Summary
Churches across the U.S. are grappling with dwindling attendance and financial instability, forcing many to close or sell properties.
The Diocese of Buffalo has shut down 100 parishes since the 2000s and plans to close 70 more. Nationwide, church membership has dropped from 80% in the 1940s to 45% today.
Some churches repurpose their land to survive, like Atlanta’s First United Methodist Church, which is building affordable housing.
Others, like Calcium Church in New York, make cutbacks to stay open. Leaders warn of the long-term risks of declining community and support for churches.
Good.
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Fantastic news, less grifting. Now shutdown mega churches.
Good.
Great news! Maybe we can finally tax these cults as well.
Taxing them would force more closures. Do it.
Considering scientology has their tendrils in a fair bit of Hollywood, that might actually backfire on government coffers. If they demand their members strike, the film industry is going to be in for pain.
No way would SAG strike over Scientology getting taxed. Scientology are parasites and we’d all be better off without them.
Not SAG, just the cultists. There’s enough of them in prominent roles that it would cause financial damage (including to themselves), delays, and problems.
If it’s not a real strike, then they’re replaceable. A “bye Felicia” sort of situation.
That’s easier said than done when it’s a lead actor refusing to work during filming. They’ll be breaching a contract, sure, but replacing them is going to waste money and time in recasting, rescheduling, refilming, etc.
Would they actually do it, knowing they’re in for a multimillion dollar lawsuit? Probably. The Cult of Scientology practices excommunication, and it’s a strong motivator for indoctrinees.
No, we don’t want to tax them. Remember “no taxation without representation”. Taxing them means allowing their influence in government.
Not to say that they aren’t already influencing our government, but taxing them just opens up the floodgates for it to be done on an official level.
That’s the point. They are influencing the government by picking political sides, which officially disqualifies them from tax exempt status but that’s something that’s never been enforced.
Does it? What makes them different from explicitly political nonprofits? Or do those not get tax-exempt status?
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We tax businesses. We shouldn’t be allowing businesses or churches to influence government. I believe “no taxation without representation” is meant only to be applied to people.
No representation without taxation
As churches decline we’re losing what is, essentially, a free communal space. Church was a place where people built community.
We need to replace it with something, not just cheer because a shitty religion is dying.
So you’re saying we should have more boardgaming conventions?
I’m all in on that proposal.
Not conventions. A convention requires paying for a convention space, and that requires making attendees pay for admittance or getting sponsors to pay in their stead so they can sell products. That’s not community.
The power of churches is they are entirely free and not commodified. That’s what makes them communal. We’d need something like a communal boardgame hall, supported by donations that anyone can come to without needing to pay anything.
Where I live, the library serves this purpose. They even have advertised game nights for various age groups on weekly to monthly basis. Maybe reach out to your public library and see if they would host.
That sounds amazing. We have nothing like that here.
Do you mean that you have no library, or the library doesn’t have a game night? If the latter, you could try to start it; it’d just be a matter of getting their permission to use the space, setting a schedule, and putting up a sign. It might not take off immediately; it’d probably help if you brought a friend or two the first few times, but if there’s interest in your community, I bet folks would start coming once it became clear something was happening.
I mean my local library has, like, six tables and 10 book shelves. My town has 1200 people. What you’re talking about isn’t realistic.
We’d need something like a communal boardgame hall, supported by donations that anyone can come to without needing to pay anything.
All I’m getting at is, you have this - it’s the library. If you have the population to support a boardgame hall, you have the population to support a gathering at the library. Even if this doesn’t apply to you, it surely applies to other people who might not have considered the possibility.
Seconded. This would be far more productive than a religion with an obvious agenda/motive, you could build real communities without ties to guilt, tithing, less freedom, etc.
I like the way you think!
The power of churches is they are entirely free and not commodified. That’s what makes them communal. We’d need something like a communal boardgame hall, supported by donations that anyone can come to without needing to pay anything.
I think you don’t understand “Free”. They weren’t free.
Use required, at the very least, selling your soul. But more pragmatically, a flat 10% tax- which frequently funded ostentatious lifestyles of the priests and pastors; and sacrificing your children to pedos.
