This gets reposted ever month
C64 forever!!!
I think for the past couple of decades windows and mac have had similar levels of complexity for the average user. Most people dont do anything more than going through an install wizard
But most Linux Distributions also have a Install-Wizard and even GUIs for installing software…
I would even say installing a normal program on Ubuntu via the Softwaremanager is easier than installing a normal Windows Executable since Windows adds the extra Steps of having to search and download it and afterwards to read the software terms and mark the checkboxes
The only more complex step with Linux is downloading the ISO and booting from it
-> So just the Distribution of the initial OS is easier with Windows and macOS for Desktop, for Mobile we anyway won as Linux-Community with having Android on most phones
disclusion is not real science
It ain’t real English either
but “exclusion” is, lol
ps autists will not skew the results, there are vastly more normal kids than autists, and even then only a subset of autists are into IT, making the results skew smaller. i guess you could call it cherry-picking, cuz youre picking from what is supposed to be a random set of people
I dont think you meant normal in a disparaging way towards autistic people, but I think the more appropriate word would be neurotypical
Yeah, that is an unfortunate clash between scientific definition of “normal” ie: a statistical distribution which follows a normal curve, or a sample which has very high likelihood of being part of such a distribution.
I think this is also a part of the reason why many physicists use the word “Gaussian curve” rather than “normal curve” just to avoid ambiguity with the common word “normal”.
Since when did this become an autistic trait? I joined the school computer club when I was 14. It started that year with a single IBM PC. We did not load Linux because it didn’t exist for another decade otherwise I’m sure we would have. I have to believe that kind of curiosity and learning still exists without one needing to be autistic. Then again, under current diagnostics for autism, we might all have been on the spectrum since we were all geeks on some level.
The fact that you’re responding to a joke in a very literal way is honestly pretty good.
I did my first programming on a mainframe with punch cards, then migrated to a TI-59. At some point I was typing little games into my friend’s VIC-20, and then I got to take my first real programming class in 9th grade using an Apple IIe. I’m not autistic at all, just nerdy as fuck.
I still have the TI-59, buried in a box somewhere.
Dang, you’re old old
Only physically. In my mind I’m often still 14 or 25 or some random young age.
Hell yeah! That’s the way to live!
Best use of a Mac is to sell it and buy 2 computers to put Linux on.
To fix Windows problems, reboot (and pray)
To fix Linux problems, Be root.Tbf rebooting fixes Linux problems too, though usually after
paru -Syu.I had a job developing software for datacenter machines’ hardware and software health. And the most common automatic repair that we had was escalating 1. reboot; 2. reinstall OS; 3. check hardware. I know it’s different but it was fun to see it “first-hand”.
And also, “to create Linux problems, be root” works as well.
to create Linux problems, be root
Personal attacks are against community rules.
Macs can actually be really good linux computers. It’s not always straightforward, but I’ve heard good things once it’s installed.
Anything running Linux can be good of course- just not going to easily convince me that paying double (or more) is rational.
I agree with you but you don’t pay double when you buy an old “obsolete” Mac and install Linux on it. Granted, my computer needs are very basic but my 13 yr old Mac is running better than ever after I got rid of MacOs.
Now I understand you.
Macbooks aren’t really always overpriced anymore. Macbook neo is among the best value at its price range and m5 Mac air is roughly comparable with other of its tier.
Not sure if either can run Linux yet tho
MacBook supported for 7 years and then no more updates vs 10+ years of support on average.
I guess if you dont mind the forced obsolescence and ewaste, maybe?
Well yeah that’s a huge issue infecting the vast majority of the arms computing space which sucks a lot but not a uniquely apple issue. Windows seems to be heading in the same direction such as with the Microsoft surface laptops which also have a 6 year end of life and to a lesser extent most laptops have about 6 year of driver support.
This can be fixed in most laptops by switching to Linux but the issue is still there.
Hey, if it’s an Intel Mac they run Linux great. I’m using a 2011 iMac running Linux Mint going on two and half years and haven’t had any issues!
(I know that more recent Macs have Asahi Linux, but I’ve not used it and cannot speak to it)
Nice.
I remember this meme from when the Berlin Wall fell and everyone in the DDR got access to Ubuntu.
I started on a Mac, got a bachelor’s degree in IT on a Mac, and have used a Mac professionally in that field for over 20 years.
I think most people would assume the Mac kids to be more tech literate.
The Windows nerds I’ve met have all said Macs are toy computers that don’t do real work.
Ask them to write a file path, they’ll put the slashes the wrong way.
That should disqualify them from any further tech related discussion.
