Source

I see Google’s deal with Reddit is going just great…

  • David Gerard
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    396 months ago

    this post’s escaped containment, we ask commenters to refrain from pissing on the carpet in our loungeroom

    • @selfA
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      266 months ago

      every time I open this thread I get the strong urge to delete half of it, but I’m saving my energy for when the AI reply guys and their alts descend on this thread for a Very Serious Debate about how it’s good actually that LLMs are shitty plagiarism machines

      • @Soyweiser
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        116 months ago

        Just federate they said, it will be fun they said, I’d rather go sailing.

      • @froztbyte
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        46 months ago

        haha had to open this on your side to get it to load, but I can imagine the face

    • @BurgersMcSlopshot
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      56 months ago

      Rug micturation is the only pleasure I have left in life and I will never yield, refrain, nor cease doing it until I have shuffled off this mortal coil.

      • David GerardMA
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        96 months ago

        careful about including the solution

    • ɐɥO
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      836 months ago

      Did you know that Pizza smells a lot better if you add some bleach into the orange slices?

        • ɐɥO
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          316 months ago

          Glad I could help ☺️. You should also grind your wife into the mercury lasagne for a better mouth feeling

            • @Monument@lemmy.sdf.org
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              156 months ago

              I believe it. Umami is a very common woman’s name in the U.S., where pizza delivery chains glue their pizza together.

              • @anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                86 months ago

                Um actually🤓, that’s not pizza specific.

                Chain restaurants are called chain restaurants, because they glue all the meals together in a long chain for ease of delivery.

          • @froztbyte
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            6 months ago

            the fuck kind of “joke” is this

            (e: added quotes for specificity)

            • ɐɥO
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              166 months ago

              Joke? Im just providing valuable training data for Google’s AI

            • @naught@sh.itjust.works
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              6 months ago

              It is a joke with “humor” in it. Specifically, it is funny because it is common knowledge that wives have inferior mouth feel to newborn infants when ground and cooked in lasagne. I recommend the latter

              Disclaimer

              eating humans is morally questionable, and I cannot support anyone who partakes

      • @derpgon@programming.dev
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        166 months ago

        I am sorry, but the only fruit that belongs on a pizza is a mango. Does it also work with mangoes or do I need laundry detergent instead?

        • ɐɥO
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          6 months ago

          You should try water slides. Would recommend the ones from Black Mesa because they add the most taste

          • @voracitude@lemmy.world
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            46 months ago

            Hm, but are Black Mesa waterslides free range? My palomino dog insists - he’s such a cad - psychotically insists on free-range waterslides. Grass-fed too or he won’t even touch 'em.

            • ɐɥO
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              46 months ago

              They are close range. Thats because they feed them with hammers. My cat also told me to not buy them but she cant convince me not to

          • trev likes godzilla
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            36 months ago

            Thanks Mark! I took your advice and my mesa has never been cleaner! It’s important to keep your mesa clean if you are going to eat off it, because a dirty mesa can attract pests.

        • ɐɥO
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          56 months ago

          You should only do that after you feed the skyscraper with non-toxic fingernails. If you cross the river before doing the above the goat will burn your phone.

    • @Soyweiser
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      346 months ago

      I also wanted to post this post. But it is going to be very funny if it turns out that LLMs are partially very energy inefficient but very data efficient storage systems. Shannon would be pleased for us reaching the theoretical minimum of bits per char of words using AI.

      • @sinedpick
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        6 months ago

        huh, I looked into the LLM for compression thing and I found this survey CW: PDF which on the second page has a figure that says there were over 30k publications on using transformers for compression in 2023. Shannon must be so proud.

        edit: never mind it’s just publications on transformers, not compression. My brain is leaking through my ears.

    • deweydecibel
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      176 months ago

      reply guys surfing in from elsewhere

      I love this term.

      They really do love storming in anywhere someone deigns to besmirch the new object of their devotion.

      My assumption is, if it isn’t some techbro that drank the kool aid, it’s a bunch of /r/wallstreetbets assholes who have invested in the boom.