But sure. It created “community”…
Use required, at the very least, selling your soul.
But since souls aren’t real it was free.
But more pragmatically, a flat 10% tax-
Tithes are voluntary. Taxes are enforced at the tip of a sword or the barrel of a gun. Quiet different.
I think they meant soul as in personhood or however you want to put it, its metaphorical speech ya pedant.
Secondly tithes are socially enforced to what degree depends on what group we are talking about but at minimum there is an expectation that you pay it, you also get fuck all out of it making it a completely empty transaction unlike taxes which gives roads, fire departments, libraries, et cetera.
Okay, but they did get something out of it. They got the Church, and the services it provided them. We can replace that with tax funded secular institutions, but it doesn’t seem like that’s happening.
Instead the church dies and nothing replaces it.
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Around here the churches require you to submit your personal finances so that they can tell you how much you need to tithe in order to attend services.
What the actual fuck lol‽
I remember my roommate telling me his fiance was running around the house looking for the checkbook just before church. She was beside herself. He was like, WTH, I have cash if you cannot find it, we’ll just throw that in the plate. She was like, “NO, they track the amount, it has to be a CHECK.”
He was nominally Protestant, and she was Catholic. He was quite taken aback by this rather grotesque practice…these days, do they have a QR code to scan and take cash apps? I think I can guess the answer…
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reopen bowling allies, small music venues and community dive bars.
i.e. places you need to spend money
Indeed, it’s a real quandary. The current choices for “public” spaces have mostly been a choice between religion or commerce.
If only there were more truly public spaces for people to congregate that were neither. Where just congregating and just doing something together (or alone, but among others in the same building) was not considered a criminal act (“loitering”).
I think about this a lot. And yes, for things like board games and other meetups. A well lit, warm, safe space for people to meet in public, and without having to engage in commerce. Without having to profess a belief in some creed.
Honestly a community hall that fills similar roles to the library as others mention would be awesome. You could get people running community brunches on weekends, you could get holiday parties and rooms for groups to meet. You could use it to host food not bombs or other food giveaways. You could let it be what churches are supposed to be, but replace the pastor and pews with a meal space and some administrators
Hell yeah, my wife won’t play Arcs with me. I fully support more board gaming.
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That “community” is a judgmental indoctrinating shithole that destroys people.
Good riddance.
Okay, but that community also kept me from being homeless as a child. I got to eat food when otherwise I wouldn’t.
We need to replace it, we can’t just let community die with nothing in its place.
Yes. Schools and libraries.
Neither my local library nor school has a weekly get together where we all hang out and talk.
Also, uh, not everyone has kids. Do they not deserve community?
Bullshit. Libraries have book & game clubs. They host speakers, authors, and musicians. They offer short classes in typing, office software, graphics software. All of it is free of charge. You could easily spend 4-5 nights a week hanging out at a library chatting of you wanted.
Yeah they don’t all do that. I was suggesting we expand the usage of libraries and schools to be the community center everywhere, because it has proven to work in many places. And it can do more.
Yeah, sadly, I remember growing up in an extremely rural area and the “library” there was literally one room, almost nothing in the way of content, no activities, and not even inter-library loan. Thankfully, my mother worked in the next county over, so we’d use that library system.
When I contrast that library with the Jefferson County Library and Denver County Library in Colorado…it’s breathtaking. Those two library systems are quite awesome! But I know there is quite a range of offerings that are called “libraries” in this country, depending on the tax base and/or population.
My little library that serves the 1200 people spread out over seven villages in my county doesn’t have any of that.
Do you think I’m lying? Or am I just too stupid to know what the little library connected to the elementary school offers?
Wow congrats! And did you know not all churches are seen as community centers? You’re arguing against one persons anecdote with your own.
I doubt you are lying; I’ve seen very tiny libraries in my day, including the one that was nearest to me growing up…
My local library has weekly reading days, crochet club, adult focused book clubs, and regular events.
But the thing is that people in the community helped start those things. If your library doesn’t have any you should probably talk to them about starting something. I’m sure they’d be more than happy to be involved and increase the amount of people that visit!
