Title text:
Now that I’ve finally gotten an electric vehicle, I’m never going back to an acoustic one.
Transcript:
Transcript will show once it’s been added to explainxkcd.com
Source: https://xkcd.com/3214/
You must log in or # to comment.
As an EV owner, I have recieved an interesting amount of reasons why people won’t buy them:
- The autonomy is not real (so far it’s been in my case and in any case, in italy, for how people drive, the declared consumptions are all fake because people here only drives by pressing the accelerator to the bottom)
- What if there’s a blackout in the whole city and you can’t charge your car? (The whole city, for a long time? I’d be worried about other stuff, but go on…)
- What if all the public plugs are occupied when you want to charge and you find yourself without battery to go to "ork tomorrow? (ALL OF THEM? At the same time? And why are you waiting to charge your car until it reaches 1% charge?)
- What if you come back from a long trip and have a 10% battery remaining and then you recieve an emergency call and have to leave immediately and you can’t because the 50-60km you have in your battery are not enough to reach your destination? (I can get to a quick charge station and get 200km in 15mins or so? The world is not ending? And if it’s THAT urgent then I should be calling an ambulance anyway, because I probably need one)
- I don’t want an automatic car! I love changing my gear! (Thank fuck I got rid of the clutch and the gears… never been happier when I drive!)
- Ah… but the speed, the torque of a thermic sports car… (Dude, you can’t afford a sports car, what the thell are you talking about? And even if I can’t either and I have a pretty average EV, you should just press the accelerator of an EV to the bottom and see for yourself)
- But it’s all about the feeling… the sound… (oh, I get it now… you want to “feel powerful” making everyone look at you and your noise making machine… yeah, I can’t compete there, and I don’t even want to anyway)
- But the electricity is made by burning fuel! (Most of it comes from green sources and, anyway, what the hell do you think your car run on? Water? Are you not very intelligent?)
- But the lithium comes from child labor!! (Says while casually using their iPhone, wearing clothes made in a third world country…)
After this, they usually proceed to make absurd claims like "I don’t care, I just don’t trust EVs.
Another point to add for 9, all the EV parts can be recycled. The metal body is recycled in to new cars and battery components are also recycled in to new batteries.
Relevant technology connections video
My reason for not buying an EV: it’s still a fucking car. Bit less shit, but still shit.
That should be Number 1 Reason to not buy an EV!
Agreed! EVs are certainly superior to ICE cars, but they’re a band aid instead of a solution.
Bring back public transit!
I mean, technically, an eBike is an Electric Vehicle, and not a fucking car. Otherwise, hard agree.
Well yeah if you can avoid it you shouldn’t buy a car, but if you have to buy a car you should buy electric
Fuck cars alright, but as long as I’m dependant on a car, my no.1 reason to get an EV is that I hate the oil industry even more. Fuck their oil and money and pollution and fuck their wars and politics.
- Blackout
Eh? What if there’s a gas supply issue? Can’t fuel up. I’ve experienced this after a natural disaster disrupted gas deliveries. Lines for blocks. Days to wait.
Not to mention what if someone does something silly like start a war and push the price of oil up. Solar does not increase in price after it’s made.
Doesn’t mean they can’t raise it :>
Solar does not increase in price after it’s made
YET. Elon’s working on it.
You can’t refuel a gas car without electricity anyway, the pumps are electric.
With point 2 you can now use a real life case. Last year the Iberian peninsula had a blackout that lasted more than a day. The combustion engine cars could not pump petrol because guess what: pumps need electricity.
My argument: When I can get a decent used EV for $5k, I’ll do it. Until then, I’ll just get a decent used ICE car for $5K.
I always thought this was one of the reasons for an EV incentive. Encourage more people like me to buy the expensive ones sooner to develop the market, guaranteed demand for manufacturers, but that also gets us faster to the point of cheap used EVs
Haven’t seen anything decent at that price. You’ll be fine as long as you just drive in a city and keep the temperature of your car reasonable. If not, you’ll need to spend at least twice as much to get something decent.
The prices coming down though. We’re actually pretty close tolerable prices right now.
My reason: the hybrid I have is still working fine and a new car and a new car won’t be in my budget for the next 10 years or so. Also iirc about 33% of the energy a typical car will ever use is spend on its production, so it’s better for the environment to use a car until it breaks down.
that’s completely fine. If your car works, you shouldn’t throw it away, that is wasteful.
Depends on the car. Waste of resources sure, but it can reduce emissions depending on the car
Unless their car is scrapped, this only results in another car being on the road.
New drivers will be new drivers regardless. It will most likely just end up as a stored car or a replaced car of another car
a replaced car of another car
Unless the ‘another’ car being replaced isn’t irreparably broken and just doesn’t suffice our MOT requirements, it’s probably ending in a 3rd world country and will remain in use there (probably instead a cheap light EV).
3.What if all the public plugs are occupied when you want to charge and you find yourself without battery to go to "ork tomorrow?
It sounds crazy, but I’d sit and wait the five minutes, much like I’ve done for pumps on occasion.
- I don’t want an automatic car! I love changing my gear!
This is me. I have a hybrid car and I miss the stick every time I drive it.
The problem is those days are gone, even without EVs. Between modern automatics more efficient and longer lasting, and cheap reliable CVTs (also more efficient), manual transmissions have no future. I also prefer driving a stick, and frequently complained about limited availability in the US, but technology has passed it by
cheap, reliable CVT
I may be out of date but Nissan’s CVTs self destruct very effectively and Subaru’s don’t handle the torque of the H6 so well. They’re still unpleasant to drive. Give me an EV every day.
My experience across three 2014+ Subarus with CVT has been flawless. Not the H6 though, all flat 4
That doesn’t affect how nice it is to drive though, not that I personally would want to touch a clutch pedal.
I’ve been there, I did manual -> hybrid -> electric.
I did miss the stick when I was driving an hybrid. In the hybrid it felt like was I had to give away some of the control I had on the car by not being able to change gear.
With the EV on the other hand it’s totally different, the car is way more responsive, there is power the moment I press the pedal and the concept of gear disappear.
I don’t miss driving with a stick when driving an EV
It’s like in a videogame. Power from the start.
- What if there’s a blackout in the whole city and you can’t charge your car?
They couldn’t refuel their ice car either or how do they think the fuel is made to flow “uphill” from the tank in the ground into their car.
For a lot of people it’s number 7 and I mean, that’s sad
1 is real though, and it can be a pain
There’s also the case where some areas are isolated and there’s no charger nearby and that can be a pain, and yea, that’s not a good spot to be in
Finally, if you can’t charge at home, you’re not really going to save on electricity price compared to fuel, so that’s not the best purchase, and it might be a pain to charge frequently outside if you have an cheap car that charges slowly
In the worst case scenario (very high KWh price), charging is almost the same price for the same distance. In the best case (at home) is 10x cheaper.
This might actually be true, I think I misremember my calculations but I know I compared it some time ago, and realized it was way cheaper at home, and comparing the prices I pay outside and those, it might very well be the case
2: I wonder what those people think a gas pump runs on?