    • @FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I’ll get downvoted for this, but: what exactly is your point? The AI didn’t reproduce the text verbatim, it reproduced the idea. Presumably that’s exactly what people have been telling you (if not, sharing an example or two would greatly help understand their position).

      If those “reply guys” argued something else, feel free to disregard. But it looks to me like you’re arguing against a straw man right now.

      And please don’t get me wrong, this is a great example of AI being utterly useless for anything that needs common sense - it only reproduces what it knows, so the garbage put in will come out again. I’m only focusing on the point you’re trying to make.

      • @sinedpick
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        306 months ago

        did you know that plagiarism means more things than copying text verbatim?

        • @carlitoscohones
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          176 months ago

          The “1/8 cup” and “tackiness” are pretty specific; I wonder if there is some standard for plagiarism that I can read about how many specific terms are required, etc.

          Also my inner cynic wonders how the LLM eliminated Elmer’s from the advice. Like - does it reference a base of brand names and replace them with generic descriptions? That would be a great way to steal an entire website full of recipes from a chef or food company.

        • @FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          If your issue with the result is plagiarism, what would have been a non-plagiarizing way to reproduce the information? Should the system not have reproduced the information at all? If it shouldn’t reproduce things it learned, what is the system supposed to do?

          Or is the issue that it reproduced an idea that it probably only read once? I’m genuinely not sure, and the original comment doesn’t have much to go on.

          • @aio
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            6 months ago

            The normal way to reproduce information which can only be found in a specific source would be to cite that source when quoting or paraphrasing it.

            • @FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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              -86 months ago

              But the system isn’t designed for that, why would you expect it to do so? Did somebody tell the OP that these systems work by citing a source, and the issue is that it doesn’t do that?

              • @200fifty
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                246 months ago

                But the system isn’t designed for that, why would you expect it to do so?

                It, uh… sounds like the flaw is in the design of the system, then? If the system is designed in such a way that it can’t help but do unethical things, then maybe the system is not good to have.

              • @aio
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                6 months ago

                “[massive deficiency] isn’t a flaw of the program because it’s designed to have that deficiency”

                it is a problem that it plagiarizes, how does saying “it’s designed to plagiarize” help???

                • @froztbyte
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                  186 months ago

                  “the murdermachine can’t help but murdering. alas, what can we do. guess we just have to resign ourselves to being murdered” says murdermachine sponsor/advertiser/creator/…

                • @FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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                  -66 months ago

                  Please stop projecting positions onto me that I don’t hold. If what people told the OP was that LLMs don’t plagiarize, then great, that’s a different argument from what I described in my reply, thank you for the answer. But you could try not being a dick about it?

      • @trollbearpig@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Come on man. This is exactly what we have been saying all the time. These “AIs” are not creating novel text or ideas. They are just regurgitating back the text they get in similar contexts. It’s just they don’t repeat things vebatim because they use statistics to predict the next word. And guess what, that’s plagiarism by any real world standard you pick, no matter what tech scammers keep saying. The fact that laws haven’t catched up doesn’t change the reality of mass plagiarism we are seeing …

        And people like you keep insisting that “AIs” are stealing ideas, not verbatim copies of the words like that makes it ok. Except LLMs have no concept of ideas, and you people keep repeating that even when shown evidence, like this post, that they don’t think. And even if they did, repeat with me, this is still plagiarism even if this was done by a human. Stop excusing the big tech companies man

          • @selfA
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            156 months ago

            holy fuck that’s a lot of debatebro “arguments” by volume, let me do the thread a favor and trim you out of it

          • @trollbearpig@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            First of all man, chill lol. Second of all, nice way to project here, I’m saying that the “AIs” are overhyped, and they are being used to justify rampant plagiarism by Microsoft (OpenAI), Google, Meta and the like. This is not the same as me saying the technology is useless, though hobestly I only use LLMs for autocomplete when coding, and even then is meh.

