The musician started dating Australian model Helena Vestergaard in 2013, and they split after being together for approximately two years.
Before that, Kiedis, now 63, had a relationship with Heather Christie, who was 22 years his junior. When the pair welcomed their son, Everly Bear, in 2007, Kiedis was 44 and his partner was 21.
In the latest episode of My Therapist Ghosted Me, Williams and her co-host Joanne McNally discussed age-gap relationships, with the former I’m a Celebrity campmate saying: “Do you know who else I find really disappointing, because I really like the Red Hot Chili Peppers? Anthony Kiedis.”
Seemingly referring to his romance with Vestergaard, Williams continued: “He is like 54 or something, and he is going out with a 19-year-old. And it is like, ‘Dude, what are you talking about?’”
McNally replied: “I’ve seen this. I just accept now that most men, all men, are drawn to – I’m going to be very careful how I say this – significantly younger women. That’s all I’m going to say. It is what it is and I don’t think there’s any getting away from it. We judge it but it’s not going to change.”
“I would have to say that it is not all men,” Williams continued. “Because I do think it is a very specific thing.”
Addressing why younger women might decide to date older men, McNally added: “And of course, people like him [Anthony Kiedis] and rockstars like him can get away with it because no 19-year-old girl wants to be going out with some old lad who is driving a Toyota Corolla around town.
I’ll never miss an opportunity to shit on Anthony Kiedis. But no one did it better than Mike Patton, so let’s just relive one of the most epic public fuck yous in musical history.
In the late 90s, one of Mike Pattons many acts, Mr Bungle, was on tour opening for RHCP. Patton believes it was due to them putting on such a hard to follow set that Kiedis kicked them off their tour stating that they were “Trying to rip off his style.”
What followed was, well, this. Mr. Bungle Halloween Show dressed as RHCP. Pattons way of saying “If I wanted to rip off your style I’d do it like this.” In the video their bassist, dressed as flea, can be seen miming injecting a syringe into his arm. Their guitarist, dressed as Frusciante, can be seen snorting invisible cocaine off the keyboard.
Patton decided the final piece of his revenge was to get back to the studio with Mr. Bungle. He hired out fucking John Zorn (Saxophonist for Zappa) to produce their new record. They titled it “California” and released ~5 weeks after RHCP released “Californication” as a final statement, to say something to the effect of “THIS is my style. RHCP doesn’t have style to rip off, you’re an easily replicable pop act.”
If you’ve never heard “California”, you owe it to yourself to make it your next full album listen. It is truly one of the best records of all time. Mike Pattons range is frightening.
As a huge fan of Mr Bungle, Mike Patton and Frank Zappa - I have never heard this before, but I love everything about it.
The fact about Zorn playing for Zappa is untrue, but he deserves plenty admiration on his own (Naked City is his album and then band with the same musicians). He also produced Mr. Bungle’s first album.
The real insult here is calling John Zorn ‘saxophonist for Zappa’ (edit: which isn’t even true). Zorn was a figurehead of punky jazz-fusion in the eighties’ and nineties’ NYC no-wave scene, and had/was in like fifty projects including seminal ‘Naked City’ and then jazzcore band Painkiller (with Bill Laswell and Mick Harris, the latter formerly of Napalm Death). He also has his own label Tzadik, releasing traditional Jewish music among other stuff.
Patton was on at least seventeen of Zorn’s albums and several non-album releases, and was a guest in Painkiller. Likewise, Zorn was likely on multiple albums by Patton and his projects.
P.S. Zorn has also produced Mr. Bungle’s first album.
TIL that Zorn played on Zappa’s albums. I mostly knew him from working with Buckethead and Bill Laswell
Actually, that seems to be untrue. There’s nothing about Zappa on Zorn’s Wikipedia page, and nothing about Zorn on Zappa’s and The Mothers of Inventions’ ones, except that Zorn was influenced by Zappa. On Discogs, I can’t find even one record where they worked together, only compilations of various artists.
Idk where the article’s author got that, since I’ve never heard such a claim despite listening to Zorn on and off for twenty years. I straight up read through his Wikipedia page recently-ish, before posting an album of his here on Lemmy.
And now I see the link between Patton and Serj Tankian.
