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If you think farms are for food wait till you find out what 40% of US corn is used for.
(it’s biofuel for cars)
and just wait till you find out what 60% of the remaining corn is used for
(it’s animal feed)
edit: and just wait till you find out how much water is used to artificially irrigate that corn
(something like 40 times as much as AI is estimated to use)
relevant Hank Green video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_c6MWk7PQc
Basically my (and from what I remember, his) point is, stop thinking water use is the problem with AI datacenters. Even power use isn’t the problem. We have all the technology and solutions necessary to build all this compute responsibly and sustainably, it’s more than doable, it wouldn’t even be particularly difficult.
The problem is hyperscaling and the lack of regulation (or straight up ignored regulation) that enables it, and the greedy people and corrupt politicians that want it to happen and let it happen. This is yet another thing that basically no other country in the world has real problems with besides the US of A, because in no other country is the shit your datacenters are doing legal. By barking up the wrong tree you are delaying the realisation that the problem is in your system and nowhere else.
This is yet another thing that basically no other country in the world has real problems with besides the US of A
USA companies are trying to export their brand of lawlessness to other countries. Just ignore the regulations, pay a fine, if they can’t kill it in court, and carry on.
Yup. Water cooling is a closed circuit (unless you shit money or have a near unlimited supply, like with a river nearby). We’ve been water-cooling all kinds of shit in data centers and production plants forever. In fact, direct water cooling is more efficient than traditional AC, because you don’t need to blow a bunch of air around, you just apply cold water to the hot parts, and cool the water back down afterwards. Sensitive stuff uses deionised water anyway, but I don’t know if they care enough for DCs. That is kind of expensive to produce and maintain, you really try to avoid larger leaks and spills.
There are plenty of issues with the datacenters, from the bullshit on-site gas turbines to noise pollution to using up the world’s RAM supply to the whole replacing humans with “AI” issue. But all of those could be solved with proper regulation.
Most data centers use evaporative cooling, not closed circuit water cooling.
Do they really? What the fuck. What happened to proper heat pump AC systems?
Simple, they are more expensive per what cooled than evaporative cooling. Especially when a lot of data centers under report the amount of water they are using.
Almond farming in the US uses a significant amount of water too. Like yes, it’s for food, but the Almond farming in California uses more water than the cities of LA and SF combined.
Still less H2O intensive than meat production.
I would also add Alfalfa and Nestle (bottled 2$ water to the list. Really though “technology connections” says if you took the corn for ethanol and replaced it with solar you could power all the electric cars. (I could be misremembering)
I’m pretty sure he said that if you replaced all of the land currently growing corn for ethanol and put solar panels there you would make more electricity than the entire us grid uses.
Alfalfa=meat
Absolutely. Outclasses data centers by a few orders of magnitude though… So far. Likely not for long.
Growing food to feed animals in an elaborate scheme to torture, exploit and then eat is truly one of humanities achievement
as we all know, America is the only country, and we consume 0% corn
The data centers are literally using portable turbine generators that produce wayyy more pollution than all of the cars we drive, yet somehow the epa cares more about putting 0w8 oil in my car to save 1 mpg in a year that can cause my engine to blow up. The data centers warm the neighborhoods by 2°C and will cause the elderly and people to develop more respiratory problems. They actually put these data centers in people’s backyards by getting local permits to bypass the epa, even though it’s illegal and then nothing is done because they have their feet dug in.
Don’t forget about water. Why’s every conversation about water? The things you’re describing are way worse than water consumption levels
Don’t forget the NDAs politicians sign so it can be done in secret and they can’t answer to anyone.
maybe they meant meat farms. meat uses more water than apparently anyone realizes or cares about. theres material to that reality, whether its acknowledged or not.
Aren’t “meat farms” typically referred to as “ranches”?
i dont think factory farms are called ranches, regardless, i wanted to be clear.
There’s a solution you don’t see
well go on and share with us your wisdom then
It’s called veganism.
LET PEOPLE ENJOY THINGS!!
Yup
oh… well yeah obviously
edit - thats what i was talking about the whole time
Food bubble is going to pop any day now.
Tbf they tried with Soylent, right?
We don’t need these datacentres.
We also don’t need to be growing alfalfa in the nevada desert
Animal exploitation is not necessary though, and with only growing the plants for Humans, instead of also growing for non-human animals bred into existence to be killed, farms would use significantly less water.
Also, maybe we don’t need to grow almonds in the middle of a desert.
Are you suggesting we don’t feed livestock? Real humane letting the cows starve to death…
Seriously I don’t understand what you’re even getting at here.
Eat them, and then don’t grow more.
(Assuming you’re asking with best intent)
I’m suggesting we stop breeding “livestock” (sentient animals) into existence for a life of torture to then be killed and eaten by humans.
80% of agricultural land is used for animal agriculture. Rewilding most of that land, making some of it habitable, and the remaining converted to plant agriculture would be a far more eco-friendly solution.
What I think you’re getting at with
If we stop caring for the cows, they’ll die.
(paraphrased)
Which I agree is unethical; however, real world solutions don’t happen immediately like that. A slow movement builds, and as demand for meat, dairy, eggs, etc. reduces, the supply will reduce over time until only a small portion of farmed animals remain. They should be cared for in a similar way that elephants on Sanctuaries or rescues are cared for.
The demand for animal byproducts is not going to reduce, Veganism is simply not as viable or desirable as you think it is.
Way more humane to let them live in squalor until the day some 14 year old slave labourer cuts their throats amiright?
If you think data centers are useful wait until unit you find out about mixed-use multi-residential zoning.
I imagine a dystopia on which the AI is sentient, and forcing humans to keep its maintenance, by demanding water and minerals.
Why would it even tell us? That could already be happening.
Alternative Matrix… Morpheus: You think that’s air you’re breathing? When you poop where do you think it goes?
I mean yeah but like… Agriculture.
I guess Lauren can try eating microchips
