Yeah the world have yo be car first, that why jaywalking is illegal to free space for car.
I’ve been the car driver who nearly made jam out of the cyclist in the last panel. I’ve also been the cyclist hit by a car which was driving in the cycle lane.
Bad road users are everywhere and they use all sorts of transportation. Let’s stop with the division and generalisation.
one has a lot more power and uses a lot more space than the other
And we can still encourage both to obey the rules! Amazing!
rules aren’t neutral or grown out of the void. people with biases and maybe even ambitions create them for specific purposes
EDIT: To quote Anatole France: “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
Rules governing bike traffic are generally quite reasonable though. It’s not like the enlightened traffic planners in the Netherlands went “you know what, cyclists don’t have to obey red lights” for example. So I’m not seeing the biases you’re talking about, at least in this example.
Comparing running red lights to sleeping under bridges or steal for survival seems, at best, hyperbolic. In any case I don’t think that quote supports the view that the law is intentionally biased
The lights often automatically changes to cyclists priority in many places in the Netherlands, and often provide underpasses to avoid conflict points in the first place. It is not a comparable situation. Traffic laws and infrastructure in the USA, for instance, are incredibly biased in favor of cars, so their comment is absolutely relevant.
When I bike in the USA often the safest time for me to cross an intersection is unrelated to whether I have a green light, but more related to if anyone else at the intersection does. The safest time for me to go is when no one else at the light has a green light, not when I do.
Often they will, but what about the circumstances where they haven’t? We’re talking about a bike-first country which still does this.
My whole point here is that pro-cycling rule-makers will try to make cycling work in various ways, but those ways do NOT include letting cyclists ride across junctions when there is crossing vehicle traffic. The bias the person above is talking about is not about traffic light rules; it’s about missing other bits of bike infrastructure. And if that infrastructure is missing it does not make it sensible or reasonable to break other rules as some kind of counterbalance.
It is perfectly legal in many places in the world to run a red light on a motorcycle or bicycle, provided you wait a reasonable amount of time. So your example is complicated. Simply because the magnetic strips that detects cars don’t detect them. But if run a red light after waiting, I guarantee the average person will think I’m the same as the person that flys through the intersection without slowing down. In my experience the average car driver has no idea why bicycles make the decisions they make.
And it is perfectly reasonable to break rules, if breaking them is what is keeping me alive. I really could give a shit what the law is. I care about getting to work alive. And I will make decisions to that end first and the law second.
Your anecdotal evidence is noted.
I too came to “Comic Strips” for fair, sober, straight-laced sociology.
Who can forget the time a cyclist ran a red light and killed sixteen people?
The Telegraph and LBC are both right-wing propaganda mills.
Case in point:
In 2022, Hilda Griffiths, 81, died after Brian Fitzgerald, a Credit Suisse director and member of the Muswell Hill Peloton cycling club, collided with her while riding with other members at about 29mph in the 20mph zone.
Police could not prosecute Mr Fitzgerald because “there were no criminal Acts” which could be applied to cyclists who speed, the elderly lady’s inquest heard.
That’s pure horseshit.
Still lacking context here. Vision Zero says no one should get killed by vehicles.
That’s two; fourteen more to go!
ahhh going to the absurd. that’ll work. fuck. cars. fuck bikes who don’t follow the rules, too.
When did a car run a red light and kill sixteen people?
I’m not sure about running the red light, but there are cases where people have intentionally used cars to run people down in a mass shooting kind of style.
Fair but think about hitting and killing a cyclist who had run a stop sign or light. That doesn’t just go away. The person has to live with the trauma of killing another person potentially at no fault of their own.
I’m sure the parent whose kid or pet gets mowed down by a cyclist going full speed will appreciate that, hey at least it wasn’t more people who got hurt or killed!
Entitled assholes exist behind many modes of transportation. That cars can cause significantly more damage doesn’t make the others less dickish, like this guy:
(and yes, I drive AND cycle AND like to jog too, depending on what the task at- hand is).