Serj + Buckethead, Buckethead + Zorn, Zorn + Patton.
Serj has said a lot of glowing things about Patton in interviews. Always wondered if they had any career overlap.
Marc Streitenfeld, Serj Tankian, and Mike Patton released a single together, called ‘Bird’s Eye’. Patton and Tankian were both guests on Praxis’ ‘Profanation (Preparation For A Coming Darkness)’, but on different tracks (Praxis is a band of Laswell, Buckethead and Bryan “Brain” Mantia, with various guests including Zorn and aforementioned Mick Harris).
Oh, yeah, that’s the guy who was the Anger Sphere in Valve’s Portal.
He’s a fucking madman,
Like I said. His range… Is… Frightening
More people should be fans of Mike Patton.
Jfc how does his vocal chords still work?!
As someone who can lay down some pretty brutal growls, it’s technique.
He is an opera trained singer. He knows how to abuse his voice, when to stop, has immaculate diaphragm/breath control, has intimate understanding of sound compression… etc
I love Goodbye Sober Day, I didn’t know about the beef with RHCP so that was a fun history lesson
i believe the problem was that in the early days Faith no more sounded similar to early RHCP, and later that Mr Bungle called their album California. As everyone knows, Kiedis is the only one who has the rights to sing about California. To be clear, RHPC are shit compared to anything Patton did.
As stated in my post, California came out after this beef. It was Patton’s final blow to RHCP to title their next album so similarly to RHCP.
But you’re right that Keidis was likely more familiar with Faith No More in his suggesting Bungle was ripping off his style
This is what makes the ‘most public musical fuck you’ so immense. Patton was showing Kiedis that Bungle wasn’t only ‘not Faith No More,’ (which to Patton, sure might have been a bit like RHCP… because it was his pop act. He was trying to make money, not be artistically inportant. And it was still more diverse than RHCP could ever dream of becoming. He was subtly saying “Faith no more was my pop act. You know me through that. Bungle is the real me, these are my friends from high school. And because you’re a twat, the next Bungle album is titled ‘California.’”
If I recall correctly kiedis used his connections to get bungle cancelled from some festivals and also got California delayed.
Such a shitty tiny little person who hates that Patton is 100 times the singer than he could ever be. Also Mike seems like he’s not a junkie and generally a decent and nice guy which can not be said about Anthony.
I love that album. Once I took a hike around Edinburgh to listen to the entire Bungle discography in order.
One of the biggest regrets I carry today was missing Bungle in their prime. I saw FNM and Fantomas but unfortunately didn’t get off my arse to see Mr Bungle and I should have.
For your post, there was stuff in there I didn’t know. I’d heard about the parody show but that was the first time I watched video of it. As for the meaning of California, yeah I hadn’t heard that. Both California and Disco Volante are masterpieces. Warner Bros thought they were getting another marketable FNM lmao
Thanks for the step back in time. They were great times that we will never see again.
Same. I got to see Bungle in the last 5 years. It was bittersweet that they played nothing off of California. I felt both appreciated and ignored. Classic. Battles opened. It was rad.
Yeah I was torn on going to that one. It’s good stuff but it’s the later stuff that’s my bag. Especially California. That’s a magnificent record that stands up anywhere
If you want to continue to enjoy the music of your childhood, never look into the personal lives of the artists who made it. It will make you very sad/angry
One exception from the horrifying classic rock era is Pink Floyd. At least nothing that I am aware of from those guys.
I think Rush as well. So far so good anyway.
Waters is somewhat crazy lately, but he’s also old as fuck, so eh.
The keyboard player had mental breakdowns from Waters bullying him. Syd Barrett literally went crazy. They made loads of money from their music, but lost it all to shady investments and had to live in tax exile. Two different versions exist of the flying pig in the live show, one with balls and one without, because of Gilmore and Waters falling out. There are some good stories with Pink Floyd.
Tool’s members are pretty boring… Except Maynard … Who plays in multiple bands, runs a winery/vineyard, runs several businesses, and yells at people to get off his lawn…
Arizona stronghold! Got to meet him at a greenwise market event in Boca Raton. You could tell he didn’t want to be there, and it was only his curly haired partner doing all the hand shaking. He didn’t sign with the classic x’s and I was kinda disappointed.