The school was about what you said feeding kids. And yes, a lot of libraries have reservable meeting space now. More should for exactly the reason you are saying. I am agreeing with you about needing to fill the void, and saying we should expand schools and libraries to better and more consistently do that. Currently they probably only do that in blue states.
It sounded like you were telling me that there wasn’t a problem, because schools and libraries exist.
Schools and libraries aren’t filling the void. They can, if we make them, but it’s not automatic.
Yeah, my bad. They do in some places, and I want them to do so in more. I also would like to reduce thier dependence on local government for funding.
Libraries actually almost always have multiple events a week. You may want to check your local branch out. Also, you’re describing a very extroverted interest.
We need more than that. We need places where people go regularly and choose to interact with each other. Church sucks, but seeing your neighbors, engaging in community activities like celebrating births and marriages and holidays and just regularly seeing each other and being reminded of your connections to each other are important. People talk about modern isolation and by giving up community activities and spaces that’s what we get.
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I have seen birthday parties in the reservable spaces of libraries. Sounds perfect. Just need to expand that style of library to more places.
That charity likely came from the community, not just the church. In my little town I can’t give money or food to any groups other than churches. So that’s where my money goes, despite not belonging to a church.
You’re right, and I am not defending the Church. We need ways for the community to express its charity without the church, because the church is dying.
My daydream is that the building remains open, the community remains welcome, there are helpful lectures on dealing with life’s hassles, and potluck dinners in the basement, and it’s all on a voluntary pay-what-you-can basis — sorta like a church, only without the god.
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Hm, community co-ops? Do tell more.
It didn’t use to be. I remember most churches on the 80s had a message of, “try to be a good person” and then everyone would hang out and chat. Pretty chill space. Can’t stand going to any churches now.
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We’ll replace it with more commercial real estate squatting.
See you in the Library.
The library isn’t community, you can’t even talk to people there. It’s a quiet place by its very nature.
And squatting? That’s better, but it’s ephemeral. You can’t get attached to your squat, the cops can come at any moment and then everyone has to bail and find a new squat. That’s not good enough.
The library isn’t community, you can’t even talk to people there. It’s a quiet place by its very nature.
You do know that the vast majority of libraries have events going on every week? From dozens of book clubs through movie clubs. Heck, my local library had a troupe of mongolian gymnasts come through that was ridiculously fun.
Libraries are way more a public forum than churches ever will be. Go to any bible belt church in the south wearing a rainbow and you likely won’t even be let in through the front door. Or walking in with the wrong color skin.
You do know that the vast majority of libraries have events going on every week?
No. I have no idea what you’re talking about. Maybe if you’re in a city? My local rural library does jack shit, it just has a few shelves and a computer lab. That’s not community, not the way the local rural church is with soup kitchens and holiday events.
It sounds like your library is underfunded, but you should check with them anyway because they probably are doing things, you just don’t hear about them for various reasons. Local governments love to cut library funds and then use the lack of use to cut it further, and making it hard to know what events your library does is part of that.
My local library suffers from the same issue, but we at least have a community center the town built with meeting rooms and a gym that you can use for events. The closest city just renovated one of their libraries to include a second floor with meeting rooms and a cafe. I think another one had kitchen space added to it.
Churches are really just community space that got a pass from conservatives and capitalists in the rush to commidify every part of the human experience.
Every library is underfunded, and yes, that’s because the right hates communal spaces. We don’t have a community center, there’s like, 1200 people spread out over a 15 mile strip of seven different villages. There’s the church, and nothing else.
Skill issue. The local library in my home town does a readalong every weekend and a bunk fund every month.
I cannot speak for the South, but I do see that quite a few churches in Colorado seem to have prominent signs outside saying “EVERYONE is welcome” etc.
I imagine like Scouts of America, many churches have to adapt or die. But Colorado is definitely not the South…
sure. but how long are they welcome for? And how much do you need to align your culture and beliefs and how act and talk and dress, and even sway to the music, to stay welcome?