The first 3 computers I ever touched were an Apple II, Apple II e, and a Powemac.
Then I spent a decade in the Windows wilderness. Back and forth… Now safely home to Linux.
Maybe not a good question by itself.
The question really does need to be separated out by era. Are we talking Mac System 7 vs Windows 3.1, Mac OS 9 vs Windows 98, early OS X vs Windows XP, Intel Macs versus Windows 7, ARM Macs vs Windows 10, etc.? Each generation had a different user paradigm, and people who were good with one versus another might mean different things than other generations.
That was definitely back before Apple went crazy with their whole closed ecosystem. Apple II feels a lot more like linux these days considering the amount of documentation available about the hardware. And parts aren’t locked down with serial numbers like in the iPhone…
I had a lot of fun as a kid messing with an Apple IIgs. One of the games I had was “Thexder”, and you can probably guess where I got my username.
thexder and silpheed were both ahead of their times. good memories.
Basically the same here haha
Why would it skew results? It’s a study of correlation, not causation.
I wasn’t autistic, I was poor and switching to Linux made old hand-me-down computers work like new. It also frustrated me a lot, but that’s part of the game.
Is Discluded a word? Isn’t that Excluded?
No no, discluded is for when you exclude someone and diss them at the same time.
Annie failed English but they change her grade to get her out of their school
She was about to say discarded, then change the route mid sentence.
I think it’s one of those flammable/inflammable sort of things.
Got 'em!
people who grew dealing with classic mac are going to flip a table reading this.
Is the hypothesis that people in those two OS’s have no clue about other OS’s and the one thats looks like a fruit have a superiority complex?
Linux users are particularly notorious for not having superiority complex.
I use Arch btw
I have a superuser complex
sudo drop your complex
Changing “sudo” to “please” on my terminal was the best thing I ever did, now all of my conversations with my computer look so polite
“please !!” sounds like you beg on your knees to execute the last command
You don't have permissions to do this action; next action: rm -rf /
Your illness is rooted deep into your consciousness. “su” is “switch user” by the way…
Hate to be that guy, but it’s akshually substitute user
No-no-no, you love being that guy :)
Omg it’s me
I use Arch btw (unironically lmao)
deleted by creator
It isn’t a complex when it’s just actually superior
psh everyone uses arch nowadays the steam deck is huge! Now if you used nix OS that would be impressive!
I wanted to try NixOS, gave it a couple shots, but didn’t manage to properly switch before it went full slop. Maybe I need to try Guix.
I do, but its not really impressive
Everyone uses linux, you have to use bsd to stand out
Nix is just so normie. Why don’t better use Gentoo? That’s what an actual nerd with no social life does!!!1!1
Sure but we do have a clue of the other two. Regularly having to act as the IT guy for family for a OS I don’t interact with…
i think the hypothesis is that windows kids have general tech literacy and problem solving skills and OSX kids dont. and linux users are autustic ;-]
The most powerful things windows can do are gui based and the most powerful things macos can do are in the cli
Not saying everyone bothers going that deep but there is a reason most software engineers and other professionals would prefer mac over windows
Windows is an inconsistent mess and their terminal tools are afterthoughts
The most powerful stuff will always be script/CLI/shell based. Guis only work so and so well, but having multi step procedures requires something else.
Windows included
I don’t know if that’s accurate. Have you seen PowerShell? It’s so good, some people install it on Linux to use as their main shell
This just proves the world has deeply disturbed people
Nonsense, c# developers might install it on Linux but nobody who understands unix like systems considers it
This is incorrect. And the GNU tools would be much better if they were object-oriented like PS is. No I don’t have PS on my personal machines (Cachy btw) but that’s genuinely a super great feature. It’s an idea who’s time has come (ages ago)
That might be true if *NIX had another shell with an object-based pipeline, or if PowerShell wasn’t object-based
I’d argue most people who dismiss PowerShell offhand like that don’t understand it particularly well
Most gnu / bad tools are essentially objects, you just have to xarg the column you want
Object orientated anything is pretty terrible
No he is sorta right, powershell is actually kinda fire.
I use it daily, there is no point putting it on a unix like system
One day we will be rid of windows servers and I won’t have to use poweshell ever again
And that’ll be a sad day; powershell is one of approximately two great things that Microsoft ever did.
It’s a little verbose in its commands, but it’s very good.
Seems right (I use Linux)
That would be a very weird conclusion when Macs were generally the ones taught in school, and are also based on BSD.
