I hate this stereotype; it blames bigotry against homosexuals on homosexuals.
So its not entirely just a stereotype. They have done studies on it, and it holds remarkably true. I’ll see if I can find one of them for you.
Edited to add a link to the study: Homophobia study
Thank you for citing sources, remarkable that there is statistically an interaction. I wonder what other common phenomena people may be in denial about?
You know that’s literally not what the study says right… ?
It says there is a correlation between homophobia and sexual arousal from homosexual visual stimulus. I’m not sure what you mean?
It does not say “most homophobes are gay”.
Which is the topic of the thread.
Nah, openly gay homosexuals aren’t bigoted, it’s only the ones in denial.
Gay people in denial are still gay though. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be in denial
Well said.
oh so much better, it’s just closeted people that are acceptable targets!
Not closeted people, just those in denial. If you’re in the closet, that means you’re scared of coming out, whereas someone who’s in denial has some unhealthy reason to want to not be gay that leads them to hate that part of themselves.
ahh, so much better
How about we just attack homophobic people for being homophobic, instead of using gay as an insult in a roundabout way of calling them a hypocrite?
As a queer person I never understood this
They are not being attacked for being gay. They are specifically attacked for being homophobic.
TERFS are also not being attacked for being women, nor is attacking TERFS an attack against all women either.
Attacking someone who’s bi or homosexual in denial and overcompensating that with hatred says absolutely nothing about gay people as a whole, or implies in any way that being gay is problematic.
And to be completely honest here, it feels kinda presumptuous the way this is being argued. Almost like it shouldn’t be allowed to criticise someone gay for any reason at all. Queer people are a very diverse group of people and obviously we have assholes, too. It’s not doing anyone a favor if we act like that’s impossible.
They are specifically attacked for being homophobic.
No, they are attacked for (assumingly) being gay
Maybe you and I are having different conversations then. I’ve never experienced it being taken this way.
I just wish there was a clean way to diss them for weaponising their self-hatred. If you think of a really pithy insult for people who externalise their negative feelings, please share with the rest of us, it’s badly needed.
weaponising their self-hatred
But it’s also just regular hatred, same reason you can’t call racist people the N word.
Even if there was a slur for hypocrites, that’s still just an ad hominem instead of attacking them for their behavior (the actual problem)
I don’t know what comment you meant to reply to, but I was pretty specifically talking about attacking people for what they do.
Arachnophobia is so stupid. Just let the spiders get married
Suggesting all homophobes are gay is a great way for the straight community to avoid taking responsibility for their role in perpetrating homophobia. Most homophobes are straight haters.
It’s also a way to tell gay people “really, this is your fault”
No “normal” person (like me!) would be homophobic, if they are homophobic they’re probably “abnormal” (just like you!!!)
(sarcasm disclaimer: this is meant to be interpreted sarcastically)
Secretly gay/bisexual. Closeted. Self-hating, spreading their hate. Trying to cling onto a precarious hold on the straight lifestyle, they want to eliminate “temptation”. Dudes, it’s only tempting if you’re already bi.
At least on the right it seems that way, with the Republican convention regularly crashing grindr.
And that is still a fraction of the community. The fact remains straight people outnumber LGBT+ folks by a considerable margin thus most haters are just hateful straight folks.
People who publicly identify as straight outnumber people who publicly identify as LGBTQ+, but the percentage of not solely straight rises in younger generations. Is it because of the vaccines (?!) or might it be that if you reduce the social penalty for admitting you’re bi, the frequency of public identification as such rises?
Bill And The Romans Talk About Sexuality | The Eaters Of Light | Doctor Who
"I’m just ordinary… you know, like men and women…
“Well isn’t this all very modern.”
“Hey, not everyone has to be modern. I think it’s really sweet that you’re so restricted.”
Superb. Thank you for the link.
or closeted straight people, closeted straight people might skew the statistics a bit.
Definitely true, but when it comes to the most extreme homophobes, there’s no hatred like self-hatred.