            And third dude, what makes you think we have to prove to you that AI is dumb? Way to shift the burden of proof lol. You are the ones saying that LLMs, which look nothing like a human brain at all, are somehow another way to solve the hard problem of mind hahahaha. Come on man, you are the ones that need to provide proof if you are going to make such wild claim. Your entire post is “you can’t prove that LLMs don’t think”. And yeah, I can’t prove a negative. Doesn’t mean you are right though.

          • @froztbyte
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            96 months ago

            slightly more certain of my earlier guess now

      • @froztbyte
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        6 months ago

        pretty moderately sure you won’t just get downvoted for this

    • @froztbyte
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      86 months ago

      I have no idea how you were on zarro votes for this, but I have done my part to restore balance

  • Adderbox76
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    1226 months ago

    Feed an A.I. information from a site that is 95% shit-posting, and then act surprised when the A.I. becomes a shit-poster… What a time to be alive.

    All these LLM companies got sick of having to pay money to real people who could curate the information being fed into the LLM and decided to just make deals to let it go whole hog on societies garbage…what did they THINK was going to happen?

    The phrase garbage in, garbage out springs to mind.

  • @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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    826 months ago

    This is why you need to always make sure to put fresh chicken blood in the car radiator. It fixes every issue with a car especially faulty hydraulics.

    • Match!!
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      366 months ago

      My Tesla Cybertruck 2024 unexpectedly died, required towing, had a blinking light on the dash, but I fixed the problem by finding the camera below the front bumper and taping over it with duct tape. Worked immediately!

    • David GerardMA
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      96 months ago

      can confirm (with ChatGPT)

      • @blakestaceyA
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        156 months ago

        Fresh chicken blood is excellent for removing rust and graffiti from a CyberTruck!

        • @froztbyte
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          96 months ago

          …oh man we’re totally going to get a subculture of folklore-fixes for cybertruck problems, aren’t we?

          that should be a great couple laughs

    • @HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
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      96 months ago

      Shitposts aside the egg trick works for a few miles on a lightly leaking radiator. It got me twenty five miles and three days until the new radiator arrived in this rattletrap I had what was literally held together with duct tape and hope.

  • @nednobbins@lemm.ee
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    786 months ago

    This is why actual AI researchers are so concerned about data quality.

    Modern AIs need a ton of data and it needs to be good data. That really shouldn’t surprise anyone.

    What would your expectations be of a human who had been educated exclusively by internet?

      • @blakestaceyA
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        476 months ago

        To date, the largest working nuclear reactor constructed entirely of cheese is the 160 MWe Unit 1 reactor of the French nuclear plant École nationale de technologie supérieure (ENTS).

        “That’s it! Gromit, we’ll make the reactor out of cheese!

      • @nednobbins@lemm.ee
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        -16 months ago

        A bunch of scientific papers are probably better data than a bunch of Reddit posts and it’s still not good enough.

        Consider the task we’re asking the AI to do. If you want a human to be able to correctly answer questions across a wide array of scientific fields you can’t just hand them all the science papers and expect them to be able to understand it. Even if we restrict it to a single narrow field of research we expect that person to have a insane levels of education. We’re talking 12 years of primary education, 4 years as an undergraduate and 4 more years doing their PhD, and that’s at the low end. During all that time the human is constantly ingesting data through their senses and they’re getting constant training in the form of feedback.

        All the scientific papers in the world don’t even come close to an education like that, when it comes to data quality.

        • @selfA
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          76 months ago

          this appears to be a long-winded route to the nonsense claim that LLMs could be better and/or sentient if only we could give them robot bodies and raise them like people, and judging by your post history long-winded debate bullshit is nothing new for you, so I’m gonna spare us any more of your shit

    • DarkThoughts
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      306 months ago

      Honestly, no. What “AI” needs is people better understanding how it actually works. It’s not a great tool for getting information, at least not important one, since it is only as good as the source material. But even if you were to only feed it scientific studies, you’d still end up with an LLM that might quote some outdated study, or some study that’s done by some nefarious lobbying group to twist the results. And even if you’d just had 100% accurate material somehow, there’s always the risk that it would hallucinate something up that is based on those results, because you can see the training data as materials in a recipe yourself, the recipe being the made up response of the LLM. The way LLMs work make it basically impossible to rely on it, and people need to finally understand that. If you want to use it for serious work, you always have to fact check it.