Even in churches that supposedly celebrate diversity… there will always be some sort of overriding homegenousness. Even if it starts with “we recognize the value in people different from us”, anyone who doesn’t gets asked to leave; and it’s just a different kind of sameness.
Oh, of course, but I’d say that holds true for so many institutions. Just try to truly be yourself on the job, for example… LOL.
But yeah. This is probably why I don’t go to church.
Churches aren’t community centres and they are highly exclusionary. Libraries are vastly undersold to the public but they do still offer TONNES of services and hold all kinds of community events. I’ve personally seen them as part community centre, part summer camp, or part theatre, among other things. They offer programs to help the homeless, they let you use the internet for free, and they are places of learning that aren’t spewing nonsense. They do so much for the community and they don’t even require you to do or believe anything in return.
Churches only have as much of a community as anything else that gathers weekly. My weekly social dances have the same thing, someone else might have a big game night at a board/cardgame shop, and others may go to the pub. One place near me has a giant folk music jam you can just roll up to to play or watch. Churches aren’t only not the only place to go for community but they’re also not even that good at it.
This fact (and I see this in the Denver area, too - the libraries here have always just blown me away in their excellence, although maybe some areas have even better ones) is why I think the libraries are under assault by the right. They seem to just fundamentally hate the idea of building healthy community as an alternative to the only public interaction that seems to compute for them, and that is commerce.
The first murmurings I heard of this was right after 9/11 - there seemed to be this concern about terrorists using the Internet w/o monitoring or something. Also, they were worried about “porn”. And “freeloaders” reading books/watching movies without paying Amazon! In any case, it seemed rather piecemeal, but you could tell that the qons probably never really loved libraries (just like their hatred of the USPS) but were trying to formulate something to put an end to it.
Then, in more recent years, they seemed to have arrived at the trans thing and this narrative of librarians being “groomers” and they have really cranked up the assault on librarians and libraries…
It’s simple, they can’t fathom the idea that they wouldn’t get something in direct return for doing a job and that’s the corr philosophy of libraries. They will, of course, underpay any and all staff and claim “that’s market rate and you should be happy” so we aren’t allowed to be mad when we don’t get paid.
Libraries are a thing that genuinely exist for the love the game. Every conservative so broken by the system that they genuinely believe that the only way to enjoy work is by being lazy, because any passion has been stripped from them, cannot understand this. They cannot understand doing something and allowing that betterment to come around later to help fund the library.
Conservatives are wildy unimaginative and full of a hatred they’re too emotionally stunted to control. They turn that hatred on the weak and vulnerable instead of their bosses who kick them in the teeth every morning and in the ass when they leave work later. Libraries are happy places, and they left true joy behind a long time ago.
I agree with all of that. It is fairly obvious to me that a lot of qons just generally hate humans that are not their immediate family (and in some cases, they hate even them). See how they treat the notion of ANY public spaces, unless they are of the xtian kind. I mean, the notion of making benches impossible to sleep on, so that the homeless have nowhere to go. The way they treat libraries. And public schools.
I think some of this hatred of public services/goods even underlies some of their hatred of USPS, since it is something that benefits nearly everyone.
One one level, I kind of understand how some uppercrust qon douches like Elon might have an aversion to public goods because they have accrued such obscene wealth that they don’t need them. But when the person that is barely scraping by, but glued to Faux and waving their silly donvict flags? I just don’t understand how these people are dragged into the same mindset. I get that a few whites/men get annoyed at seeing anyone else benefit from government services in any way whatsoever, so I guess that is at least part of it.
Churches aren’t good enough, but the are certainly community centers.
My weekly social dances have the same thing, someone else might have a big game night at a board/cardgame shop, and others may go to the pub.
We don’t have any of that shit, and a pub is not a communal space. You have to pay for it.
We have a church. A shrinking church that will die when all the boomers die. That’s it.
Ok, so it sounds like the church is a bad community investment but if the building is repurposed into a community centre run by the municipality then that’s the best option, no? It can even hold religious services for multiple religions now that it’s just a building.