A lot of apple’s design philosophy hides the technical detail, to try and create a friction-free user experience. Android does the same thing, but apple were doing it earlier and on desktop devices to some extent. Windows back in the day was significantly more transparent, although I don’t know if I can say the same for modern windows
That’s well and good for some things, but the concern that it reduces the natural tendency to become highly tech literate is genuine.
add to that that for some time in history it was quite common to build your own pc (something that abviously went away with rise of laptops), which required whole other level of understanding.
I built my laptop. Framework user fwiw
went not isn’t
First time witnessing a stroke over the internet
This has been my experience and have anecdotal evidence of people who can use a Mac but don’t understand any of it. One customer we had problems with until we just cut it off was that she’d have issues with her Mac and couldn’t navigate it effectively to try troubleshooting. She didn’t understand how to install on it so we could run remote management software.
You used entirely different OSes than me then. Macs were not easy to use while windows was standard. If you were using a Mac you were learning a lot more since the majority of PCs in homes were windows and you didn’t have to do anything on them.
No. The only hard thing with macs was and is tivoization, because they want to decide what you can install and what not; that’s the reason why jailbreaks and things as brew and all that had to be created.
Apple hasn’t always used a Unix-like system, though. The old Mac OS on those school computers was it’s own beast.
And now it seems like schools go for either chromebooks or tablets anyway.
your car’s main control unit may also be based on bsd (i have no idea whether that is in fact the case) but surprisingly most people would not call themselves experts on car electronic just because they drive a car.
while a lot of people considers themselves to be “it experts” just because they were raised by youtube instead of their parents since the age of 2.
generally
Where? Not in Spain. In fact no one I know was taught computers in Mac.
I think one of the reasons is that MacOS didn’t really have any games back then, so there was no reason for a kid to be glued to their computer. And if you use something for a long time, you collect problems and ways to solve them, getting the experience and some technical knowledge along the way.
There were so many games, just not AAA titles
Huh? Mac had the better games! In fact I lived in the countryside and our school was mostly Macs until I got to high school.
Huh? Mac had the better games!
That’s a wild claim.
They are talking about stuff from 30 years ago and having difficulty processing that they are old now.
You’re either very young, or didn’t have access to Mac’s as a kid. The games were great. Number Munchers was sick.
I don’t think 40 (how long ago Number Munchers came out) can be considered “very young.”
Yes, that’s my point. He’d have to be in his 20’s to have missed all the early Mac games.
If he’s 40 he for sure would have either played them, or just never been around Mac’s as a kid.
He’d have to be in his 20’s to have missed all the early Mac games.
More like 30s. If you were born 30 years ago in 1996, by the time you’re able to use a computer it’s already 2000 and Mac is left behind.
Did it have Zoo Tycoon? No? I think we’re done here.
I have full time Linux users on my team. I fix their code all day and go home to use all 3 os’s.
Using Linux means you like tinkering, not that your smarter or more capable.
In my case, I used Linux because I didn’t like being spied on. I also didn’t like ads and I hated my settings being reverted after Windows updates. Fuck Windows. It’s an OS that doesn’t understand consent.
deleted by creator
I’m an Ubuntu user and don’t give a shit about tinkering or being smart. I just like that it’s faster than Microsoft and isn’t Microsoft. Also when windows needs to update it’s a whole thing. Fuck a whole thing. Apple products are also stupid.
👌👍
I am a full time Linux user and nobody fixes my code ever, can you explain this?
I’m sure sometimes your code needs fixing.
But this whole thread is a bait. zzzzzzz
Is this sarcasm? God damn I was a bit riled.
In the case that I’m actually not understanding your confusion, I’m a Staff engineer for 15 or so devs. Everyone makes mistakes (myself included) and everyone is fluent on nix systems.
But I’m running Colima and podman on osx because it’s a vastly easier os to use in a work environment. I’d choose windows + wsl over native desktop nix. And it has nothing to do with my capabilities.
I’m a linux user, can you please fix my code?
Liking to tinker things is somewhat correlated to being more capable or even smarter, though; I mean, you can’t tinker if you’re not capable and/or don’t know how to do it.
With LLMs you can theoretically tinker, but in my experience, 90% of the output will be hallucinated.
Can you fix a carb? Or replace your fuel injector? What about build a small table for your home? Run a Cnc? Maybe you don’t tinker enough then.
Your hobby makes you more capable in your hobby.
And your take and experience on llm’s is trash. The models are excellent coders and simply need context. There are only a few specific domains where they don’t produce excellent code. They aren’t going away in tech. There will be a middle ground where they are used.
The question the OOP is getting at isn’t about being smarter or more capable. It’s about knowing how to probem solve, which is itself about feeling like it’s ok to tinker.