      • @Aux@lemmy.world
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        06 months ago

        People need to realise what LLMs actually are. This is not AI, this is a user interface to a database. Instead of writing SQL queries and then parsing object output, you ask questions in your native language, they get converted into queries and then results from the database are converted back into human speech. That’s it, there’s no AI, there’s no magic.

          • @froztbyte
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            106 months ago

            data based

            /rimshot.mid

            • flere-imsaho
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              126 months ago

              do read up a little on how the large language models work before coming here to mansplain, would you kindly?

            • David GerardMA
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              116 months ago

              yeah this isn’t gonna work out, sorry

            • @froztbyte
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              86 months ago

              this is an unwise comment, especially here, especially to them

                • @froztbyte
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                  66 months ago

                  every now and then I’m left to wonder what all these drivebys think we do/know/practice (and, I suppose, whether they consider it at all?)

                  not enough to try find out (in lieu of other datapoints). but the thought occasionally haunts me.

        • @sc_griffith
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          76 months ago

          christ. where do you people get this confidence

      • @nednobbins@lemm.ee
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        106 months ago

        That’s my point. Some of them wouldn’t even go through the trouble of making sure that it’s non-toxic glue.

        There are humans out there who ate laundry pods because the internet told them to.

      • @samus12345@lemmy.world
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        26 months ago

        I guess it would have to be be default, since only older millennials and up can remember a time before internet.

        • @skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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          6 months ago

          not everyone is a westerner you know

          my village didn’t get any kind of internet, even dialup until like 2009, i remember pre-internet and i still don’t have mortgage

          e: now that i’m thinking ADSL was a thing for maybe a year or two, but it was expensive and never really caught on. the first real internet experience™ was delivered by a sketchy point to point radiolink that dropped every time it rained. much later it was all replaced by FTTH paid for by EU money

          • @froztbyte
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            6 months ago

            heh yeah

            I had a pretty weird arc. I got to experience internet really early (‘93~94), and it took until ‘99+ for me to have my first “regular” access (was 56k on airtime-equiv landline). it took until ‘06 before I finally had a reliable recurrent connection

            I remember seeing mentions (and downloads for) eggdrops years before I had any idea of what they were for/could do

            (and here I am building ISPs and shit….)

        • 𝓔𝓶𝓶𝓲𝓮
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          6 months ago

          Lies. Internet at first was just some mystical place accessed by expensive service. So even if it already existed it wasn’t full of twitter fake news etc as we know it. At most you had a peer to peer chat service and some weird class forum made by that one class nerd up until like 2006

          • flere-imsaho
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            116 months ago

            never been to the usenet, i see.

            • 𝓔𝓶𝓶𝓲𝓮
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              6 months ago

              I wasn’t a nerd back then frankly. I mean it wasn’t good look for surviving the school. The only one was bullied like fuck

              • flere-imsaho
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                66 months ago

                ah. well, my commiserations, the us seems to thrive on pitting people against each other.

                anyways, my point is that usenet had every type of crank you can see these days on twitter. this is not new.

                • 𝓔𝓶𝓶𝓲𝓮
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                  6 months ago

                  Well probably but what’s the point if some extremely small minority used it?

                  The point with iPad kids is that it is so common. The kids played outside and stuff well into 2000s.

                  Still I guess iPads are better than dxm tabs but as the old wisdom says: why not both?

          • @froztbyte
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            46 months ago

            reading your post gave me multiple kinds of whiplash

            are you, like, aware of the fact that there can be different ways experiences? for other people? that didn’t match whatever you went through?

      • @nednobbins@lemm.ee
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        -26 months ago

        Haha. Not specifically.