If there is no electricity, then those won’t pump either.
Here’s a financial argument. The initial purchase price is too high for me, and the depreciation of electric vehicles is also very high. Overall cost of ownership per distance driven is lower if I drive a small gasoline-powered car.
I really don’t want it to be that way, but that’s the reality I have to deal with. Cheaper EVs are coming, but they still aren’t in my price range.
Update: Yes they are. Needed to update my data. Used EVs aren’t expensive trash any more. Some of them are actually quite reasonable.
Must be a Europe thing. I ran the numbers in America and avoiding gas cost (vs electric cost per mile) means the car paid for itself after 30k miles. And that’s ignoring that it needs no maintenance.
I thought European gas was expensive. Is the electricity over there also really pricey?
It depends where you live. We have cheap gas and I live in an area with one of the more expensive prices for electricity (and there are worse), but “filling up” at home is much cheaper than “filling up” my ice car.
However
- yes, we only have expensive EVs here. You can make up an extra $5k of purchase price with money saved on operations, but $10k or more is much harder
- trip chargers are already in a race for exploitation, profit seeking. Except for Tesla, prices are high, maintenance is low, and they compete for trapping customers more than attracting them
- since EVs became political we are currently off balance between supply and demand, so used cars are over supplied and lost much value. The quickly changing technology just makes it worse
so used cars are over supplied and lost much value
Perfect time to buy one then
Yes, I’ve argued that too. While there is the factor of fast changing technology, I think used EVs are a great buy right now.
I’m not in the market for an additional car although I’ve actually been tempted anyway …. I have two college kids sharing my old Subaru and it would prevent a lot of fights if I had another old vehicle for them
Then again my older kid just applied for a summer job with like 90 miles each way commute so may not be appropriate for limited or unknown range
This is Lemmy, no one can buy a used car. not possible.
car paid for itself after 30k miles.
I bought a used hybrid in 2020 when gas was cheap. It’s already 100% paid for itself.
People are morons and don’t do the 5 year math on what a vehicle costs to run.
Depreciation is a massive slice of the pie in all cars, but EVs are hit even harder. Buying a used EV is probably my best bet in about 5-10 years from now.
Specific cost of ownership (as in €/m) is what actually matters in the end, but most people ignore it. Usually people just compare gasoline and electricity prices and draw their conclusions based on that. That sort of analysis is not going to give you a very reliable picture.
Regardless, if I had the money to drive a BMW, buying an EV would be a simple decision. Who cares about the purchase price, ongoing expenses or depreciation when you have that much money. Since I’m not in that market segment, EVs aren’t really a viable option for me just yet.
TCO is even better for electric. Near zero maintenance. The depreciation is real, but only if you plan to sell it at it’s half life. If you plan to hold it a long time, depreciation evens out.
My EV is ten years old and cost $30k. It’s paid for itself twice over in just gas. More if I factor in the zero maintenance (not totally zero. I changed the tires a few times and had to replace a trunk component). The resale on it is about $8k lower than an equivalent ICE. But for me, the EV was a good deal.
I’d definitely recommend getting a used one though. I bought mine new, and that makes the numbers worse.
The depreciation is real
It’s not though, or it is currently. It wasn’t too many years ago that teslas kept their value more than any other car. I’d argue this is a temporary market condition that is only valid for decisions now but is not predictably valid
I lean the other way. I think Tesla valuation was artificially hyped and manipulated. The car’s valuation was luxury priced and tied to Elons personality. And that tanked. So I personally don’t think that was normal or ever coming back.
I think the current conditions are also abnormal, with EV becoming political and a horse running amok in the white house.
The normal depreciation is probably in the middle. But when are things ever normal anymore?
Yeah normal seems to have taken a vacation
In either case it’s all tied to supply and demand. When teslas kept their value it was because huge growth they couldn’t keep up with. Now their value used is horrible but a big part of that is demand dropped, so they can make too many.
And yes it is not a good thing that in both cases too much was driven by a personality.
Personally I’m annoyed because teslas still are the most compelling EV available to me, but they always had the shadow of over-hype and now they’re toxic
The way I see it, rich people can buy new cars. Everyone else who needs one should consider buying a used one instead. After a few years, depreciation isn’t quite so rapid any more, which makes TCO less of a burden.
Maintenance expenses do increase as the car ages, but as long as it isn’t like 25 years old, it’s not completely absurd. Currently, I’m looking to buy something that is about 5 years old, and then sell it when it begins to require frequent maintenance. That way, I should be able to avoid the two expensive extremes.
However, there’s another nasty twist. Cold environment will murder the NMC cells in no time. Not too long ago, I had to leave my car in a cold parking lot for a long time, and when I got back it was about -30 °C. Fortunately, I don’t need to abuse the engine this way any more than maybe twice every year. Oh, boy did it sound unhappy with that cold start, but it managed it anyway. If I had an EV, I would probably need to leave it at home, and take a bus for horribly timed trips like that.
Let’s say, about 6 times a year, I’ll have badly timed trips, with temperatures hovering around +5…-15 °C: That isn’t a complete disaster for EVs, but it’s still very bad for the cells. Some cars have a built-in heating system for the battery, so I guess that feature would see frequent use. When I’m eventually buying a use EV, having a battery heating system is going to be a completely non-negotiable feature.
temperatures hovering around +5…-15 °C
We’ve just come off a cold streak like this and I have to say it was no big deal.
Obviously I don’t know of there are long term effects on the battery but
- most/all EVs have active thermal management now so will maintain a healthy temperate while in use
- my decision point on technology maturity was when they started using heat pumps rather than resistive heat. That’s still too rare but makes a huge impact on cold weather range
The only good things about NMC cells is the energy density and the ability to pull a decent power during acceleration.
When it comes to temperatures, they are surprisingly picky. Too hot or cold, and they wear out quickly. If you push beyond that, you’ll lose range instantly. That’s why a heat pump is such a great thing to have.
Also, the state of charge matters to longevity. If you use the wrong percentages frequently, you’ll start losing capacity sooner or later. Even if you treat the battery perfectly, it’s still going to wear out like the tires do, but this thing costs as much as an engine.
I’m really looking forward to seeing all the other battery chemistries take their share of the market.
Depreciation is a massive slice of the pie in all cars, but EVs are hit even harder.
I think that’s a quirk of Tesla trying to preserve market share by aggressively cutting prices of their new models over the past 5 years, which naturally puts pressure on all used models on the road. I don’t think that can last.
If EV manufacturers are racing to compete on price, then the new EVs will get cheaper faster to where EVs are cheaper than ICE vehicles new. And if the EV manufacturers stop cutting prices, then that will alleviate that depreciation pressure.
I guess an update is in order. I was thinking of a calculation that is already several years old. I can’t even find it any more, but it had three options: small gasoline powered ICE car, hybrid and a fully electric one. Can’t remember if the latter one was Tesla, Toyota, BMW or something. Anyway, at that time, TCO of a small gasoline powered car was a bit lower that that of a hybrid or a fully electric one.