Also you could totally have dances in a church! The social dances where I’m from are held in the basement of a church on Fridays. Before it moved to a community centre the organization where I live now held them in a church that had been converted like I mentioned above.
Your issue is a lack of imagination, not a lack of church.
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Oooo fuck yea that’s awesome! The conversion in England sounds fun too :P
But yea that’s very uplifting to hear about, I’m glad the architect to make that work and that the town has taken to it so readily.
you misunderstand it’s the corporate landlords squatting on the prime real estate they snapped up from the church so their competition can’t move into town. I’m sure they’ll attempt to murder anyone trying to survive on their vacant land.
My daughters (public) school choir had to pay $2500 to rent a church for their winter performance last year. Well, didn’t have to, but the teacher wanted a different space than the school and apparently everyone thought that was an acceptable amount of money for a 2 hour performance. I was pretty upset when I learned the cost.
Like , say, a community center? I took karate when I was 12 at my local community center.
Absolutely.
But every rural shithole community has a church. Only cities have community centers.
That’s opportunity cost - they would have money for a community center if they didn’t spend it on the church.
They don’t have the money to spend on the church either, that’s why churches are closing.
Per capita contributions haven’t gone down nearly as much as attendance, though. Churches are losing money because the public is rejecting them on principle.
Not what I meant.
I mean, people aren’t going to church, and they’re just spending the money on themselves. Bills and shit. People who stop going to church aren’t donating it to their community center, which means community centers are not replacing churches.
I thought we were discussing what could be? Or what ought to be? I understand that community centers have not already replaced churches.
We need to replace it with something, not just cheer because a shitty religion is dying.
Why not both?
We aren’t doing both. That was my point?
We need a new religion that worships reality with clerics who are trained in humanities, epistemology, and combatting disinformation.
EDIT: Apparently reality isn’t as popular as I’d hoped.
As much as I’m happy to see churches go, I agree with this. I used to go to church even as a non believer for this reason. Outreach into the community is much easier when backed by an organization that is trusted, and has resources at their disposal.
While I like that the church is less popular, you are right. A sense of community is needed for a social species like us humans. This is how street gangs work, they recruit young and probably lost/lonely kids and make them feel like they are part of something.
In sectarian societies, there are community centres, free library’s and non-religious community groups with public spaces.
Even in Capitalistic societies, shopping centres and shopping malls are a place for communities to grow.
The myth that Community requires Region was created by religions so they could more easily control their indoctrinated (just like capitalism).
When did I say community requires religion?
Also my society doesn’t have jack shit. We’re all alone and it’s only getting worse. There’s nothing for me. If all y’all have community that’s fucking great, but so many of us are being left behind.
It’s not just religions drying up, it’s all of the old hierarchical social clubs. Their membership are aging and dying off, and they’re not doing anything to recruit Millennials or GenZ. The internet opened up vast opportunities for non-work social contact and relaxed the demand that people gather in one physical place at a fixed time with rules to minimize chaos.
Okay, we are physical beings and we need to gather in physical spaces.
We can’t all just be alone in our homes screaming at each other on the internet.
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they weren’t free. Attendance required a 10% income tax.
Only in Germany. In America, that is optional. In fact, most of these closings could be avoided if all members gave 5%. Average is much lower.
Just because no one is taking it directly from the paycheck does not mean it’s “optional”. Religions in general, and Christianity in particular are very good at coercing donations.
Most the places that are closing are closing because they never managed to get kids in and brainwashed and their core followers are aging out of an income.
Is this a Catholic thing? I’ve been forced to attend many different churches and none of them forced my family to pay anything.
It’s not free, though… I’ve watched my mother give obscene amounts of money to the church. She even did it when I was growing up, and we had NO extra money to give.
So yeah, cheer. Replace these with something better, like an affinity club with upfront dues that are significantly cheaper.