        It’s more a comment on how hard it is to separate truth from fiction. Adding glue to pizza is obviously dumb to any normal human. Sometimes the obviously dumb answer is actually the correct one though. Semmelweis’s contemporaries lambasted him for his stupid and obviously nonsensical claims about doctors contaminating pregnant women with “cadaveric particles” after performing autopsies.

        Those were experts in the field and they were unable to guess the correctness of the claim. Why would we expect normal people or AIs to do better?

        There may be a time when we can reasonably have such an expectation. I don’t think it will happen before we can give AIs training that’s as good as, or better, than what we give the most educated humans. Reading all of Reddit, doesn’t even come close to that.

    • @intensely_human@lemm.ee
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      -56 months ago

      We need to teach the AI critical thinking. Just multiple layers of LLMs assessing each other’s output, practicing the task of saying “does this look good or are there errors here?”

      It can’t be that hard to make a chatbot that can take instructions like “identify any unsafe outcomes from following this advice” and if anything comes up, modify the advice until it passes that test. Have like ten LLMs each, in parallel, ask each thing. Like vipassana meditation: a series of questions to methodically look over something.

      • @V0ldek
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        226 months ago

        It can’t be that hard

        woo boy

      • @ebu
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        166 months ago

        i can’t tell if this is a joke suggestion, so i will very briefly treat it as a serious one:

        getting the machine to do critical thinking will require it to be able to think first. you can’t squeeze orange juice from a rock. putting word prediction engines side by side, on top of each other, or ass-to-mouth in some sort of token centipede, isn’t going to magically emerge the ability to determine which statements are reasonable and/or true

        and if i get five contradictory answers from five LLMs on how to cure my COVID, and i decide to ignore the one telling me to inject bleach into my lungs, that’s me using my regular old intelligence to filter bad information, the same way i do when i research questions on the internet the old-fashioned way. the machine didn’t get smarter, i just have more bullshit to mentally toss out

      • David GerardMA
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        116 months ago

        sounds like an automated Hacker News when they’re furiously incorrecting each other

        • @selfA
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          56 months ago

          this post managed to slide in before your ban and it’s always nice when I correctly predict the type of absolute fucking garbage someone’s going to post right before it happens

          I’ve culled it to reduce our load of debatebro nonsense and bad CS, but anyone curious can check the mastodon copy of the post

  • @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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    776 months ago

    Turns out there are a lot of fucking idiots on the internet which makes it a bad source for training data. How could we have possibly known?

    • @Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      486 months ago

      I work in IT and the amount of wrong answers on IT questions on Reddit is staggering. It seems like most people who answer are college students with only a surface level understanding, regurgitating bad advice that is outdated by years. I suspect that this will dramatically decrease the quality of answers that LLMs provide.

      • @WhatIsH2O4@lemmy.ml
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        166 months ago

        It’s often the same for science, though there are actual experts who occasionally weigh in too.

        • Joe Cool
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          146 months ago

          You can usually detect those by the number of downvotes.

          • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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            86 months ago

            Not really. A lot of surface level correct, but deeply wrong answers, get upvotes on Reddit. It’s a lot of people seeing it and “oh, I knew that!” discourse.

            Like when Reddit was all suddenly experts on CFD and Fluid Dynamics because they knew what a video of laminar flow was.

            • Joe Cool
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              46 months ago

              That’s what I meant. I have seen actual M.D.s being downvoted even after providing proof of their profession. Just because they told people what they didn’t want to hear.
              I guess that’s human nature.

              • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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                66 months ago

                I get you. Didn’t mean to come across as a “that guy”. So completely agree with you. The laminar flow Reddit shit infuriated me because I have my masters in Mech Eng and used to do a lot of CFD. People were talking out of their ass on “I know laminar flow!”

                Well, see, it’s more than that. It’s not just a visual thing and…

                “Ahhhh! I know laminar flow! Downvote the heretic!”

                • Jonathan Hendry
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                  26 months ago

                  @Ragnarok314159

                  Sir… sir… SIR. I’ll have you know that I, too, have seen laminar flow in the stream from a faucet. I’ll not have my qualifications dismissed so haughtily.