The final tipping point will be when the demand for EVs exceeds the demand for other car types. When that happens, depreciation of gasoline cars will increase dramatically, giving EVs a lower TCO. At the moment, charging infrastructure seems to be the bottle neck for a many people, so that’s why we haven’t gone past the tipping point yet. The real bottle neck here is actually the electrical grid, and upgrading that will take many years, if not decades. We could install more charging stations, but that would break the whole grid, so that’s why we have to limit their number in specific parts of the grid.
The price of a new EV is obviously going to decrease in the future, as every step along the chain ramps up production. Alternative battery chemistries play a role as well, now that LFP cars have finally entered the market. I’m also looking forward to seeing how Na-ion batteries affect the prices, but that’s still going to take a many years. I expect that in about 5-10 years the prices of cheap EVs will be a lot lower than they are today.
The economics are basically always shifting. Real world depreciation and maintenance don’t always follow the model projections, and neither do actual fuel/energy price projections. Electricity service has skyrocketed in a lot of places in recent years, while gasoline prices have remained pretty low, which obviously affects the accuracy of the calculations and modeling that were done 5 years ago. Not to mention, both gasoline and electric energy pricing vary heavily between place.
And, of course, the ever changing regulatory landscape might affect pricing and resale value, as well.
Plus the thing with cars is that most people aren’t buying the absolute bare minimum they can afford. People are willing to spend more on things: passenger and cargo space, performance, aesthetics, features/comfort, exterior dimensions that fit their own needs (for example, people who live in a city and want a car that can fit in tiny spaces), etc. For someone who is looking at total cost of ownership of something like mid tier or even luxury model, they should be comparing specific models they’d consider.
Ultimately, people need to do the calculation for their own specific situations. Someone in the market for a minivan in Detroit is gonna have different considerations than the person looking for a pickup truck in Dallas or a luxury sedan in Los Angeles or an economy car in Honolulu.
And as things shift, we’ll likely see more people make the decisions that are right for themselves in that particular moment. Including people who want to pay more for something not directly financially beneficial to themselves, whether it’s the driver who wants a manual transmission and the sounds of a revving internal combustion engine, or the person who would rather spend a little bit of extra money to do something more for climate change. Or the person who wants to boycott Elon Musk and will spend a bit more getting another non-Tesla EV.
At this point, my next car is almost certainly an EV, but I’m not going to prematurely sell my current car to make it happen.
Recently I realised that my EV data needed an update. Previously I thought that everything even remotely affordable was automatically Nissan Leaf level of useless. Well, the cheapest ones still are, but within the affordable range there are some cars that aren’t trash. I was surprised to find something I could realistically consider buying.
As long as I can figure out a way to charge it, my next car will be electric. Currently, I can’t charge at home, so there’s a bit of a problem…
Cheaper EVs are coming, but they still aren’t in my price range.
slightly used EVs are cheap as chips in NA. I don’t get people who whine about car prices then only buy new cars.
Did some quick market research and the numbers are in.
If your only drive in good weather in a city, you can get an EV for about 5 k€. If your country has snow and ice enabled, you’ll need to spend about 12 k€, but that’s still tolerable.
It’s not that expensive after all. Used to be pretty absurd a few years ago. Next, I’ll just need to figure out how to charge an EV. I’ll probably need to move to a newer building first.
The best argument against the blackout bit: Ukraine
Every single used budget EV was bought up by Ukrainians when the war started. Nissan Leafs, older Hyundai Ioniqs, Renault Zoes
Gas stations were bombed and the whole logistic chain for delivering gasoline and diesel was disrupted or prioritised for the military
But everyone had power at least for a part of the day, so they could charge EVs.
If it helps, my EV technically has a manual transmission. 100% of gear shifts are manual (it only has a single reduction gear).
I feel like some of those points are slightly more valid in rural areas (especially in the US, where a power pole being knocked over means that the power is out for hours) where the people making those points are more likely to have grown up. Then again if you are not in a rural point of the united states you are less likely to need a car.
If I lived in rural US where the power is not guaranteed I would install PV and use my car as a power backup.
That sounds rather expensive (if PV is photovoltaic). And I was not aware that cars were built to supply power like that.
Yeah, I meant photovoltaic with PV. At least in Europe it’s gotten really cheap.
There are mutiple ways to use the energy that is stored in electric cards. There’s “Vehicle to Load” (V2L) for plugging appliances directly into the car, “Vehicle to Home” (V2H) for connecting your home to the car and “Vehicle to grid” for connecting the car to the power grid and selling the stored energy.
“Vehicle to load” is also useful when going camping or when you need power when there’s no outlet near you. You just need a car that supports it and a small adapter.
In America it’s gotten cheap too. You can buy panels at harbor freight these days
From what I’ve been told by people I know irl (in Germany) that have a house it would have been over thousand euros just for the power connection.
To me who has neither a house nor a car, a solar panel sounds like a lot of money. Getting them used probably isn’t good either?
The power connectors for cars sound cool.
I wonder how many of those would not apply to hybrid cars.
Also, for 8: Making car go by burning fuel in a big optimised plant is likely more efficient than doing it in an engine that has to fit inside the car.
What if everyone woke up at about the same time and plugged in their toasters to make breakfast? ARMAGEDDON.
ICE cars grow in fields, that’s just science.
The EV battery will wear out and cost eleventy million dollars to replace, and we have to throw all the old batteries in rivers.
EVs catch fire! no way gasoline could catch fire!
and finally, what happens if you give up on life and want to end it all? Can’t die in a sealed garage with an EV running!
The major complaint I hear is that it takes forever to charge. It’s fine for commuting if you charge at home/work, but sounds a bit rough for road trips and the likes.
I often see people at the gas station’s plug just watching videos or reading a book outside, doesn’t make me want one. Hybrid though I could see myself buying.
Depending on the car and budget: It totally is.
At work we have a VW eUP.
Charges at a snail pace (¼ = 60-90ish km at 2-3h).Yes it’s fine most of the time but if we swap it between on-site visits one really has to wait or risk not coming home (and don’t get me started on the landmine of charging infrastructure).
German news about the whole infrastructure: https://youtu.be/GQ2hbLzfQ54
TLDW: Close a contract with one provider (e.g. your supplier at home), pay tripple the amount because that charging station is from another provider. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Most cars come with fast charge in DC. You can add a good amount of range in like 15-20 minutes. The ones not coming with fast charge are mostly city cars that don’t need it anyways.
It’s a different way of travelling. With an ICE I would pull into an ugly service station, buy fuel and shit food/drink, go to a disgusting toilet and then get straight back on the road. No smelling of flowers.
Now it’s the interesting, funky cafe’s/restaurants along the route that are adding fast chargers. I pull in there, have a nice coffee or meal, and then continue on my way.
It’s a much more pleasant way to do a trip. More chilled. More ‘touching the grass’.