That so many have come out screaming in the manner pretty much showcases the “rules for thee but not for me” attitude.
Give cyclists lanes, so they wouldn’t have to stand in a half metre gap between an 18-wheeler and a traffic barrier covered in mix of 19th century soot and souls of the damned. Then they’ll follow the rules, case in point: entire Denmark.
Live in denmark, can confirm.
I saw like hells angles waiting for the pedestrian light to go green before crossing, in the middle of the night on an empty street in denmark, so yes they seem to follow the rules there (it was a long time ago, but we don’t even did that in sweden, sweden where youd get hassled if you like didn’t have your not legally obliged bicycle helmet on).
In UK cities where there is extensive cycling and infrastructure, cyclists still run red lights quite often. As a cyclist I don’t obey every traffic law either.
On my old way to work there was a traffic light controlling the entrance to a car park from the main road, but entering traffic was so infrequent that it was always very tempting to dart across. On the same route, a cut across pavement for 25 metres saved negotiating a large roundabout or dismounting.
Neither place could really have had better infrastructure: the junction had poor visibility so you couldn’t see if a car was coming if you did chance it. Backing up the main road wouldn’t have been sensible so both of these mean it couldn’t have been a simple give-way. The section of pavement is narrow and on a bend, so to cycle it safely you must go slow enough to stop. Putting a cycle lane in there would have invited people to go too fast.
Car drivers love to criticize cyclists, but they don’t realize they’re the real aggressors in traffic. They both do most of the bad behaviors, and have the greater damage potential
All of my worst driving, walking and biking stories are vs a vehicle. I commute in various ways a lot, with tons more opportunities for walkers and other cyclists to be the problem. It is unquestionably drivers in 90% of cases. Most drivers don’t deserve to drive.
Also, their existence necessitates the use of traffic lights/roundabouts at every intersection. Bikes don’t need that kind of infrastructure.
Video from BicycleDutch. Mind you, the video is now 8 years old, and the the traffic just got more.
boomer ass take
That would be your mum’s standards.
Ah yes because every driver obeys every law all the time. It’s only the cyclists that break laws! No driver would ever consider speeding, rolling through a stop sign, or being aggressive!
Won’t someone think of the poor drivers!!
Your point is well taken, but whataboutism aside, EVERYONE should be obeying ALL the traffic laws. I cycle on public roads myself and I do see other cyclists not stopping at red lights. A bicycle IS a vehicle - it doesn’t come with pedestrian rights.
Or we can just keep escalating finger pointing and law-breaking until the traffic laws are meaningless everyone is dead.
I cycle thousands of miles each year, and I haven’t seen a cyclist run a red in years. Depends on where we’re riding, I guess.
So, why are you asking me to deescalate? Have you asked everyone else in this post and the author of the comic itself? Why pick me?
So, why are you asking me to deescalate? Have you asked everyone else in this post and the author of the comic itself? Why pick me?
can’t speak for the other commenter, but i will assume it was because of the whataboutism.
no one disputes that car drivers break a rules, but most of them at least know they are breaking the rules. cyclists really confidently act like the rules don’t exist (even that may depend on where you are).
few years back, some non-profit group advocating for bicycles in my city made a presentation for a media, where they showed a video how much faster a cyclist is going through some specific route during the working-day traffic jam than the car.
and then you saw the cyclist ignoring lights, driving on a sidewalk where he had no business to be and so on. he broke like a billion traffic rules during his 15 minute trip and they really acted like they didn’t even know that some rules applied to him.
Dude, come ride in my car sometime. Practically every driver out there thinks the rules don’t apply to them, either. I’d record them on a dash cam, but I don’t want to spend my life editing videos for YouTube. It’s a fucking jungle out there. As a practical matter, what’s the difference between not knowing the law (an assertion I reject) and ignoring it?
But car brains only get mad at cyclists for it. A car running a stop sign or rolling right on red is treated as business as usual. I see cops doing it.