Speaking as someone who is/was moderately obsessive about Tool, I regret to inform you that Maynard is credibly accused of rape
If you’re talking about the 2018 allegation. I don’t remember that allegation being considered “credible.”. If you have additional information since then, please link it for me and I will look at it.
But I like the cranberries :<
Do you have to?
Do you have to?
Can confirm. Child of the 80s. Absolutely huge Michael Jackson fan. Not so much now.
Michael Jackson was acquitted every time though, all signs point to him being slandered and the media doing what they do best - fucking up someone’s life over accusations.
In the end, we’ll never know. Iirc, it is just one family accusing him?
Oh, no. PLEASE tell me Michael Jackson doesn’t really have anything questionable in his past. I’m hoping it’s something minor?
minor
That’s the claim, anyway. Supposedly, according to media outlets and one specific family he invited children to his property for epstien reasons, not to try and recapture the childhood he wasn’t allowed to have.
Idk if I believe he did anything, but bare minimum some former child actors that have said “no he definitely didn’t try anything with me but other people in Hollywood did” and I find that more compelling than a talking head on a news program who is “just asking questions”
He definitely took young boys into his bedroom, locked the door and slept in the same bed as them. He admitted as much himself. He was in his forties at the time.
Whether he did what he was accused of will never be 100% proven as there’s no other evidence than the testimony of the two victims, but their stories are so similar it seems fairly likely (unless they colluded), to be true. Furthermore, fact that they both maintain their stories despite having absolutely nothing to gain from it also lends creedance to their story. I loved MJ, I don’t want it to be true, but my gut tells me that where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
From Kiedis’s Wikipedia article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kiedis ):
Kiedis acknowledges in his autobiography Scar Tissue that he had sexual relations with a 14-year-old girl when he was 23, before and after learning of her age, in the 1980s. This inspired him to write the song “Catholic School Girls Rule”
….
Kiedis had a relationship with actress Ione Skyein the late 1980s starting when he was 24 and she was 16.
Insane.
We put a dude from my hometown in prison for doing that shit.
Yeh, but did that dude sing ‘Under The Bridge’?
He was gross and it was the 90’s. I’m sure he sang it all the time.
Then talk about that, not him currently dating an adult woman.
If a consenting young adult wants to be with an old person, more power to them, but these are actually gross and should put him in jail
meh, she’s of age and consenting. I’m more upset about the time he raped a 14 year old.
You can be upset about the rape and disgusted about the predatory nature of a 50 year old taking advantage of a 19 year old. They’re not mutually exclusive.
The guy is a asshole and and the part about the young girl from his book shows he isn’t a good person but this is a nothing burger from people who are going to be real get off my lawn types when they age up.
This is not music, it’s gossip.
Y’know, gossip as a term has had a lot of different connotations. Some would argue that gossip is a way for people to keep others safe by letting them know of dangers (and dangerous people) that they otherwise wouldn’t have known.
I don’t see anything in the rules about music related topics being forbidden.
Thank you for keeping us safe from Anthony Kiedis
We’ve come a long way since it was normalized for grown men to rape 14 year olds. We can go further.
What is your further? 60 year old men dating 18 year olds is creepy, don’t get me wrong, but if the 18 year old is consenting and content in the relationship (and wasn’t groomed!) where is the problem? I was being snarky before but now I’m genuinely curious.
I think that it’s possible for age-gap relationships to be healthy. I believe that the more experienced partner has a duty to leave the less experienced partner in as good a mental and physical shape or better after the relationship. I believe in adults having autonomy and freedom to make their own choices.
That doesn’t mean I reserve judgement for the older partner in situations where it’s clear they are putting their own selfish wants ahead of the younger person’s well-being. I don’t trust that Kiedis treats these young women with regard to their well-being based on his history of raping young teens.
So it’s nuanced, as anything I try to approach in life.
I spread awareness about these kinds of topics because people like Kiedis still rarely see any jail time for the crimes that preceded these age-gap relationships.
Oh I see what you mean now, I was missing some important context and just concluded the age gap was the issue.
I’m Kiedis proof: I’m not in California.
I think my sarcasm was entirely missed? Or are you continuing the banter? I don’t spend enough time online, I feel like a grandma.