To point 5: there are companies that sell electric crate motors, pre-configured to couple with your transmission’s bell housing. Hell, some of these companies sell the entire conversation kit, or will do the entire conversation for you. These conversions give you a completely offline electric car that keeps an older car from going to a junkyard, and reduces the materials needed for an updated car on the road. Also, if someone is concerned that a new electric car has the same carbon footprint as an internal combustion vehicle, recycled and reclaimed batteries are an incredible option.
If you’re going to do one of these conversions on a standard transmission car, you’ll probably want to pay some professionals anyway to tune it so that you don’t shred your clutch when you shift. I almost did this with my old '95 Explorer, but it had some suspension issues that I wasn’t willing to tackle at the same time. Plus, my neighbor told me that one of his friends had their car destroyed in a flood, but talked about how they always wanted a classic Explorer in exactly my color, so I gave it to her.
I didn’t see this one: I’ll never buy a car made after 2011 for privacy reasons. (As well as repairability)
It seems like my best bet is to retrofit an older petrol car. I’d spend a lot, probably even more than what a new car costs in cash, but I haven’t found a great ev swap plan yet, so hopefully in the future. I’ve saved a couple of totaled cars from the scrapyard so far.
I’d honestly probably spend upwards of $100k in cash on a privacy-first new EV with features I want, but apparently the car industry doesn’t want to make a product for me. (Not the slate truck)
My dream car is one of those UN spec Toyota Land Cruisers that can run on any dirt water that resembles diesel and can be repaired with a roll of duct tape, a large spanner and a hammer in the middle of a jungle.
They don’t meet any emissions requirements though so they’re fully illegal in any western countries 😅
My 2018 car has no privacy issues. Also, I DGAF about people knowing I drive to and from work. If you are really concerned about privacy, don’t use the internet.
Also, car insurance premiums increase just from the lack of privacy.
have a 10% battery remaining and then you recieve an emergency call and have to leave immediately
I actually have been in similar scenario, but one hour charging at home will get me to any such place (or I could have, you know, hit up a supercharger on my way)
The complaint may be that it’s an emergency but how often can you not even wait an hour? Especially since it’s half gone by the time I unload the car, use the rest room, etc
A car powered by gasoline? It’ll never take off. I mean, what will you do if it runs out of gas? Start a war in the middle east?
Also imagine the logistics! You would have to refine the oil, get it from places all over the world and distribute it to all the gas stations all over the country. With electric cars you can just tap the already existing power grid.
I seem to recall that back in the day there were electric cars before gasoline ones, and that was an argument at the time. Electricity was already becoming ubiquitous and putting up more wires was pretty easy compared to the logistics needed for gas production, transport, storage and dispensing. Gas won out due to the fact that it’s energy density was so much higher compared to batteries of the time… and probably a lot of lobbying by people invested in that stuff.
Gas won out due to the fact that it’s energy density was so much higher compared to batteries of the time
Gas won out because US found huge reserves of oil and it was 3 cents a barrel . Ford actually planned for his model T to run on ethanol, which could be made free on any farm, but Standard Oil made sure that would never happen.
Yeah 100 years ago the argument may have actually made sense.
Not to speak of the fact, that you cannot fill up at home or every other lamp post. You have to drive to designated stations to find gasoline. Ridiculous! What if the next station is too far to reach it, before you run out?
Even better…the oil is not sold on the free market of supply demand economics, they actually have price fixing cartels.
Plus, have you seen all the iron and other metals that have to be mined shipped, refined, shipped, and then made in to parts, shipped again, and then assembled, and finally shipped to the dealer for a single ICE car?
This was Jeremy Clarkson’s stupid argument against hybrids. Boomer rant.
I’ve heard it so many times, and it’s probably the dumbest thing I’ve heard about electric cars other than the guy who wanted to know how you would drive your EV at night if it charged from solar panels.
Luckily the best factorio players of the world ganged up and solved it
A car powered by gasoline? It’ll never take off.
Well, it’s a car, not a plane.
Crazy concept, fill you car with a huge tank of explosive and toxic liquid, and if you leave the car running on a closed garage the fumes will kill you! Get this, they have to drive all that liquid around in large tanker trucks.
Do they think we’re stupid?
For the blackout concerns: if you have solar panels, irrelevant, actually you’d be in a better place than with an ICE car. Also, if you have a garage, a fairly powerful generator cost peanuts compared to the price of a car, and some can run on gas cilinders and gasoline. Way safer to store gas cilinders than gas.
Batery longevity: I read an article that reviewed longevity, now that there is enough data, and most cars had better longevity, by far, than expected, except for some early models, like 1st Gen leafs. These had lower longevity, attributed to lower capacity batteries that had to be recharged a lot more. Higher capacities, coupled with way better charging circuits and logic, make for way more durable batteries.
Public charging costs is a valid concern.
Long drives. Decades ago I drove with my ex and my in laws from Madrid to Brussels in one go. 2 of us taking turns.I swore to never do more than 800 Km in one go. We did it in a largish car, pretty comfortable. Yeah, no.
Recyclability: most of ICE cars are recyclable, even much of the plastics, which are used to make floor mats, soundproofing, etc. Most of the car is metal, copper and aluminum being especially valuable.
Joy of driving. Once you experience the insane torque and acceleration of EVs, even the smaller ones, you won’t want a stick, unless you have a true sportscar.
I drive a 26 year old car, which I will keep until it has a catastrophic failure, love the thing. Not a major failure ever. Next will be an EV.
People conveniently forget that gas pumps are powered by electricity also. A person with solar panels and an ev is going to be in a much better situation in a large scale power outage than someone with a gas car.
I recall an ice storm where half the state was dark, and sure enough so were the gas stations. It was a fun conversation with my supervisor.
The majority of people who happen to be in cities aren’t helped by your setup.
Ok, so they are fucked either way. The gas pumps will still not work in cities either.
My next car is going to have physical fucking knobs and buttons.
I’m not buying another car with a tablet to control the media and the climate, regardless of power source. If I have to buy a 10 year old rust bucket I will. I’m not going back to the tablet until there’s literally no other option available.
I have a Kia e-niro which is pretty decent. It has a touchscreen for navigation, but the climate controls, radio etc are all physical
Recyclability: most of ICE cars are recyclable,
There’s no reason to expect this will be any different with EVs. There are already companies claiming better recycling rates, but they can’t scale up yet because there are not enough retired EVs
Most places with solar panels hooked up to the grid, you can’t use the power from them when the grid is down. Safety thing so you aren’t back feeding into the grid.
deleted by creator
It’s a valid argument if you don’t live near good charging infrastructure. I have an EV in an area with ample charging. But when we went to visit my in-laws who live in a more rural area, it was a big challenge. The only chargers around were so slow that it would take 24+ hours to charge the car. And if you run out, you can’t get someone to bring a can of gas.
In an urban area, I love the reduced maintenance and not getting gas. On a road trip with kids, I don’t love killing half an hour in a grocery store with my kids amassing armloads of candy faster than I can put it back.