I had to laugh at the links to deaths caused by cyclists. Two, world wide. Death from drivers doing stupid shit are so common, they don’t even bother writing articles about it. It’s not newsworthy. Cars do a lot more damage when they hit something.
And I say this as a cyclist that does follow the laws, aside from occasionally rolling a stop sign, when it’s safe (Idaho stop, but it’s not legal in my state).
But car brains only get mad at cyclists for it.
I’m going to assume that you’re so blinded by your prejudice against “carbrains” that you haven’t seen all the posts bemoaning speeding, passing in the wrong lane, riding people’s bumpers, “when a car swerves around you at mach 3 just to get stuck at the same light” to paraphrase a meme I saw on lemmy like last week, etc, and it’s everywhere not just lemmy.
You are probably just such a bikebrained chaincel that you haven’t noticed it, but it’s there.
As a practical matter, what’s the difference between not knowing the law (an assertion I reject) and ignoring it?
as a practical matter, there is no difference. but if one side is acting like a hypocrite pretending it is only the other party breaking the rules, it is worth pointing out.
But car brains only get mad at cyclists for it.
i am pretty sure people complain about other drivers all the time.
Death from drivers doing stupid shit are so common, they don’t even bother writing articles about it. It’s not newsworthy. Cars do a lot more damage when they hit something.
yes, this is true. but should that mean that cyclists should ignore the traffic rules, or what is the point?
but if one side is acting like a hypocrite pretending it is only the other party breaking the rules, it is worth pointing out.
On that I agree. Drivers regularly complain about cyclists as though they aren’t doing similar shit. Where are the comics about that?
But car brains only get mad at cyclists for it.
i am pretty sure people complain about other drivers all the time.
Show me the comics. Show me the online vitriol. Show me the death threats drivers get online every time a video is posted.
yes, this is true. but should that mean that cyclists should ignore the traffic rules, or what is the point?
The point is that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
They only get mad at cyclists because it’s an “other” group they can see.
sometimes one facepalm is just not enough.
Been in a college town recently? College kids are basically the cyclist in the comic.
They’re also the most dangerous drivers too…
Maybe we should just make everyone walk till the age of 25.
I haven’t noticed anything like that in college towns apart from late at night when it’s cold, there’s barely anyone around and the lights sometimes just don’t change for bicycles because they are too light. (The most common possibly illegal thing I’ve seen is bicycles overtaking cars stopped at lights to get to to the bike spots on a bicycle road where in some cases the cars aren’t even supposed to be.)
Meanwhile drivers almost all seem better but I am also aware that most
That’s fair… I didn’t mean to single you out. There were a LOT of posts, and I suppose the emphatic and sarcastic nature of yours drew my attention.
That said, I meant this as a general statement to all the commenters of this nature, and your comment is just where it happened to land. I don’t have any personal grudge.
Laws are a social agreement, not divine. Breaking stupid laws is not bad, and does not imply that all laws should be broken.
Stupid laws like “stop at a red light even if you’re wearing lycra in public.”
I live somewhere where half the traffic lights don’t have buttons and don’t respond to cyclists. So when there are no cars to trigger the light I just check if it’s safe and go. Meanwhile I have been nearly overrun by cars speeding through red because it was orange 3 seconds ago and see a car going >50kph in my 30kph street almost daily. A bicycle is not a vehicle (at least in france in collisions we are classified as pedestrians). We are way more vulnerable and less harmful and the roads are often not made for us, so we have to adapt our riding to be most safe. Sometimes that means taking a pedestrian green instead of a car green light because it is safer too.
Anyone who runs a red light is a stupid cunt.
Anecdotally, in my lived experience, there are more stupid cunts on bicycles than in cars.
That is all.
LOL I see way more cars running red lights and stop signs that I ever see bicycles doing it. And cars do a fuckton more damage when they hit something.
When a cyclist runs over a driver I’ll give a shit about bicycles running stop signs.
I don’t understand. You’re saying bikes should be allowed to run the red lights because when cars inevitable t-bone them they’ll die?
