I dated a vegan for several years. Am a meat eater. There were no issues. The stuff she cooked was delicious, and the stuff I cooked she ate around if she had to. We respected our differences and it made us stronger
I’m inclined to be skeptical of there being no issues on her end. vegans have to tolerate a lot that we would prefer not to, but that doesn’t mean we like it.
Not all vegans are the same. I can only make choices for myself. My children have to come to their own conclusions as well.
I had a lot of issues with people because I refused to buy meat for my daughter. Why should I spend my money on something I believe is unethical to placate other people’s feelings about my daughter?
It sounds like a lot of people had issues with you for imposing your beliefs and limitations on a child who was too young to consent.
Malnutrition is a very real risk for someone who doesn’t consume meat. It’s very hard to eat enough protein, especially for a growing child. That makes malnutrition a very real risk- your child may not grow as strong or as tall or as healthy as they may have without your restrictions.
Well, I mean, first of all it is my job as a parent to “impose my beliefs and limitations” onto my child. We pretend it’s not, but it is in everything I tell my children.
And then
Malnutrition is a very real risk for someone who doesn’t consume meat
No, it’s not. It can be for vegans. But just not eating meat (aka vegetarian) has no malnutrition risk.
One might argue your job is to do what’s best for the child despite your beliefs.
And sure, the risks are lower for vegetarians but you’re still depriving a young child in your care of nutrition because of something you chose for yourself.
You seem to equate your diet with religion or some other deep rooted belief that you feel obligated to pass down. While the people who heard you were forcing this upon a child were thinking it’s more like choosing to smoke or drink heavily. Those two camps aren’t going to find common ground.
One might argue your job is to do what’s best for the child despite your beliefs.
That’s what I meant with pretend. What’s best boils down to my beliefs, there is no objective criteria.
the risks are lower for vegetarians
No, there are simply no risks in not eating meat. There are risks in eating only potatos, but there’s just as much in eating only bacon. The potential risks in vegetarian and carnivore diet come from not enough diversity. But take a “normal Western” diverse diet, strip out the meat, and you’re perfectly fine in all macro- and micronutrients.
I’m not OP of this subthread btw. Nobody ever came at me for my children’s diet. Which they honestly should, as we eat way to much pasta, but that’s what’s always accepted 😅
You seem to equate your diet with religion or some other deep rooted belief that you feel obligated to pass down.
If anything, passing down ethical beliefs about what is ok to consume and support with your money is more valid to pass down than 2000 year old fairy tales about who should be allowed to do what with their pee pee, not less.
Hmmm, no, it’s the same as eating meat. You pass it down to your children, yes? it’s the exact same, and it presents no health risks whatsoever. No animal products on the other hand (=veganism) has to be carefully controlled for protein and B12 intake. And then it also presents no risks. But it’s definitely more of a balance
IMO those people need to chill. I used to catch shit from my in laws for never feeding my kids meat, but they’re both healthy, strong and they surpass all of their growth and development milestones. Their pediatrician is more than happy with us excluding meat from their diet.
Can you fuck a kid up on a vegetarian or vegan diet? Of course if you don’t know what you’re doing and you feed them nothing but raw fruit or something. I’d argue it’s even easier to fuck them up on a standard American diet. Don’t take your kids to McDonald’s every other day and tell me I’m a shit parent for not feeding meat to mine. (Obviously this last point isn’t directed specifically at you, but at the attitude in general).
Ridiculously false. All dietary groups have risks of nutrient deficiencies that need to be taken into account. Every diet needs proper planning, or do you actually think the standard western dino nuggets, frozen fries, mac and cheese, and fast food burgers, that too many parents default to, doesn’t pose a nutrient deficiency risk? From the linked systematic review:
We conclude that there are dietary inadequacies in all dietary groups. In people following self-selected plant-based diets, especially vegan diets, intake, and status of certain nutrients is lower compared to meat-containing diets, with an increased risk of inadequacy for vitamin B12, vitamin D, EPA, DHA, calcium, iron (particularly in women), zinc and iodine. Of these nutrients, also meat-eaters were found to be at risk of inadequate vitamin D and calcium intake. On the other hand, people following plant-based diets, particularly vegan diets, had higher intakes of PUFA, ALA, fiber, folate, vitamin E and magnesium, which were found to be at risk of inadequacy among meat-eaters. Additionally, the intake of vitamin B1, B6 and C was considerably higher, especially in vegans.
Our results show the need for additional public health strategies to help consumers transitioning to a more nutritionally balanced and sustainable diet by education on diverse nutrient-dense plant foods, food fortification and possibly supplementation.
And here are a collection of statements from leading nutrition authorities from several countries. Just one for example:
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.