EVs are great, but we can’t automatically dismiss any complaint a hesitant person has.
I have had some issues with my electric car in rural areas between FL and GA and I will say the charging infrastructure has gotten much better in the past year in that area. Especially since most cars can also use the Tesla chargers too if you need to.
My Tesla trip planner did something I never would have thought of but it works. It planned for at most 20 minutes at superchargers. It meant I never had to wait long at the cost of my next leg of the trip being a bit shorter. But I imagine it does optimize overall trip time, not just individual charging time. Remember batteries can’t charge linearly: there’s always a curve and charging always slows down as it gets full. Charging to 80% or similar takes advantage of the steep part of the curve to save you time
My biggest charging delay on trips is my own fault, always looking for a supercharger rather than destination chargers
- I’ve always given up pretty fast trying to find hotels with chargers
- when visiting family I never asked to plug in because I wasn’t sure whether they would make a big deal about it
24hour charge that’s like charging at under 3kw, that’s the rate at which a standard electrical outlet can charge in the UK, that’s the same power as my kettle. The V2L function on my EV can kick out more power than that.
In Canada, a level one charger is 1.4kw
In all seriousness, the transition of small devices away from AA/AAA batteries is very annoying. I always had batteries charged, now I have to constantly plug some junk in and wait?
I invested in some rechargeable NiMH AAs, and AAAs. Now sometimes I think i prefer some things with old school batteries just because of how convenient it is. Granted, that system wouldn’t work well for my headphones, or my phone. But seems just fine for the odd remote control, kitchen gadget or portable lamp.
Rechargeable AAs and AAAs have finally been perfected, I am kind of annoyed by things that have only internal batteries now, I don’t want them going to the landfill just because the cheap device died. Let me keep running the batteries for a decade in other shit.
The internal batteries often aren’t that hard to replace. If you can get the device open the batteries are standard sizes you can order and often just plug in. Except phones, phone manufacturing relies on pure evil
I have two sets of headphones, one older set that takes a AA and a new one that charges. I use the older ones constantly since when they die I just grab a NiMH AA out of the charger and pop it in, back in 10 seconds. New one…not so much
I bought a set for work that comes with 2 rechargeable lithium packs and an external charger so you can just swap as needed.
Sure but…we had that already
You clearly didn’t grow up before lithium batteries. Before lithium, batteries sucked and they sucked hard. You would spend a small fortune to buy 5 lb of batteries to put in your tape player, CD player, remote control toy, anything portable and then you would get between 5 minutes to an hour of total use time. Or, if it was you rarely used the gadget, or it was something like a remote control that were only on for incredibly short bursts as you push the button, you would leave the batteries in it until they went dead. But then you got the treat of opening it up to replace the batteries and finding that they leaked all over the inside and destroyed the device.
I have lost so many portable devices to leaking batteries that I can’t even begin calculate how much it’s cost me. Before smartphones, I had probably spent upwards of $1,000 ( in today’s money) in calculators alone. I don’t even work in some kind of math-type job or have a mathematics type degree.It never occurred to you to keep the nicad or NiMH battery bank full of charged batteries and swap them out?
You can’t even leave the lithium ion batteries plugged in when you aren’t using them for long periods, they swell. Which is bad.
I am not sure if you are making a joke or trying to troll me, but either way I laughed. So thanks for that.
The headsets I’ve seen which take AA batteries were heavy af.
What, no. Audio-technica from about 2016, they are normal weight.
Well guess I just haven’t seen 'em then.
I’m not saying light ones don’t exist. I just haven’t seen any.
These are the vehicles to have in the Apocalypse. Carry your own solar panels and charge it. No need to get fuel since gasoline only stays fresh for 6 months.
Personally I’d go with an electric bike since it needs significantly less time to charge given the same number of solar cells.
i had this idea only i planned to retire on the beach and eat fish. turned out to be no fun after a week camping in a jeep. Apocalypse in the basement. i wonder if there’s a siren like tornados
deleted by creator
I only drive acoustic cars. They sound even better
The only real question is: does it go “wooo wooo!” ?
Every once in a while I want the sound effects for my EV. Some of the most iconic “muscle” cars are just sound effect so it’s the same thing.
- if a mustang is all sound effect, my EV should be able to sound d the same
- if a Subaru has fake shift points with its CVT to help the car bros feel more comfortable, why can’t my EV
I want to come up to a red light in my EV and out-rev the corvette next to me
I want to be able to choose my own noise (being fully aware why that is a bad idea more broadly). Can you imagine driving through the grocery store parking lot making a TIE fighter sound?
I want Gregorian chants or Baroque mandolin music.
Solid choice.
The problem is I do think it’s a good idea (but retro “space invaders” sounds). There’s a good argument that cars moving walking speed near a pedestrian’s ought to make enough noise to ensure the pedestrians are aware of them. I’d rather be annoyed by the noisy eenvironment than run over
Once it’s intentional to do this then yes, why not pick your own?
To be clear, I do think they should make noise, yes please. Totally agreed. When they’re moving slowly enough that people can get out of the way (and the tire noise is a little less significant), they should be making an artificial sound.
Also, Space Invaders sounds would be an amazing choice; along the same lines, the Pac-Man “wakka-wakka-wakka” would be awesome, especially if you have a yellow car. Come to think of it, the Fozzie Bear “wokka wokka!” would be hilarious, too.
I just think allowing people to choose a sound that’s automatically blasted at loud volume from their car at any given time is something we’ve already had a lot of experience with, given that stereo systems have been standard on cars for decades now; and we can be certain that people can’t be trusted with it–especially when they themselves can’t hear it. There are absolutely people who will use that power to broadcast ads, or their own recorded voice shouting obscenities, or a high-pitched screech sound that harms people’s hearing.
Or, even worse, they’ll change the sound to silence or something super quiet. Maybe to be malicious, but probably more so just because they find it annoying in some niche situation (like in their garage or whatever).
Allowing people to choose from a certain subset of options, or having some sort of onboard algorithm try to detect whether the sound is an appropriate volume (and replacing it with a substitute if needed) might be a good compromise.
Too true
MachE has a sound effect. Frankly, it’s kinda sad.
If you sing-a-long in them you get better milage.
I will get an EV when the range/charge speed will allow me to make it 7 miles in 24 hours. And maybe if they’re small enough to fit in a passenger train.
I will buy one when it is cheap enough that I van afford. Until then, no car.
I got an EV last year and I woulld never go back. It’s just so much better.
You toss it out and get a new one of course!
“It said E for end, so I threw it out” - Patrick Star
I’m sure charging stations exist, but I’ve only ever seen one with my own eyes once (Brazil, major city)
In South Africa, I have seen plenty in the big cities, but nothing on the countryside.
Meanwhile in Europe I take off for road trips with my EV that has very mid range, fully trusting there’s gonna be a station when I need one, at first I used to plan the trips around charges but quickly figured out it’s not necessary. If you have a newer model with big range then it’s really a total non-issue. Sucks to hear Brazil isn’t there yet but I’m sure the infrastructure will catch up soon.