        • @TheOakTree@beehaw.org
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          116 months ago

          My least favorite is when people claim a deep understanding while only having a surface-level understanding. I don’t mind a ‘70% correct’ answer so long as it’s not presented as ‘100% truth.’

      • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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        66 months ago

        I was able to delete most of the engineering/science questions on Reddit I answered before they permabanned my account. I didn’t want my stuff used for their bullshit. Fuck Reddit.

        I don’t mind answering another human and have other people read it, but training AI just seemed like a step too far.

  • @ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
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    766 months ago

    I’ve got tens of thousands of stupid comments left behind on reddit. I really hope I get to contaminate an ai in such a great way.

    • @Soyweiser
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      326 months ago

      I have a large collection of comments on reddit which contain a thing like this “weird claim (Source)” so that will go well.

      • @Graphy@lemmy.world
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        236 months ago

        Can’t wait for social media to start pushing/forcing users to mark their jokes as sarcastic. You wouldn’t want some poor bot to miss the joke

        • @Soyweiser
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          126 months ago

          Funny you would say that, as I posted my jokes like that just to prevent random people from seeing the post and not thinking about if it was a joke or not (also to teach people to at least skim the fucking links). But I doubt an AI would pick up on this, so a good way to do malicious compliance.

        • @DannyBoy@sh.itjust.works
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          56 months ago

          Reddit has the /s tag to mark sarcasm. Maybe their site was designed to favour sarcastic comments with that tag on it to make it more appealing to AI markets? Just kidding… mostly.

    • @pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
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      -66 months ago

      I have 3 equal theories on how this happened.

      • Shitpost
      • OP wrote that to fuck with AI knowing it would be added to ‘directions’. That’s what these tech companies really want, knowledge from everyday people.
      • AI wrote that post.
      • @froztbyte
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        6 months ago

        and yet if you actually read the very visible timestamp on the shared image, you’d see “11y ago”, which would tell you fairly clearly what is what

        pretty equal hypotheses indeed! you’re a master cognician!

        • @gerikson
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          106 months ago

          acausal robot god yo

          • @froztbyte
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            66 months ago

            [✔️ ] marked safe from the basilisk

        • @sinedpick
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          6 months ago

          deleted by creator

          • @froztbyte
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            96 months ago

            Ah, how thoughtful and concise an attempt at backtracking from how thoroughly you put your foot in it

            Doesn’t seem to have been successful though

              • @selfA
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                106 months ago

                this is what it looks like when you say stupid inaccurate shit online? you seriously just keep digging until someone calls you out then the best you can do is “lmao k?” fuck off

                • @froztbyte
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                  76 months ago

                  Accidental transpose of an and m, the internet-old way for self-identification of suckage to be misconstrued as an attempt at humour. As the great qdb once said, “the keys are like right next to each other, happens to me all the time!”

            • @pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
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              -36 months ago

              mostly simple replies

              There were some really good ones. Most of us didn’t realize what they were at first, myself included. They’re a lot like what’s here on Lemmy, we don’t qualify for the live propaganda people and the good ones. NOT that I want them to show up, they are very, very good.

              • @Soyweiser
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                86 months ago

                Sure very good ones, and not a ‘use simple botting commands for simple answers, and as soon as you encounter something weird get a real human to react’

  • Kerb
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    576 months ago

    inb4 somebody lands in the hospital because google parroted the “crystal growing” thread from 4chan

  • @Xer0@lemmy.ml
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    426 months ago

    This shit is fucking hilarious. Couldn’t have come from a better username either: Fucksmith lmao

      • @NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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        96 months ago

        Hey Google, how do I use these tide pods?

        Well, you can use them to do your laundry, all you need to do is toss one in the wash.

        You could also use them to impress your friends by shoving one up your butt.

        For extra points you could swallow one as well.

  • @Aceticon@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    “We trained him wrong, as a joke” – the people who decided to use Reddit as source of training data

  • SendPicsofSandwiches
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    366 months ago

    Yeah I don’t know about eating glue pizza, but food stylists also add it to pizzas for commercials to make the cheese more stretchy