Continuing the banter. Riffing on Red Hot Chilli Peppers’ well-documented fixation on California.
Its better than in was in the 70s just about every musician was dating 14 years olds…
*barf
They were all dating the same 14-year-old.
„Dating“ aka raping and trafficking.
Damn I don’t know what it is about Lemmy, but it just brings the pedophiles out of the woodwork. This comment section is bleak.
Yeah, seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people? A 60 year old sniffing around teenagers and young 20 year olds are creeps and sleezebags. It is not laudable, nor is it “evolutionarily normal”, it is a power imbalance. We are humans, not base animals. We can choose to be better.
Totes agree. However a majority of society has been conditioned to think those with money deserve what they buy and by extension sociaty excuses bad behaviour, due to wanting to follow.
These chicks would not look twice if they didn’t have fame or money. It is a power imbalance and the old pervs can call it what they want, the young girls can use names like sugar baby to soften it, but it’s still tacky and degrading behaviour.
So you going be Leonardo DiCaprio? Because he may very continue dating young women in his 80’s.
He’s gross now for his dating record. We don’t have to wait until he’s in his 80’s to judge him.
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He’s a creep.
The sexism and pedophilia openly embraced on Lemmy almost pushed me away completely when I first came here. I’m trying to be the change I want to see here instead.
I haven’t seen that, personally, I have found the majority here to be rabidly against those things. I was made aware of this particular pedophile right here on lemmy maybe a year ago and stopped listening to their music
I’ve literally seen not one thread on the topic in which pedophile lovers don’t come out of the woodworks. It’s important to remember that a lot of people are on this website because they were banned from Reddit, some of whom for good reason.
A very similar conversation about Steven Tyler happened in the lemmyshitposting community that was appalling. There was an incredible amount of defense for pedophiles there, similar to this thread, except those comments were highly, highly upvoted and supported.
The sexism I have experienced first hand. You should see some of the DMs I get.
Ma’am, you do a fantastic job at being the change we love to see.
This is literally my face at 4:20am today reading some of these comments
Edit: Fuck, some nasty people in these comments. I need a joint and it’s not even 5am 🤢
<3
Hahaha that image is perfect.
lol yeah, some folks be nasty and that’s my fave while scrolling
Love me some Seven of Nine 💚
I’ve seen tankies and extreme libertarians but none of what up mention here.
May I ask if you’re a man?
I don’t particularly identify with any physical sex. I am gay however.
I find AFAB tend to pick up on the subtleties of sexists and misogynists a little easier than AMAB people tend to simply because of life experience.
There’s a lot of misogyny that’s allowed with very little pushback on Lemmy.
I don’t disagree with you and am not surprised. There are a lot of immature people and those who are not able to recognize their own emotions. I tend to be sensitive to such things but may not always be subject to them myself.
I’m sure I have blind spots to some stuff like this that as well. I know I’ve stumbled occasionally with my own husband as he’s a different race than I am. Since I haven’t experienced racism personally, it can be harder to spot immediately for instance.
Like I said though, it hasn’t been enough to push me away completely and I’m working on making the fediverse more diverse :)
Man at first I did not understand cause Im late and sorted for score. Its like those Iceberg videos in here the further down you go, the more depressing it gets.
If people wanna talk about his underage girlfriends from forty years ago have at it. Acting like this is at all the same thing is infantilizing the adult woman he’s dating, and it just shows how utterly broken some people’s minds are when the subject of sex comes up.
People will scroll for hours on TikTok seeing sexualized children, or scroll through infinite videos of 19/20 year olds getting railed on reddit/lemmy, and then act surprised that they’re getting laid.
While its really weird. Shes a consenting adult, both consented. So ok ig
Yeah i hate this shit. You can think it’s skeevy on a personal level, but she’s an adult, she gave consent, and she can make her own decisions. Infantilising women is not the way to go.
Were a woman too, honestly whenever a really old woman starts dating a really young man, ask of a sudden it’s ok? Feel as if this is very gender oriented than it being age oriented.
Let her get her bag, honestly people hovering over celebrities like idols and peering/obsessing into their personal lives like this is just invasive and sad.
“And of course, people like him [Anthony Kiedis] and rockstars like him can get away with it because no 19-year-old girl wants to be going out with some old lad who is driving a Toyota Corolla around town."