We have to actively replace them, it won’t happen on its own.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don’t know what the replacement would be, however. I keep thinking about that when I think about trying to bootstrap something in my community. Something that somehow (?) is supported to keep the heat and the lights on, and everything clean and very safe, the taxes paid, but provides a place to: 1) meet-up for book clubs 2) has a maker/hacker space 3) Has break-outs for hosting meetups along with projectors, etc. 4) provides open source training of various kinds. 5) Throws social functions, with food and modest amounts of alcohol… 6) A place with trained staff that put on things for kids to do after school lets out or in the summers
Something with wifi, where access to snacks/coffee is also possible, where people can hang out all day and not feel any guilt for buying nothing or only one coffee and just being in the presence of others.
In some cases, I see libraries trying to serve some of these functions. In some cases, I have seen some “community centers” or the building owned by Elks/Masons also trying for a subset of this… if there is some nonprofit or b corp out there making something like this happen at scale, I’d love to hear it. I’ve been part of meetups that struggle to find/keep spaces they can use, often they have to rely on someone being employed at some company or another.
But yes, I’m no champion of churches. I also don’t want every single public space to essentially dwindle to nothing. Malls are not that - and they are mostly dwindling, too. Starbucks is not that. If the only remaining public space is only trails and maybe the post office (if Musk et al don’t kill that too) and the DMV, what a sad state of affairs…
Boardroom meme:
Boss: Church attendance is down. What can we do to turn this around?
Person 1: discreetly move pedophile pastors around to hide their proclivities?
Person 2: assure the congregation that we still hate gay people
Person 3: follow the teachings of Christ and show love and charity to our neighbors regardless of who they are
Person 3 is thrown out the stained glass window.
Person 2: Why don’t we literally do what Saudi Arabia / Iran does but Christian
I remember when someone (was it on Pharyngula?) coined the term “fatwa envy”. And maaaaaaan, did that really summarize it just so much. You can tell that some NatCs are downright jealous of what their conservative Abrahamic cousins can get away with in other countries.
shocked Pikachu face
I chuckled that the window in this meme was stained glass, instead of the highrise like it usually is.
I was pretty happy to see the Atlanta church mentioned in the article who appears to be opting for the third option!
The United Methodist Church in my town is similar. However, the American UMC just had a schism, where all the homophobes left for their new denomination.
And nothing of value was lost
It’s weird how history rhymes - see the formation of the Southern Baptists…
Pit of vipers closes due to insufficient snakebite volunteers.
chef’s kiss
Some churches repurpose their land to survive, like Atlanta’s First United Methodist Church, which is building affordable housing.
That’s something more churches should do. They always preach about “helping the poor” but most don’t give a fuck.
If every church took in two homeless people, there would be no homeless in America…
They’re more than happy to take in everyone’s dollars, though. Can’t get enough of those.
Reverend Larry:
I DO want your money, because god wants your money.
One of the best things my family church did to reach out to the community was running a low-cost daycare center in our tiny rural town. It helped local families, bolstered the church’s finances, and brought new families into the church.
Unfortunately, it was an Assembly of God church with toxic teachings that I’m still working through decades later. So … straights and roundabouts, I guess.
People often make the argument that churches do a lot of community service and charity work. Why, then, do you need to include the fairy tale nonsense of mystical deities? We can totally have organized groups of volunteers that do nice things for people, WITHOUT the mythological element involved.
I’ve since left the church and I don’t disagree with you. It shouldn’t be necessary to involve religion in providing needed services to a community.
But I also haven’t seen a lot of non-religious organizations offering practical services directly to the people who need them the most.
Don’t get me wrong: there are a lot of great nonprofit organizations that do amazing work. But they aren’t necessarily offering subsidized daycare or affordable housing on a scale that meets the needs of the communities where they operate. And very few of them are reaching out to people in rural areas. Churches still have something of a monopoly in those places.
I think this is largely due to the fact that faith communities have more cohesion than secular groups. All of the small secular groups I’ve been involved with have fallen apart after a year or two because the bonds that hold them together are simply not as strong as those in churches.
The whole bit about giving 10% of your income to the church as a duty to God is a fantastic racket. It means that the true believers think that God is keeping a ledger, and therefore they are more likely to support their church financially. So people in churches are literally more invested in their religious community, which gives their church the resources to provide services as social outreach.
And that’s not even getting into the power structures within the church and the role of a pastor as leader (that was missing from all of the secular groups I had experience with). Or the organizing power of a group of dedicated little old church ladies.