Of any nutrient that vegans might be at risk of deficiency of, protein is virtually never one of them. It is entirely feasible, easy even, to get more than enough protein on a plant-based diet - even for people who do strength training. From Christopher Gardner, who specializes on the subject:
Does it matter if you get your protein by consuming plants or meat?
Gardner: In terms of meeting your protein requirement, it really doesn’t. Protein contains the same 20 amino acids, regardless of where it comes from. It isn’t the amount of protein consumed as much as the proportions of amino acids, which make up proteins, that matter most. Meat and animal products have amino acid proportions that align perfectly with human needs. Plants aren’t aligned as perfectly, but they’re really close - so much so that it doesn’t matter if there isn’t any meat in your diet. You can still get the needed proportions of amino acids from plants. A lot of people think that plants don’t have enough total protein to meet human requirements. But the truth is vegetarians and vegans usually meet and exceed their protein requirement as long as they’re eating a reasonable variety of foods.
Now let’s talk about this idea of “imposing beliefs on your child.” In the first place, what a ridiculous notion, every parent imposes their beliefs on their children. What’s relevant is whose beliefs are better, which ones cause less harm. You speak of informed consent; then given how often children react with shock and sadness when they find out meat comes from animals, doesn’t it make sense to at least wait until they’re old enough to comprehend where their food comes from, and everything that happens to animals before feeding them products that come from animals? Would you feel comfortable showing your child a documentary like Dominion?
And going back to the point about health, I already established that plant-based diets are entirely adequate for all stages of life, including pregnancy and childhood. What about the typical western diets? Heart disease can start as early as the womb, and often does start as early as childhood. Plant-based diets generally don’t have that problem.
As long as a parent is taking basic steps to enure adequate nutrition, vegan diets for kids are a great choice with lots of benefits. It’s the typical western diet that is abusive.
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics…
this is no longer their position
Yeah, it basically still is.
EDIT:
Oops. Responded to wrong person. Sorry.
Some are able to respect the freedom of another human and do not force their choices or life on others. I know, vegans like that tend to be rare, but there are some good ones out there, not all are toxic about it.
So “good vegans” are the ones who shut up and respect your decisions to materially support the ongoing systematic atrocities being carried out against virtually every other sentient being on the planet?
Ahh, Spotted a vegan, because you blow things out of proportion and has twisted world view. No, Im not killing every other sentient thing. I’m not eating dogs, cats, or penguins. That being said, neither I’m out in the streets or forests killing animals, they’re all farm animals that did not come into this world naturally under natural circumstances. I never said eating something that was alive and conscious like fish is a moral thing to do, I said people should live their own lives like they want to without getting religious folks (like you) getting all up in arms about what other people choose.
What is the morally relevant difference between cats and dogs, and animals raised on a farm?
Why does your “right to live your own life” take priority over an animal’s right to not be forced into captivity, held in cruel conditions that make them sick from standing in their own feces constantly and destroy their bodies over time from extremely cramped conditions, be abused on a regular basis, malnourished, before being slaughtered by a low-wage worker (who is most likely a minor or immigrant, who will end up with ptsd from killing these animals every day), being denied the ability to live out their natural lifespan by many years?
What do you think would happen to the chickens if we released them all into the wild and never bothered to keep them alive? Why are your examples taken from the absolute worst farms that are getting closed down and the industry (at least where I live) is heavily regulated against that stuff?
Your question is outlandishly unrealistic and will never happen, as what is actually happening is that we as a society are seeing an increase in both adoption of plant-dominant diets, as well as ever increasing demand for animal products. The world will never go vegan over night, it is, and will continue to be a gradual process.
By contrast, when Biden was in office there were regulations in place to protect us from the spread of infectious diseases - particularly the h5n1 bird flu virus which at present can only spread from animal to human but not human to human. So far it has a 50% death rate for those infected, and it was estimated that if it did become a pandemic, it would result in 150 million deaths worldwide.
Part of those protections involved killing millions of chickens at a time whenever they would get infected with h5n1. So even if your unrealistic scenario somehow magically came to pass, it would still be less horrific than existing reality where they are slaughtered by the billions every year, because at least it would only be a one-time situation.
Three problems with your point about the worst being shut down. First, no they aren’t. The vast majority of animal products still come from factory farms. The worst is not some niche, it’s the default, because those are the only kinds of farming systems that are efficient enough to meet the extreme demands of consumers.
Second, so-called “happy farms” are a myth. For example, you could look at the investigative journalism of Joey Carbstrong for one example of abuses revealed at these kinds of farms. Every time even the most idyllic farms are actually investigated, abuse is revealed.