Not true. Rock stars are LESS likely to “get away with it”, because of all the scrutiny. Plenty of young girls are attracted to older men, I experienced it myself up to around 55. I’m very far from rich and famous. There’s nothing illegal about it, so the only “getting away” that happens is social stigma. Being rich and famous means they can be older and uglier, I suppose.
Plenty of young girls are attracted to older men, I experienced it myself up to around 55.
The 55 year old has the life experience to know that they’re taking advantage if they fuck a teenager. The power dynamic is inherently imbalanced, especially with a rock star.
to know that they’re taking advantage
Not everyone agrees with the premise, so it doesn’t follow. Sex and romance are not inherently harmful, and relationships with large age-gaps are not inherently harmful either. Society would do well to stop treatiing sex as taboo. That is harmful.
This situation is inherently predatory. A much older rock star has a lot more power than a 19 year old in many, many ways.
That doesn’t at all make such a relationship “inherently predatory”, but you’re free to believe whatever tf you want.
Yes it does. He has significantly more money, fame, and influence.
Sex and romance are not inherently harmful. Having more money, fame, or influence than one’s partner does not make the relationship predatory. I’ll repeat: Society would do well to stop treating sex as taboo. Sexual stigma is terrible for us all.
Treating all sex and rape as inherently good and healthy is wild.
I don’t know if power imbalance is the right frame to work from, here. Ultimately, rock stars and other public persona have a power imbalance with basically everyone. I once had a short term fling with an older lady who turned out to also be worth north of half a bil. There was absolutely a power imbalance involved when she had her private plane pick me up for a date weekend across Europe.
I think you might look more to, I guess, “life stage”. Back when I was in college, I remember there being relationships between college freshmen and college seniors, and well as relationships between college freshmen and high school seniors. Generally speaking, the freshmen dating high school seniors had longer term more stable relationships with a smaller age gap…and yet they got shit on much more than college freshmen/seniors. Because a college student and a high school student are in different stages of their life.
I imagine you end up with similar situations here. I genuinely don’t think a rock star has emotionally matured past teens/early 20s, because they never really had to grow up once the money showed up.
I struggle with dating quite a bit, but I imagine I’d have more in common with a 20 year old that’s been working for 2+ years, than a 26 year old grad student that hasnt worked a non-TA job in their life. Although I don’t think either would be age appropriate. Just illustrating the example.
He’s got more than one defining characteristic that causes an inherent power imbalance - age, money, and influence.
It’s possible for age-gap relationships to be healthy, I absolutely believe this.
But I don’t believe it in the case of Kiedis with his history of raping children.
True, this particular pedo is still a pedo. Note that my life stage analysis still holds true for this and previous improprieties.
My point was to question the power imbalance phrasing. I think that should be retired in favor of something that is more reflective of (in my opinion) actually predatory relationships. Life stage is almost a structural, inherent power imbalance. Power imbalance on its own can just reflect a difference in decision making.
I prefer the campsite rule myself:
The Campsite Rule, coined by sex advice columnist Dan Savage, states that older or more experienced partners in an age-gap or unequal relationship must leave the younger or less-experienced partner in at least as good a physical and emotional state as they found them
The fact that limited to people with less power than you makes me confused…why not everyone?
It is for everyone, but especially with power imbalance relationships.
He’s not in jail for raping a 14 year old, is he?
Are any of those rock stars in jail for raping girls?
I recently turned 60, and I’ve been on a journey with my health and fitness, having been morbidly obese for more than 15 years. I am now in the best shape of my life. I am more muscular, stronger, faster, have better endurance, etc., etc., than at any other time in my life. 60 year old me could beat 25 year old me’s ass any day of the week. I also have the good fortune of having good genetics for facial aesthetics, and I’m finding that women of all ages are attracted to me. It’s insane. Attraction isn’t logical, it’s instinctual. People want what they want and come up with justifications in hindsight. If you have a handsome face and the body of a Hollywood A-lister, you don’t need money or fame to attract women. It doesn’t matter how old you are, if you’ve got the goods, they want it.
I 100% agree with this, attraction is just as much the animal in us as it is the human. Also, good on you for getting fit, I hope I’m still kicking ass like that when I get to 60. The big difference I think is that you’re probably not out here trying to hook up with jailbait.
