, ya?
This is more of a Castle Doctrine issue. We’re at home.
Can’t stand your ground if you’re not at home.
Actually, I’m pretty sure you can depending on the state. Take Zimmerman for example.
Or that one kid, rittenhouse, who put himself into the situation to kill someone.
They are wearing masks in Minnesota, not walking around their neighborhood
Well, you know, those “stand your ground” people only think that that freedom should belong to them.
The problem is, if you fire at a kidnapper who breaks down your door they will call back up and they aren’t going to stop until you’re dead.
Fuck ICE.
If they’re kicking down my door, I’m fucked either way. Might as well try to take a few with me and make them more hesitant with the next house.
When they kick down your front door, how you gonna come? With the hands on your head or on the trigger of your gun. When the law breaks in, how you gonna go, shot down on the pavement or waiting in death row? You can crush us, you can bruise us But you’ll have to answer to Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton The money feels good And your life you like it well But surely your time will come As in Heaven as in Hell You see, he feels like Ivan Born under the Brixton sun His game is called survivin’ At the end of the harder they come You know it means no mercy They caught him with a gun No need for the Black Maria Goodbye to the Brixton sun You can crush us, you can bruise us But you’ll have to answer to Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun You can crush us, you can bruise us And even shoot us But oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Shot down on the pavement Waiting in death row His game was survivin’ As in Heaven as in Hell You can crush us, you can bruise us But you’ll have to answer to Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton
They believe they can crush us with this overwhelming brutality. But Nope. We will be like the Irish… never giving up and blowing those mfers up strategically and unendingly. We will not submit.
Always upvote The Clash
That’s really the crux of the issue. The law doesn’t matter when they’re going to kill you before you see the inside of a courtroom
If a person is going to kill you no matter what, what do you gain by not killing them?
Monopoly on Violence. The state has it, until the people reassert it collectively.
Die defending against fascists vs live to see climate change destroy civilization.
So many decisions.
Don’t let them choose the battlefield. In your home you should prioritize escaping above all else.
Anyone who wants to fight back effectively will HAVE to take the fight to them.
Wolverines!
Which should be easy enough - just dress as they do - do we have any latent serial killers around? Because this would be a nice chance for them to start racking up kills. Dress up as ICE, kill some ICE goons, then calmly walk away because not even other ICE can tell you aren’t one of them. Some folks might blow whistles and boo you, that’s about the end of the consequences. If you turn up on security footage - well, no, you really didn’t. ICE did.
Trump’s plan coming to fruition. ICE agent shot, declare martial law, cancel elections.
Sounds like a problem solved with stockpiling more ammo.
and community collaboration
This one is, by far, the most important.
And learning how to use it
That’s why if the doorkickers come your only thought should be escape. 2A rights should be exercised strategically, tactically and above all, collectively.
Well Zoners. Don’t miss.
I dont plan to
The jury would love this kinda case tho. Easy not guilty.
Maybe, assuming you make it out of the encounter alive which seems pretty unlikely. In the pictures and videos of these raids there’s usually at least 6 agents involved. If you drop one or two I don’t think the other four would let you leave or peacefully surrender. If you got all six you might be able to leave or wait for the local PD and turn yourself in to them but all of that sounds pretty unbelievable to me.
As soon as you shoot one, they’ll be calling it in. There is no winning in that scenario
If ICE shows up at your door, demanding entry, you have no recourse. The law no longer protects citizens in their own home
Not true, though. We already have videos of people threatening to use 2A if ICE breaks in, and then of ICE leaving… In other words, you can scare them off. Do you think the average ICE agent wants to risk their own life to fuck someone up? No, of course not. They want to risk another ICE agent’s life, not their own.
Deadlocks, security (metal) doors, Window grates do.
Guess you’ll have to start keeping a kettle of hot oil above your front porch…
They’ll just shoot you
Then Kristi Noem will make an address telling the world how you were a domestic terrorist who threw boiling oil at brave ICE agents just performing their duties
Pam Bondi will direct the justice department to investigate your spouse, parents, children, and any others they can
Trump will say you were evil and deserved death
Half the country will be outraged that you were killed while defending your own home from a clearly illegal ICE raid
The other half of the country will say, “you were a domestic terrorist who threw boiling oil at brave ICE agents just performing their duties”. They will say, if you did nothing wrong, why are your spouse, parents, children, and others being investigated? An innocent person wouldn’t be related to so many criminals under investigation
They will conclude, “you were evil and deserved death”
The public, sure. When it gets to a jury and they see ICE was doing everything wrong the jury has consistently found people not guilty.
Yeah. And feds could kill you in jail pretrial. Idk mostly held by sherrifs or what in fed cases, but cops are on their side.
So what you’re saying is directional land mines and hand grenades?
Which is exactly why they would make sure it never reaches a jury. ICE will ensure you do not live to present your self-defense claim
You talk as if they aren’t untrained cowards who only face the unarmed.
Federal jury could be stacked, it has been known to happen.
Texas says if I feel threatened on my property, in my car, or at my job, I can shoot first and ask questions later. As a minority I don’t have the luxury of time to determine if you are a threat to my existence.