That seems pretty sick.
Also ignoring that while the impact of a car versus cyclist or heavily in favor of the car, a cyclist can still cause major harm to another person, pet or even another cyclist
Per capita? Really? Where do you live?
Cars run red lights all the time. Also, ignoring train infra, traffic lights are car/motorized traffic infrastructure. I’m not abiding by rules that only needed to be made up to stop feeble car brains from killing each other.
Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.
The point is that while cyclists often get pissed off about the lack of safe driving by cars, there are many that similarly seem to ignore the rules of the road as applied to them. That may result in a collision with a vehicle whose driver is driving with proper care - with the cyclist tending to be on the losing end -but also other cyclists, pedestrians, etc.
Getting creamed by a cyclist (or scooter, or skateboarder) going at speed down the sidewalk - or one blowing through an intersection against the lights - is not going to be a minor injury, and I’ve narrowly avoided having myself, my kids, and once my dog get taken out in this manner.
Lately it’s been the battery-powered speakers scooters that are the worst culprits, but the cyclists who often bitch the most about cars are often the ones who seem to ride the least safely around here.
So yeah, not every driver obeys every lease every time, but similarly ignoring laws and being an assist is a good way to increase your own odds of having a bad encounter with one of those drivers, or one of the many others who share the streets and sidewalks.
Safe driving != law abiding. There’s overlap, but they are not the same thing.
A driver buzzed me and my dog a few days ago. In my own neighborhood, with snow and ice on the roads, and roads narrowed by snow on the sides (we don’t have sidewalks). Probably going 40 mph in a 25 zone. Less than three feet away from me. Idiocy.
Where are the comics about those drivers? Why are you so willing to accept drivers doing illegal things, while getting so bent out of shape about cyclists going illegal things?
Cars are way more dangerous than any cyclist will ever be. I know if I had to pick a vehicle to run into me, it’ll be the cyclist every time.
Almost all bikers are drivers but not all drivers are bikers. I think pointing fingers elsewhere is less than helpful.
Then what is helpful? Not this fucking comic.
In my state they changed the rules where a cyclist can treat a stop sign like a yeild sign, and a stop light like a stop sign.
the reasoning is this will encourage cyclists to ride through neighborhoods rather than on busier main streets. cyclists need to maintain momentum when riding, and stopping every couple blocks for a stop sign is a huge momentum killer.
obviously cyclists run a much higher risk of injury in a traffic accident than a driver. also cyclists dont really have blind spots the way cars do. so generally if a cyclist runs a stop, they have already checked for oncoming traffic. yes, there are idiots out there both driving and cycling, but typically if you saw a cyclist run a stop sign, he knows youre there and went when it was safe.
That’s a great law. That’s basically how I use them (with lots of care, obviously).
Which state?
Idaho was the first to do this. Not sure which other states have followed suit, but i think i remember 1 or 2 doing so
Washington State made this change about 5 years ago.
Arkansas
yesss, maintaining momentum is an overlooked part of cycling. obviously don’t just ignore traffic rules completely and blow through intersections, but losing all momentum especially before a big hill SUCKS
then you have to reaccelerate to speed match the cars around you, honestly it feels unsafe on the faster streets.
Sounds like a cool law but necessarily very safe.
I assume you meant not necessarily. If so: it’s actually safer because it means you spend less time in the line of fire, plus additional options to avoid a potential collision.
This sort of attitude by cyclists is why we lack bike infrastructure in the US. Back in the 70s one weird asshole insisted that bikes be treated like cars and fought against it.
A brief explanation of just how bad that one guy was for the country.
deleted by creator
95 minute video is brief… what? you consume instagram? lol (/jk don’t @ me)
Fucking cyclists causing all the traffic and pollution. Get a car you assholes!
Build bicycle infrastructure.
It already exists even in burbs and is commonly referred to as a sidewalk.
No, that’s atrocious.
You don’t solve one endangerment by causing another.