I for one don’t give two shits about age gaps after 30, everyone involved has hit their developmental markers and that’s as adult as you get. I’m also not gonna stand between two adults hooking up regardless of development, it’s legal and it’s not my place to kink shame.
Anthony Kiedis though, he wwrote in his autobiography that hr fucked a 14 year old, found out immediately after that she was 14, fucked her again anyways, and them wrote the song Otherside about the experience. Doesn’t matter who he’s dating or what his explanation is, he’s a pedophile and that’s not acceptable.
I’ve not dated anyone under 35, and 30 is my lower limit.
Thanks for clarifying, I was definitely side-eyeing your earlier comment before seeing this one.
Yeah age-gap relationships when everyone is 30+ don’t bother me at all as long as everyone is consenting.
Plenty of young girls are attracted to older men
I can’t help but notice that in May-December relationships, December usually comes with Christmas.
That’s too cryptic for me to understand. Can you explain what you’re trying to say?
He ain’t saying they’re gold diggers…
She called him out for dating a consenting adult. Sure, it’s a big, creepy age gap, but that’s their business.
Maybe she didn’t know about the time when he was banging a 14-year-old.
I think she’s trying to open a dialog about his predilection to younger women. Break the ice with an icky agegap, when they have your attention bring up the stat rape.
McNally replied: “I’ve seen this. I just accept now that most men, all men, are drawn to – I’m going to be very careful how I say this – significantly younger women. That’s all I’m going to say. It is what it is and I don’t think there’s any getting away from it. We judge it but it’s not going to change.”
Study evolutionary psychology. Men are wired to be attracted to women of prime childbearing age. In our evolutionary history, we reproduced early and died early. Just because we live much longer now doesn’t mean our genetic impulses change. Yes, there is societal pressure to counteract it, but pretending that it doesn’t exist doesn’t do anyone any favors.
Pretending like men aren’t in complete control of their actions sure is a thing you can do.
There’s plenty of biological urges that we expect control over and this is no exception. It’s not biology that made this man rape a 14 year old or date a 19 year old.
Men are wired to be attracted to women of prime childbearing age.
Now do the one about how there are different kinds of paedophile, as if it makes some of them ok.
Congratulations, your ad hominem attack was successful.
ok, tell me the number for “prime childbearing age”
I only said two comments to you. hardly a hosepipe.
In fact, I take offence to that, at least attribute it to what it is, which is the “Socratic method”
“You asked me a question. Now, how am I supposed to keep up with you?”
Why would I bother studying a widely debunked pseudoscience? Might as well study homeopathy and chiropractice while you’re at it.
Do you think older women go looking for 18 yr old boys?
Or is their evolutionary history just wired different?
This is so funny to me. It’s sexist, straight up. You can dislike it but this is sexist towards women.
When I was 19 nobody would’ve cared if I was with a 50 year old, unless it was a man, because then that’s sinful or something. If I was with a 90 year old woman, people would accuse me of taking advantage of her.
Let people do what they want, isn’t that what this society we operate in is supposed to be about? If I wanna lick 90 year old wieners and buns, let me do me.
And it’s not like you can’t call him out for being a pedophile.
He was literally dating a 14 year old when he was 23.
Call him out for THAT. Not for dating an adult.
Agreed 1000%. Bigger fish to fry.
Nobody tell him his choice in partners makes him look ridiculous, he is a laughing stock for all around him (but similar-minded men). I’m around his age, and couldn’t tolerate the chatter personally. SHADDUP SHADDUP GET OUT
I prefer my partners to be twice-or-thrice-divorced, with eyes that have stared deep into the void.
And of course, people like him [Anthony Kiedis] and rockstars like him can get away with it because no 19-year-old girl wants to be going out with some old lad who is driving a Toyota Corolla around town.
Any old codger can get a younger woman, he just has to lower his standards drastically.
Every one of those people on 600-pound life have a partner.
A rich old codger/cougar doesn’t have to lower their standards, but as we can see here, Kiedis’ standards are “young and skinny”. Whatever, weenie. You suck and your band is shit
some old lad driving a Toyota Corolla
I feel targeted