Third, even if the mythic pastoral happy farm were real, it still ignores the fundamental awfulness of treating sentient beings as if they are products. Of exploiting them for labor as if they don’t have their own lives they want to live. Of forcibly extracting their secretions, of keeping them in captivity, forcibly breeding them, and ultimately of cutting their lives far short of their natural lifespans. It is wrong to kill animals, and especially when it is utterly unnecessary.
Btw, you never answered my questions.
I’m vegetarian. My partner is not. We mostly buy and eat vegetarian, but occasionally they’d like some real chicken or beef. I’ll even cook it for them, no problem. I just don’t eat it. It’s really easy to be in this type of relationship actually.
This anecdote is irrelevant to the topic because you’re talking about merely cooking with different dietary preferences. Veganism is about respecting the lives, dignity, and autonomy of all animals, and therefore seeking to minimize harm done through personal actions and economic consumption. The only relation between the two topics is superficial. Carnism is absolutely a strain on relationships for vegans, and many would not consider partnering with people who gleefully consume the corpses of its victims.
“she ate around it” . Sounds frustrating. You must be packing…
And before people downvote, I didn’t mean violence. Wrong packing. Turn off your tv. Take a deep breath and dip your head in the gutters a little bit
I didn’t assume violence, but I was thinking “there could be numerous other reasons besides a good dicking to stay with someone even if you don’t share ideologies”.
True. But that reason was humorous. Nothing wrong with a little funny haha.
You must be packing…
The terrible secret about cooking with meat is that the flavors of the meat get into everything else on the plate.
So you eat around the steak, but you still get the intense savory flavor in the carrots and the spinach and the rice and the beans.
And then the dog learns to do increasingly adorable tricks for leftovers.
One of the most delicious food I’ve ever eaten was this meat stew my grandfather made with oxtail and tongue.
The meat was some of the most horrible stuff I’ve ever put in my mouth, but the vegetables and the stock was absolutely heavenly.True. That’s actually one of my favorite add-ons about juicy steaks. It’s gets into my mash potatoes and is like a savory gravy.
lmao, never heard it in that context before
But was preparing meat like…your profession?
And at the end… the crisis was not dietary? Or did it contribute?
we had some issues, food was not in the least one of them
Onward!
If he butchers the rich, it’s a match made in heaven.
And now together: Change your diet for the climate, eat the rich 👏👏
I wonder if you can eat enough Elon to get a second-hand ketamine high.
Some might just need to be put in the hazardous materials bin.
Only one way to find out
I have wondered how long it would take the poor to eat the rich. Surely there arent that many
True mhhm Mark Zuckerberg mhhm tasty 🤤🤤
Luigi? 😍
butches
I don’t think you’re verbifying that correctly…
omitted an “r,” fixed.
I wonder if he’s passed through Blaviken at any point
I’m not vegan by any stretch, but I also like any restaurant with a strong vegan option. A mostly plant-based diet is better on my tummy. I’ll eat a steak, but then I’ll eat vegetarian for the next two weeks while I digest it.
Lots of reasons to end up at the same statement :)
I guess you could say he… butchered that date
I wonder whether they decided to meat again after
Perhaps if he Gutted his career, they’d have a chance
I wouldnt put much steak into that thought.
meat related pun
I bet their date was offal.
It sounds like the steaks were too high.
Jack Sprat could eat no fat.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean.
I’ve seen couples make it work. The guy gets to learn all about these really delicious vegan curries. The woman finds out how much meat gets thrown in the trash and maybe doesn’t feel so bad when her husband rescues a prime rib or a sea bass filet or a dozen scallops the size of your fist from getting chucked in the dumpster at the end of the shift.
A lot of vegans see animals as deserving of the same dignity as pets or humans. With this mindset the “thrown away” meat is about as much of a waste as burying your grandma instead of eating her.
This is a false equivalence. We regularly “throw away” remains (by burying or incinerating them) that could have been donated to science or organs that could have been donated to patients in need. Eating discarded meat seems more morally equivalent to ensuring that grandma is an organ donor. It’s not as if discarded meat in a landfill or buried Grandma’s in a cemetery are contributing in any meaningful way back to the ecosystem.
She was dry as a bone. Maybe a broth
Is that a Shel Silverstein poem? Give real Mr Speds and Mr Spats vibes.
Opposites attract and all.
i worked in the meat department when i met my gf. shes vegetarian. i think she was more okay with it because her dog liked smelling my clothes after work😂
Like the word fuck. Cool can mean many things and express a full range of emotions.
She did say a good vegan option so it doesn’t seem to be a non-negotiable
I don’t see the issues here. Not every vegan is one for ethical reasons, and many of those who are vegan for ethical reasons only do it for themselves. The only vegans that I’ve seen that can’t comprehend the idea of respecting others exist exclusively online.
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