Drove home today from the countryside in Finland. A station every 30km at least.
Gas costs ~2€/litre.
I saw BYDs everywhere when I was there, but I don’t recall seeing stations, now that you mention it
Charge at home. I think most people do that. A quick unscientific stat looked up seems to indicate 80% charge at home in the US. Probably similar in other countries?
That’s something I’ve noticed in the US as well; gas stations are all over creation, easily visible, they have giant signs along interstates. I’m familiar with several long stretches of major highways and interstates, I could not take you to a charging station off the top of my head, nor do I think I could find one by highway signage like I can a gas station. I’m sure they exist but they haven’t called my attention to themselves.
As far as I can tell, car chargers are all over the place but often hidden away in the back of parking lots. And a lot of chargers require you to make an account or download an app.
Huge depreciation and not enough range. Probably wait till next battery revolution and it becomes cheaper than ICE
Depreciation is pointless if you plan to keep your car until it breaks. The range is mostly an excuse that people use to justify they don’t want an EV. Most cars today have at least 400km range and fast charge that’s quick enough to give you a good range from a 15 min stop. Nobody should be driving 1000km non-stop as they claim they’ll be (and which is the main reason they use to talk about the range).
Those cars are really expensive compared to entry level ones, which clearly don’t have fast charging nor big capacity
Big depreciation is definitely a risk. Having an option to sell gives more flexibility.
What car do u drive?
I recently got a byd atto 3. Really happy with it.
The depreciation I’ve seen, at least here, is not very different to the one I see in non-electric cars.
BYD is approved recently in my country. Hope this competition bring price down.
The problem is that what you actually do a roadtrip, (and you’re not charging at home on a normal “commute” day) is sit on your ass and do absolutely nothing for 45 to 90 minutes at a gas station in the middle of fucking nowhere, hoping no hick “jeds” see you hanging out at the Tesla charger and approach you to tell you that “yuu got a perddy mouf”.
Or just… rent a car?
If an EV supports all of my travel/commuting needs except one or two road trips per year, I’d rather just spend $65/day renting an ICE. The idea that you need to solve every problem with one privately-owned vehicle is part of why there’s so many idiots using F-150s for daily commutes.
That’s not unreasonable but I’m in a mood today so Get the heck out of here with your REASONABLE ARGUMENTS! :)
You seem to have last looked at EVs in 2015. At 350kW, it takes about 7 minutes to charge.
7 MINUTES?! 7 minutes. To full. FROM EMPTY?!* 7. minutes.*
I don’t believe you. The last video I saw about road tripping with an EV was last year- this one.
Not to full, you never charge to full on a fast charger… You charge enough to continue with your trip, which, yes, takes about 10-15 minutes in my real-world experience. I’ve also timed my fueling stops in my gas car, and they also take at least 10 minutes if I have to pee, grab some coffee, etc.
So I’m not at all opposed to electric cars, but I’m on the old side and what I’m not “for” is spending time charging enough, planning my next charging stop, rather than “filling up” and “there’s one on any exit, whenever I see fuel is low again”.
Maybe it will reach that point some day, but if I want to go sightseeing or go to somewhere interesting, I don’t want the whole trip being highly stressfull stops of “OK where do we plan to stop next and for how long”.
At that point I’d much rather take a train, and yes I know how insulting that is considering it would be AmTrak here in the united states of late stage capitalism.
You misunderstand. The roadtrip planning, at least in my EV, is all handled by the car itself. I just punch in my destination and go. It figures out where I need to stop to charge, for how long, etc. When I’m stopped charging, the “time remaining until full enough” is prominently displayed in the car itself as well as in the app, and I get notified (in the car and in the app) that my car is ready to continue. All that time I also have a (very accurate) estimate of how much charge I’ll have remaining once I reach the next stop.
There’s no guesswork, the car figures it out on its own, and I can tweak it however I want.
Also, the actual experience refueling is horrible compared to charging: When fueling I have to stand outside in the cold, breathing noxious fumes while being blasted with loud adverts from the machine… Then I get inside to pay, and if I want to grab a snack, coffee or go to the bathroom, I know that I’m not making progress towards my destination during that time so I’m kind of in a hurry.
Charging, you just park, plug, and let the car do its thing. You know you have 10 minutes to kill anyway, so you do the same things knowing that your car is doing something productive in the meantime. The vast majority of the time, the car is done before me anyway. It’s just a lot more relaxing honestly.
But all this is something I do what, at most once a month with my car? Day-to-day is done with home charging, where I get home, plug in, and the car is full the next time I need it. No more stressing about running late but finding out you need to stop to refuel, etc.
All in all, I find my EV experience to be WAY less stressful / annoying than my gas car. Just yesterday, we did a small family trip about 2 hours away with the gas car (the EV doesn’t fit the whole family sadly), and on the way back we found out gas prices had jumped 15¢ / liter during the day, thanks to Trump’s war… With an EV the price stays a lot more stable over time.
So- genuine question here, not baiting. So assuming your 4G/etc (telemetry soaked) connection is working, how often would you wind up stopping to charge “up another X percent” along the way? It sounds like it would be having you stop more often than every few hundred miles?
The home charging scenario is great, near perfect experience FOR SURE, but there are cases where it’s not possible, like renters.
I kinda doubt the genuineness of the question given the comment about telemetry… I’ll be the first to admit that these things are a privacy nightmare, but that’s a problem with ALL modern cars, not just EVs. It just so happens that most EVs are modern cars, but they’re not necessarily worse than your random off-the-shelf 2026 Nissan Rogue.
Still, genuine answer: Haven’t done that many roadtrips where I’ve needed to charge more than once, actually. But my car can easily leave now and go 2-3 hours at highway speed without stopping. Make that 3-4 hours if I set it to charge at 100% the night before (in case of a planned roadtrip), as I usually only charge it to 80% to preserve battery life. Not sure how many miles that is as I’m to lazy to do the conversion, but this is why I use “hours at highway speed” as a metric.
A good resource to look at the various scenarios specific to your situation / area would be ABRP.
Unfortunately that’s a Tesla ad. But I was wrong. Looks like at least some of the 350kW charging cars take about 18 minutes. Slower than getting gas, but not much worse than a pee and sandwich break every two hours or so.
A lot of EVs are currently advertising charge times of 30 minutes from 15% to 90%. Furthermore:
If theres a line for the charging station, everybody is gonna take 30 minutes, so you could realize you have a 2 hour wait.
If the battery is hot, it can take longer. If you just got off the highway, it could add another 15-30 minutes while the battery cools off.
You don’t charge EVs from 0 to 100% on roadtrips. It is inefficient.
Charging from 20% to 80% only takes 15-30 min.
EVs as they are now, are only useful for rich people, for two reasons.
- Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max, meanwhile poor people drive cars that are at least 20 years old, since replacing the batteries costs usually as much as the whole car, there wont be any of those new electric cars on the road in 20 years.
Electric cars are essentially disposable, where they are expected to be destroyed or “recycled” instead of repaired.