I think that homophobes are jealous of gays. Jealous and envious to the point of hate. I think that homophobes span the entire human range of desires but at some point the thing that they desire the most was denied to them because it is “evil”. And they just can’t fucking handle the idea of gay/trans/ect out there just doing what they desire and not being punished for it. I think for many of them, homosexual and bisexual desires are definitely the issue, but there’s plenty of straight homophobes with desires that they have been told is evil. And then there’s the plenty who actually want truly evil shit.
But you are correct, it’s not just closeted gays hating on themselves, it just happens that those seem to be the ones that seem to be the most vocal and visible.they dint say All homophobes are gay, its just alot of them. the most outspoken ones tend to be the ones in the closet, or the ones that act very strangely around the notion of being gay. for the latter, i saw a video of a bodybuilder who was Hiding his face with a surgical mask(way before pandemic), everyone commented how he afraid of being gay, eventhough he showing off his body.(which is wierd in itself, because asians are pretty conservative as well)
As a child, I was terribly afraid of spiders. Until I did a science project on them and discovered I was an arachnophile after all and I’ve never looked back.
I’m an arachnophobe when I just walked through her web and don’t know where the fuck she is. From a distance, though, I’m all ‘Wow, what a wonderful creature!’
The spider spinning a web in front of my door is an asshole. The one eating things inside my house is a bro. The one guarding my rose bush is beautiful.
If you’re spider-curious, take a look at Travis McEnery. If you think your an arachnophobe, check him out too; exposure therapy worked for Chill and youtube is a safe distance from the spiders.
Almost like the first one isn’t true either.
This study kind of illustrates it may be true. It’s not a huge sample size, but its difficult to deny there is at least a significant correlation.
That’s not what the study says??
I don’t have access to the full text, but it certainly doesn’t state most homophobes display attraction to gay porn.
It says there is a correlation. If 5% of the population is gay and 10% of homophobes are gay, then homophobia is correlated with being gay.
But stating most homophobes are gay would require evidence that >50% are gay, not just that there exists a correlation.
As noted, its a small sample size, and even in that sample size the homophobic participants exhibited “arousal” to all sexual stimuli.
I don’t think that makes someone gay.
You also have to consider the subset of self described homophobes who would consent to having a device strapped to their genitalia while they are shown gay porn…
They may not be a representative of the larger group.
The key factor is that only the homophobes experienced arousal when shown gay porn.
Also, a small sample size doesn’t instantly invalidate a study.
The key factor is that it neither answers nor proves the claim. Linking it shows a failure to read even the abstract.
wierdly how you dont think homophobic people are not gay themselves, you do realize how many people have sham marriages/relationships because they are secretely gay. if you go to any platform where gay people of experiences coming out, many of them had relationships with straight people to appear straight.
This is a strawman, and not what I claimed at all. Please read my comments more carefully if you wish to understand what I am saying.
Statistically speaking though…
Yeah… statistically speaking… its not true.
Well, secretly bi then.
Why is there such a high frequency of republican conventions crashing grindr, if it’s not men with repressed desires for man-on-man sex that daren’t reveal their location in their home town?
Why do conservatives claim that the gay lifestyle is a choice, if they themselves didn’t choose the straight lifestyle?
If they were completely straight, why would they think that seeing gay relationships in books entices young people into gay relationships? Surely someone 100% straight would be unaffected and it wouldn’t occur to them that it was attracting young people who weren’t already that way inclined.
Every fear conservatives have of gay people only makes sense if they’re coming from a bisexual perspective themselves.
Imagine you don’t find lizards at all appealing as pets and you think the vast majority of people feel the same way. Do you complain when they show people who own lizards on the television on the grounds that it entices lizard ownership? No! Now imagine you find lizard ownership really really appealing but you think it’s a disaster ecologically and cruel for the lizard or something. Now you’re writing angry social media posts saying they ought not to depict that on television because it only encourages it.
Purely straight men have nothing whatsoever to fear from gay men. Only reluctant bi men worry about it and ask society to remove the temptation.
Where did the stigma come from initially in your little fantasy world?
Conservatives. Conservatives are renowned for stigmatising LGBT folk out here in the real world. I thought most people knew this, but apparently not you.
But only gay conservatives according to you.
And the reason they stigmatise queer people is … because they’re conservative.
If you insist that according to logic homophobia comes from queer people in denial, you need to bridge that last gap to avoid circular reasoning.