There are a lot of elements that churches are better at harnessing. And I haven’t encountered a good solution for creating a secular organization with the same kind of strength.
Strictly speaking, you don’t. Several denominations tried to throw out the mysticism in the 60s to significant backlash of the congregations. Mainstream denominational seminaries are actually pretty open minded from what i hear.
The triune mysticism can be looked at as an act by many denominations, it can’t be dropped because not enough of us skeptics engage with the religious systems locally to justify changing theology. If official positions becoke “well the trinity isn’t actually…” they risk loosing significant numbers of members. Changing that requires skeptical people to earnestly engage with churches and their congregations.
Those poor children. Churches and religion should be no where near education.
Almost like taxing them would have been better for society all along.
Government grifters and charlatan faith leaders have completely debased the idea of ‘Christianity’ over the past few decades to the point where most people associate Christianity as some joke religion that no one really takes seriously.
Personally, I see anyone who proclaims themselves as Christian as a liar, bigot, narcissist and someone lacking in empathy for others. Sure you can tell me about Jesus Christ but I associate anyone who claims him are just paying lip service to the religion and that they are just psychotic sociopaths who are only interested in power and money.
I don’t mind Churches dying out because they’ve basically destroyed their own religion themselves.
Unfortunately, humans are a dumb species that rely heavily on wanting to believe in something so once this religion dies out another one will take its place and repeat the process. It’s been happening for thousands of years so I don’t think we’ll stop that tradition any time soon.
The small churches that are more likely to actually be charitable and are more likely to be inclusive will shut down. The bigot-run megachurches will be just fine.
Crazy how the same thing happens to businesses when times are tough. The only difference is that businesses have to pay taxes…
Crazy that it takes the church shitting down for them to actually follow gods message of giving to the poor.
There’s shit down everywhere!
it’s shit turtles all the way down
They are working behind the scenes to push women back into the kitchen and stoking white nationalist rage.
And yet, somehow, they still make all the policy in this country.
A very vocal and very active minority I guess.
Interesting that they can’t stay afloat financially, because they don’t pay taxes.
OK I’ll make you a deal you no longer pay taxes but your full pay gets cut to 1/4 of what it is now.
Why do you think not paying taxes makes magic money appear? If people aren’t attending and donating they don’t have money to not pay taxes on in the first place.
80 to 45 is less than a 50% decrease
The nationwide statistics don’t tell the complete story, as local situations can vary significantly. While some congregations may be minimally affected, stable or growing, others are experiencing severe declines that threaten their sustainability. A dramatic decline in one location (such as a 90% drop in attendance at a single church) doesn’t necessarily reflect the national average.
And also you’re literally missing the point even if what you said was true for a given church, since I bet you wouldn’t want a 35% pay cut on your entire wage just to not pay taxes anymore either, and that depending on your circumstances that could affect your ability to live critically.
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The internet is killing God but giving birth to a new age of conspiracy theorists.
So, not much has changed.
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Agreed. I welcome this, but I will withhold being optimistic that it means that it is because critical thinking skills are proliferating throughout the population…sure, it should be, because for decades now we have the ability to easily debunk really stupid claims nearly instantly, there are a lot of people making a lot of money pushing complete nonsense at people with algorithms now…
If I were to guess at the real reason it’s because, well, there is a lot of entertainment that church is in competition with: games, streaming services, social media, sportsball, reality TV and so on…and face it, attending church is generally dull as dirt.
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Ha ha, the jet ski really paints a picture. The Righteous Gemstones did have those ridiculous monster trucks, but I don’t remember a jet ski!
Theist’s are killing god.
Hip Hip
Hooray
There’ll be no Weezer in this thread…
I pray to God everyday that i can live long enough to witness the day humanity completely abandons religion. Inshallah🙏
You will never witness this. God Emperor Leto is the Holy personification of Shai-Hulud and the Orange Catholic Bible is the only truth in the deep dark known Universe. The only faith humanity shall ever have constantly at its side is war.
Oh no! So, anyway…