Ofc rich people buy new cars every few years anyway, so it’s not an issue for them.
- There’s not enough infrastructure for charging electric cars, having to drive extra into a charging station which is usually being used and wait until said charger is free is a too much of an inconvenience for people who already don’t have any free time at hand.
A gasoline car can be fueled in 30 seconds + 2 minutes to pay, and there’s usually a line at most service stations. Even if there’s mass adoption and all gas stations were converted into EV chargers, even if it only takes 10 minutes to charge an EV, that is 12 minutes per person, it would still amplify the queue to the point where it would be impossible to get anything charged.
Ofc rich people can just charge in their backyard or garage at night, so not an issue for them either.
I’m not saying that EVs are bad, but there has to be serious investment in infrastructure and batteries need to be cheaper and cheaply REPLACEABLE in order for the poor to be able to adopt EVs
Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max,
Real world studies are showing they last about an average of 12-15 years on average, and every manufacturer has a warranty for at least 8 years, with many up to 10.
A gasoline car can be fueled in 30 seconds
The typical passenger gas station pump flows at 7.9 gallons per minute. For most passenger cars and trucks, with tanks between 15 and 35 gallons, that’s about 2-5 minutes of pumping.
A typical level 3 charger will take a battery from 10% to 80% in about 25 minutes. And chargers can be in places where gasoline pumps can’t be, like ordinary parking lots and garages. So the dual purpose parking where you can charge the car while you shop at the grocery store or work out at the gym or sleep overnight at home is just a completely different paradigm from what we’re used to.
The average car lasts about 12 years, by the way. EVs last basically as long as ICE vehicles. Which also makes sense, because it doesn’t have to mix the fluids that lubricate and cool with combustion residue and foul up the engine that way.
So your data is out of date, and those fears that were commonly cited in 2015 have pretty much proven to be false for the technology that was around in 2015. Now, in 2026, there’s been even more advances in managing battery/charging health and chemistry, with more of an infrastructure for maintenance, repair, and charging.
Real world studies are showing they last about an average of 12-15 years on average
And that’s a problem for ppl who buy 20 year old cars.
A typical level 3 charger will take a battery from 10% to 80% in about 25 minutes. And chargers can be in places where gasoline pumps can’t be, like ordinary parking lots and garages. So the dual purpose parking where you can charge the car while you shop at the grocery store or work out at the gym or sleep overnight at home is just a completely different paradigm from what we’re used to.
Yes, you are right, I take back my “converting gas pumps into EV chargers”, that situation can be solved by having more charge points in other places, unfortunately, as things are know, I know from an EV drive himself that it’s almost impossible to find a free charger at least where I live.
The average car lasts about 12 years, by the way. EVs last basically as long as ICE vehicles
I guess that greatly depends on where you live, since you said “gallons” before I’m assuming US, at least here few people I know can afford a 12 years old car.
So if you’re in a country where it’s economically feasible to continue maintaining cars beyond 15 years, why wouldn’t you think that the much cheaper electric cars wouldn’t dominate the market even more?
Compared to the U.S.'s low adoption rates, EVs sell at higher rates in certain rich countries like Norway and Denmark, middle income countries like China and Turkiye, and poor countries like Estonia and Nepal. The cheapest EVs, globally, are cheaper than the cheapest ICE vehicles.
And that’s a problem for ppl who buy 20 year old cars.
The cost of maintaining a car to last 20 years can be applied to EVs and ICE cars alike. I suspect that EVs will be easier to maintain to those ages. In the U.S., that doesn’t really happen in large part because our labor and parts network is expensive enough that buying new is comparably cheaper than repairing, past the 15 year mark, for most vehicles. EVs don’t actually change the equation any.
So how are mechanics going to solve the battery problem? Maybe replace dead batteries with used but still somewhat working batteries? But then after 20 years all batteries for that same model will be dead.
Or are you trying to say that poor people will be able to buy newer cars than they do now, because rich people will dump them sooner?
Maybe replace dead batteries with used but still somewhat working batteries?
Why not replace them with new batteries?
Also, you’re not engaging with the fact that the typical ICE car lasts an average of 12 years. If there’s a batch of survivors that lasts much longer than average and are accessible to the people of your country, what makes you think the same won’t be true of EVs when they get old enough?
Also, you’re not engaging with the fact that the typical ICE car lasts an average of 12 years.
I will be honest, it’s not like I’m doubting your data, but that number is hard to swallow, a 12 year old car is basically new. Even if people in America throw away new cars just because they need some minor repair that doesn’t mean the car can’t survive 20 years more with proper maintenance.
Why not replace them with new batteries?
In modern EVs, batteries are structural elements too which cannot be replaced (but the ‘peripheral’ non-structural batteries can).
The batteries won’t be dead immediately. These studies saying they last so and so long define “lasting” by still having more than 80% of the initial capacity (iirc). So for people who usually don’t drive more than let’s say 100 km at once most EV will still be totally fine.
that’s the average, some will last longer than that
Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max
Most manufactures offer 8 or 10 year warranties. Batteries are expected to last the life of the car (10-20 years). This is similar to the expected lifespan of the engine, because it’s designed that way rather than being a fundamental limitation of the technology, same as contemporary car engine lifespans.
Electric cars are essentially disposable
All cars are expected to be recycled when major components are damaged or worn out.
Ofc rich people can just charge in their backyard or garage at night, so not an issue for them either.
Charging in your driveway works fine, and you might be overstating the percentage of people who live in apartments and also have a car. Maybe true in your locality but not mine.
I’m not saying that EVs are bad, but there has to be serious investment in infrastructure and batteries need to be cheaper and cheaply REPLACEABLE in order for the poor to be able to adopt EVs
Replaceable batteries make the car cost more, not less, same as engineering in easily swappable engines (some tanks have this, no cars do). The big thing you’re not getting is that POOR PEOPLE DON’T BUY NEW CARS. The only thing required for adoption of EVs by poor people is a healthy supply of used EVs.
Batteries are expected to last the life of the car (10-20 years)
But that’s the problem, because the manufacturer always expects the car to last less than what it really does, poor people buy cars long after their “expected lifetime” has passed, (that is, when the previously owner considers the car to be too unreliable him), that’s when the person who is scrapping by, buys the unreliable car because it’s the only he can afford, now, repairing an old car as it keeps breaking down is expensive, but it’s still doable and much cheaper than buying a new car. But if the batteries are dead and the price of batteries cost as much as they seem to cost, then there’s no way to fix the car.
Also I’m septic if an electric car battery can last 20 years at all, there isn’t any good data on it, but if it uses the same technology as laptops Lithin-ion I don’t see it lasting much more than 10. From my experience Lithin-ion don’t lose capacity in a linear fashion, it’s more like a cliff, one day the laptop lasts an our, next day lasts 10 minutes.
All cars are expected to be recycled when major components are damaged or worn out.
You see, that’s the problem, it’s “Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle”, recycling should be the last option when the object really is at it’s limit and can’t function (and be fixed no more), if things are build to be durable then there’s no need to recycle them.