The pavement is for pedestrians, the road is for cars. Between the road and the pavement you need to build a dedicated cycling path, at the expense of the road if necessary.
The Netherlands has shown how this infrastructure makes cities and towns safer and more livable.
There is no excuse.
somebody recently posted a video on one of the fuckcars communities about how using boogle maps in Netherlands was impractical. In the same video they were explaining how they removed traffic lights from no car zones.
traffic lights are necessary because of motorized traffic. When you’re cycling you’re moving less than a hundred kg at about 15kmh, not +1000kg at 50kmh or more
NotJustBikes did a video on that. Really interesting
yes, that was the video i was mentioning, thanks for the name
notJustBikes video ☞ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHdwHTteOw
Car Brain meme. Cyclists dont do this because they get splattered by a totally-not-semi-truck that can’t see 12ft in front of it the minute they move into the intersection.
Yeah we don’t ever see cyclists doing this, lol. I personally don’t even really care, since as you said they’re only risking themselves to save a minute or two. But it definitely happens. Just because it’s not 100% anti-car doesn’t mean we can’t agree with it…
In London, the Met Police fined 4,000 cyclists for failing to stop at lights in 2023, and the City of London Police issued over 900 fines in the first 9 months of their dedicated cycling unit.
So pigs made a unit specifically to hunt cyclists and you’re posting their numbers? This isn’t the flex you think it is.
stop breaking the law and the hunt will be pointless. “pigs” hate this one simple trick 😂
Swallow the boot harder. No wonder ya’ll fall for car lobby propaganda lmao
- “cyclists don’t break the rules”
- proof they do
- “police pigs!”
- “don’t break the law”
- “swallow the boot”
😂
I said they dont go out into intersections with no signal. No where did I say they break less. You can go ahead and try to quote that.
I said they dont go out into intersections with no signal.
the comic is about ignoring red light and yes, they do that.
Given they fined over 100 cyclists a month and the City of London is 1 square mile that’s essentially deserted two days of the week, it’s clear there was some issue.
Whats more, in many cases the cyclists were given the choice of a ten minute presentation on road safety, or the fine, and most chose the fine!
I dont live in London, so I can’t speak to the cycling infrastructure there. Proper cycling lanes could probably reduce whatever infractions are occuring. But I dont know the fines either, just that according to two posters there are indeed cycling police and they give out fines to cyclists.
100 cyclists a month doesn’t sound like a lot when there are thousands commuting through every day. Unless you give comparable numbers for both car commuters and cycling commuters and the number of fines this is saying nothing. For exampe, this week police in the netherlands were doing a traffic stop for cars and handed out 177 fines for 130 cars stopped because of multiple infractions per car, and this was one location one day.
A 2024 24-hr census gave 265,700 private cars, 139,400 cyclists, 70,000 commercial vehicles.
7am-7pm, cycles were the bigger group with 39% vs private cars at 22%. Most commuters to the City walk in from railway stations, with cyclists the next largest group. Hence the dedicated cycle unit.
So 0.002% of cyclists get a fine every day even though there is a dedicated unit watching them. That sounds like they are behaving quite well.
Yeah, this is a really common complaint from people who dont ride.
“Ooh i saw a cyclist just blaze past a stop sign without stopping!”
Like really? Most cyclists stop, but not all. Most cars stop but not all. Some cyclists are assholes.
I live and grew up in an extremely popular biking area, not once have a seen a cyclist obey traffic lights or stop signs, literally not a single time in my 35 years. I’ve seen a cyclist slam directly into a woman and her dog though because he didn’t stop at a stop sign.
How about we post some statistics instead of anecdotes? Surprise, motorists violate, maime, and murder multiple degrees more than cyclists.
Yeah no fuck, they’re cars
Bet you feel real good coming in with that zinger
I’m incredulous. I may as well tell you I’ve never seen a cyclist do anything wrong ever.
OP & sympathizers not comprehending the auto industry lobby. 🤦♀️
It’s not like the cars in my neighborhood are obeying traffic signals or roadway laws in general.