Okay gun folks, time to defend your homes!
Fine. There’s more of us than there is of them. They will run out of people before we will.
Yeah, but they have more tanks.
Tanks are terribly impractical weapons.
Okay. They have more
F35sBlackbirdsB2sTomahawksDrones[insert alternative of choice here].A lot of resources to be expended on domestic soil, eventually they’ll run out of both weapons and the very working people they need to keep the economy running to (among other things) keep producing weapons, no?
Yes and no. I think you vastly underestimate the military’s stockpile. So, they could subsist for a good while until all the Democrats/“Domestic Terrorists”/Undesirables are dead. Then, they’d just restart. Still though. If the rural farmers from Afghanistan/Iraq can defeat the US military through persistence with sticks, then the same can be done here. Their tactics might even serve as a roadmap.
I mean it’s true they have a lot of stuff, but having stuff alone isn’t all you need to have military success. Stuff is just stuff, it stays still until you use it, and it’s useless unless you use it well.
I mean, something something Bay of Pigs, something something Vietnam, so on and so forth…
Every war is won with 10% weapons and 90% logistics, and a pinch of field intelligence. In a domestic conflict, the “territory” is the same for both parties; it’s very hard to defend a logistics system (the “tail” of your military operation) when it’s in the ‘contested’ territory itself. And this is where the direct action comes in (something something Sabo the Cat!)
And we have more FPV drones.
They are hoping for that. I also think it’s the only way things will change. Stay safe.
To a quote Chevy Chase quote “we’re on the threshold of hell!” Our country needs bombed the fuck out. Nuke us from orbit.
The only problem I see, when the MAGA fucknut ICE goons assault a MAGA fucknut minority home owner, are the stray bullets zipping all over place. Yep, it’s going to be a Cluster Fuck.
Ngl I’m excited to see this footage
Given how these days, simply ringing a doorbell (usually a geezer) s enough to get you shot to death, I am surprised it’s not happened yet.
Fuck yeah open fire!
just need someone to try and find out. Guys, im trolling ? Like hello in what world you shoot police and think your in the right ?
im serious dont be dumb
I cant remember the full details, but I do recall there was years ago where police busted into a house without a warrant (wrong house or something), didnt identify themselves, and the home owner… who I think was former military? Opened fire and took several of them out.
and was found innocent in the resulting trial.
But even better than that, he lived through the initial encounter and made it to the trial.
Kenneth Walker shot police and Kenneth Walker was not only in the right, he was adjudicated on the matter and found not guilty by a jury of his peers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Breonna_Taylor
Masked, warrantless federal thugs that are indistinguishable from home invaders will eventually be shot or even killed. There are reasons that the police operate the way they do, and they are usually not out of the good of their heart.
in what world you shoot police and think your in the right ?
ICE aren’t police.
then be a dumb one that get shot for using force against state representative.
A lot of somebodies. One person is a scapegoat. Many people are a sentiment.
something to do with identification, the fact you have saw them. Even if i was swat i wouldnt really like to burst in the home of a veterant withou making them known im law enforcement. You have sevral story like that. They doesnt apply to ice. I was trolling. Dont try to use violence and force against ice.
Then it is really important to engage self protection. Put on respirators/gas masks. Wear thrift store coats. Carry dumb phones–you know, those phones that drug dealers use to use-- flip, prepaid. Carry a passport card. Heck, if you can obtain a Kevlar vest, it might save your life. Wear gloves, pads on your legs/knees under your clothes, a bike helmet. Those fuckers will throw you down on the pavement and injure you as much as they can especially once they got you on the ground and immobilized. Heck, I am a nurse and remember people who had spinal injuries wearing a plastic clamshell on their chest/back in order to keep it stabilzed… get those and dress warm underneath, and then over. It might save your spine.
Gotta learn how to make bombs cause shooting one won’t be enough.
Front Toward Enemy
I was just thinking of that but I don’t really want to be considered a terrorist. However, I FEEL that my government is enacting terrorism against its own citizens; and the evidence is very clear. They are killing us under the threadiest of pretext. They lie with every word they utter. They have no integrity, just a fulcrum of a pretext… a hinge of bullshit. However, I feel that the elevation of violence will just bring more and probably an insurrection act that will even limit us more. It appears that their actions are targeted to initiate a response… I am of 2 minds on this. I think suspending action will just make the noose tighter. The agreeing in advance kind of thing. Perhaps there is some way that people in free states can communicate without using social media/tracked data and discuss a decent plan. Just spitballing. We were not prepared for this at all and are late.
They are killing us and we’re just supposed to either sit there and take it or chant in the streets for a day or two then go back to work. We can at the very least make them scared that every time they storm a house or try to tackle someone, they’ll get blown up.
Fill a mannequin with tannerite and screws and put it near your front door. Stick a gun in it’s hand or a good looking airsoft gun. Dress it up so it isn’t obviously a mannequin.
Boom problem solved.
Maybe start channeling our inner Kevin McCallister…
or Ted Kaczynski
Hate to have to test it but…