Charging in your driveway works fine
Would be fun to test how long I could set a power cord down from my apartment window into the driveway without it being stolen or vandalized. Or maybe the police would find some law to fine me for that.
Replaceable batteries make the car cost more, not less, same as engineering in easily swappable engines
Yes, but the lifetime of the car will be much longer, so when you equate the price of the vehicle to it’s useful lifetime it actually becomes cheaper.
The big thing you’re not getting is that POOR PEOPLE DON’T BUY NEW CARS
Yes, and that’s exactly what I’m saying, if poor people don’t buy new cars, and there are no old electric cars in the market because their batteries expired and the cars got recycled instead of repaired.
but if it uses the same technology as laptops Lithin-ion I don’t see it lasting much more than 10.
That’s what you’re saying but it’s not born out by what’s being seen with used EVs (other than the early Leafs). Used cars are perfectly usable after 10 years. The main problem with the used market is that there just weren’t that many EVs on the road 10 years ago, less than 1% of the market.
Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max
Source? I thought we don’t really have sufficient real live data, but it seems like the batteries last longer than was expected. And it’s not that they completely break, it’s just that they lose capacity meaning range.
that is 12 minutes per person, it would still amplify the queue to the point where it would be impossible to get anything charged.
According to this estimate you simply would need 5-6 times more charging points than fueling points, which is already the case for the majority of gas stations at highways where I live.
So, I’m going off of talking to mechanics and a lot of YouTube. But theres a few ways to slice it.
Most batteries aren’t experiencing total failures, which was more common on your electric cars of 15+ years ago (think Nissan leaf). But they lose capacity as they are used. 25% after 5 years is common. After 10 years it could be 50%. An EV advertised with 300 miles of range only really gets 250 from a full charge when it’s really cold out, by the time it’s a 10 year old car that could be anywhere from 90-140 miles depending on how the battery is holding up. And it still takes just as long to charge to 100%.
When a car loses this much performance, most people would say it “needs” a new battery. Not really sure how long cars manufactured 2020 and later are going to last before a complete failure on average, it might be 15-20 years. But even after the first couple years they are losing performance.
This is why EVs fetch extremely low prices used, and a lot of people recommend leasing rather than buying them. Because you can’t make or fix a battery at home, and the price of a new battery is $10k-$20k on a car that, probably, is starting to get other issues and has little or no service availability (since most owners are junking them).
So currently, a $30k Corolla is going to be worth far more 5 years after purchase than an $80k whatever EV you care to name.
Most people live in apartments or rent. Plug in hybrids sound more feasible for now until the infrastructure is better. I know I can’t afford a charger and upgrade to my house to get an electric car. I’m intrigue by the Hyundai ionic5 n, but where do I park it to charge? I’ve driven many electric cars and even the low power ones feel nice to drive because of the torque. The audi etron and Hyundai ionics are awesome.
What we need is a magazine/renting system (e.g. drive battery empty, replace it at a charging station)
Afaik some e-roller in asian countries already have this for the small motorcycles.
Now make it motorized/automated/easy to do and boom: New gas station.Nio is doing this for years already with cars: https://www.nio.com/news/20260206001
(It takes 3 minutes)
The main issue with your second arguments and the anti EV sentiment in general is that most people seem to think you have to fill them up like gasolin cars.
Everyone that lives in a more rural area can simply plug them in at home and charge overnight. And I don’t mean with a fancy private chraging point, a simple 3 phase AC plug will fill your car to 100% in about 8 hours. Even if you only have access to a 230V AC socket, you can still get ~4% per hour, which nets you 50% charge over night, in other words about 150-200km. The power grid doesn’t care much since the average load in the night is usually a lot lower.
For more urban areas there is a need for more infrastructure, yes, but even then you don’t really need superchargers. 11/22kW chargers in public and private parking lots can be built in bulk, are a lot cheaper and are enough for 90% of what the people need.
The only people that need superchargers are:
-
People that live and work in high population cities. Most of what they drive with their cars could have been done with public transport if they live and work in the same city, so not too much sympathy from me here. As for grocery shopping and the like, a huge array of 11kW chargers at the supermarket would solve that problem since most people in that area would need to charge like once a week.
-
People that drive 200+km a day. Sure it happens, probably more than I think, but in overall numbers they only constitute a few percent of the cars on the road at any given time.
People that live and work in high population cities. Most of what they drive with their cars could have been done with public transport if they live and work in the same city, so not too much sympathy from me here.
You’re assuming that all high population cities have an efficient public traffic system, unfortunately that couldn’t be forwarder from truth, at least in my city, while for some places I can take the metro and it’s actually faster than driving, other places are dependent on very old busses that only show up once per hour and
sometimesmore often than not, don’t show up at all.
-
Batteries are about 30% of the price of a full car, which is a lot, but significantly less than 100%. You definitely have an incentive to replace them instead of the full car.
To replace most of them, you need to unscrew the 4 big bolts that hold it, remove the dead one, put a new one in and rescrew the 4 big bolts. This is made difficult by the 700kg that the batteries weigh, but is doable if you have the equipment to lift and move heavy things.
Your issue is Tesla. Tesla has an absurd and dangerous battery design to make their models as flat as possible. I will not list the reasons why Tesla should not be used as a reference
I am not sure why you are stating that only the rich can charge at home, it is much cheaper than charging at a station. Fast chargers do sometimes have a queue issue, but it’s not as bad as it would be at a gas station with three lanes. They’re not converting gas stations to charging stations, they’re adding chargers to parkings that can charge dozens of car in parallel. And you won’t use them often because it’s so pricey.
Plugable hybrids are a good compromise, when people remember to actually plug them in and run on electric when they don’t need to travel long distances.
They also have the worst of both worlds shoved together
They also have the best of both worlds shoved together, when used in an ideal general case situation. Zero emissions for urban use, emissions limited only on the very occasional when needed, and even then if it has enough stops to call EVs viable, you are going to get a significant reduction in emissions if you plug along the way.
Range extender hybrids are the goat
The combustion engine can always run at optimal rpm for torque and the drivetrain is 100% electric
A LOT simpler to construct too, it’s basically an EV with a built in generator
They’d be the best compromise for me. I usually drive short distances in the city, but maybe once or twice a year I want to do the 800km journey back to my home city in the next province. Train travel isn’t an option.
I have a similar situation and I just rent a car for those twice a year trips 🤷 Still cheaper than paying for gas
Literally impossible, given you have to pay for the gas of those rentals plus however long you keep them until you get back.
I pay 0€ for gas all year long, electricity is currently 0,0187€/kWh
The money I save from that equation easily pays for a rental twice a year.
You’d be paying even less with a plug-in electric hybrid.
How? Mind you that gasoline is 2€/litre here and electricity costs next to nothing.
I’d rather not have to deal with a petrol/diesel engine than go long distances, but saying that is a bit of a non issue to go a long distance in an EV in Europe.
That’s called privilege.