I never claimed they were at all logical. Conservatives? Nope.
To actually answer your question, though, it’s a vicious cycle passed down from generation to generation. A bit of teasing others for being different is normal in children because of the fear of others, but responsible adults and parents teach children that that’s not OK and a lot of people learn to share and be kind. Not so much conservatives. Conservatism is a developmental/learning disorder.
The ones that go on as adults to be loud homophobes and start making all kinds of claims about how it’s a choice and objecting to the existence of gay literature or gay porn or out gay people are clearly still frightened, but of what? Why do they feel the need to make it so clear they want nothing to do with it? Why do they call gay porn temptation if it isn’t tempting? Why do they worry that young people will see something gay and feel the urge to join “the gay lifestyle” if it left them cold and unmoved? Why so they call it a lifestyle choice if they never had to choose? The answer is really simple but somehow you can’t see it and you instead deny it strongly.
they come from in-groups, religious communities that shun lgbtq+ they dont want to lose access to that community, so they performatively "project:
“Most” is what scares me here.
Most spiders are indeed afraid of other spiders, checkmate theists.
rightfully so
Because most homophobes aren’t afraid of gay people. They hate them. It’s a very non descriptive labels fan is technically incorrect in most cases, though it DOES work as an insult to homophobes by making them seem like an absolute fucking wuss so I’m not in arms about that. In fact, I support it despite this fact. Fuck you, homophobes, you fucking dicks.
What a homophobe is afraid of is gay men treating them the way they treat women.
kinda wierd mental gymnastics on these people. but i think its more likely closeted gay homophobes, dont wanted to be OUTED being gay themselves, because they have ties to conservative/religious groups,families they dont want to be cut off from. people who often come out as gay when they are young in a coservative/religious community will often be disowned immediately by the family and the community. mOST dont consider people like thiel(probably bad example) to be openly gay, eventhough he knows hes gay, he does everything in his power to suppress any news about him in the media all the time.(its an ulterior motive of trying to gain favors with the conservative base/ GOP so they dont intefere with his companies, business pratices like Palintir. gawker/hulk lawsuit being one of them(the motivation behind him doing it is his business pratices). not to mention last year, he had Boy toy “defenestrated” in florida, and it was like on reddit for like half a day, before it was buried.
Hate is a form of fear.
Is it though?
I hate my neighbor’s Chihuahua because it barks all day everyday.
Absolutely no part of me fears a dog that weighs less than 4 lbs.
Do you stick your hands through the fence though?
It’s wood?
Solid wood, even at the front?
But this is taking around the question instead at answering it.
Do you stick your hand anywhere the nasty bitey snarly barking little thing, or do you steer clear?
True, kid. iPhones are terrifying.
Consider a usage other than “fear”. Think of something hydrophobic. Do you really think that an inanimate surface is afraid of water?
I don’t think it’s technically incorrect, I think folks have been taught an overly narrow usage of the suffix.
“Aversion” is the most accurate meaning I can think of. It could be aversion out of hate, fear, or something else.
Have you seen what waterfalls do to rock? You should be afraid of water!
Nooooo don’t invoke the wrath of the hydrohomies!
Fair point. I personally like that it’s insulting though so I like the wide definition more.
I have no desire to argue that :D Fuck those fucking fucks until they’re totally fucked.
The fact that someone decided to describe an inanimate object as scared of water doesn’t invalidate words with ‘phobic’
I’ve been married to an arachnophobe for 42 years and now I have questions.
Look for telltale signs in your marriage like:
- does it spin a web
- does it love you
- does it walk on the ceiling
If any of these are true you might be married to a human.
Do people ever run screaming from the room when he enters it?
Lost in Space?
The 1995 movie, yes.
Apparently, half of homophobes are gay. The other half have actual phobias about gay people.
So watch out, homophobes. Half of your friends secretly want to suck your dick.
“I think homophobes are just secretly scared that cocks are delicious.”
Ok, but ewww, imagine the other way around - seeing a spider doing normal spider-bro things, but it’s turns out it’s a human?
This guy?
No, this dude gets a pass.
Sounds like a secret spider curve ball to me
Most homophones are secretly homographs
